Looks good but I would try -1 Inquisition, -1 Aristocrat for 2 Boros Charms. Honestly think you don't need 4 Aristocrats. Seeing and getting one to stick should be easy enough and this ups the spell count too. It's great for combat tricks, gives you the extra reach late game and the potential of a huge blow out with an Aristocrat in play.
A sword could work in the deck too, as you would pretty much always have a body to hold it.
Will add Rain of Tears when I update again. I forgot to add it. I haven't updated it with the new suggestions and all. I've seen it being mentioned. Will need to update it again soon with more suggestions and lists.
NessOnett: I like the direction your deck is going, with an all-in LD plan. I'm sure we can improve on it than it is currently so good luck with your testing and all. I haven't had much luck with the all-in approach but glad you're able to do well.
And yeah, Smallpox is really great in the format. Especially if you can take advantage of it. Been trying to do so. I haven't had great results with my current list of semi-LD in the past weeks though. Lots of 1-2 finishes and even a 0-3.
Most matchups are pretty decent. Pretty much against every deck I played, I manage to take control but couldn't finish up the game before they stabilised and started playing more lands.
Inquisition of Kozilek has been way better than Blackmail. Though it could get lands sometimes, most times there are other relevant things to remove. And Inquisiton reveals the whole hand rather than just 3 cards.
Games only go "well" when you have some LD in your starting hand. Especially Smallpox. Without it, most times I won't be able to slow them down enough to take over with the walkers. And at some point, it will be a really long grind till I manage to draw Blood Baron or Batterskull. In some games, by the time that happens, they would have had enough time to recover from all the LD. Might have to take this in another direction as Planeswalkers seem too slow. Many decks can effectively recover after some LD.
Young Pyromancer might just be the card we need. Getting one to stick will mean that each LD spell would at least net you a creature. I will have to look into this.
I don't remember exactly what happened, but he had 2 Confidants on board at one time and that totally got me outplayed. The current deck build lacks card draw/advantage. I've been trying a single Mikokoro, Center of the Sea for draw but most times I hate seeing it in my opening hand. Colours are tight.
I haven't been too sure about Leyline of Sanctity since I haven't played against burn. But with Helix, Ajani, removals and discards, I would think that burn should be a decent match up. Discard hurts, but it's not worth the slot to play 4. For example, I'd rather let them discard a smallpox than have a Leyline (or draw into one) to stop it.
Usually my hand would be empty by turn 5 or 6? Unless I have a ton of lands and nothing to play or a couple of Planeswalkers. I've thought about Ensnaring Bridge a lot but I feel that it will slow down my own clock to finish off the opponent before he recovers from the LD. Which is also why I play burns over Wraths main. I opted to play Elspeth, Knight-Errant over it to quicken the clock when I have control. Can't have both Elspeth and Bridge in the same deck.
Updated the opening post with more stuff. Hope it looks better now.
@kylar: NessOnett is right, that deck has flaws... too many. We're trying to build something competitive here.
@NessOnett: Your Ponza deck looks good. How has the Phoenix and Koth been performing? They don't seem that necessary and helping the game plan. Was it always worth it to have the 4 Spirit Guides and Crack the Earth? I mean, how often have you gotten those 2 in your starting hand AND playing second (for maximum timewalk)? However, the Guides would help with getting an early Trinisphere too so that's good. Will give this a try once I can figure out what to change for it. Looks good.
Been getting some testing done with this list below.
Been trying a different approach, dropping blue altogether and trying to abuse Smallpox. Wonderful card, coupled with some discard. Most recent results was from an FNM, with a 2-1 score.
Deck simply plays to clear some lands and beatdown once you're in control with some tokens.
Game 1: Storm (2-1 Win)
Relic plays a big part in this and the LD hurts storm a ton before they can go off. A Smallpox after they've dropped Goblin Electromancer is back-breaking.
Game 2: Jund (0-2 Loss)
Wrath and Relic comes in these games. Just keep that Dark Confidant out of the way. Goyf and Ooze can be easily dealt with. In one game, I managed to keep him on 1 land till turn 4 or 5 but didn't have enough removal for Confidant and he just managed to get back the lands slowly. Confidant has to go. The advantage is insane.
Game 3: UWR (2-0 Win)
Felt like a pretty easy win. Just kept him off the red/blue mana and played around the counters. Save up the burn to finish him off.
Recent testing results shows some promises so I will be testing this further, tweaking some cards here and there. Have found that Inquisiton of Kozilek might be a better choice or even Thoughtseize over Blackmail to scan their hand and know what lands to remove but Blackmail has managed to keep them off lands at some point as well. Maybe a mix. Blackmail is a way better topdeck.
Flagstones can now provide 2 white mana instead of 1. It's even better now. And it's a great Boom target as well.
Tap the one in play for w, play the new one and sacrifice the one in play, tap the new one for w. Compared to previously, tap the one in play and when the second comes into play, they both go in the yard.
Okay, I can understand that. I'm still confused by a lot of the lists on this thread that seem to be content running 4 sedge sliver with only a single blood crypt as a black mana source. At best you can only regenerate one guy with it, which has to be the sedge sliver whenever removal comes around, otherwise you're in exactly the same place with regard to your board as if you weren't running the sliver at all. you're basically splashing two additional colors in order to run a lord that says, "if this survives to your next turn, draw a card." Unless I can find a better reason to take a lot more damage from my manabase, I'm not sure it's worth it.
Yeah, I've been wondering the same thing. With only 1 black source, it's not worth it. Here's my current build I posted a few pages back. I opted to play City of Brass over Cavern of Souls for the sole purpose of being able to generate black for Sedge. I also have Overgrown Tomb and Blood Crypt. Damage wise, with an Aether Vial in play, I can avoid tapping City of Brass unless you really need to. Darkheart Sliver and Helix helps to offset the life loss.
But being able to fit Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth will help a lot. But the mana base is tight as it is. Will be hard to squeeze it in. Gotta drop the Mutavaults probably.
With regards to the Homing Sliver build, I've thought about it but I think Wish is more versatile and consistent. I definitely won't be drawing random 1-ofs that might not be useful for the current situation or my opening hand, which was what JPoJohnson was trying to say. I can simply look for what i need. Granted I only have 4 Wishes as compared to having X Slivers in hand. But I'm glad to see someone making it work.
No, I've been thinking the same thing. I don't know if its worth the trouble to run Sedge.
If you have played with Sedge Silver and have access to black, you'll know that it's a house. You wanna be aggressive, and you wanna have resilience. Sedge gives both. Once you untap with Sedge on board, aside from Path, they will have a huge problem. Not having lots of black mana still allows you to recover from a "sweep" quicker. Granted, the mana base will be slightly more wonky, but I believe it's a risk worth taking, like for typical Zoo decks. More so in a meta lacking of Wrath of Gods and Damnations (most control players are playing Supreme Verdict too).
Those who have played slivers back in the Time Spiral block, I'm sure you guys can vouch.
Glad to see some people still interested in this. I've still been working on a couple of different lists like these all the while. And there have been other ideas and cards found and all of that so I will update the opening post soon with major updates and test findings over the last few months.
Most recent list posted by Infowarrior is something similar to what I've been testing so stay tuned! Will address the recent posts with questions when I can while I'm at it.
Firstly, thanks JPo, for getting my list in the OP. But do update it with my current one in this post. It's my best one yet, I think. Now on to some discussion... Some things to address.
Great find on Domri Rade! It's the kind of card we need generate some CA. There's really no way for us to draw cards and Domri seems great.
Tribal Flames is great, but the utilty from Boros Charm and life gain from Lightning Helix makes them the more preferred choice. Especially with the amounts of shocks and fetches, the life gain will really help. Legion's Initative has caught my attention too. But again, I'd rather have Boros Charm for the same reasons above. Food for thought though.
I feel like all that does is create a deck that is essentially a weaker version of Merfolk (since it has a more fragile and demanding manabase).
I like the versatility in the various sliver that you can get personally.
Yeah, that's all I've been thinking about when trying to get a list I'm happy with. I've been comparing it with Merfolk since they both play similarly. And yes, the versatility is what makes it more appealing than Merfolk's straight-forward plan. I'm trying to incorporate both into one deck as of now.
Not sure if anyone else mentioned this yet, but Mirrorweaving your Sinew Sliver (not Predatory Sliver) after blockers have been declared (none hopefully, courtesy of evasion) is pretty brutal if your opponent has a bunch of creatures themselves. You turn all their guys into lords for your guys.
Mirroweave is interesting. If you put it that way, you could definitely end the game right there. That's a sweet interaction. But is it worth including? I mean, if you get to the point where you have a couple lords in play and are beating face, you are most probably ahead on board control. But I guess it's great for just going "oops, I win". Let us know how that works out. Are you always happy drawing it in hand, or have you had wished it was something else?
Is Frenetic Sliver too cute? He basically makes all removal 50% less effective. Including Wrath of God.
Yeah man, this is Modern's two-bit Crystalline Sliver. I've thought about including it in my build but he 3 cmc makes it a turn-off for the more aggressive builds though (mine). Might be good to split 2-2, 3-1, or 1-3 with Sedge Sliver. But yeah, it's hella good, not cute. Just that, I'd rather have Sedge who works as a lord as well and the creature base is tight as hell as it is. Which brings me to a build I've just recently thought of and currently working on...
Glittering Wish is exactly what I think we're looking for. Gives us the choice of what to get, when we need it. The downside, is that this slows down our clock by a turn, but at the same time, it helps us deal with threats right away. Furthermore, with a vial in play, it'll be all right to leave mana open for casting it EOT.
The main deck shell is similar to my previous build but I opted to drop the Sidewinder Sliver for Two-Headed Sliver. I'm following a similar shell of Merfolk where they have 8 evasion enablers, so I upped this to 7. I have a soft spot for Spellskite as well, and it has never failed me once. So 2 of them, coupled with the Sedges, should give us just enough resiliency. Phantasmal Image has been a house as well, as some others has echoed. Very useful. Initially wanted to play 3 of them, but some sacrifices had to be made. Overall, I'm very satisfied with the main deck currently. I feel there's nothing I wanna change, apart from tweaking the numbers of each sliver.
The mana base, which I'm sure can still be worked on till it's perfect, is my only gripe for now. But like any zoo deck, the mana is janky and getting mana screwed sucks. That's my main reason of including City of Brass over Cavern of Souls. No choice but to do so to be able to reliably cast our non-creature spells.
As for the wishboard, that's all I can come up with at the moment. I skipped Opaline Sliver as I prefer Domri Rade. Cautery Sliver was skipped as well as it doesn't do much. Apart from these two, I don't think there are any other Slivers that are worth the utility. Unless I missed something?
So you're running rainbow slivers, eh? I came on to say Sedge Sliver without a doubt over Adaptive, but I'm not too sure about that anymore since the black splash would be solely for his activated ability to regenerate. I think that you're trying to fit too much of the sliver package into a deck AND try to make it competitive. I think a corner needs to be cut somewhere.
Here is a list of possible places to cut:
1. Sidewinder Sliver is very lacklust since it is basically a sub-optimal lord that only works when blocked. Meh.
2. Phantasmal Image does nothing on its own, especially with the new Legendary rulings. Meh.
3. Adaptive. Dislike. Doesn't add anything beyond a bit of power and I think that pumping up muscles and trying to bash face only works with explosive speed such as with Gruul aggro. I would take the Sedge since that regenerate is house against quite a bit of removal and board wipes that are popular in the format right now.
4. Path is fantastic removal, however you're going to need to figure out if you want to go for a quick early domination or you want to go for the grindy game. If you're going for quick board control and big threats, Lightning is going to seal the deal, if you're not, then it'll be not nearly as useful. I think the removal spells need some tweaking and looking at.
So basically:
- Sidewinder is bad
- Phantasmal is better in merfolk, lackluster in slivers
- Sedge > Adaptive
- Work out the removal.
Overall though, I think you have a good base to go off of (:
In regards to other lands, I would say probably 8 Fetches would be a good include.
Sidewinders are in the flex slot, definitely. Couldn't really find anything else. Gotta keep the curve low at 20 lands and our only evasive option is Flying, so the Flanking would definitely help against spirit tokens and such. They will help against Goyfs while our Slivers can't fly as well. Like Merfolk, Vials are expected to remain at 2 for combat tricks and such.
I'd pick Sedge myself, but due to the mana base, I'm having second thoughts. Still gonna go with Sedge though. Don't forget, it's a lord as well. Not only meant for regeneration.
Phantasmal Image can either act as another lord or an 'out' to legendary creatures. Copying a Geist or Clique still has its benefits. The new legend rule doesn't necessarily make Image worse. I've played with image with the new rule. Why is it only better in Merfolk? It serves the same purpose here too.
As for your point on the removal package, it really depends on the board state and who's on the draw or play and what you're up against. The game plan remains the same regardless. Having a vial in play helps with this a lot. If I'm on the play, I'd want to get my creatures out early. If not, I'll probably want to remove some stuff first. But yeah, it needs more testing.
And with City of Brass (maybe?), Fetches and Shocks, I think Helix is a must have. Maybe Syphon Sliver to replace Sidewinder as well.
Merfolk player here. Been looking into Slivers myself after the green sliver lord was spoiled.
About Merfolk, we have two Islandwalk enablers (more with image) so that's at least 8 creatures that enable our evasion. While we might have to rely on Spreading Seas in some matchups, we have a bit more 'resilience' when it comes to removal of our evasion enablers. Seas are unlikely to be removed as well, especially game 1.
In Slivers case, once or if the flying enabler gets removed, you might have some trouble from chump blockers slowing your clock. And Flying creatures are still blockable too. But the lords will pump enough I guess.
Works very similarly to Merfolk and I've been brewing something along the same lines. Similar to my Merfolk shell.
Spellskite has been fantastic for protecting our creatures and I opted to play bolts and helixes for reach to race rather than be reactive with counters. But this list is really lacking in CA.
As for Sedge Sliver vs Adaptive Automaton, Sedge Sliver is a lot better and preferred of course. But we'll really have to work on a strong mana base that can support it. With it and Spellskite, the slivers will be very hard to remove so this is my current base of the deck. Just need to get the mana base right and consistent.
I really don't think double white is hard by turn 4, especially since 18/23 lands can get white. Wrath seems good, but maybe too slow. This is something I have considered, but I figure the Bolts and Helixs can take care of early game threats, where Wrath can reset the board regardless of how big a Goyf or anything else is. Etched Champion is another big reason why I would use Wrath over burn based sweepers.
Delver and Figure went in as I was pondering what other finishers besides Frost Titan I could run. Nothing else really jumped at me, but I am open to other suggestions. Steppe Lynx could be fun if I dropped a second Flagstones. I run enough fetches to make them worth while too, but at that point I might as well just run a typical URW Delver build.
I could go with basics, and usually try to fit a few in for those Paths that seem to show in every deck with white. Blood Moon isn't a huge threat, as there is only 1 established deck that I know of that runs it (RUG Delver).
Thanks for the input
FYI: Bloodbraid does nothing with Restoration Angel. You have to cast BBE to trigger the cascade, and that doesn't happen as an EtB effect.
When I mentioned about hitting WW, I was assuming we'd be changing the mana base to have lesser shocklands, but if it remains that way, then yeah I guess hitting WW and RR early isn't a problem. But is it really worth taking all that damage just for the Wrath? The format is aggressively fast and all that damage might hurt you too much.
For the Affinity matchup, I believe by the time you could wrath the Etched Champion away anyway, you'd probably be in burn range already. Wrath really might be too slow for it. But there isn't much choice for sweepers like that. Maybe Porphyry Nodes would be better. As for finishers, I agree we need more but that many creatures as 'finishers' might be too much.
And I was led to believe that Cascade works after reading the suggestion of Restoration Angel. Yep, doesn't work. The angel totally has no place here then.
While my deck is not perfect, or even well tuned (I don't spend too much time testing it), I think your assessment of BBE is incorrect. A well tuned and well built deck running BBE will have card quality that is high enough that no matter what you flip you are harming your opponent's board position. Look at Jund- there are some ideal flips, but all others are still good. It is CA and tempo all in one package.
Okay man, here's the thing. I'm not personally attacking your deck or anything. But look at a typical Jund list. BBE fits right there perfectly. Everything that could be Cascaded in has pretty much an instant effect on the game. But now look at the typical R/G LD lists. You want ramp, birds, spirit guide blah blah blah. Those cards are horrible topdecks for Cascade.
Cascading into a Spirit Guide, Birds, Leonin Arbiter, Fulminator Mage isn't gonna do much for us. Yeah, I know your deck isn't well-tuned or whatever but I'm assessing BBE's role and its usefulness in a typical R/G LD deck. Not the card on its own. It's a great card and Jund is a different deck altogether. BBE belongs there. But with all the ramp creatures (possibly spells) being run here, I just don't think it belongs here. But I don't deny that it's good and warrants testing.
Looks good but I would try -1 Inquisition, -1 Aristocrat for 2 Boros Charms. Honestly think you don't need 4 Aristocrats. Seeing and getting one to stick should be easy enough and this ups the spell count too. It's great for combat tricks, gives you the extra reach late game and the potential of a huge blow out with an Aristocrat in play.
A sword could work in the deck too, as you would pretty much always have a body to hold it.
NessOnett: I like the direction your deck is going, with an all-in LD plan. I'm sure we can improve on it than it is currently so good luck with your testing and all. I haven't had much luck with the all-in approach but glad you're able to do well.
And yeah, Smallpox is really great in the format. Especially if you can take advantage of it. Been trying to do so. I haven't had great results with my current list of semi-LD in the past weeks though. Lots of 1-2 finishes and even a 0-3.
Most matchups are pretty decent. Pretty much against every deck I played, I manage to take control but couldn't finish up the game before they stabilised and started playing more lands.
EDIT:
4 Flagstones of Trokair
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Marsh Flats
4 Arid Mesa
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Godless Shrine
1 Mountain
1 Plains
1 Blood Crypt
Creatures [1]
1 Blood Baron of Vizkopa
4 Liliana of the Veil
3 Ajani Vengeant
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
Others [26]
1 Batterskull
2 Wrath of God
3 Inquisiton of Kozilek
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
4 Lingering Souls
4 Boom/Bust
4 Smallpox
1 Wrath of God
3 Pyroclasm
2 Wear/Tear
4 Rest in Peace
3 Stony Silence
2 Pithing Needle
Inquisition of Kozilek has been way better than Blackmail. Though it could get lands sometimes, most times there are other relevant things to remove. And Inquisiton reveals the whole hand rather than just 3 cards.
Games only go "well" when you have some LD in your starting hand. Especially Smallpox. Without it, most times I won't be able to slow them down enough to take over with the walkers. And at some point, it will be a really long grind till I manage to draw Blood Baron or Batterskull. In some games, by the time that happens, they would have had enough time to recover from all the LD. Might have to take this in another direction as Planeswalkers seem too slow. Many decks can effectively recover after some LD.
Young Pyromancer might just be the card we need. Getting one to stick will mean that each LD spell would at least net you a creature. I will have to look into this.
I haven't been too sure about Leyline of Sanctity since I haven't played against burn. But with Helix, Ajani, removals and discards, I would think that burn should be a decent match up. Discard hurts, but it's not worth the slot to play 4. For example, I'd rather let them discard a smallpox than have a Leyline (or draw into one) to stop it.
Usually my hand would be empty by turn 5 or 6? Unless I have a ton of lands and nothing to play or a couple of Planeswalkers. I've thought about Ensnaring Bridge a lot but I feel that it will slow down my own clock to finish off the opponent before he recovers from the LD. Which is also why I play burns over Wraths main. I opted to play Elspeth, Knight-Errant over it to quicken the clock when I have control. Can't have both Elspeth and Bridge in the same deck.
@kylar: NessOnett is right, that deck has flaws... too many. We're trying to build something competitive here.
@NessOnett: Your Ponza deck looks good. How has the Phoenix and Koth been performing? They don't seem that necessary and helping the game plan. Was it always worth it to have the 4 Spirit Guides and Crack the Earth? I mean, how often have you gotten those 2 in your starting hand AND playing second (for maximum timewalk)? However, the Guides would help with getting an early Trinisphere too so that's good. Will give this a try once I can figure out what to change for it. Looks good.
Been getting some testing done with this list below.
4 Flagstones of Trokair
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Marsh Flats
4 Arid Mesa
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Godless Shrine
1 Mountain
2 Swamp
1 Plains
2 Fulminator Mage
Planeswalkers [9]
4 Liliana of the Veil
3 Ajani Vengeant
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
Others [23]
3 Blackmail
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
4 Lingering Souls
4 Boom/Bust
4 Smallpox
2 Wrath of God
1 Fulminator Mage
4 Relic of Progenitus
3 Stony Silence
3 Pyroclasm
2 Pithing Needle
Been trying a different approach, dropping blue altogether and trying to abuse Smallpox. Wonderful card, coupled with some discard. Most recent results was from an FNM, with a 2-1 score.
Deck simply plays to clear some lands and beatdown once you're in control with some tokens.
Game 1: Storm (2-1 Win)
Relic plays a big part in this and the LD hurts storm a ton before they can go off. A Smallpox after they've dropped Goblin Electromancer is back-breaking.
Game 2: Jund (0-2 Loss)
Wrath and Relic comes in these games. Just keep that Dark Confidant out of the way. Goyf and Ooze can be easily dealt with. In one game, I managed to keep him on 1 land till turn 4 or 5 but didn't have enough removal for Confidant and he just managed to get back the lands slowly. Confidant has to go. The advantage is insane.
Game 3: UWR (2-0 Win)
Felt like a pretty easy win. Just kept him off the red/blue mana and played around the counters. Save up the burn to finish him off.
Recent testing results shows some promises so I will be testing this further, tweaking some cards here and there. Have found that Inquisiton of Kozilek might be a better choice or even Thoughtseize over Blackmail to scan their hand and know what lands to remove but Blackmail has managed to keep them off lands at some point as well. Maybe a mix. Blackmail is a way better topdeck.
Tap the one in play for w, play the new one and sacrifice the one in play, tap the new one for w. Compared to previously, tap the one in play and when the second comes into play, they both go in the yard.
Yeah, I've been wondering the same thing. With only 1 black source, it's not worth it. Here's my current build I posted a few pages back. I opted to play City of Brass over Cavern of Souls for the sole purpose of being able to generate black for Sedge. I also have Overgrown Tomb and Blood Crypt. Damage wise, with an Aether Vial in play, I can avoid tapping City of Brass unless you really need to. Darkheart Sliver and Helix helps to offset the life loss.
But being able to fit Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth will help a lot. But the mana base is tight as it is. Will be hard to squeeze it in. Gotta drop the Mutavaults probably.
4 Galerider Sliver
3 Two-headed Sliver
4 Sinew Sliver
4 Predatory Sliver
2 Phantasmal Image
2 Spellskite
4 Sedge Sliver
Other Permanents 4
4 AEther Vial
Instants/Sorceries 12
4 Glittering Wish
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
2 Mutavault
4 City of Brass
4 Arid Mesa
4 Marsh Flats
1 Blood Crypt
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Steam Vents
1 Temple Garden
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Plains
1 Forest
2 Darkheart Sliver (Lifegain)
2 Harmonic Sliver (Enchantment/Artifact)
1 Frenetic Sliver (Anti removal)
1 Necrotic Sliver (Deal the last few points of damage)
1 Sliver Legion (Winmore)
1 Jund Charm (Sweeper/Grave)
1 Rakdos Charm (Grave/Artifact)
1 Domri Rade (Much needed CA)
3 Boros Charm (Anti-sweeper/burn/combat trick)
2 Pithing Needle (Useful in general)
With regards to the Homing Sliver build, I've thought about it but I think Wish is more versatile and consistent. I definitely won't be drawing random 1-ofs that might not be useful for the current situation or my opening hand, which was what JPoJohnson was trying to say. I can simply look for what i need. Granted I only have 4 Wishes as compared to having X Slivers in hand. But I'm glad to see someone making it work.
If you have played with Sedge Silver and have access to black, you'll know that it's a house. You wanna be aggressive, and you wanna have resilience. Sedge gives both. Once you untap with Sedge on board, aside from Path, they will have a huge problem. Not having lots of black mana still allows you to recover from a "sweep" quicker. Granted, the mana base will be slightly more wonky, but I believe it's a risk worth taking, like for typical Zoo decks. More so in a meta lacking of Wrath of Gods and Damnations (most control players are playing Supreme Verdict too).
Those who have played slivers back in the Time Spiral block, I'm sure you guys can vouch.
Most recent list posted by Infowarrior is something similar to what I've been testing so stay tuned! Will address the recent posts with questions when I can while I'm at it.
I think he's refering to Immolating Souleater.
Deck looks really fun.
Oh, now that's awkward. Mistake on my part. Well, let's just say it doesn't kill our tempo that bad as long as we still have a vial in play.
-4 Confidant
+1 Lingering Souls
+2 Spectral Procession
+1 Land
I don't think 22 will cut it. 23 should be safer.
Great find on Domri Rade! It's the kind of card we need generate some CA. There's really no way for us to draw cards and Domri seems great.
Tribal Flames is great, but the utilty from Boros Charm and life gain from Lightning Helix makes them the more preferred choice. Especially with the amounts of shocks and fetches, the life gain will really help. Legion's Initative has caught my attention too. But again, I'd rather have Boros Charm for the same reasons above. Food for thought though.
Yeah, that's all I've been thinking about when trying to get a list I'm happy with. I've been comparing it with Merfolk since they both play similarly. And yes, the versatility is what makes it more appealing than Merfolk's straight-forward plan. I'm trying to incorporate both into one deck as of now.
Mirroweave is interesting. If you put it that way, you could definitely end the game right there. That's a sweet interaction. But is it worth including? I mean, if you get to the point where you have a couple lords in play and are beating face, you are most probably ahead on board control. But I guess it's great for just going "oops, I win". Let us know how that works out. Are you always happy drawing it in hand, or have you had wished it was something else?
Yeah man, this is Modern's two-bit Crystalline Sliver. I've thought about including it in my build but he 3 cmc makes it a turn-off for the more aggressive builds though (mine). Might be good to split 2-2, 3-1, or 1-3 with Sedge Sliver. But yeah, it's hella good, not cute. Just that, I'd rather have Sedge who works as a lord as well and the creature base is tight as hell as it is. Which brings me to a build I've just recently thought of and currently working on...
Here it is!
4 Galerider Sliver
3 Two-headed Sliver
4 Sinew Sliver
4 Predatory Sliver
2 Phantasmal Image
2 Spellskite
4 Sedge Sliver
Other Permanents 4
4 AEther Vial
Instants/Sorceries 12
4 Glittering Wish
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
2 Mutavault
4 City of Brass
4 Arid Mesa
4 Marsh Flats
1 Blood Crypt
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Steam Vents
1 Temple Garden
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Plains
1 Forest
2 Darkheart Sliver (Lifegain)
2 Harmonic Sliver (Enchantment/Artifact)
1 Frenetic Sliver (Anti removal)
1 Necrotic Sliver (Deal the last few points of damage)
1 Sliver Legion (Winmore)
1 Jund Charm (Sweeper/Grave)
1 Rakdos Charm (Grave/Artifact)
1 Domri Rade (Much needed CA)
3 Boros Charm (Anti-sweeper/burn/combat trick)
2 Pithing Needle (Useful in general)
Glittering Wish is exactly what I think we're looking for. Gives us the choice of what to get, when we need it. The downside, is that this slows down our clock by a turn, but at the same time, it helps us deal with threats right away. Furthermore, with a vial in play, it'll be all right to leave mana open for casting it EOT.
The main deck shell is similar to my previous build but I opted to drop the Sidewinder Sliver for Two-Headed Sliver. I'm following a similar shell of Merfolk where they have 8 evasion enablers, so I upped this to 7. I have a soft spot for Spellskite as well, and it has never failed me once. So 2 of them, coupled with the Sedges, should give us just enough resiliency. Phantasmal Image has been a house as well, as some others has echoed. Very useful. Initially wanted to play 3 of them, but some sacrifices had to be made. Overall, I'm very satisfied with the main deck currently. I feel there's nothing I wanna change, apart from tweaking the numbers of each sliver.
The mana base, which I'm sure can still be worked on till it's perfect, is my only gripe for now. But like any zoo deck, the mana is janky and getting mana screwed sucks. That's my main reason of including City of Brass over Cavern of Souls. No choice but to do so to be able to reliably cast our non-creature spells.
As for the wishboard, that's all I can come up with at the moment. I skipped Opaline Sliver as I prefer Domri Rade. Cautery Sliver was skipped as well as it doesn't do much. Apart from these two, I don't think there are any other Slivers that are worth the utility. Unless I missed something?
Sidewinders are in the flex slot, definitely. Couldn't really find anything else. Gotta keep the curve low at 20 lands and our only evasive option is Flying, so the Flanking would definitely help against spirit tokens and such. They will help against Goyfs while our Slivers can't fly as well. Like Merfolk, Vials are expected to remain at 2 for combat tricks and such.
I'd pick Sedge myself, but due to the mana base, I'm having second thoughts. Still gonna go with Sedge though. Don't forget, it's a lord as well. Not only meant for regeneration.
Phantasmal Image can either act as another lord or an 'out' to legendary creatures. Copying a Geist or Clique still has its benefits. The new legend rule doesn't necessarily make Image worse. I've played with image with the new rule. Why is it only better in Merfolk? It serves the same purpose here too.
As for your point on the removal package, it really depends on the board state and who's on the draw or play and what you're up against. The game plan remains the same regardless. Having a vial in play helps with this a lot. If I'm on the play, I'd want to get my creatures out early. If not, I'll probably want to remove some stuff first. But yeah, it needs more testing.
And with City of Brass (maybe?), Fetches and Shocks, I think Helix is a must have. Maybe Syphon Sliver to replace Sidewinder as well.
About Merfolk, we have two Islandwalk enablers (more with image) so that's at least 8 creatures that enable our evasion. While we might have to rely on Spreading Seas in some matchups, we have a bit more 'resilience' when it comes to removal of our evasion enablers. Seas are unlikely to be removed as well, especially game 1.
In Slivers case, once or if the flying enabler gets removed, you might have some trouble from chump blockers slowing your clock. And Flying creatures are still blockable too. But the lords will pump enough I guess.
Works very similarly to Merfolk and I've been brewing something along the same lines. Similar to my Merfolk shell.
4 Galerider Sliver
2 Sidewinder Sliver
4 Sinew Sliver
4 Predatory Sliver
3 Phantasmal Image
4 Adaptive Automaton/4 Sedge Sliver
4 Spellskite
4 AEther Vial
Instants/Sorceries 11
3 Path to Exile
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
Land 20
2 Cavern of Souls
4 Mutavault
14 Other lands
Spellskite has been fantastic for protecting our creatures and I opted to play bolts and helixes for reach to race rather than be reactive with counters. But this list is really lacking in CA.
As for Sedge Sliver vs Adaptive Automaton, Sedge Sliver is a lot better and preferred of course. But we'll really have to work on a strong mana base that can support it. With it and Spellskite, the slivers will be very hard to remove so this is my current base of the deck. Just need to get the mana base right and consistent.
When I mentioned about hitting WW, I was assuming we'd be changing the mana base to have lesser shocklands, but if it remains that way, then yeah I guess hitting WW and RR early isn't a problem. But is it really worth taking all that damage just for the Wrath? The format is aggressively fast and all that damage might hurt you too much.
For the Affinity matchup, I believe by the time you could wrath the Etched Champion away anyway, you'd probably be in burn range already. Wrath really might be too slow for it. But there isn't much choice for sweepers like that. Maybe Porphyry Nodes would be better. As for finishers, I agree we need more but that many creatures as 'finishers' might be too much.
And I was led to believe that Cascade works after reading the suggestion of Restoration Angel. Yep, doesn't work. The angel totally has no place here then.
Okay man, here's the thing. I'm not personally attacking your deck or anything. But look at a typical Jund list. BBE fits right there perfectly. Everything that could be Cascaded in has pretty much an instant effect on the game. But now look at the typical R/G LD lists. You want ramp, birds, spirit guide blah blah blah. Those cards are horrible topdecks for Cascade.
Cascading into a Spirit Guide, Birds, Leonin Arbiter, Fulminator Mage isn't gonna do much for us. Yeah, I know your deck isn't well-tuned or whatever but I'm assessing BBE's role and its usefulness in a typical R/G LD deck. Not the card on its own. It's a great card and Jund is a different deck altogether. BBE belongs there. But with all the ramp creatures (possibly spells) being run here, I just don't think it belongs here. But I don't deny that it's good and warrants testing.