Iso’s speculation sounds like the that thing where you have inside info and try to pass it off as your own lol. It’s probably right but also very specific.
I’ll say this again, no one (Wuffles apparently) should be popping the potion unless they actually are under threat of lynch, or it’s one day before LyLo. It’s just not optimal play.
is rather have a mechanical clear than a nebulous item floating around
These are objectively correct thoughts.
you scum read dota? what post was this???
I did list him on the bottom of my t/s list yesterDay but he’d been bugging me from very early on. If KJ turns out to be scum too this game I’ll be ecstatic
I’ll say this again, no one (Wuffles apparently) should be popping the potion unless they actually are under threat of lynch, or it’s one day before LyLo. It’s just not optimal play.
is rather have a mechanical clear than a nebulous item floating around
Actually I’m feeling some pressure to not be replaced out, so before I start doing anything else I’m going to start with my readslist as it is right now.
Terry - He’s town lol
Grape I see some people discussing grape like his alignment is up in the air, and I’m honestly surprised he’s not a consensus townread by now. I mean if you look at the raw STATS, he’s the highest poster in this game by a really wide margin (especially if you don’t count Tom), in comparison he almost has the same number of posts as he did in the pirates game despite the thread being half as long. Literally none of his posts have been fluff either. I don’t see him as capable of maintaining this level of engagement as scum, especially when he has admitted he has a hard time keeping up with content as scum. Basically, he’s obvtown because he’s putting in more effort than you.
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RE - This town lean is a carryover from when she was Shinichi. I know she’s willing to communicate and work together as town and her posts are more coherent than her predecessors overall so that’s probably a good thing.
Silver - Just want to say the string of posts where he defends me was very amusing to read. I don’t want to townread him off of just white knighting me, but I have to question what he gains from doing that as scum when I wasn’t even in the thread, plus the way he posted sounded like he still wanted to keep up communication with those he was disagreeing with. I like where his head is so it’s a town lean from me.
Worth noting at least that grapefruit expressed some suspicion of this slot when yurkin was piloting it, noting to myself to look into for later. If both silver and grape are town and on the same page it could be very productive for us.
Rhand - Carryover from before.
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Iso - I was townleaning him for his bravado but apparently people have been saying this is something he does as scum ? If so that invalidates my reason for reading him so he’s null to me now and I’ll have to figure out a new way to get a grasp of his alignment.
Phraze - I tried to read her, I really did, but I can’t point to any of her behavior as anything she wouldn’t do as town. She probably is just town but I don’t want to just write her slot off.
Last - Last has the potential to be very engaged in his games and I’m not seeing it here. He did say he was busy until after this weekend but if he keeps up his current level it would be uncharacteristic of what I normally see from him. We’ll have to see if he steps it up.
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Killjoy - I did an ISO to see everything he posted in the week I was gone. He LITERALLY still hasn’t expressed a single new read, the closest he got was saying there could be scum among me/grape who were pushing him but he’s been entirely fixated on defending himself and hasn’t contributed anything to gamesolving. He seems to be missing the point too that the reason he’s suspicious is his lack of real reads other than that arbitrary one on last and he sounds like he’s just doubling down on that. Anyone who hasn’t already should take a look at his ISO and tell me if you see anything different.
Proph - Yeah I lean scum on him, to put it bluntly his catchup post was nice, but a post like that is something he’s capable of doing as scum, what’s a lot harder for him is getting actively engaged since he plays this game to be town. I actually wasn’t a fan of the townread he expressed of me in his post, I feel like I’m very easy for scum!proph to find reasons to townread because we have similar ideas of how to approach games. However in my memory proph as town usually grills me in the games we play together, and he grills me hard.
Also yes I know he is justifiably busy but as I said, nowadays most of his game he plays as busy!proph and town!busy!proph usually does post a lot more than this. I switched my vote because not only because he could be scum but also if he is town, he’s too valuable of a resource to let him get by like this. Call it burden of proph-iciency if you will.
Dota - He had good presence early on but then when you go back to read him almost all of his points were about mechanics and he hasn’t said anything since then. It seems kind of indicative to me of a stronger town player who has difficulty getting their head into the game as scum. Would like to pressure this slot to say more.
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Anyone I didn’t list I need to pay attention to / interact with more. I’m aware that’s a lot of people but hey I have been mia for a week.
Any questions you wanna ask me please ask, I could use the help in getting re-engaged in this game. Next steps for me are to respond to specific things people pinged me about earlier and to find stuff to ask my top town / scum reads.
Togs I did a pretty deep meta dive on dawning during pirates, including reading (two?) scumgames
It didn't help at all
Fwiw
Quote from DBS »
you didn't notice his read on Iso? if his singular focus this game was townreading Last, then I would agree.
”Read” on Iso, iirc KJ stated he wanted to townread Iso for not going for him but I got the sense he was half jokey. And.. that’s it. You listed that because that’s the only thing resembling a read you could have listed.
I wouldn’t say KJ has had a singular focus on Last, it’s more like he hasn’t even had a focus and that Last read is all he’s got.
I was scum in 2 games you hosted. are you playing coy?
Damn you revealed my deep dark secret that I don’t always read my games
you've not explained your reads and sheeped opinions on Killjoy, so my disagreement should be expected. I don't remember us having opposite views of the gamestate as town before, the only time we had a disagreement was when you copped me with an insane result.
I didn't ask you to do the work for me, but it looks like a rehash of what I said ("point out the post to me if you want to talk about it"). anyways, you haven't had a strong presence, so yes I'm not aware of the cases on you.
Ok like.. my presence has nothing to do with the presence of all the people voting me, which since I’m the biggest wagon, should be relevant because it’s literally larger than anyone else’s. I know you’re a busy person but cmon, please be willing to look up a couple posts for the sake of conversing with me. I wouldn’t mind pulling up the posts myself if I wanted to point your attention to them, but I seriously think you haven’t read them in the first place and I think you could benefit from doing so.
haven't seen the other cases on you yet, but I will soon enough.
Part of why I asked you about the other cases on me was to see if you were even paying attention to that. Presumably you would want to if you’re pushing a case on someone, but your answer strikes me of being unaware of the gamestate right now, since I have the unique position in it right now of being the guy with the most votes. I do want to hear your opinions on this and I won’t do the legwork for you.
Yes yes, I just reread it and saw the loss of a vote, I’m an idiot, disregard.
@Atog: I am unimpressed because your posts feel skeletal; there’s no meat to them.
Okay I honestly get what you mean, I have mainly been shooting questions at players I’m unsure about and haven’t had the opportunity to push any case except KJ’s, maybe. But with the state of the game right now, I look at many of the players and feel like I need to see more from them to get anywhere. Yes other players have been making pushes but most of these I want to see a response first or I just disagree with. Right now what I think this game needs is for more discussions to form between the players and that’s what I’m trying to get started right now, because it honestly feels really slow.
And yeah I don’t really think you can tout being much “meatier” than I am either.
Who do you know best in this playerbase? Who do you have the highest confidence in reading correctly in this playerbase?
Prophylaxis, I’ve played with him for many years across many sites. My read on him right now is nullish and kind of suspicious he could be scum, because I know that his scum meta is disinterest with the game. His posting this game hasn’t been up to his usual par, and I know he’s busy but I usually see busy!proph manage to do more than this. But he’s V/LA until tomorrow night so I’m waiting until then to try to get him to interact.
As far as my response to dawning, I’ll be frank, I’m not a fan of her play style, and while I replied to her a bit, I straight up ignored her save for things directed at me (as far as I remember) for my own sanity. My thoughts on her are: ask again later. I’ve lynched her or tried to in I think all the games we’ve been in. She’s been town every time.
That does match up with my experiences playing with her lol. Thanks for the honest answer.
@Atog: What’s your preferred alignment?
I actually liked this question from you, is it one you ask a lot ? And which alignment do you prefer ?
Quote from DBS »
fine then. I have a somewhat strong townlean on Killjoy for being unreserved in his posts, like reads on someone(Last) who's obviously easy to read. I'm not sure about Grapes, but it's somewhere towards negative - still trying to get his ideology and clarifications for his actions.
You say “like reads on Last” like you’re giving an example, but you do realize that’s his only stated read in the thread so far right ? I don’t think Grape nor I would care so much about this read feeling forced if he was making plenty of others as well.
But arrhh, I know you and I never see eye to eye as t/t so I don’t really know what to make of this logic.
@Shinichi @Lastwhisper You guys have experiences playing with Phraze as scum right ? How does her scum play look like ?
I'm not sure how many is on your wagon atm, but I find you suspicious for the reason I've addressed. saw your readlist and disagreed with it enough to vote you. still waiting for Rhand (and maybe you) to explain what makes it a bad vote. haven't seen the other cases on you yet, but I will soon enough.
Why does disagreeing with my reads make me scum ? I’m certain you’ve played town games with me before where we had opposite views of the game state and I’m sure that can’t be an uncommon occurrence for you.
sheeping is generally not helpful because you're not giving us your thoughts. it's fine if both come up with similar observations, but explain just the same as the other person. how can we understand your thought processes if you just sheep? sheeping something and contributing another thing still doesn't excuse sheeping.
Again this is more of a mafia theory thing so not really relevant, but I think of Mafia as primarily a team game instead of individual. You are a lot more likely to solve the game when you take in everyone else’s opinions and not just your town, and a natural part of sharing reads is trying to convince others to sheep them. Why would you even post your reads if you weren’t trying to sway other members of the town ?
I really like the idea of having the truth potion passed from person to person until lylo, I think that’s actually a really clever idea.
I’m continually unimpressed by Atog.
@Atog: What’s your preferred alignment?
@Rhand: wrt the tommy gun, probably. Obviously there are advantages to forcing its use as a second lynch, with the threat of auction number mass claim if the person doesn’t comply, but that also takes the responsibility of the shot away from the shooter.
Actually the way it’s worded is unclear whether the shot is public or private, hmm. @Mod: is using the Tommy gun public?
Yes it’s a nice idea but as posted above that doesn’t work because it loses town a vote.
What does unimpressed mean here ? I’m down for talking with you so shoot me some better questions if you have them.
I prefer being town to being scum by a very incredibly wide margin.
You haven’t really reacted to DBS since her early vote on you. What’s your opinion on her in the last few pages ?
Vote: Atogaholic
don't remember he pushed Killjoy by himself. if anything, it seems built on Grape's reasoning.
You do realize that Grape literally followed my reasoning on KJ right ? If you don't remember, you can check with this handy "ISO" function.
not really. point out the post to me if you want to talk about it. asking me to look for it is just dodging.
Actually I won’t just yet, because it’s amusing to be voted for something factually incorrect and I want to take this opportunity to get into your headspace.
Since your vote on me predicates on me sheeping Grape on a case on KJ, what are your reads on Grape and KJ ?
I think I’m the biggest wagon atm, and if you’re hopping on it, what is your opinion on all the other cases on me ?
Vote: Atogaholic
don't remember he pushed Killjoy by himself. if anything, it seems built on Grape's reasoning.
wow. talk about a bad reason to vote someone.
vote dawningbluesky
explain to me what makes it bad. I have given my reasons for voting him, but you're voting me because I voted someone with a given reason that you do not agree with. isn't that roundabout OMGUS?
There’s nothing wrong with following someone else’s push if you agree with it. If all town needs to come up woth original reasoning to lynch someone, no one would ever get lynched.
it is a problem, and you call it "sheeping".
it appears that Atog claims to have pushed Killjoy first(?) isn't that just shading and waiting for someone else to do the work? I only remember Grape's push as something substantial, while Atog just chimed in 2nd. looks like he doesn't have any thoughts of his own to add to the case.
it still doesn't explain why you decided to vote me though. unless you can point out what in the above paragraph is bad.
This is more a mafia philosophy thing but yes I agree with Rhand that there’s nothing wrong with sheeping another player’s thoughts, it’s only scummy when you just sheep everyone and don’t contribute anything yourself.
Ah... I apologize, it seems I've misunderstood the auction's rules somewhat. I thought the auction for today would close before the end of the day itself; but I was wrong.
Thus the objects cannot be used today at all. Noted.
I dislike Number 77's immediate bid for the potion of truth, given these discussions. Let the record stand that I am not 77. I am tempted to suggest that no one else should bid on the potion, and we should demand that 77 drinks it and reveals themselves as soon as possible.
Hm okay I didn't realize the items didn't work D1 either. Is it technically possible to pass items to other players, like sell for 0 gold or something ? I do think it's the best item available and we should pressure someone to use it if they're heading for a lynch D2.
Here’s where my head is at right now. Too many people in that null pile though : / And maybe I haven’t played on mtgs in a while but this game feels way slower than normal. I have some free time so gonna try to think of some questions to engage with these people.
I did list him on the bottom of my t/s list yesterDay but he’d been bugging me from very early on. If KJ turns out to be scum too this game I’ll be ecstatic
These are objectively correct thoughts.
Terry - He’s town lol
Grape I see some people discussing grape like his alignment is up in the air, and I’m honestly surprised he’s not a consensus townread by now. I mean if you look at the raw STATS, he’s the highest poster in this game by a really wide margin (especially if you don’t count Tom), in comparison he almost has the same number of posts as he did in the pirates game despite the thread being half as long. Literally none of his posts have been fluff either. I don’t see him as capable of maintaining this level of engagement as scum, especially when he has admitted he has a hard time keeping up with content as scum. Basically, he’s obvtown because he’s putting in more effort than you.
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RE - This town lean is a carryover from when she was Shinichi. I know she’s willing to communicate and work together as town and her posts are more coherent than her predecessors overall so that’s probably a good thing.
Silver - Just want to say the string of posts where he defends me was very amusing to read. I don’t want to townread him off of just white knighting me, but I have to question what he gains from doing that as scum when I wasn’t even in the thread, plus the way he posted sounded like he still wanted to keep up communication with those he was disagreeing with. I like where his head is so it’s a town lean from me.
Worth noting at least that grapefruit expressed some suspicion of this slot when yurkin was piloting it, noting to myself to look into for later. If both silver and grape are town and on the same page it could be very productive for us.
Rhand - Carryover from before.
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Iso - I was townleaning him for his bravado but apparently people have been saying this is something he does as scum ? If so that invalidates my reason for reading him so he’s null to me now and I’ll have to figure out a new way to get a grasp of his alignment.
Phraze - I tried to read her, I really did, but I can’t point to any of her behavior as anything she wouldn’t do as town. She probably is just town but I don’t want to just write her slot off.
Last - Last has the potential to be very engaged in his games and I’m not seeing it here. He did say he was busy until after this weekend but if he keeps up his current level it would be uncharacteristic of what I normally see from him. We’ll have to see if he steps it up.
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Killjoy - I did an ISO to see everything he posted in the week I was gone. He LITERALLY still hasn’t expressed a single new read, the closest he got was saying there could be scum among me/grape who were pushing him but he’s been entirely fixated on defending himself and hasn’t contributed anything to gamesolving. He seems to be missing the point too that the reason he’s suspicious is his lack of real reads other than that arbitrary one on last and he sounds like he’s just doubling down on that. Anyone who hasn’t already should take a look at his ISO and tell me if you see anything different.
Proph - Yeah I lean scum on him, to put it bluntly his catchup post was nice, but a post like that is something he’s capable of doing as scum, what’s a lot harder for him is getting actively engaged since he plays this game to be town. I actually wasn’t a fan of the townread he expressed of me in his post, I feel like I’m very easy for scum!proph to find reasons to townread because we have similar ideas of how to approach games. However in my memory proph as town usually grills me in the games we play together, and he grills me hard.
Also yes I know he is justifiably busy but as I said, nowadays most of his game he plays as busy!proph and town!busy!proph usually does post a lot more than this. I switched my vote because not only because he could be scum but also if he is town, he’s too valuable of a resource to let him get by like this. Call it burden of proph-iciency if you will.
Dota - He had good presence early on but then when you go back to read him almost all of his points were about mechanics and he hasn’t said anything since then. It seems kind of indicative to me of a stronger town player who has difficulty getting their head into the game as scum. Would like to pressure this slot to say more.
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Anyone I didn’t list I need to pay attention to / interact with more. I’m aware that’s a lot of people but hey I have been mia for a week.
Any questions you wanna ask me please ask, I could use the help in getting re-engaged in this game. Next steps for me are to respond to specific things people pinged me about earlier and to find stuff to ask my top town / scum reads.
##unvote, vote Prophylaxis
@Mods Can we get an updated votecount please ?
”Read” on Iso, iirc KJ stated he wanted to townread Iso for not going for him but I got the sense he was half jokey. And.. that’s it. You listed that because that’s the only thing resembling a read you could have listed.
I wouldn’t say KJ has had a singular focus on Last, it’s more like he hasn’t even had a focus and that Last read is all he’s got.
Damn you revealed my deep dark secret that I don’t always read my games
Ok like.. my presence has nothing to do with the presence of all the people voting me, which since I’m the biggest wagon, should be relevant because it’s literally larger than anyone else’s. I know you’re a busy person but cmon, please be willing to look up a couple posts for the sake of conversing with me. I wouldn’t mind pulling up the posts myself if I wanted to point your attention to them, but I seriously think you haven’t read them in the first place and I think you could benefit from doing so.
And yeah I don’t really think you can tout being much “meatier” than I am either.
Prophylaxis, I’ve played with him for many years across many sites. My read on him right now is nullish and kind of suspicious he could be scum, because I know that his scum meta is disinterest with the game. His posting this game hasn’t been up to his usual par, and I know he’s busy but I usually see busy!proph manage to do more than this. But he’s V/LA until tomorrow night so I’m waiting until then to try to get him to interact.
That does match up with my experiences playing with her lol. Thanks for the honest answer.
I actually liked this question from you, is it one you ask a lot ? And which alignment do you prefer ?
You say “like reads on Last” like you’re giving an example, but you do realize that’s his only stated read in the thread so far right ? I don’t think Grape nor I would care so much about this read feeling forced if he was making plenty of others as well.
But arrhh, I know you and I never see eye to eye as t/t so I don’t really know what to make of this logic.
@Shinichi @Lastwhisper You guys have experiences playing with Phraze as scum right ? How does her scum play look like ?
Why does disagreeing with my reads make me scum ? I’m certain you’ve played town games with me before where we had opposite views of the game state and I’m sure that can’t be an uncommon occurrence for you.
Again this is more of a mafia theory thing so not really relevant, but I think of Mafia as primarily a team game instead of individual. You are a lot more likely to solve the game when you take in everyone else’s opinions and not just your town, and a natural part of sharing reads is trying to convince others to sheep them. Why would you even post your reads if you weren’t trying to sway other members of the town ?
What does unimpressed mean here ? I’m down for talking with you so shoot me some better questions if you have them.
I prefer being town to being scum by a very incredibly wide margin.
You haven’t really reacted to DBS since her early vote on you. What’s your opinion on her in the last few pages ?
Since your vote on me predicates on me sheeping Grape on a case on KJ, what are your reads on Grape and KJ ?
I think I’m the biggest wagon atm, and if you’re hopping on it, what is your opinion on all the other cases on me ?
This is more a mafia philosophy thing but yes I agree with Rhand that there’s nothing wrong with sheeping another player’s thoughts, it’s only scummy when you just sheep everyone and don’t contribute anything yourself.
See #366
You do realize that Grape literally followed my reasoning on KJ right ? If you don't remember, you can check with this handy "ISO" function.
Shinichi
Grapefruit21
Iso
Rhand
KamikazeArchon
shadowlancerx
Lastwhisper
Cantripmancer
Prophylaxis
Cyan
Dawningbluesky
DoTArchon
Gwendolly
Tom
Yurkin
vezokpiraka
Killjoy
Here’s where my head is at right now. Too many people in that null pile though : / And maybe I haven’t played on mtgs in a while but this game feels way slower than normal. I have some free time so gonna try to think of some questions to engage with these people.