Just wanted to respond to this real quick. I have experience playing both Tron and Eldrazi. At my LGS yesterday I played an Eldrazi Tron list without Eye. The deck didn't seem to miss a beat really. Still able to cast TKS on t2 or RS on t3. 2 Conduit of Ruin acted as my Eye of Ugin if you will. I didn't lose a game. Deck had solid early plays still and had the same inevitability. I think that some form of Tron/Eldrazi will emerge as tier 1 still, just not as oppressive or fast obviously.
This deck has caught my interest recently so I went and read the last 5 pages or so over the last month. There is a new card in SoI that I was surprised has not evne been mentioned for testing and that is Olivia, Mobilized for War. Is her 3 toughness really scaring people off of her because "dies to bolt"? Seems like she would be a good 1-2 of in the Jund lists. Untapping with her seems like all she wrote on turn 4. Is it because You can win already on turn 4? Still seems solid in the slightly more grindy games, provides a situational discard outlet, evasive, and speeds up the clock. Thoughts from those who have a lot of experience playing this deck?
I'll be running BG Heartless tonight at my LGS. Possibly Jund Heartless if I can get my hands on some KReturns or Kommands before hand, but that may have to wait until next week. I'll report tomorrow with my results and decklist and any feedback I can provide.
Life from the Loam is an interesting concept. Since we run the risk of dumping creatures in the graveyard, I'd think running Kommand in the Jund versions would be a must. BG wouldn't have that option. Something like Artisan of Kozilek could be an option, although not nearly as good. I think running LftL in the Jund versions along with Kommand would be superior to Crucible of Worlds
Edit: for non Jund versions, Elixir of Immortality that we've been talking about for life gain can also help offset dumping creatures into the graveyard. Interesting.
RG Tron is not well positioned from what I've seen. It loses to the other two most popular decks and struggles hard with a lot of other aggressive strategies hanging out in the second tier. We have better game against the metagame right now in my opinion.
The cards are fun but too slow for modern right now. Sometimes, you cast World Breaker right in time, sometimes it's not even fast enough. So Bane being slower, and relying on 2-cards combos, is not where anyone wants to be. However, playing both is something I didn't try. I think Annihilator 2 is not enough on turn 5+, so I don't see Bane doing much.
On another note, what do you guys think of Elixir Of Immortality instead of Feed the Clan in the Ancient Stirrings versions ?
I had some games where I had to bottom Feed and wished I could dig for lifegain. It costed me those games.
The same reasoning comes out between Thragtusk and Wurmcoil Engine. The artifacts don't gain life right away but are targets for Stirrings, while the green spells gain life right away and are cheaper to cast. I'm a bit frustrated of losses because of unreachable spells, so I'll go with artifacts.
We may also compare Elixir VS Feed with Expedition Map VS Sylvan Scrying. The green spell is faster, the artifact slower but the activated ability can help in response to our opponent. Especially Skullcrack and Atarka's Command. Elixir has also a fringe utility against Tarmogoyf decks where you may want the lifegain spell (Zoo).
If you guys know colorless spells that gain life, I'm listening. Not a huge fan of Sun Droplet and Dragon's Claw, the first being a bit slow and the second way too narrow.
I think that this is a good question, specifically about colorless lifegain options vs our green lifegain options. I'd say for the lists running exile effects, Ruin Processor would be the best choice. But, Heartless versions typically only have it off of World Breaker and Ulamog and that is not fast enough. The only other colorless lifegain option I can think of atm, would be Batterskull or my good ol' friend Bottle Gnomes the question is is Bottle Gnomes enough lifegain? Typically, he just blocks then you sac when life is needed, or is Batterskull better than Wurmcoil? Another issue that could arise is the broken card named Destructive Revelry that the burn lists are running 3-4 of. Do cards like that make the green options of Feed the Clan and Thragtusk better?
Edit: Other options that are kind of interesting are the following: Whip of Erebos and Bow of Nylea. These are probably too slow and aren't actually colorless so I'd rule them out. We of course have our Sword of Light and Shadow but is probably too slow and unreliable since you have to equip it where Batterskull comes etb with a creature, but it certainly would be a powerful effect to keep the gas running. Pristine Talisman is something that could be interesting for some of the builds more focused on ramping. But, I think the options are between what we've already mentioned.
Edit: Should we be more committed to adding a Miren, the Moaning Well to our mana base as an additional option?
I think that you should cut the Vault for a third GQ. I don't think Vault is really going to help you close out games as much as the ability to seriously offset someone's mana.
The Vault of the Archangel is there for the life gain as well as the grindy matchups swinging life totals and making each token a threat on defense. It's not there to help me close out games.
I'm pretty sure our deck is going to be really bad in the new format. All the ok/bad matchups will be around more and 2 good matchups are gone. Sell your tron stuff while its high!
I've been running Eye of Ugin and Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger for at least a month now. I count Eye as a spell rather than a land since it doesn't produce mana. The reason I added this package is because I didn't think I should be losing certain grindy games that go long and couldn't close because I couldn't find a threat. Yes, I run 2 Treasure Mages with Mindslaver, Wurmcoils, Plat Angel, and a STitan, but in longer games sometimes some of these threats were already dealt with and I was digging and digging for another. I have found that even if I draw neither part of that package, drawing into a map or tolaria west and tutoring for eye and then Ulamog works. I do take the package out vs faster matchups like Zoo/Burn or Affinity, but leave it in for all others. I won't be taking the package out anytime soon. I have won off just casting him many times. You just need to add Eye with Ulamog imo to make him tutorable. Eye being able to tutor all of our creature threats just adds to its value.
Edit: for non Jund versions, Elixir of Immortality that we've been talking about for life gain can also help offset dumping creatures into the graveyard. Interesting.
http://www.mtgdecks.net/events/view/25443
Just got 2 in top 8 and another in top 16. Surrounded by aggro to "keep it in check"
I think that this is a good question, specifically about colorless lifegain options vs our green lifegain options. I'd say for the lists running exile effects, Ruin Processor would be the best choice. But, Heartless versions typically only have it off of World Breaker and Ulamog and that is not fast enough. The only other colorless lifegain option I can think of atm, would be Batterskull or my good ol' friend Bottle Gnomes the question is is Bottle Gnomes enough lifegain? Typically, he just blocks then you sac when life is needed, or is Batterskull better than Wurmcoil? Another issue that could arise is the broken card named Destructive Revelry that the burn lists are running 3-4 of. Do cards like that make the green options of Feed the Clan and Thragtusk better?
Edit: Other options that are kind of interesting are the following: Whip of Erebos and Bow of Nylea. These are probably too slow and aren't actually colorless so I'd rule them out. We of course have our Sword of Light and Shadow but is probably too slow and unreliable since you have to equip it where Batterskull comes etb with a creature, but it certainly would be a powerful effect to keep the gas running. Pristine Talisman is something that could be interesting for some of the builds more focused on ramping. But, I think the options are between what we've already mentioned.
Edit: Should we be more committed to adding a Miren, the Moaning Well to our mana base as an additional option?
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
4 Conduit of Ruin
2 World Breaker
1 Void Winnower
3 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
Spells (10)
2 Thoughtseize
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 All is Dust
2 Dismember
3 Ancient Stirrings
4 Heartless Summoning
Lands (27)
3 Eye of Ugin
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Ghost Quarter
4 Tendo Ice Bridge
1 Cavern of Souls
4 Llanowar Wastes
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Forest
2 Swamp
1 All is Dust
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Duress
2 Feed the Clan
2 Spellskite
2 Surgical Extraction
I will probably make some changes before I play the deck next week, but this is the rough shell I'll be working with.
The Vault of the Archangel is there for the life gain as well as the grindy matchups swinging life totals and making each token a threat on defense. It's not there to help me close out games.
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Path to Exile
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
2 Spectral Procession
3 Timely Reinforcements
4 Lingering Souls
1 Painful Truths
Enchantments (7)
3 Bitterblossom
4 Intangible Virtue
Planeswalkers (4)
1 Liliana of the Veil
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
2 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
2 Auriok Champion
Lands (23)
3 Plains
2 Swamp
4 Marsh Flats
4 Bloodstained Mire
3 Godless Shrine
2 Sacred Foundry
1 Blood Crypt
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Vault of the Archangel
2 Ghost Quarter
2 Crumble to Dust
1 Rending Volley
1 Wear // Tear
2 Stony Silence
1 Surgical Extraction
2 Rest in Peace
2 Zealous Persecution
1 Liliana of the Veil
1 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Kor Firewalker
1 Duress
Probably going to run this tonight. I'm hoping I can pick up a Gideon, Ally of Zendikar for the Elspeth, Knight-Errant. Unfortunately, I do not have a Fetid Heath to help fix the mana base a little bit. Hoping Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth helps with the Ghost Quarters and Vault of the Archangel on 23 lands, we will see. I may also -1 Lightning Bolt for +1 Lightning Helix for the extra life gain since I am running more fetches and shocks than my BW version. If anyone has any pointers about the land base, main deck or sideboard, it would be welcome.