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  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 20/05/2019)
    Quote from idSurge »
    Quote from rcwraspy »
    Quote from idSurge »
    1. Accept Modern as what it is, warp your deck around it, and accept infrequent bans/unbans if something gets nuts.
    In what world is this not the only option? Nobody here has any decision making authority over WotC or the format. We choose to play or not.


    Because we actually do have an ability to influence things. KCI would not have been banned if not for player outcry. It did not have an overwhelming presence in the meta, did not win more Top 8's than Phoenix.

    If this thread united behind something, and snowballed into SCG articles, Twitter, and Reddit, something would be done.
    Good point. That said, Bridge from Below is probably the only card on your list I'd want to see banned. I'm fine with all the others. So I guess that puts me in category #1.
    Posted in: Modern Archives
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 20/05/2019)
    Quote from idSurge »
    1. Accept Modern as what it is, warp your deck around it, and accept infrequent bans/unbans if something gets nuts.
    In what world is this not the only option? Nobody here has any decision making authority over WotC or the format. We choose to play or not.
    Posted in: Modern Archives
  • posted a message on [[Official]] Modern Prices Discussion
    Quote from cfusionpm »
    After sitting on piles of Flooded Strand and Polluted Delta that have done nothing for 5 years, I have long since changed my "spec" criteria. I basically never buy into anything unless I expect to play it and want to avoid having to pay the "hype tax" later on.

    Remember that WOTC may see us as players, Hasbro sees us as customers. And at the end of the day Hasbro wins.
    I do the same thing w/r/t my buying, but it was easy to tell from the start that the Khans fetches weren't going to balloon in price. They've followed a similar trajectory as the RTR block shocks, which is what most people thought would happen.
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on [MH1] Modern Horizons Discussion Thread
    Quote from izzetmage »
    On Horizons itself, it's a nostalgia set so a lot of cards are going to be subject to rose tinted glasses.
    Looks like they missed their opportunity to reprint Sunglasses of Urza!!
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on [[Official]] Modern Prices Discussion
    Quote from The Fluff »
    Quote from The Fluff »
    I see. thanks for that. I guess it's ok to wait now for the prices to bottom a little more.

    I feel you on the alternate art Planeswalkers from War of the Spark. I've been fiending for them as well and have a seller from Japan on FB for $240 for 1 of all 36 of them. I've been so close to pulling the trigger and probably will once I sell some of the cards that have spiked recently. I wish I had patience, as I'm not even really planning on using any of them any time soon.


    Narset is a sideboard of the UW control in my sig, so in active use. The only thing preventing me from getting one is the thought that I might get her today at 20, then a few weeks later she is 6-7$. My money is not unlimited, and I plan to save as much as possible.

    Quote from tronix »
    Quote from The Fluff »
    What are people's opinions on these.. ice fang coatl and yawgmoth, would their price increase or decrease weeks after release?
    you only buy from SCG right? i wouldnt pick up ice-fang coatls at SCG prices (4x more than preordering them on card kingdom, and 2x more than tcgplayer) . maybe it sees some play in a snow deck that doesnt exist yet, but even if it does its just that 1 deck. i cant see any demand for the card in other formats.

    as for yawgmoth...yeah id wait on that one. im very skeptical about it being able to command a 35 dollar price tag, even at mythic. unless it turns out its craaaazy good in commander or something i dont see it going UP while its in print. less sure on whether it will go down much and when that would happen. IMO its low risk to just wait


    forgot to respond to the buy only from SCG part. Yeah, these days I just buy from them almost exclusively. The habit came from seeing a few people in our facebook group get scammed with fake cards after they bought from certain online stores in ebay.
    Off-topic but this is the sorta thing i'm going to miss about this site. All the vets of this thread know that you buy from SCG exclusively and tailor responses accordingly. I'll miss that community feel to it.
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on [MH1] Modern Horizons Discussion Thread
    Quote from megatog201 »
    I sure hope that list isnt accurate. Fireblast was on there. Modern turns into the modern burn format. 😓
    I'm ok with this. Conversely, London Mulligan completely annihilates Burn as a competitive deck.
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on [MH1] Modern Horizons Discussion Thread
    Quote from DEspite »
    Why the hell would they be reprinting Gush to Modern when it's literally banned in Legacy and restricted in Vintage
    And legal as a 4-of in Pauper. Gush is one of those cards where its power level is largely determined by the format's limitations instead of the card itself.

    That said I also find it unlikely to be in Horizons.
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 11/03/2019)
    Quote from ktkenshinx »
    Quote from rcwraspy »
    Quote from Lear_the_cat »
    It's so easy to see on this new decklist rule who likes linear noninteractive games and who doesn't. Smile
    I'm a Jund player and I hate the new decklist rule. I don't like big sweeping changes like London mulligan or this decklist thing when the game is great already and just needs finessing here and there, depending on format.

    Out of curiosity, why do you hate it?
    Primarily grumpy old man reasons. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. And if it's only slightly broke, why feel the need to make such sweeping changes?

    Regarding the decklist rule specifically, I've always thought that correctly assessing your opponent's game plan, deck, and possible cards in deck was a skill based on knowledge of the applicable format. I don't like changes that take skills away from the game. It makes experience and practice much less important.
    Posted in: Modern Archives
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 11/03/2019)
    Quote from Lear_the_cat »
    It's so easy to see on this new decklist rule who likes linear noninteractive games and who doesn't. Smile
    I'm a Jund player and I hate the new decklist rule. I don't like big sweeping changes like London mulligan or this decklist thing when the game is great already and just needs finessing here and there, depending on format.
    Posted in: Modern Archives
  • posted a message on [MH1] Modern Horizons Discussion Thread
    Quote from Lectrys »
    Quote from mapccu »
    I think karakas would be fine. The only deck it'll really heavily impact is grishoalbrand imo. So many other creature strats just don't care about it. I get there is minimal deck building cost to the first one really, like pendelhaven, but more than 2 seems like you'd be stretching it.

    I don't think you'd need a fixed version of it and I don't think it'll be all that useful to the format. Unless they print some busted in half legendary creature that lets you abuse it.

    Apparently one of the more broken interactions, Karakas + Vendilion Clique, already doesn't see that much play in Legacy.

    What Karakas has done more to Legacy is make Gurmag Angler the primary Delve fatty and Tasigur, the Golden Fang see practically no play. While Modern has already been going in that direction because 5/5's are sweeter than 4/5's, a mere land that prevents Tasigur but not Gurmag from ever connecting is a pretty big pressure (a pressure I have personally experienced from trying Legacy decks, too).

    Karakas tends to traditionally be a hoser of unfair decks in Legacy, though--it keeps bouncing cheated-in legends such as Emrakul, the Aeons Torn and Griselbrand. It's arguably one of the pressures that pushed Legacy onto Griselbrand instead of Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur (the other is Show and Tell decks). It's quite possible that Karakas can do a similar job in Modern, preventing Goryo's Vengeance decks from becoming too popular.
    Karakas is really just for Emrakul and Griselbrand for Sneak/Show and Reanimator strategies and Marit Lage (Dark Depths) from Lands and Turbo Depths, which sees a lot of play in Legacy right now. In fact I'd say Marit Lage is probably seen more than Emrakul in Legacy right now.
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 11/03/2019)
    Quote from idSurge »

    1. Print Swords to Plowshares, Daze, Planar Void and Counterspell in Modern Horizons.
    2. Print additional fair cards in Green, White, Black.
    3. Print some new combo's that have a payoff card that cannot be cast before Turn 4 with regularity.
    4. Unban Stoneforge Mystic, Splinter Twin, KCI
    5. Ban Terminus
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe KCI was banned because it violated the T4 rule or because it had too much meta share. Wasn't it closer to the Eggs ban in some ways? If so I'd remove unban KCI from your list.

    I'd also remove ban Terminus from your list. I understand that printing Swords, Daze, Counterspell could make control with Terminus very strong, but I'd rather give it time to be sure instead of preemptively banning Terminus. SFM was a preemptive format ban and people are still waiting for it to come off.
    Posted in: Modern Archives
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 11/03/2019)
    Quote from gkourou »
    Quote from rcwraspy »
    Quote from cfusionpm »
    There is no way around a Looting ban. The card is way too powerful.

    People are packing a bunch of gy hate and dredge still has a 56% winrate. That is ridicolous

    Much like my view of Probe, I find it ironic that a card which has been legal in Modern for nearly the entirety of the existence of the format, is suddenly broken. But nobody seems to address that the reason why it's "broken" is specifically due to new printings that abuse free, uncounterable graveyard abilities.
    I 2/3rds agree with you. I agree it's similar to Probe (which I felt shouldn't have been banned). I agree that Lootings has been fine for ever. But I disagree that it's simply because of new printings. New printings have made those decks more popular, but the real issue in my mind is that the format lacks general answers to those strategies which can be deployed by almost any deck.


    Hey, rwcraspy, long time, no see. What's up? I agree, but a question. What format has answers that can be deployed in every deck? For Example, Legacy has Force of will / daze / etc, but only blue decks can play those answers, toxic deluge is black, etc, etc. So, what do you mean?
    Yeah, that's a good point. I should amend to say powerful, broad answers available in each color. And of course when it comes to the graveyard there's already a lot of artifact (playable by all decks, technically) based hate.
    Posted in: Modern Archives
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 11/03/2019)
    Quote from cfusionpm »
    There is no way around a Looting ban. The card is way too powerful.

    People are packing a bunch of gy hate and dredge still has a 56% winrate. That is ridicolous

    Much like my view of Probe, I find it ironic that a card which has been legal in Modern for nearly the entirety of the existence of the format, is suddenly broken. But nobody seems to address that the reason why it's "broken" is specifically due to new printings that abuse free, uncounterable graveyard abilities.
    I 2/3rds agree with you. I agree it's similar to Probe (which I felt shouldn't have been banned). I agree that Lootings has been fine for ever. But I disagree that it's simply because of new printings. New printings have made those decks more popular, but the real issue in my mind is that the format lacks general answers to those strategies which can be deployed by almost any deck.
    Posted in: Modern Archives
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 11/03/2019)
    Quote from cfusionpm »
    From twitter:

    #MTGBilbao Semifinal results:

    2010 World Champion Guillaume Matignon defeats Thomas Rasmussen in an Izzet Phoenix mirror

    Now six-time GP Top 8 competitor Louis-Samuel Deltour (Whir Prison) triumphs over Joseba Garcia (Dredge).

    EDIT: Matignon on UR Phoenix takes down Bilbao

    So this gets updated:

    Since Printing Phoenix on 10/5/18
    Total GPs: 6
    Total copies of Phoenix in T8: 9
    Avg copies per GP: 1.5 (?, 2*, 2*, 2, 1*, 2, 0) *Win
    Winners: 3* (Don't know Tampa results yet)

    Twin in all of 2015
    Total GPs: 8
    Total copies of Twin in T8: 10
    Avg copies per GP: 1.25 (3*, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 1*, 0) *Win
    Winners: 2 (vastly different builds, nearly a year apart)

    Either Phoenix gets banned, Twin gets unbanned, or WOTC are just massive hypocrites who sold us on a bulls**t banning three years ago.
    I see the numbers you've posted and certainly can't dispute them (I'm assuming they're correct without doing the fact-checking myself). The one thing I'd say is that Twin is a combo whereas Phoenix relies on a limited number of attackers. WotC's ban of Twin came with a nod toward allowing more "fair" (read: not combo) U/R decks in the format to thrive. They may think it's easier to interact with Phoenix than it was with Twin and therefore be fine with the numbers.

    I'm not saying I agree with that argument, but I'm just presenting it as a possible train of thought which would distinguish the decks and potentially provide a gap in the tolerance for those numbers.
    Posted in: Modern Archives
  • posted a message on [[Official]] Modern Prices Discussion
    Quote from AvalonAurora »
    I'm wondering how Horizons will affect prices of existing cards. It's hard to know until the spoilers, but even without reprinting existing cards, it can still affect their prices.

    After all, some decks may find cards in it suit them slightly better than certain cards currently in the deck (even if they aren't strictly better, and other decks with that card would still use it), which could cause those cards to turn up for sale, some decks could be made more viable by new inclusions which could result in people buying other cards from those decks, some cards could see strictly better versions turn up and plummet in price, some decks could see enough new hate against them or decks that prey on them rising in the metagame or being created based on the new cards and become less popular with their pieces dropping in demand, and so on.

    It's probably good that the shock-lands are currently in print, given the potential for Modern Horizons to increase the popularity of the format. Although of course, that could only make the pressure on the fetch-lands worse, so if that does happen, I hope they'd quickly reprint those in large numbers somehow outside of Standard.
    My current operating assumption is that two things will happen.

    1. Cards will be printed that will enable low-tier or currently non-existent decks and invalidate current decks. The cards from those invalidated decks which are used solely in those decks will drop in price. However, if this happens at all it will likely only happen to a very small number of decks, maybe not even more than 1 deck.

    2. Cards will be printed that boost current strategies. The cards currently used by those strategies will rise in dollar value as their decks become more popular. This has a higher chance of happening to a larger number of decks.

    And with either (or both) of those possibilities comes the inevitable meta-game shift which itself could create the same sort of price variations we currently see when the meta shifts.

    So overall it is my opinion that buying current staples should be a net financial benefit, but be ready for some of those staples to fall in price. If you diversify the staples and their respective decks you should come out ahead.

    There's also a possibility that if Horizons has the kind of impact that the first Modern Masters did, Modern will grow in popularity yet again, also raising the prices of most staples.

    That's just what makes sense to me at the moment - certainly don't take it as gospel.

    EDIT: And as you mention, there's also the possibility that they print "strictly better" cards. I wouldn't anticipate this happening very broadly. Maybe Counterspell pushes Mana Leak and Remand further out of the format, but those cards aren't widely played at the moment anyway. Similar to #1 above, I wouldn't anticipate this happening to a large portion of the current staples. Remember that it's designed as a draft set so there will be a lot of chaff that doesn't make its way into competitive Modern.
    Posted in: Modern
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