3 options:
We counter it
We go all in with the creatures we have on the board
We concede cause we have no board
Be thankfull that the opponend is playing a 3 mana spell which isn't uncounterable, pierce it, it's free tempo. Don't play a basic, it's just bad in tresh.
The decks that are playing Bloodmoon are usually non-creature decks so postside you should have a ton of counter for it.
If you really have a lot of burn in your meta, just play something like a Zuran orb in your side.
Thanks for the input, Im still really new to this deck and certainly need a ton of practice. I'm also wondering about first turn plays quite a lot... do you always try to play the Delver first if you have it or is it better to leave mana open for a Spell Pierce or Stifle? Obviously a Daze in hand makes the decision so much easier but I often question myself on what the proper play is.
Another question - is there a general consensuses of Forked Bolt VS Fire//Ice? Seems a lot of people are running the Bolt lately but I think Fire//Ice was the previously ran card of choice. Just wondering if the mana cost beat out the versatility... I noticed in this deck your mana starved a lot, simply because there's just so much stuff you can do on any given turn... perhaps that factored into it?
One thing I'm curious about is do anyone play a basic land in their deck in case of things like bblood moon or other hate cards? Burn style decks are sometimes showing up in this area which I never have a problem with but blood moon is a huge pain and pretty much locks me out of the game when it resolves. Outside countering it, how do you guys deal with that?
I don't mind the online meta too much but my local meta is garbage. I played 4 mono red aggro decks in a row at my LGS at FNM which appearently isn't that unusual because it makes up more than 40% of my meta. I am dying to play against something that isn't mono red.
Play Mono U and absolutely crush them
Standard is very healthy in my area, maybe the best it's ever been.
I remember how angry I was when Specters were my rares in booster packs I opened. Not only they weren't played but everyone agreed that it is unplayable AND it was a promo rare. I sold 3 (one promo) for 1$ each and was happy that I got rid of them.
It pains me to say this but "back in the day" when me and my buddies used to crack open packs of Mirage, we'd often use Lions Eye Diamonds as throwing stars. Enraged, we'd get such a crappy rare... wtf is this, discard your hand? Useless... !! And, in fairness, at the time it was, there wasn't any decks that could absolutely abuse it like there are today. I've beaten up and given away so many of them which, at the time, was a $1 dollar rare.
Did Kibler post the list that all the pros are on? Josh and Chapin seem to be on it too. Golgari Midrange running Lotleth, Mangler, Ooze, Polukranos, Thoughtseize, Boon Satyr. What else?
This sounds really interesting - I wonder what the decklist for this is? Nothing posting yet from what I can see Probably won't have them up till tomorrow.
Ross specifically said the two drop heavy version was a metagame call vs. a lot of hate for x/1s. Sooo I think it's wrong to view the newer version as the "improved" version.
I agree, I think the older version is much better than the newer one - but he was trying to avoid people playing around all his x/1 creatures.
This deck is a true glass cannon - games will be over quick one way or the other
Is it wrong for me to say that I "PERSONALLY" want that thing banned.
I mean no ones going to agree with that but if I never had to see it again, it'd be too soon.
3 land = 18 mana, and seeing it fully take advantage of the New Legend Rules, is pretty sickening and not in a good way.
Maybe bannings to extreme but I'd like a way to interact with, before it goes off at least.
Thats really what makes it sooo strong, you can't DO anything about the thing. Pithing Needle: Misses it, Land D: Doesn't exist in a form that does anything to it.
I'm almost surpised no ones started throwing fireballs with it. "Dome you for 20?".
Sigh. Still congrats to the Mr. Hall of dallas.
He definitely navigated the meta well.
Which I feel like is more important than anything else right now in standard. Navigating the meta well.
end rant.
It's pretty ridiculous but at the same time you can take out their devotion and it really helps against the Shrines. If you let it get outta hand though, it's going to be over quickly. They can drop their hand, garruk, get a new hand, drop it again. Silly...
ROFL fairly positive that wasn't lethal... he should be at 2 and at least get to draw.
That said, he did scry last turn so maybe he knew it wasn't something that could save him - but if that was the case why didn't he bottom it? Hmm... strange end to the match.
Ive been playing this deck all this week and really getting into its mindset. Its certainly different from your regular RDW. It plays more like a combo than anything, so recognizing specific plays and proper sequencing will yield the best results, which for this deck translates to maxium damage on turns 2-3. Turn 4 they should be dead or within Lightning Strike range. The best way to think about this deck is that each spell is a ritual effect, only instead of mana, its damage.
In terms of side board, I am in love with Hammer in this deck. It allows lands beyond the third to be a guy. It also allows us to rebuild after a wrath quickly.
Nivmagus is also nice. The tricks you can do with him are quite astounding and he can push tons of damage rather quickly. There's been games where Nivmagus with Madcap Skils and pumped by some exiled spells has done over 10 damage by himself. That's some serious beats. I kind of want more, like 2-3 maybe.
I'm not following why exiling the spell will actually make a difference? The only spells in the deck you can exile are Lightning Strike or Titan's Strength, both which would do 3 damage instead of just 2..... Unless you're using it as "counter protection", ie, when it's on the stack, it gets countered, in response, move the counters to Nivmagus?
Yes, yes, you think your sword is bigger than mine.
The infinite life combo with Reckoner has been known for a while. If it was that good or that easy to pull off, then why didn't it appear in the top decks when mana fixing was much easier? With the mana base you posted, you're either shocking yourself for a lot of damage or delaying yourself by several turns.
Think about the decks that run Burning Earth.
I agree with you that the combo is hard to pull off and you'd never build a deck trying to go for that, but really, it has nothing to do with burning earth.
Esper plays the same amount of non-basic lands as WBR and doesn't have a problem. Yes, I do realize they have d spheres and counters, which they should never waste on a burning earth... while WBR has thoughtseizes(also, should never target burning earth) and can easily play around the few damage burning earth will do as a whole. You still play with basics, or at least you should be. A WBR deck also made the top 8 at last weeks SCG Open. Do you know how many Burning Earths were in the top 8?
Burning earth really isn't much of a threat. I've played it against these decks before and it's usually not even worth it unless you are playing it turn 4 - anything later than that it's too easy to play around. Usually I'd much rather play something useful on turn 4 that's going to change the game state. Dunno why I'd play a burning earth if I could play a Polukranos or something of that "esk". Just makes way more sense to me....
Mono-white devotion, mono-red blitz, and maybe mono-u devotion (that does require 4 nightveil specter).
Mutavaults as well in the Mono U deck, but otherwise I agree. I think if you're looking for a tier 1 deck that plays a lot of theros choose something like you suggested here. Mono red blitz likely would be the cheapest/fastest to put together. You'd be missing the Zealots and Legionists but that's like $20-30 bucks and most stores carry those kinds of cards in bunches. Should be very easy to replace those cards as well if you can't find them before your tourney.
Thanks for the input, Im still really new to this deck and certainly need a ton of practice. I'm also wondering about first turn plays quite a lot... do you always try to play the Delver first if you have it or is it better to leave mana open for a Spell Pierce or Stifle? Obviously a Daze in hand makes the decision so much easier but I often question myself on what the proper play is.
Another question - is there a general consensuses of Forked Bolt VS Fire//Ice? Seems a lot of people are running the Bolt lately but I think Fire//Ice was the previously ran card of choice. Just wondering if the mana cost beat out the versatility... I noticed in this deck your mana starved a lot, simply because there's just so much stuff you can do on any given turn... perhaps that factored into it?
Would have been interesting to see that game play out with a few more resources on his side.
Kidding of course, but it's been great in any green decks for me, for all the reasons you said above.
Ahhh I remember the good ole "It's a PT fad, it'll never last" comments. Where are those at?
Play Mono U and absolutely crush them
Standard is very healthy in my area, maybe the best it's ever been.
It pains me to say this but "back in the day" when me and my buddies used to crack open packs of Mirage, we'd often use Lions Eye Diamonds as throwing stars. Enraged, we'd get such a crappy rare... wtf is this, discard your hand? Useless... !! And, in fairness, at the time it was, there wasn't any decks that could absolutely abuse it like there are today. I've beaten up and given away so many of them which, at the time, was a $1 dollar rare.
Yeahhhhh..... sucks right?
This sounds really interesting - I wonder what the decklist for this is? Nothing posting yet from what I can see
I agree, I think the older version is much better than the newer one - but he was trying to avoid people playing around all his x/1 creatures.
This deck is a true glass cannon - games will be over quick one way or the other
It's pretty ridiculous but at the same time you can take out their devotion and it really helps against the Shrines. If you let it get outta hand though, it's going to be over quickly. They can drop their hand, garruk, get a new hand, drop it again. Silly...
That said, he did scry last turn so maybe he knew it wasn't something that could save him - but if that was the case why didn't he bottom it? Hmm... strange end to the match.
I didn't follow... which update?
I'm not following why exiling the spell will actually make a difference? The only spells in the deck you can exile are Lightning Strike or Titan's Strength, both which would do 3 damage instead of just 2..... Unless you're using it as "counter protection", ie, when it's on the stack, it gets countered, in response, move the counters to Nivmagus?
I agree with you that the combo is hard to pull off and you'd never build a deck trying to go for that, but really, it has nothing to do with burning earth.
Esper plays the same amount of non-basic lands as WBR and doesn't have a problem. Yes, I do realize they have d spheres and counters, which they should never waste on a burning earth... while WBR has thoughtseizes(also, should never target burning earth) and can easily play around the few damage burning earth will do as a whole. You still play with basics, or at least you should be. A WBR deck also made the top 8 at last weeks SCG Open. Do you know how many Burning Earths were in the top 8?
Burning earth really isn't much of a threat. I've played it against these decks before and it's usually not even worth it unless you are playing it turn 4 - anything later than that it's too easy to play around. Usually I'd much rather play something useful on turn 4 that's going to change the game state. Dunno why I'd play a burning earth if I could play a Polukranos or something of that "esk". Just makes way more sense to me....
Mutavaults as well in the Mono U deck, but otherwise I agree. I think if you're looking for a tier 1 deck that plays a lot of theros choose something like you suggested here. Mono red blitz likely would be the cheapest/fastest to put together. You'd be missing the Zealots and Legionists but that's like $20-30 bucks and most stores carry those kinds of cards in bunches. Should be very easy to replace those cards as well if you can't find them before your tourney.