Alright guys, I am looking to put together my third legacy deck and again I have come to you for help. I currently have built Junk Blade, MUD Staxx, and am now looking to put together something that uses the Thopter Foundry + Sword of the Meek combo - I was fooling around with it and think it is both well positioned and fun in a grindy "screw you" kind of way, and I really want to be able to play blue in legacy.
Does anyone have any thoughts on one of the more fun / interactive thopter sword decks? I would like to keep it 2 colors (although not opposed to 3 colors), and would love to have it be competitive as possible... I know Tezz and UW thopter counter top are things, as are shardless thopter balance, and a few others that I have seen both here and on The Source - has anyone played any of the versions and have opinions they would like to share. Note that money is not an object - competitive > cost to me.
CARDNAME deals 1 damage to each player for each non-basic land they control. If a player controls 4 or more non basic land cards, CARDNAME deals 5 damage to that player instead.
Alright guys, I am in need of a new legacy deck to play!
Currently I play Junk Blade, which I love. However I have decided that my collection of legacy magic decks should be expanded to 2!
I want to play either a combo deck, or one that has a combo mode. I have been looking at Forgemaster combo, which I have really been enjoying gold-fishing, but I have also been looking at Solidarity.
The reason I like Forgemaster combo is because it has the ability to go beats mode which other decks that are primarily combo don't seem to have. It is really fun to win on turn 2/3 via hasted blightsteel colossus, and the deck is simply fun to play. Having said that, I really like both the idea and practice of being able to win in response to an opponent's spell - I enjoy having the ability to play purely reactive combo, and that too seems plain fun.
So I am at an impasse - what deck should I play? One of the above 2, or something completely different? I am looking for one that plays differently from Junk Blade (which both of the above do), and one that I could keep for a long time and keep getting better with. As far as my budget concerns, irrelevant - I want to treat myself here people!
Alright guys, I know it has been a while since I told you I would post my tournament report, but I have finally gotten the time to do so. My deck list, as a reminder was:
Note, that right before the tournament started, I substituted the Draining Whelk for a Tombstalker - in my head, it got around the problem I was having - tapping out on my turn - by coming in for BB every match I played him. I never saw him. so I cannot comment as to his effectiveness.
Round 1: vs Merfolk
Game 1:
I win the coin flip and I choose to go first. I see an opening hand of Cryptic Command, Serum Visions, Cruel Ultimatum, Electrolyze, and 3 lands. I keep, play my man land, and pass. My opponent plays a T1 vial and pass. I play a land, and pass. My opponent plays his land, some merfolk, and then at the end of my turn vialed in another. At this point I had not drawn a land and on my turn played my last one. This no land trend would continue until turn 7 where I draw my fourth land and stablize at 6 life, all the while ripping bolt, into electrolyze, into snapcaster bolt. My notes have "3 cryptics but only 2 blue mana - wtf?!" Finally I get to 7 mana and without thinking drop Cruel Ultimatum. Unfortunately that met a mana leak and it got binned. I ended up winning but it was a slow win via man lands -> snapcaster -> bolt, bolt from hand for the last bits of damage
SB: +2 Rakdos Charm, +1 Repeal, -2 Remand, -1 Cryptic
I had no idea what to sideboard for this matchup, since I think we are pretty well equipt to deal with this one. I brought in 2 rakdos charm and 1 repeal because this combonation can deal with vial, an overrun of creatures, and preserves at least some of the card draw I lose in taking out remand and cryptic which lose quite a bit of usefulness when dealing with vial.
Game 2:
Game 2 played out differently than G1 - I kept a hand of 2 man lands, a river of tears, serum visions, izzet charm, remand, and cryptic. I was on the play. He drops a land and passes. I drop my man land and pass. T2, he drops a land and passes. I drop a man land, and use the open one to play serum visions, leaving an electrolyze on top. T3 he drops Kira, Great Glass Spinner, and I slump. Kira gets in for 12 damage over the course of the next turns until I rip a damnation, and get rid of her with Cryptic Command backup. At this point I play draw go style while burning away relevant threats until I am able to land a cruel ultimatum on turn X. At that point, I had run his hand out of cards, and was able to get there with Auger of Bolas and Man Lands
Record: 1-0
Round 2: vs. Jund
Game 1:
I lost the coin flip, and kept a hand of 4 lands, snapcaster, izzet charm, and remand. My opponent decided to go first, and a turn 1 Inquisition took my izzet charm. I played a land and passed, and my opponent played a land and passed. On turn 3 he played Liliana which was met with a Remand, however on turn 4, Thrun came down and I got a little uneasy. On my turn 4 I was able to Inquisition, seeing 2 Goyf's, a blood crypt, and the Liliana I remanded. So I took lili, hoping that I would draw a Damnation at some point. Next turn my opponent played a goyf and swung with the Thrun. On my turn, I snapcastered into Inquisition of Kozilek, taking a Dark Confidant, and passed it off having picked up a Damnation. **This was probably a misplay - I should have Damnationed, let my opponent play out his hand, and then Snapcastered into Damnation, rather than being cute with the IoK. Oh well, this is why we practice.** Anyway, My opponent top-decks an IoK, and hits me, but only sees my land and damnation, and swings in. Turns go by and I damnation, and bolt away other creatures, but Thrun gets there in the end, accounting for all 20 damage done to me this game. I lost game 1.
SB: As I look at my sideboard I see that I have no way to truely deal with a Thrun, and start to feel odd. I bring in +2 Slaughter Games, +2 Shadow of Doubt, and take out -3 Izzet Charm, -1 Remand. I hope that Shadow of Doubt will give me a good tempo play, and that Slaughter Games naming either lili or thrun will be good for me. Izzet charm left because its modes are not useful here, and remand left because, well, just because I didnt feel like the card was good here. However now that I think about it, remand AND shadow of doubt go really well together.
Game 2: (This game is full of mis-plays - I was pretty frazzled after G1)
I am on the play and keep a hand of 3 lands, 2 bolts, a snapcaster, and cruel ultimatum. I drop a land and pass. My opponent drops a land, and IoK's me, taking my snapcaster. I drop a land, and pass. My opponent Thoughtsieze's me, taking my cruel, and plays a DRS. I play a land, and electrolyze the DRS, and pass it off, having picked up a damnation. My opponent plays Lili, uses her +1, and passes. I am at a loss here, as I picked up another land, and so I decided to double bolt lili, killing her, leaving my opponent with 1 card, and me with 1 card. I pass thinking there is no way my opponent has a thrun. He drops a land and passes. I drop a land that I just picked up, and pass. We go back and forth, me bolting his little guys, and him drawing land or critters and passing, until finally with land to regen, he drops a Thrun. I slump and watch as Thrun gets there for the full 20 points of damage, yet again. I lost game 2.
Record: 1-1
Round 3: vs. Affinity
Game 1:
As soon as I sat down, I knew what I was playing against. This guy comes in each week with Tezzeret affinity, and usually makes the cut to top 8. This is a pretty good matchup for us, so I felt pretty comfortable. I keep an opening hand of 3 lands, IoK, izzet charm, thoughtflare, and snapcaster mage. I win the coin toss so I go first, and play a land into inquisition, seeing a hand of 3 land, etched champion, vault skirge, cranial plating, and frogmite. I take the Etched champion, and pass the turn. He plays a vault skirge, and passes. I play man land, and pass. He plays land, plating, and swings with lifelink. I drop a land, pass. He drops land, frogmite, and equips the vault skirge with the crnial plating, and I izzet charm the skirge. He passes the turn. We go back and forth, my burn taking care of the creatures he puts out and attempts to equip, until I finish him off with man lands, and a snapcaster into bolt.
SB: +2 Rakdos Charm, -2 Remand. In this matchup I feel like remands are useless but for the card draw. I took them out hapily
Game 2:
I keep a hand of 2 man land, 2 normal land, bolt, cryptic, and Inquisition. My opponent drops Swamp, Ornithopter, Springleaf Drum, Vault Skirge, and passes the turn. I topdeck and electrolyze, and drop a scalding tarn into inquisition, seeing 2 cranial platings and 1 frogmite. I take the frogmite, and pass the turn. My opponent plays cranial plating, and swings. I play land, pass. My opponent plays land, frogmite, cranial plating #2, equips the first to the skirge, but I bolt in response and the turn is passed. At this point I asked if he would mind if I wrote down the board state for when I post the games here, and he didnt so allow me to paint you readers a mental picture. At the end of turn 2, my opponent has 2 swamps, a springleaf drum, an ornithopter, a frogmite, and 2 cranial platings in play. I have 2 lands in play. The turn is passed to me, and I topdeck a bolt, play a land, and pass. My opponent plays a memnite, and equips a cranial plating to each of his Ornithopter and frogmite, and swings. His frogmite meets an electrolyze, drawing me a land, and I take 5. Turn passes to me, I drop a land, and go. He drops a land, equips, and I cryptic to tap his creatures and draw, picking up an electrolyze, and then on my draw for turn, another electrolyze. I drop a land, and pass. My opponent swings, and I electrolyze the thopter, and bolt the memnite, leaving him with no creatures. He thoughtcasts, and passes the turn. I play land, pass. He plays vault skirge into remand, plays the skirge again, and equips a plating. I play land go, electrolyze on his turn... - at this point my hand got tired and I stopped writing, but I won this game off of a cruel ultimatum and snapcaster mage beats. Even with the writing of the game plays, we had 20 min left so we walked across the street to KFC and got some of those dirreah bowls (KFC Famous Bowls) and waited until round 4.
Record: 2-1
Round 4: vs. Infect
Game 1:
I had no idea what I was playing against and kept a hand of 2 lands, inquisition, remand, electrolyze, damnation, and cruel ultimatum. I was pleased. My opponent goes first, and drops pendlehaven into glistener elf. I drop land, and my inquisition sees 2 lands, distortion strike, glistener elf, and noble hierarch. I take distortion strike and pass the turn. My opponent swings for 6 poison. I play land, pass with remand mana up. My opponent plays, swings, and I go to 9 poison. I dont draw a red source for electrolyze, and we go to game 2.
SB: -1 Cryptic, +1 Repeal
Game 2:
I keep a hand of 3 land, Inquisition, charm, cryptic command, and cruel ultimatum. I turn 1 IOK, seeing might, distortion strike, inkmoth, rancor, land, and groundswell. I took groundswell. From here my notes have in capital letters BURN BABY. The game ends when my opponent activates inkmoth -> my bolt -> his might of old krosa -> my cryptic -> his might of old krosa -> my remand -> he concedes. I had taken no poison
Game 3:
I keep a hand of 3 lands, 2 Auger of Bolas, Cryptic Command, and Cruel Ultimatum. My opponent T1 takes my cryptic command with his own IoK. I then rip my own IoK, play it, and see Pendlehaven, Vines of Vastwood, Rancor, Land, and Glistener Elf, which I take. My opponent plays land and passes. I auger, taking a thoughtflare, and pass. We play draw go for a little bit with me burning his little guys until turn 7 when I snapcaster into cryptic, bouncing inkmoth to his hand and fizzling a vines of vastwood on his attack step, and drawing into cruel ultimatum, which I played to a win the following turn. My opponent conceded after its resolution.
Record: 3-1
Round 5: We draw in to top 8.
3-1-1
Round 6: Top 8 match vs. Scapeshift
Game 1:
I keep a hand of 1 tapland, 2 cascade bluffs, bolt, auger, thoughtflare, and cryptic. I win the toss, and go first against an unknown opponent who mulls to 6. I play land, pass. My opponent cracks a fetch for a breeding pool, and suspends search for tomorrow. Its Scapeshift. I pick up an IoK, and drop and Auger of Bolas, finding a remand. My opponent farseaks, and passes. I play land, swing, play IoK, seeing Farseak, Prismatic Omen, land, and Prime Time. I took prismatic omen, and passed. I remand search for tomorrow, and he double Farseaks into 6 mana. I play land, and pass. My opponent plays prime time, and meets a cryptic. From there he plays search for tomorrow and has an empty hand, and passes. I keep a cryptic in hand, and beat with 2x augers for the win, countering a scapeshift, and another prime time in the process.
Game 2:
Here I made a huge mistake and didnt sideboard - I was talking to a friend in between G1 and G2, and presented my deck and started playing and realized that while I had set aside what I wanted to board in, I never actually swapped cards, and so I was playing against my stock 60 rather than a sideboarded deck. I kept a hand of 3 land, remand, snapcaster, auger, and cryptic command. I dont have much in the way of notes for this game, other than I have counter back up for nearly every play he makes, and finish with auger of bolas and snapcaster beat down for a 2-0 win here.
Record: 4-1-1
Finals: It was late and so we decided to draw and split the prize pool
Thoughts: Thoughtflare: While good when it lands, I wanted it to cost less mana - I might try and find a substitute lower on the mana curve
Snapcaster Mage: Love him, but I think 2 is the right number - his utility is valuable, but I usually want him to copy something with card draw, which means the earliest I want to use him is on turn 5 with Electrolyze (or I guess turn 4 with remand, but we will talk about remand later)
Auger of Bolas: Love him too, and I wish I could run more - I am going to try and find slots for him, but the list feels so tight as it is.
Tombstalker: Never saw him, but then again, I never needed him - I might cut him for another Auger
Remand: Alright, so I have a love/hate relationship with this card. There have been games where I remand on turn 2 or 3, and it is amazing - it draws me a card, and basically time walks my opponent. However later on in the game it sucks. I mean, it absolutely blows - remanding anything when they have more mana then they know what to do with makes me wish it was something else. In the end, remand will stay because of how good it is in the early game, but it is one of those cards that feels like a necessary evil.
Inquisition of Kozilek: When I started building this deck this card was a 2-of. Slowly I went to 3 copies, and now I run the full 4. I really wanted to not like this card, but every time I play it, it makes my counter suite stronger by eliminating key threats, and it just... its just good.
Damnation: I really like this card too, and while I want to go up to 3, I feel like that might be too much - I will, however, test with 3 and see how I fare.
Electrolyze: This is another one of those cards like IoK where I thought I would hate it but I ended up loving. 3 is the correct number for me
Izzet Charm: This is another one of those love/hate cards - when this card is good, it is very good, but 80% of the time I find my self using it as an end of turn looting, which begs the question - why not just play the card I want to play in this slot. It is on the chopping block.
Serum Visions: Like others have said, i started with 0 of this card, but after adding it in, it makes the deck so much more smooth. I dont know why it makes the deck feel better, but it just does.
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So here is where I am at - I love the deck. I think it is some of the most fun I have had playing magic in a long time, and I am happy that this is what I decided on in modern. As far as card choices go, my sideboard is a mess - it never had what I wanted, and I feel like had I put more time into it, I would have gone from good to great.
As far as main board, we don't really NEED creature threats, or a 3rd cruel ultimatum, but I want to find something to replace my Tombstalker with - some high impact spell at 4-6 mana that is not damnation (and I already run 4 cryptics), that provides an advantage... a mini Cruel Ultimatum if you will... I want that or I will just shift that slot to a third Auger of Bolas.
Remand in my head is a card that is 4 or 0 - if played, it needs to be a 4 of because of its value early game, and its lack there of in the late game. If it is replaced, whatever it is replaced with needs to draw cards - the deck is unique in that it works because most cards replace themselves, and removing 4 of those pieces - 4 of those self-replacing cards - without adding them, hurts the decks ability to filter through itself.
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Finally, I have been toying around with the idea of purchasing the deck on MODO and streaming games / uploading them to twitch.tv and youtube for both new and experienced players to learn, be entertained, and comment on its iterations... would there be interest in this? I was flipping through the 8-rack thread and saw that they have videos of the decks match-ups and I thought that was brilliant. Let me know what you think.
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Anyway, thanks for reading, and I look forward to reading responses.
Draining Whelk is my solution to my feeling like I am not doing enough / wasting time when keeping counter magic up but not finding a target. I played at my LGS on Modern Wednesday recently and will write a report when I get off work later. I would love to read thoughts in the mean time.
Alright guys, I am having a sort of dilemma. I have built Cruel Control (grixis list with 2x cruel ultimatum as my finisher (and that alone + snapcasters)) and have been loving the deck, but lately I have been wanting a change
Preferred Playstyle: control or tempo - basically not strict agro or strict combo
How Competitive: I want to be able to walk into an unknown FNM meta (which I will be doing when I move in about a month), and crush. Beyond that if I like the deck in paper I will likely build it on MODO to practice and play more competitively, but I dont need the flavor of the month tier 1 beast to be satisfied.
Favorite Cards/Colors:
Here is where it is interesting - From Cruel Control, I liked cards like electrolize, bolt, cryptic command, damnation, and the man lands. I hated cards like remand, and inquisition (more for the fact that it was a late game dud or awkward draw - I like my threats to be relevant at all points). I would like a suggestion in grixis, or even izzet (but mainly grixis) colors.
Budget: Not an issue
Staples Owned: Cruel Control staples (Scalding tarn, cryptic, snaps, shocks, damnation, etc.), Marsh Flats, Verdant Catacombs... basically while I likely have it, if I dont own it, I do not mind buying it over time.
My problem with Cruel Control is that it isnt doing enough (if that makes sense). I feel like some games I just get Cruel Ultimatum at the right time and go to town, and other games, I go 35 cards deep durdling, and lose games that should have been locked up 10 turns beforehand. So I would like a deck that does not have that problem (super clear, right? lol)
So I know that this is an awkward and counter to the norm style of submission, but gurus of "What Should I Play?"... What Should I Play?!
Hey guys, I am a long time lurker of this thread, and have just purchased the last piece of my iteration of Junk Blade - just in time for a local event in 2 weekends (was missing my last 2 scrubland, and decided to pull the trigger and grab them). This is what I plan on running, barring a last minute change up.
*As to the question of why only 3 Dark Confidant - In this deck, I really am not looking to drop a bob as early as possible. I am Ok only seeing 1 per game, and don't necessarily need to have him in my opening hand (at least in my opinion / limited testing). When I have him in my starting 7, he usually comes in much further down the road, and I decided to increase the likelihood of a starting 7 more in line with what I was looking for and chance ripping Bob later, over drawing multiples of him that I just don't need.
I like how the deck runs at the moment, and am really happy to have finished building it just the way I like. However, I am having last minute second thoughts about my finisher of choice - Mirran Crusader, and my running the full 4 swords to plowshares and Lingering Souls. I am debating between any number of Hymn to Tourach, and as was mentioned earlier, Sin Collector, and was hoping to hear what yall thought considering my specific approach to the deck. I feel like Sin Collector's ability in conjunction with the equipment in the deck make him a good choice of finisher, as he works well with our overall theme (at least in my case) of agressive lockdown.
Thanks for taking the time to consider my variant! I am very pleased to finally be one of the community who has his version fully built and ready to play in events, and I look forward to reading your responses!
it hit 100 dollars through demand. modern masters exists because modern can have any of its legal cards reprinted to keep prices low to keep in order to sell packs to sustain its viability. legacy doesnt sell packs the way other formats do. magic is a luxury. wheres the moaning about reprinting power 9? or tabernacle/ or mana drain or any other high priced card. what makes fow so special and what makes you all feel so entitled that everyone should have access to every card so much so that secondary value should influence design even when it has no bearing on the formats that sell product.
youre entitled and you know it.
In response to this, there are a few issues, the first of which is that most of what you listed (power 9, etc), correct me if I am wrong, is currently on the reserved list. This is not me coming from an entitled place, this is fact.
What makes cards that are not on the reserved list so special so that everyone should have access to them, is that implicit in not being on the reserved list is the expectation that the card can and will be reprinted. The reason you hear clamors for FoW more than Tabernacle is because it is played more, plain and simple.
I just posted a way to include it in a set so that it fits in design wise, could be a great gimic to sell packs, and would allow most people into the format, which seems to have addressed all of your concerns in the quoted post. Do you still have an issue if the reprint occurs like I described?
Force of Will should see a reprint and here is how I would do it. I would put in in M14.
M14 is the 20th anniversary core set, and so there is already an expectation of something memorable occurring to mark the occasion.
So I would spoil the set like normal, with spoiled cards trickling in. However, 1-3 slots (FoW, X, Y) don't get spoiled. Then on the night of the banned/restricted list update, Fow, X, and Y are all banned in modern. Then the following morning they announce that the last 3 cards in the set are FoW, X, and Y!
This would do a few things.
1. Most importantly, it would keep FoW and friends out of modern where they would undoubtedly change the format (whether that is good or bad is not my place to argue).
2. It would introduce them into standard, where likely they will see fringe to moderate play - as there is no combo in standard, they aren't needed to stop the T1 wins, which means that their use (card disadvantage) allows aggro decks to rise to the top, forcing the meta out of force and into answers.
3. It would sell packs and boxes of core sets, which, while based on anecdotal evidence, seem to sell less than a normal expansion set, while lowering the price for legacy players.
In response to the argument that this would crash values - you are likely right, this would drop the card to around 30-40 dollars. However, the bad faith that this would garner from retailers like SSG, would likely be countered by an increase in sealed product sales. If you dont believe the ~$35 valuation, just look at rares like snapcaster, from one of the most heavily drafted sets, still sitting at ~$20.
The result of the printing would be incredible - old players might return to the game when they see familiar cards reprinted, new legacy players may enter the format, and pay admission to legacy SSG and TCGPlayer events where they would not have before because they couldn't play their favorite color because it was too expensive. Your hometown might even get a legacy scene of its own going.
TLDR; Print it in standard, while simultaneously banning it in modern to make everyone happy and more likely to crack packs to sell a core set that historically under-preforms relative to expansion sets.
I have a problem and it is land base building - I am feeling a little overwhelmed coming from mono-colored modern and standard decks, and was hoping to appeal to the community for some assistance. I plan on building the deck below baring the modification of 1 or 2 cards, and was wondering if anyone would be so kind as to point me in the right direction in terms of how to build a land base... How do you go about it, how do you determine which lands you want, how do you determine what kind of utility lands you want to use when you have Knight of the Reliquary in your deck... any information you can give is much appreciated. Without further adue, here is is!
This leaves a total of 21 (or 22 if we decide to cut the Sylvan Library) slots open for land. I know that I want to have at the very least 5 fetches, but do I want more if I have KotR? How do we go about building a base with the utility land search granted by KotR and to a lesser extent, Top? I have gone through other forum posts and have gotten ideas, but because I need to splash to have access to all 5 colors, I feel like I havent really found one that fits.
Anyway, thanks for all the help, and I look forward to reading and learning!
So after deciding to take the plunge into modern, I have decided to play with a deck type that I have really taken to - control, with a sub-theme I have always liked - discard.
This deck is a cross between reactive and proactive control. Turns 1-3 play out prety much as you would expect them to... Inquisition of Kozilek or Raven's Crime into burning away early threats until can you create a neutural board state with card-in-hand advantage.
Following the first few turns, the deck shifts into a burn lockdown style by turning extra lands into discard via Raven's Crime and any other draws into (with discard) unanswerable threats.
Issues I have been having:
-really I dont know if Deathrite Shaman truely fits this deck. On the one hand, it will always have fuel because of the ammount of discard, but on the other hand, he feals somewhat dead later on... I would love thoughts on what you might fill into his slot.
-I have very little way to interact with resolved artifacts or enchantments. Now one argument is that I would be dealing with them before they even hit the board with all of the discard, but on the other hand, I cant decide if that is truely valid.
What I have found is that most decks that have a heavy discard theme focus too heavily on it, at the expense of versitility, and end up being ineffective for their lack of ability to deal with resolved threats. I think what I have here is a large step in resolving that issue.
Anyway, I would love feedback - I plan on taking this to the LGS and eventually, fingers crossed, to larger tournaments. Everything you saw will be greatly appreciated.
@Greenpoe and Capt. Nick
Thank you very much for your suggestions - after implementing and goldfishing with the addition of some of the cards you guys mentioned, I am feeling much more comfortable with how the deck plays out in the early stages. The list at the moment is as follows:
I feel that you were both right in your case made for Lightning Bolt, and it seemed the natural replacement for Jab and Harvest - I also feel like Pridemage and Witness provide me with more resiliance over what I had earlier so they went in, as did the Bog and Steppe. I reasoned that Countryside Crusher would be a mediocre mid game draw as I would need to go through the assault cycle to see value out of him, and whose spaces would be better allocated to the cards above. I removed him for that reason, and in his place stuffed the cards above.
I don't know (or at least didnt like) about putting Path to Exile in the deck because I felt like while a great card when it works, its drawback of giving my opponent a land (putting more pressure on me going off earlier) or cascading into it when there is no worthy target far outweighed its potential value.
As far as the sideboard goes, I have always love the concept of transformational sideboard, and realized that with the changes we just made, the deck looks similar enough to Big Naya to make the deck transform into it. The thinking is that my opponent will sideboard in graveyard and enchantment hate, which will then be blank against the deck that abuses neither (well maybe the gy slightly with knight, but thats what the pridemage is for - to remove spellbombs and the like). As a result, my rough sideboard looks like:
Any thoughts? I fell like it puts enough early game pressure in a significantly different enough way to blank my opponents sideboard choices, and turning the game into aggro naya vs handicapped opponent.
Comments after reading through most of the thread:
While I have a fewer number of creatures than the rough lists of some of my fellow posters on this thread, my reasoning behind that choice, is that I want to preserve the multiple avenues to victory that the BRG version touts, while still remaining in these colors and the potential to develop large creatures if left unchecked.
My thinking with this list is that I want to be hitting them from multiple angles - Bloodbraid Elf cascaded into anything is a good value with the dorks removed, and as a result of not having those dorks / non essential (arguably) pieces, is that the loam assault burn interaction is still abused to its fullest.
Idea:
My contribution to the think tank is this - has anyone attempted to brew a list that uses almost exclusively man lands along side the loam engine? In my head it could be effective to swing in with Mishra's Factory and make your opponent choose between 2 to the face, blocking the 2 and trading, or blocking the 2 and giving fodder to the assault loam engine.
Anyway, I would love to hear any comments that y'all might have
Does anyone have any thoughts on one of the more fun / interactive thopter sword decks? I would like to keep it 2 colors (although not opposed to 3 colors), and would love to have it be competitive as possible... I know Tezz and UW thopter counter top are things, as are shardless thopter balance, and a few others that I have seen both here and on The Source - has anyone played any of the versions and have opinions they would like to share. Note that money is not an object - competitive > cost to me.
Thanks in advance guys!
Best,
Zachtraps
Instant
CARDNAME deals 1 damage to each player for each non-basic land they control. If a player controls 4 or more non basic land cards, CARDNAME deals 5 damage to that player instead.
Currently I play Junk Blade, which I love. However I have decided that my collection of legacy magic decks should be expanded to 2!
I want to play either a combo deck, or one that has a combo mode. I have been looking at Forgemaster combo, which I have really been enjoying gold-fishing, but I have also been looking at Solidarity.
The reason I like Forgemaster combo is because it has the ability to go beats mode which other decks that are primarily combo don't seem to have. It is really fun to win on turn 2/3 via hasted blightsteel colossus, and the deck is simply fun to play. Having said that, I really like both the idea and practice of being able to win in response to an opponent's spell - I enjoy having the ability to play purely reactive combo, and that too seems plain fun.
So I am at an impasse - what deck should I play? One of the above 2, or something completely different? I am looking for one that plays differently from Junk Blade (which both of the above do), and one that I could keep for a long time and keep getting better with. As far as my budget concerns, irrelevant - I want to treat myself here people!
Thanks in advance!
1 Blood Crypt
3 Cascade Bluffs
4 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Dreadship Reef
1 Drowned Catacomb
1 Lavaclaw Reaches
2 River of Tears
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Snow-Covered Island
1 Snow-Covered Mountain
1 Snow-Covered Swamp
2 Steam Vents
1 Sulfur Falls
2 Watery Grave
2 Augur of Bolas
2 Snapcaster Mage
1 Draining Whelk
Spells
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Serum Visions
3 Izzet Charm
4 Remand
3 Electrolyze
4 Cryptic Command
2 Damnation
2 Thoughtflare
2 Cruel Ultimatum
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Pithing Needle
1 Repeal
2 Rakdos Charm
2 Shadow of Doubt
3 Spellskite
2 Slaughter Games
2 Sowing Salt
Note, that right before the tournament started, I substituted the Draining Whelk for a Tombstalker - in my head, it got around the problem I was having - tapping out on my turn - by coming in for BB every match I played him. I never saw him. so I cannot comment as to his effectiveness.
Round 1: vs Merfolk
Game 1:
I win the coin flip and I choose to go first. I see an opening hand of Cryptic Command, Serum Visions, Cruel Ultimatum, Electrolyze, and 3 lands. I keep, play my man land, and pass. My opponent plays a T1 vial and pass. I play a land, and pass. My opponent plays his land, some merfolk, and then at the end of my turn vialed in another. At this point I had not drawn a land and on my turn played my last one. This no land trend would continue until turn 7 where I draw my fourth land and stablize at 6 life, all the while ripping bolt, into electrolyze, into snapcaster bolt. My notes have "3 cryptics but only 2 blue mana - wtf?!" Finally I get to 7 mana and without thinking drop Cruel Ultimatum. Unfortunately that met a mana leak and it got binned. I ended up winning but it was a slow win via man lands -> snapcaster -> bolt, bolt from hand for the last bits of damage
SB: +2 Rakdos Charm, +1 Repeal, -2 Remand, -1 Cryptic
I had no idea what to sideboard for this matchup, since I think we are pretty well equipt to deal with this one. I brought in 2 rakdos charm and 1 repeal because this combonation can deal with vial, an overrun of creatures, and preserves at least some of the card draw I lose in taking out remand and cryptic which lose quite a bit of usefulness when dealing with vial.
Game 2:
Game 2 played out differently than G1 - I kept a hand of 2 man lands, a river of tears, serum visions, izzet charm, remand, and cryptic. I was on the play. He drops a land and passes. I drop my man land and pass. T2, he drops a land and passes. I drop a man land, and use the open one to play serum visions, leaving an electrolyze on top. T3 he drops Kira, Great Glass Spinner, and I slump. Kira gets in for 12 damage over the course of the next turns until I rip a damnation, and get rid of her with Cryptic Command backup. At this point I play draw go style while burning away relevant threats until I am able to land a cruel ultimatum on turn X. At that point, I had run his hand out of cards, and was able to get there with Auger of Bolas and Man Lands
Record: 1-0
Round 2: vs. Jund
Game 1:
I lost the coin flip, and kept a hand of 4 lands, snapcaster, izzet charm, and remand. My opponent decided to go first, and a turn 1 Inquisition took my izzet charm. I played a land and passed, and my opponent played a land and passed. On turn 3 he played Liliana which was met with a Remand, however on turn 4, Thrun came down and I got a little uneasy. On my turn 4 I was able to Inquisition, seeing 2 Goyf's, a blood crypt, and the Liliana I remanded. So I took lili, hoping that I would draw a Damnation at some point. Next turn my opponent played a goyf and swung with the Thrun. On my turn, I snapcastered into Inquisition of Kozilek, taking a Dark Confidant, and passed it off having picked up a Damnation. **This was probably a misplay - I should have Damnationed, let my opponent play out his hand, and then Snapcastered into Damnation, rather than being cute with the IoK. Oh well, this is why we practice.** Anyway, My opponent top-decks an IoK, and hits me, but only sees my land and damnation, and swings in. Turns go by and I damnation, and bolt away other creatures, but Thrun gets there in the end, accounting for all 20 damage done to me this game. I lost game 1.
SB: As I look at my sideboard I see that I have no way to truely deal with a Thrun, and start to feel odd. I bring in +2 Slaughter Games, +2 Shadow of Doubt, and take out -3 Izzet Charm, -1 Remand. I hope that Shadow of Doubt will give me a good tempo play, and that Slaughter Games naming either lili or thrun will be good for me. Izzet charm left because its modes are not useful here, and remand left because, well, just because I didnt feel like the card was good here. However now that I think about it, remand AND shadow of doubt go really well together.
Game 2: (This game is full of mis-plays - I was pretty frazzled after G1)
I am on the play and keep a hand of 3 lands, 2 bolts, a snapcaster, and cruel ultimatum. I drop a land and pass. My opponent drops a land, and IoK's me, taking my snapcaster. I drop a land, and pass. My opponent Thoughtsieze's me, taking my cruel, and plays a DRS. I play a land, and electrolyze the DRS, and pass it off, having picked up a damnation. My opponent plays Lili, uses her +1, and passes. I am at a loss here, as I picked up another land, and so I decided to double bolt lili, killing her, leaving my opponent with 1 card, and me with 1 card. I pass thinking there is no way my opponent has a thrun. He drops a land and passes. I drop a land that I just picked up, and pass. We go back and forth, me bolting his little guys, and him drawing land or critters and passing, until finally with land to regen, he drops a Thrun. I slump and watch as Thrun gets there for the full 20 points of damage, yet again. I lost game 2.
Record: 1-1
Round 3: vs. Affinity
Game 1:
As soon as I sat down, I knew what I was playing against. This guy comes in each week with Tezzeret affinity, and usually makes the cut to top 8. This is a pretty good matchup for us, so I felt pretty comfortable. I keep an opening hand of 3 lands, IoK, izzet charm, thoughtflare, and snapcaster mage. I win the coin toss so I go first, and play a land into inquisition, seeing a hand of 3 land, etched champion, vault skirge, cranial plating, and frogmite. I take the Etched champion, and pass the turn. He plays a vault skirge, and passes. I play man land, and pass. He plays land, plating, and swings with lifelink. I drop a land, pass. He drops land, frogmite, and equips the vault skirge with the crnial plating, and I izzet charm the skirge. He passes the turn. We go back and forth, my burn taking care of the creatures he puts out and attempts to equip, until I finish him off with man lands, and a snapcaster into bolt.
SB: +2 Rakdos Charm, -2 Remand. In this matchup I feel like remands are useless but for the card draw. I took them out hapily
Game 2:
I keep a hand of 2 man land, 2 normal land, bolt, cryptic, and Inquisition. My opponent drops Swamp, Ornithopter, Springleaf Drum, Vault Skirge, and passes the turn. I topdeck and electrolyze, and drop a scalding tarn into inquisition, seeing 2 cranial platings and 1 frogmite. I take the frogmite, and pass the turn. My opponent plays cranial plating, and swings. I play land, pass. My opponent plays land, frogmite, cranial plating #2, equips the first to the skirge, but I bolt in response and the turn is passed. At this point I asked if he would mind if I wrote down the board state for when I post the games here, and he didnt so allow me to paint you readers a mental picture. At the end of turn 2, my opponent has 2 swamps, a springleaf drum, an ornithopter, a frogmite, and 2 cranial platings in play. I have 2 lands in play. The turn is passed to me, and I topdeck a bolt, play a land, and pass. My opponent plays a memnite, and equips a cranial plating to each of his Ornithopter and frogmite, and swings. His frogmite meets an electrolyze, drawing me a land, and I take 5. Turn passes to me, I drop a land, and go. He drops a land, equips, and I cryptic to tap his creatures and draw, picking up an electrolyze, and then on my draw for turn, another electrolyze. I drop a land, and pass. My opponent swings, and I electrolyze the thopter, and bolt the memnite, leaving him with no creatures. He thoughtcasts, and passes the turn. I play land, pass. He plays vault skirge into remand, plays the skirge again, and equips a plating. I play land go, electrolyze on his turn... - at this point my hand got tired and I stopped writing, but I won this game off of a cruel ultimatum and snapcaster mage beats. Even with the writing of the game plays, we had 20 min left so we walked across the street to KFC and got some of those dirreah bowls (KFC Famous Bowls) and waited until round 4.
Record: 2-1
Round 4: vs. Infect
Game 1:
I had no idea what I was playing against and kept a hand of 2 lands, inquisition, remand, electrolyze, damnation, and cruel ultimatum. I was pleased. My opponent goes first, and drops pendlehaven into glistener elf. I drop land, and my inquisition sees 2 lands, distortion strike, glistener elf, and noble hierarch. I take distortion strike and pass the turn. My opponent swings for 6 poison. I play land, pass with remand mana up. My opponent plays, swings, and I go to 9 poison. I dont draw a red source for electrolyze, and we go to game 2.
SB: -1 Cryptic, +1 Repeal
Game 2:
I keep a hand of 3 land, Inquisition, charm, cryptic command, and cruel ultimatum. I turn 1 IOK, seeing might, distortion strike, inkmoth, rancor, land, and groundswell. I took groundswell. From here my notes have in capital letters BURN BABY. The game ends when my opponent activates inkmoth -> my bolt -> his might of old krosa -> my cryptic -> his might of old krosa -> my remand -> he concedes. I had taken no poison
Game 3:
I keep a hand of 3 lands, 2 Auger of Bolas, Cryptic Command, and Cruel Ultimatum. My opponent T1 takes my cryptic command with his own IoK. I then rip my own IoK, play it, and see Pendlehaven, Vines of Vastwood, Rancor, Land, and Glistener Elf, which I take. My opponent plays land and passes. I auger, taking a thoughtflare, and pass. We play draw go for a little bit with me burning his little guys until turn 7 when I snapcaster into cryptic, bouncing inkmoth to his hand and fizzling a vines of vastwood on his attack step, and drawing into cruel ultimatum, which I played to a win the following turn. My opponent conceded after its resolution.
Record: 3-1
Round 5: We draw in to top 8.
3-1-1
Round 6: Top 8 match vs. Scapeshift
Game 1:
I keep a hand of 1 tapland, 2 cascade bluffs, bolt, auger, thoughtflare, and cryptic. I win the toss, and go first against an unknown opponent who mulls to 6. I play land, pass. My opponent cracks a fetch for a breeding pool, and suspends search for tomorrow. Its Scapeshift. I pick up an IoK, and drop and Auger of Bolas, finding a remand. My opponent farseaks, and passes. I play land, swing, play IoK, seeing Farseak, Prismatic Omen, land, and Prime Time. I took prismatic omen, and passed. I remand search for tomorrow, and he double Farseaks into 6 mana. I play land, and pass. My opponent plays prime time, and meets a cryptic. From there he plays search for tomorrow and has an empty hand, and passes. I keep a cryptic in hand, and beat with 2x augers for the win, countering a scapeshift, and another prime time in the process.
Game 2:
Here I made a huge mistake and didnt sideboard - I was talking to a friend in between G1 and G2, and presented my deck and started playing and realized that while I had set aside what I wanted to board in, I never actually swapped cards, and so I was playing against my stock 60 rather than a sideboarded deck. I kept a hand of 3 land, remand, snapcaster, auger, and cryptic command. I dont have much in the way of notes for this game, other than I have counter back up for nearly every play he makes, and finish with auger of bolas and snapcaster beat down for a 2-0 win here.
Record: 4-1-1
Finals: It was late and so we decided to draw and split the prize pool
Thoughts:
Thoughtflare: While good when it lands, I wanted it to cost less mana - I might try and find a substitute lower on the mana curve
Snapcaster Mage: Love him, but I think 2 is the right number - his utility is valuable, but I usually want him to copy something with card draw, which means the earliest I want to use him is on turn 5 with Electrolyze (or I guess turn 4 with remand, but we will talk about remand later)
Auger of Bolas: Love him too, and I wish I could run more - I am going to try and find slots for him, but the list feels so tight as it is.
Tombstalker: Never saw him, but then again, I never needed him - I might cut him for another Auger
Remand: Alright, so I have a love/hate relationship with this card. There have been games where I remand on turn 2 or 3, and it is amazing - it draws me a card, and basically time walks my opponent. However later on in the game it sucks. I mean, it absolutely blows - remanding anything when they have more mana then they know what to do with makes me wish it was something else. In the end, remand will stay because of how good it is in the early game, but it is one of those cards that feels like a necessary evil.
Cryptic Command: I love this card
Inquisition of Kozilek: When I started building this deck this card was a 2-of. Slowly I went to 3 copies, and now I run the full 4. I really wanted to not like this card, but every time I play it, it makes my counter suite stronger by eliminating key threats, and it just... its just good.
Damnation: I really like this card too, and while I want to go up to 3, I feel like that might be too much - I will, however, test with 3 and see how I fare.
Electrolyze: This is another one of those cards like IoK where I thought I would hate it but I ended up loving. 3 is the correct number for me
Izzet Charm: This is another one of those love/hate cards - when this card is good, it is very good, but 80% of the time I find my self using it as an end of turn looting, which begs the question - why not just play the card I want to play in this slot. It is on the chopping block.
Serum Visions: Like others have said, i started with 0 of this card, but after adding it in, it makes the deck so much more smooth. I dont know why it makes the deck feel better, but it just does.
Lightning Bolt: Love it
------
So here is where I am at - I love the deck. I think it is some of the most fun I have had playing magic in a long time, and I am happy that this is what I decided on in modern. As far as card choices go, my sideboard is a mess - it never had what I wanted, and I feel like had I put more time into it, I would have gone from good to great.
As far as main board, we don't really NEED creature threats, or a 3rd cruel ultimatum, but I want to find something to replace my Tombstalker with - some high impact spell at 4-6 mana that is not damnation (and I already run 4 cryptics), that provides an advantage... a mini Cruel Ultimatum if you will... I want that or I will just shift that slot to a third Auger of Bolas.
Remand in my head is a card that is 4 or 0 - if played, it needs to be a 4 of because of its value early game, and its lack there of in the late game. If it is replaced, whatever it is replaced with needs to draw cards - the deck is unique in that it works because most cards replace themselves, and removing 4 of those pieces - 4 of those self-replacing cards - without adding them, hurts the decks ability to filter through itself.
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Finally, I have been toying around with the idea of purchasing the deck on MODO and streaming games / uploading them to twitch.tv and youtube for both new and experienced players to learn, be entertained, and comment on its iterations... would there be interest in this? I was flipping through the 8-rack thread and saw that they have videos of the decks match-ups and I thought that was brilliant. Let me know what you think.
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Anyway, thanks for reading, and I look forward to reading responses.
Best,
Zachtraps
1 Blood Crypt
3 Cascade Bluffs
4 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Dreadship Reef
1 Drowned Catacomb
1 Lavaclaw Reaches
2 River of Tears
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Snow-Covered Island
1 Snow-Covered Mountain
1 Snow-Covered Swamp
2 Steam Vents
1 Sulfur Falls
2 Watery Grave
2 Augur of Bolas
2 Snapcaster Mage
1 Draining Whelk
Spells
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Serum Visions
3 Izzet Charm
4 Remand
3 Electrolyze
4 Cryptic Command
2 Damnation
2 Thoughtflare
2 Cruel Ultimatum
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Pithing Needle
1 Repeal
2 Rakdos Charm
2 Shadow of Doubt
3 Spellskite
2 Slaughter Games
2 Sowing Salt
Draining Whelk is my solution to my feeling like I am not doing enough / wasting time when keeping counter magic up but not finding a target. I played at my LGS on Modern Wednesday recently and will write a report when I get off work later. I would love to read thoughts in the mean time.
Best,
Zachtraps
Preferred Playstyle: control or tempo - basically not strict agro or strict combo
How Competitive: I want to be able to walk into an unknown FNM meta (which I will be doing when I move in about a month), and crush. Beyond that if I like the deck in paper I will likely build it on MODO to practice and play more competitively, but I dont need the flavor of the month tier 1 beast to be satisfied.
Favorite Cards/Colors:
Here is where it is interesting - From Cruel Control, I liked cards like electrolize, bolt, cryptic command, damnation, and the man lands. I hated cards like remand, and inquisition (more for the fact that it was a late game dud or awkward draw - I like my threats to be relevant at all points). I would like a suggestion in grixis, or even izzet (but mainly grixis) colors.
Budget: Not an issue
Staples Owned: Cruel Control staples (Scalding tarn, cryptic, snaps, shocks, damnation, etc.), Marsh Flats, Verdant Catacombs... basically while I likely have it, if I dont own it, I do not mind buying it over time.
My problem with Cruel Control is that it isnt doing enough (if that makes sense). I feel like some games I just get Cruel Ultimatum at the right time and go to town, and other games, I go 35 cards deep durdling, and lose games that should have been locked up 10 turns beforehand. So I would like a deck that does not have that problem (super clear, right? lol)
So I know that this is an awkward and counter to the norm style of submission, but gurus of "What Should I Play?"... What Should I Play?!
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Dark Confidant
2 Mirran Crusader
Spells
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Lingering Souls
3 Cabal Therapy
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Vindicate
Artifacts
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Batterskull
4 Liliana of the Veil
Lands
4 Wasteland
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Marsh Flats
4 Scrubland
1 Bayou
2 Swamp
2 Plains
1 Forest
3 Enlightened Tutor
2 Extripate
1 Pithing Needle
1 Circle of Protection: Red
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Life from the Loam
2 Rest in Peace
1 Engineered Plague
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Humility
*As to the question of why only 3 Dark Confidant - In this deck, I really am not looking to drop a bob as early as possible. I am Ok only seeing 1 per game, and don't necessarily need to have him in my opening hand (at least in my opinion / limited testing). When I have him in my starting 7, he usually comes in much further down the road, and I decided to increase the likelihood of a starting 7 more in line with what I was looking for and chance ripping Bob later, over drawing multiples of him that I just don't need.
I like how the deck runs at the moment, and am really happy to have finished building it just the way I like. However, I am having last minute second thoughts about my finisher of choice - Mirran Crusader, and my running the full 4 swords to plowshares and Lingering Souls. I am debating between any number of Hymn to Tourach, and as was mentioned earlier, Sin Collector, and was hoping to hear what yall thought considering my specific approach to the deck. I feel like Sin Collector's ability in conjunction with the equipment in the deck make him a good choice of finisher, as he works well with our overall theme (at least in my case) of agressive lockdown.
Thanks for taking the time to consider my variant! I am very pleased to finally be one of the community who has his version fully built and ready to play in events, and I look forward to reading your responses!
-Zach
In response to this, there are a few issues, the first of which is that most of what you listed (power 9, etc), correct me if I am wrong, is currently on the reserved list. This is not me coming from an entitled place, this is fact.
What makes cards that are not on the reserved list so special so that everyone should have access to them, is that implicit in not being on the reserved list is the expectation that the card can and will be reprinted. The reason you hear clamors for FoW more than Tabernacle is because it is played more, plain and simple.
I just posted a way to include it in a set so that it fits in design wise, could be a great gimic to sell packs, and would allow most people into the format, which seems to have addressed all of your concerns in the quoted post. Do you still have an issue if the reprint occurs like I described?
M14 is the 20th anniversary core set, and so there is already an expectation of something memorable occurring to mark the occasion.
So I would spoil the set like normal, with spoiled cards trickling in. However, 1-3 slots (FoW, X, Y) don't get spoiled. Then on the night of the banned/restricted list update, Fow, X, and Y are all banned in modern. Then the following morning they announce that the last 3 cards in the set are FoW, X, and Y!
This would do a few things.
1. Most importantly, it would keep FoW and friends out of modern where they would undoubtedly change the format (whether that is good or bad is not my place to argue).
2. It would introduce them into standard, where likely they will see fringe to moderate play - as there is no combo in standard, they aren't needed to stop the T1 wins, which means that their use (card disadvantage) allows aggro decks to rise to the top, forcing the meta out of force and into answers.
3. It would sell packs and boxes of core sets, which, while based on anecdotal evidence, seem to sell less than a normal expansion set, while lowering the price for legacy players.
In response to the argument that this would crash values - you are likely right, this would drop the card to around 30-40 dollars. However, the bad faith that this would garner from retailers like SSG, would likely be countered by an increase in sealed product sales. If you dont believe the ~$35 valuation, just look at rares like snapcaster, from one of the most heavily drafted sets, still sitting at ~$20.
The result of the printing would be incredible - old players might return to the game when they see familiar cards reprinted, new legacy players may enter the format, and pay admission to legacy SSG and TCGPlayer events where they would not have before because they couldn't play their favorite color because it was too expensive. Your hometown might even get a legacy scene of its own going.
TLDR; Print it in standard, while simultaneously banning it in modern to make everyone happy and more likely to crack packs to sell a core set that historically under-preforms relative to expansion sets.
I have a problem and it is land base building - I am feeling a little overwhelmed coming from mono-colored modern and standard decks, and was hoping to appeal to the community for some assistance. I plan on building the deck below baring the modification of 1 or 2 cards, and was wondering if anyone would be so kind as to point me in the right direction in terms of how to build a land base... How do you go about it, how do you determine which lands you want, how do you determine what kind of utility lands you want to use when you have Knight of the Reliquary in your deck... any information you can give is much appreciated. Without further adue, here is is!
4 Shardless Agent
3 Bloodbraid Elf
3 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Baleful Strix
2 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Ancestral Vision
4 Brainstorm
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Batterskull
1 Umazewa's Jitte
1 Sensei's Divining Top
Enchantments
1 Sylvan Library
This leaves a total of 21 (or 22 if we decide to cut the Sylvan Library) slots open for land. I know that I want to have at the very least 5 fetches, but do I want more if I have KotR? How do we go about building a base with the utility land search granted by KotR and to a lesser extent, Top? I have gone through other forum posts and have gotten ideas, but because I need to splash to have access to all 5 colors, I feel like I havent really found one that fits.
Anyway, thanks for all the help, and I look forward to reading and learning!
4 Nyxathid
4 Deathrite Shaman
Spells
4 Raven's Crime
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
4 Blightning
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Faithless Looting
3 Liliana of the Veil
Manlands
4 Lavaclaw Reaches
Lands
2 Sacred Foundry
3 Clifftop Retreat
3 Blood Crypt
2 Dragonskull Sumit
2 Godless Shrine
3 Isolated Chapel
2 Marsh Flats
2 Arid Mesa
1 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Mountain
This deck is a cross between reactive and proactive control. Turns 1-3 play out prety much as you would expect them to... Inquisition of Kozilek or Raven's Crime into burning away early threats until can you create a neutural board state with card-in-hand advantage.
Following the first few turns, the deck shifts into a burn lockdown style by turning extra lands into discard via Raven's Crime and any other draws into (with discard) unanswerable threats.
Issues I have been having:
-really I dont know if Deathrite Shaman truely fits this deck. On the one hand, it will always have fuel because of the ammount of discard, but on the other hand, he feals somewhat dead later on... I would love thoughts on what you might fill into his slot.
-I have very little way to interact with resolved artifacts or enchantments. Now one argument is that I would be dealing with them before they even hit the board with all of the discard, but on the other hand, I cant decide if that is truely valid.
What I have found is that most decks that have a heavy discard theme focus too heavily on it, at the expense of versitility, and end up being ineffective for their lack of ability to deal with resolved threats. I think what I have here is a large step in resolving that issue.
Anyway, I would love feedback - I plan on taking this to the LGS and eventually, fingers crossed, to larger tournaments. Everything you saw will be greatly appreciated.
Thank you very much for your suggestions - after implementing and goldfishing with the addition of some of the cards you guys mentioned, I am feeling much more comfortable with how the deck plays out in the early stages. The list at the moment is as follows:
4 Bloodbraid Elf
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Qasali Pridemage
2 Eternal Witness
Spells
4 Life from the Loam
4 Faithless Looting
3 Lightning Helix
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Seismic Assault
Lands
4 Arid Mesa
3 Clifftop Retreat
2 Sacred Foundry
2 Temple Garden
2 Stomping Ground
2 Fire-lit Thicket
2 Rugged Prairie
2 Wooded Bastion
2 Ghost Quarter
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Sejiri Steppe
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Plains
1 Forest
1 Mountain
Changes:
- 3 Countryside Crusher
+4 Qasali Pridemage
+2 Eternal Witness
+4 Lightning Bolt
-1 Lightning Helix
-2 Flame Jab
-2 Noxious Revival
-1 Worm Harvest
+1 Sejiri Steppe
+1 Bojuka Bog
-1 Kessig Wolf Run
-1 Clifftop Retreat
-1 Sacred Foundry
I feel that you were both right in your case made for Lightning Bolt, and it seemed the natural replacement for Jab and Harvest - I also feel like Pridemage and Witness provide me with more resiliance over what I had earlier so they went in, as did the Bog and Steppe. I reasoned that Countryside Crusher would be a mediocre mid game draw as I would need to go through the assault cycle to see value out of him, and whose spaces would be better allocated to the cards above. I removed him for that reason, and in his place stuffed the cards above.
I don't know (or at least didnt like) about putting Path to Exile in the deck because I felt like while a great card when it works, its drawback of giving my opponent a land (putting more pressure on me going off earlier) or cascading into it when there is no worthy target far outweighed its potential value.
As far as the sideboard goes, I have always love the concept of transformational sideboard, and realized that with the changes we just made, the deck looks similar enough to Big Naya to make the deck transform into it. The thinking is that my opponent will sideboard in graveyard and enchantment hate, which will then be blank against the deck that abuses neither (well maybe the gy slightly with knight, but thats what the pridemage is for - to remove spellbombs and the like). As a result, my rough sideboard looks like:
4x Steppe Lynx
4x Vexing Devil
3x Rancor
1x Lightning Helix
3x Path to Exile
Any thoughts? I fell like it puts enough early game pressure in a significantly different enough way to blank my opponents sideboard choices, and turning the game into aggro naya vs handicapped opponent.
Thanks for all of the suggestions so far!
4 Bloodbraid Elf
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Countryside Crusher
Spells
4 Life from the Loam
4 Faithless Looting
4 Lightning Helix
2 Flame Jab
2 Noxious Revival
1 Worm Harvest
4 Seismic Assault
Lands
4 Arid Mesa
4 Clifftop Retreat
3 Sacred Foundry
2 Temple Garden
2 Stomping Ground
2 Fire-lit Thicket
2 Rugged Prairie
2 Wooded Bastion
2 Ghost Quarter
2 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Plains
1 Forest
1 Mountain
Comments after reading through most of the thread:
While I have a fewer number of creatures than the rough lists of some of my fellow posters on this thread, my reasoning behind that choice, is that I want to preserve the multiple avenues to victory that the BRG version touts, while still remaining in these colors and the potential to develop large creatures if left unchecked.
My thinking with this list is that I want to be hitting them from multiple angles - Bloodbraid Elf cascaded into anything is a good value with the dorks removed, and as a result of not having those dorks / non essential (arguably) pieces, is that the loam assault burn interaction is still abused to its fullest.
Idea:
My contribution to the think tank is this - has anyone attempted to brew a list that uses almost exclusively man lands along side the loam engine? In my head it could be effective to swing in with Mishra's Factory and make your opponent choose between 2 to the face, blocking the 2 and trading, or blocking the 2 and giving fodder to the assault loam engine.
Anyway, I would love to hear any comments that y'all might have