This is a quick draft of a dragon deck I have always wanted to build. I recently decided to build more EDH decks that are fun for me and appeal to my tastes. So of course, I had to build a Dragon deck. I love dragons. They're my favorite critters, next to dinosaurs. I've always loved the idea of dragons heading the helm of an army (hence my love for Teneb, the Harvester), but I never had a deck that was filled to the brim with dragons. So I decided to build one. While I am building this deck pretty casually, I would like it to hold its own against some of the more tuned decks in my meta. I am still considering cards, such as Aggravated Assault and company for infinite combat steps. Since I'm very new to playing "big dudes, go", any advice or tips are always appreciated.
Well folks, its that time again, for a set review. However, I am only going to go over a few cards and not the entire set. As always, if you see a card you really like but it isn't on this list, I would be more than happy to discuss it. But until then, these are my initial observations:
Emeria Shepherd: NOT ANGEL, shepherd. Shepherd seems like a monster of a house, until you realize she gets worse the more colors you play. We run just about 8 plains total, which means we won't trigger her prime ability all that often. In this deck, she reads "Landfall, return target non-land permanent to your hand." It isn't bad, but this next guy maybe better.
Greenwarden of Murasa: Double Eternal Witness is awesome. I'm not sure yet how well she fits in (testing needs to be done), but with the ability to recur her again and again, she maybe pure value town. Worth testing.
Gideon, Ally of Zendikar: This guy is worth talking about because he makes Teneb a turn three clock for the rest of the game. This means that you don't need any set up with Teneb, just cast him and swing. I really like that about him, as well as his ability to give you dudes. But I'm not sure if a four mana untouchable anthem is worth slotting into this deck. Still, it is worth a shot.
Drana, Liberator of Malakir: She is super fine I like her ability to pump all of your creatures, making your hatebears into monsters. Note that first strike means she puts counters on your creatures before they deal damage. It may make combat math a head ache, but I like it. Worth testing.
Ob Nixilis Reignited: Ob puts in work, drawing your cards like Phyrexian Arena and Murdering blockers. The thing is, he does a lot of things, but none of them well. I don't think he is focused enough. In addition, we have to consider our five mana planeswalker slot, taken up by Liliana Vess currently. Lily can get us either Arena or any kind of removal. So there is that to consider.
Undergrowth Champion: There has been a lot of hype around this guy... but dies to Doom Blade? I hate that argument, but its true. Very little removal is damage oriented in EDH, so this guy may get big, but not insane. I'd rather run Forgotten Ancient.
Shambling Vent: I'm going to test this bad boy out, but he seems a little lack luster. I'm waiting for the B/G manland to make a defined decision, so stay tuned.
Canopy Vista: I like these tango lands, just wish we had them for out other two color pairs. For now, Vista can be fetched and grabbed with Wood Elves so it is worth the slot.
The Eldrazi: Real quick, lets talk about these guys as a unit. While they're great for some decks, they don't sync very well with Teneb. Mainly, their synergy for other Eldrazi and colorless creatures (which we don't have either). Because of this, I don't think the Eldrazi are a good fit. The two I want to talk about are Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger and Void Winnower. Ulamog is a house in of himself, and can be reanimated this time around. However, he must be cast to get his exile triggers. This is a bit of a issue because he is now less attractive to reanimate. Also, being indestructible means 9 times out of ten he will be exiled, meaning you can't bring him back again and again for continuous value. Even with the attack trigger, that means he needs to survive a rotation around the table to attack. And even if hypothetically you give him haste when you cast him from your hand and then attack into someone, we can't use what we exiled from their library. That scenario is also super magical christmas land. So my vote for Teneb is no Ulamog. Real quick, lets talk about Void Winnower, aka "Your opponents can't even". Note her synergy with Gaddock Teeg meaning she can really make your opponent's life hell. She can also be reanimated, which means you can cheat her out early, then back her up for protection. With shroud, she becomes virtually undefinable. However keep in mind that no matter how much tax you stack against your opponents, most spot removal is one CMC or three CMC, and that removal is usually exile. So you may not get repeted value out of her. Still, its good to know that she can fit into this deck semi decently.
So everyone, that is our set review! Overall, this set was pretty lack luster, but there are somethings worth trying. I think we as EDH players are just dying for Commander 2015. So that is where we'll see some value. Until then, keep on harvesting!
I mean... sure they are cool, but the normal foils of each are much cheaper. One expedition can pay for the last two foils I need for my red deck. So probably not.
Interesting. I wonder which two. PAX kind of confirmed Nissa with her new art, so the question is who will be the new planeswalker? My money is on Chandra, but maybe that is me being hopeful.
What's your take on Dakkon Blackblade?
I've thought on a non-green land deck before but it feels so weird.
Wee bit late, but he puts in work. I have been having trouble piloting him, mainly because I don't know how to play control. So its a new beast all in of itself.
I think what Boros needs is a general that can generate some sort of card advantage for those colors, since that is the area where they lack the most of. I am really excited for the 2015 decks, mainly because of the new generals but we get a chance to see how Wizards builds a Boros deck that is balanced with the other card combinations. Orzhov is another color combo I'm excited to see develop.
Yeah I know this feeling. Its hard to be underground just because so many generals overshadow other really cool legendary creatures. Lately I have had the urge to build really bad decks, just because they're helmed by generals I like. Dakkon Blackblade has been a recent project, but I got my eye on Anax and Cymede.
Yeah I've been wondering a bit on the banlist thing. I put in my two cents on the alternative banlist thread, but not quite sure how it all came about.
Lets keep this discussion of the official RC and their banned list out of this. The point of discussing an alternate one would be in order to run it in place of the current one so discussion of the official one seems a little moot considering the point of this thread.
Some real questions to ask would be:
Who would be on said committee. How do you determine how many people would be on the committee and who would be on it for what reasons.
What level of play would it be designed for.
Do you start with a blank banned list and build it up from the ground? Or do you start with what the official RC has and alter from there?
A lot of people on this thread have had some very good points lately. But lets take away all of the politics and look in the hypothetical sense of a Banlist for MTG Salvation. To answer the questions:
Most likely the individuals on the Primer Committee. These are players with experienced metas and have written in detail deck techs and play theory/philosophy that makes their Primers ultimate guides for said Commanders and strategies. This would most likely be the best group to facilitate the online banlist and run annual testings.
Well what do we mean by the [Competitive] tag in our threads? Those decks range from heavily oppressive/combo lists to people who come from underdeveloped metas, and therefore their deck is competitive in their environment. Context is a big player here. It would require a large sweep up up to date lists that are posted, seeing how the posters rate their deck's power level. Obviously, this is a long and tedious process, but we as a community range from such different play styles, environments, and experience backgrounds that you can't really pinpoint a said level to build the list from.
Here is the biggest conundrum. If you start from the ground up, you're going to put a lot of time and effort into a list that looks very similar to the current banlist. And if you start with the current banlist, the only changes will be slight tweeks and alterations to a small number of cards.
The issue here is that the actual banlist will not have any influence. It needs to be looked in the light of who operates this banlist. More focus needs to go on the fact that if this banlist hypothetically takes off, it will be a community based banlist, most likely determined by a vote system. There will have to be a annual banning that are decided via voting to set it apart form the current system. Of course, this has problems in of itself. If the EDH banlist was run by Wizards, how different would it be? For one thing, Sol Ring would absolutely not be banned, because it renders every single Commander Product useless. However, Wizards as a team would provide a better logistic system than the EDH Committee currently has (which is non-existent). Sheldon has said multiple times that they are willing to use numbers and a statistical system to determine bans, if they are funded properly (source: The Command Zone Episode #36). So what do we as a community bring to the table the current committee cannot? Well it looks like we can provide a better representation of the player base because so many players use this forum, and we are a large enough community to be notice.
We as players have power over WOTC, known as our wallets But we don't have that power with the EDH Committee. This basically means their 'power' is pretty much unchecked. If we established a banlist, the biggest thing in our favor is the fact that we represent a good chunk of the people who play EDH. So I think that is what needs to be discussed in terms of our strengths, since plenty of people can easily point out our weaknesses.
Overall, the deck is in a good place, but I may be looking a little more into some tweeks in the coming weeks. People in my meta have wised up and begun running enchantment-based hate against me. Someone actually mainboards Virulent Plauge just for me. I don't know if I should hate him or take it as a compliment. Either way, I am getting some hate. The best move would probably be to back off with Marton for now in my meta and play other decks. I'm going to have one last hurrah with him this Wednesday. Does anyone have any suggestions to tweek the current list?
Basic lands - Depends on how many effects I have that care about finding them. Off the top of my head, I typically run Land Tax, Thawing Glaciers, Burnished Hart, and Solemn Simulacrum. Running at least 10 basics typically doesn't make any of these dead cards.
Dual Lands - I always ran full sets. Originally it was shocks, checks, manlands, and sometimes painlands. The checks got upgraded to ABUR duals, and I started running the Temples when they came out. The biggest problem with the duals that aren't original/shocks is that you can't easily fetch them. The new Zendikar duals will be interesting as a potential upgrade to checks. My philosophy is that if a dual land is going to ETBT, it needs a strong upside to make it worth running.
Utility lands - I try to minimize these as much as possible because my deck has always been mana hungry for all three colors. Getting even two of these in an opening hand usually makes it hard to keep that hand.
Awesome, thank you Cryogen! In terms of a specific number, how many colorless utility lands do you run?
So far testing has been going pretty well, I just need to work on my focus during games. I have been worrying too much about getting Dakkon in there for lethal and not paying attention to the board. Rats.
For testing, I'm thinking of bringing in Retreat to Coralhelm and Emeria Angel but so far thats pretty much it. I was looking at Drana, but this deck doesn't run enough creatures.
"But she is so cute and cudd- OH MY GOD!"
This is a quick draft of a dragon deck I have always wanted to build. I recently decided to build more EDH decks that are fun for me and appeal to my tastes. So of course, I had to build a Dragon deck. I love dragons. They're my favorite critters, next to dinosaurs. I've always loved the idea of dragons heading the helm of an army (hence my love for Teneb, the Harvester), but I never had a deck that was filled to the brim with dragons. So I decided to build one. While I am building this deck pretty casually, I would like it to hold its own against some of the more tuned decks in my meta. I am still considering cards, such as Aggravated Assault and company for infinite combat steps. Since I'm very new to playing "big dudes, go", any advice or tips are always appreciated.
7 Atarka, World Render
Dragons (18)
5 Harbinger of the Hunt
5 Scourge of Valkas
5 Stormbreath Dragon
5 Thundermaw Hellkite
6 Destructor Dragon
6 Dragon Broodmother
6 Hellkite Charger
6 Hoard-Smelter Dragon
6 Mana-Charged Dragon
6 Savage Ventmaw
6 Scourge of the Throne
6 Steel Hellkite
7 Balefire Dragon
7 Kilnmouth Dragon
7 Tyrant's Familiar
8 Bogardan Hellkite
8 Scourge of Kher Ridges
8 Utvara Hellkite
Beat-Down Engines (10)
2 Dragon Tempest
3 Feldon of the Third Path
3 Fervor
3 Fires of Yavimaya
4 Crucible of Fire
4 Flameshadow Conjuring
4 Sarkhan Vol
5 Stonewood Invocation
5 World at War
5 Xenagos, God of Revels
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Sol Ring
2 Dragonlord's Servant
2 Lotus Cobra
2 Nature's Lore
2 Sakura-Tribe Elder
3 Awakening Zone
3 Cultivate
3 Dragonspeaker Shaman
3 Kodama's Reach
4 Explosive Vegetation
4 Frontier Siege
4 Garruk Wildspeaker
4 Oracle of Mul Daya
4 Skyshroud Claim
Removal (8)
1 Earthquake
2 Hull Breach
3 Beast Within
3 Chaos Warp
3 Krosan Grip
3 Song of the Dryads
4 Decimate
9 Blasphemous Act
Card Advantage (8)
2 Regrowth
2 Sylvan Library
3 Elemental Bond
3 Eternal Witness
4 Greater Good
4 Harmonize
4 Stranglehold
7 Nissa's Revelation
1 Worldly Tutor
3 Sarkhan's Triumph
7 Tooth and Nail
Land (37)
0 Command Tower
0 Haven of the Spirit Dragon
0 Reflecting Pool
0 Cinder Glade
0 Copperline Gorge
0 Fire-Lit Thicket
0 Karplusan Forest
0 Raging Ravine
0 Rootbound Crag
0 Rugged Highlands
0 Stomping Grounds
0 Temple of Abandon
0 Evolving Wilds
0 Terramorphic Expanse
0 Wooded Foothills
0 Homeward Path
0 Kessig Wolf Run
0 Temple of the False God
9 Forest
10 Mountain
Well folks, its that time again, for a set review. However, I am only going to go over a few cards and not the entire set. As always, if you see a card you really like but it isn't on this list, I would be more than happy to discuss it. But until then, these are my initial observations:
Emeria Shepherd: NOT ANGEL, shepherd. Shepherd seems like a monster of a house, until you realize she gets worse the more colors you play. We run just about 8 plains total, which means we won't trigger her prime ability all that often. In this deck, she reads "Landfall, return target non-land permanent to your hand." It isn't bad, but this next guy maybe better.
Greenwarden of Murasa: Double Eternal Witness is awesome. I'm not sure yet how well she fits in (testing needs to be done), but with the ability to recur her again and again, she maybe pure value town. Worth testing.
Gideon, Ally of Zendikar: This guy is worth talking about because he makes Teneb a turn three clock for the rest of the game. This means that you don't need any set up with Teneb, just cast him and swing. I really like that about him, as well as his ability to give you dudes. But I'm not sure if a four mana untouchable anthem is worth slotting into this deck. Still, it is worth a shot.
Drana, Liberator of Malakir: She is super fine I like her ability to pump all of your creatures, making your hatebears into monsters. Note that first strike means she puts counters on your creatures before they deal damage. It may make combat math a head ache, but I like it. Worth testing.
Ob Nixilis Reignited: Ob puts in work, drawing your cards like Phyrexian Arena and Murdering blockers. The thing is, he does a lot of things, but none of them well. I don't think he is focused enough. In addition, we have to consider our five mana planeswalker slot, taken up by Liliana Vess currently. Lily can get us either Arena or any kind of removal. So there is that to consider.
Undergrowth Champion: There has been a lot of hype around this guy... but dies to Doom Blade? I hate that argument, but its true. Very little removal is damage oriented in EDH, so this guy may get big, but not insane. I'd rather run Forgotten Ancient.
Shambling Vent: I'm going to test this bad boy out, but he seems a little lack luster. I'm waiting for the B/G manland to make a defined decision, so stay tuned.
Canopy Vista: I like these tango lands, just wish we had them for out other two color pairs. For now, Vista can be fetched and grabbed with Wood Elves so it is worth the slot.
The Eldrazi: Real quick, lets talk about these guys as a unit. While they're great for some decks, they don't sync very well with Teneb. Mainly, their synergy for other Eldrazi and colorless creatures (which we don't have either). Because of this, I don't think the Eldrazi are a good fit. The two I want to talk about are Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger and Void Winnower. Ulamog is a house in of himself, and can be reanimated this time around. However, he must be cast to get his exile triggers. This is a bit of a issue because he is now less attractive to reanimate. Also, being indestructible means 9 times out of ten he will be exiled, meaning you can't bring him back again and again for continuous value. Even with the attack trigger, that means he needs to survive a rotation around the table to attack. And even if hypothetically you give him haste when you cast him from your hand and then attack into someone, we can't use what we exiled from their library. That scenario is also super magical christmas land. So my vote for Teneb is no Ulamog. Real quick, lets talk about Void Winnower, aka "Your opponents can't even". Note her synergy with Gaddock Teeg meaning she can really make your opponent's life hell. She can also be reanimated, which means you can cheat her out early, then back her up for protection. With shroud, she becomes virtually undefinable. However keep in mind that no matter how much tax you stack against your opponents, most spot removal is one CMC or three CMC, and that removal is usually exile. So you may not get repeted value out of her. Still, its good to know that she can fit into this deck semi decently.
So everyone, that is our set review! Overall, this set was pretty lack luster, but there are somethings worth trying. I think we as EDH players are just dying for Commander 2015. So that is where we'll see some value. Until then, keep on harvesting!
Changes (10/5/15)
Mana Confluence -> Canopy Vista
Here is the new mana base I am going to test out. I opened both Prairie Stream and Sunken Hollow this weekend, so that must be a sign:
0 Command Tower
0 Reliquary Tower
0 Scrubland
0 Tundra
0 Flooded Strand
0 Marsh Flats
0 Polluted Delta
0 Godless Shrine
0 Hallowed Fountain
0 Watery Grave
0 Prairie Stream
0 Sunken Hollow
0 Drowned Catacomb
0 Glacial Fortress
0 Isolated Chapel
0 Temple of Deceit
0 Temple of Enlightenment
0 Temple of Silence
0 Shambling Vent
0 Tolaria West
0 Academy Ruins
0 Kor Haven
0 Rogue's Passage
0 Strip Mine
0 Thawing Glaciers
6 Island
3 Plains
3 Swamp
Wee bit late, but he puts in work. I have been having trouble piloting him, mainly because I don't know how to play control. So its a new beast all in of itself.
A lot of people on this thread have had some very good points lately. But lets take away all of the politics and look in the hypothetical sense of a Banlist for MTG Salvation. To answer the questions:
The issue here is that the actual banlist will not have any influence. It needs to be looked in the light of who operates this banlist. More focus needs to go on the fact that if this banlist hypothetically takes off, it will be a community based banlist, most likely determined by a vote system. There will have to be a annual banning that are decided via voting to set it apart form the current system. Of course, this has problems in of itself. If the EDH banlist was run by Wizards, how different would it be? For one thing, Sol Ring would absolutely not be banned, because it renders every single Commander Product useless. However, Wizards as a team would provide a better logistic system than the EDH Committee currently has (which is non-existent). Sheldon has said multiple times that they are willing to use numbers and a statistical system to determine bans, if they are funded properly (source: The Command Zone Episode #36). So what do we as a community bring to the table the current committee cannot? Well it looks like we can provide a better representation of the player base because so many players use this forum, and we are a large enough community to be notice.
We as players have power over WOTC, known as our wallets But we don't have that power with the EDH Committee. This basically means their 'power' is pretty much unchecked. If we established a banlist, the biggest thing in our favor is the fact that we represent a good chunk of the people who play EDH. So I think that is what needs to be discussed in terms of our strengths, since plenty of people can easily point out our weaknesses.
Awesome, thank you Cryogen! In terms of a specific number, how many colorless utility lands do you run?
So far testing has been going pretty well, I just need to work on my focus during games. I have been worrying too much about getting Dakkon in there for lethal and not paying attention to the board. Rats.
For testing, I'm thinking of bringing in Retreat to Coralhelm and Emeria Angel but so far thats pretty much it. I was looking at Drana, but this deck doesn't run enough creatures.