I did read through the thread before posting; I personally don't believe Daze offers enough value to you, but I suppose that's partly a difference in philosophy.
Another difference in philosophy is reflected in our views on life totals. I consider life a resource just like mana or draw capability. There's a vast amount of power available to you if you're willing to spend something to get it. I think losing 1 life for one card off of Phyrexian Arena is worth it to have the extra draw; you're just exchanging one resource for another.
Perhaps the problems you have staying alive are indicators that aspects of your design should be tweaked. In terms of creatures played, attacks/blocks declared, and turn count, what does a typical game look like for you? What kinds of threats do you have to address (specifically, what is causing you to lose the most life: combat damage from swarms of creatures, combat damage from heavy-hitters, direct damage/life loss spells, etc.)?
lets see.. i'm running blue.. meaning i got tons of counter spells and i can make all my spells have flash... and people don't normally like their stuff being countered..
then i'm running black so i also have destruction capabilities for anything that goes through... and people don't normally like it when their stuff gets destroyed...
then i'm running green meaning i'm capable of getting enough mana to do whatever shenanigans i wish to implement...
put them all together and you have a deck that is capable of almost anything really.
now add Damia's draw power and i got myself unlimited supply of resources.
playing against me is irritating. specially since i have no intentions for politics.
the problem isnt simply because i get overwhelmed by tons of creatures or spells that make me lose life. i can handle those things. in fact this deck is made solely for the purpose or preventing those things.
but you gotta factor in, this is a multiplayer EDH. that's at least 2 people focusing me down with everything they've got due to the fact that they simply hate my deck. As I stated, it doesnt matter if someone else has a more threatening deck than mine.
that is a typical game for me. in fact, that is the only type of match up i always get unless i'm against new people who don't know my deck.
now if i was playing single 1 vs 1, i have yet to find anyone capable of beating me. perhaps if you'd like, we can easily do a match through skype so i can show you what i mean.
Now tell me again, why should i play something that makes me lose life when I'm being focused 100% of the time by 2-3 players? if this wasnt the case, i'd use them, trust me.
Based on my own experiences with BUG, I have a few suggestions to make in terms of drops and adds. What is your budget for the deck so I can give more effective feedback?
Drop:
Piranha Marsh - It's too slow; making an opponent lose 1 life is not worth your land coming in tapped.
Daze - It's not effective in EDH. Your opponent will often have mana open when they cast the spell you want to counter, which kind of makes this card useless in most cases.
Relic Crush - This card is a bit slow. I think you could replace it with a cheaper removal spell or a more powerful one.
Add:
Rhystic Study - This enchantment produces some insane card advantage early on if left unanswered and it forces your opponents to slow down or risk you having more resources.
Phyrexian Arena - Similar to Rhystic Study, this enchantment gives you steady draw power and can even be stacked with Damia's triggered ability to net you an extra card on your upkeep.
Krosan Grip - K.Grip is an amazing way to answer a lot of different threats from Necropotence to Oblivion Stone and even Leyline of Anticipation. It's essentially uncounterable and stops your opponents from responding with an ability of whatever you're blowing up.
Rain of Thorns - I haven't personally tested this card, but it seems like it could have applications in EDH.
You've also erroneously listed Maelstrom Pulse as an instant. It is a sorcery.
Have you thought about adding any combos to the deck? There's a lot that BUG can do to produce and capitalize on infinite mana.
hmm, i'd say $20 on cards max per 3 months.
i don't like phrexian arena/necropotence because it cost health to draw. i don't know if you read the first post completely or skimmed it but on the match history, i mentioned that on every single game i had i was focused down. it doesn't matter if the other guy is playing poison or other broken cards/mechanics/combos.
for that reason, i can't have anything that cost health to use except for reanimate. staying alive is hard enough, i don't need to speed up my death by damaging myself too.
i was thinking of adding bribery to replace rite of replication, what do you think? although rhystic study seems tempting.
and i'm not sure, piranha marsh is there for lols to be honest. i was gonna replace it with a duo land. just wasn't sure which one yet. maybe the come to play tapped unless pay 2.
hmm, you would have to look at the thread posts to see my argument for daze. its very useful to me. that added fear to your opponent is alot more useful than you think.
and thanks, i completely didn't notice it was a sorcery, thanks! fixing it now.
updated the deck and thread. added a match history.
i won the tournament with only 1 loss out of 5. fairly solid right now. it can definitely improve still however. desperately need more ways to prevent destruction. there's only so much counter spells until i run out.
I think you should add more lands and more ramp. 34 lands is very little, especially if you want to abuse cards like azusa, I would up this to 40, which also allows you to play more utility lands. Nature's lore/three visits/farseekskyshroud claim work very well with revised/ravnica duals, making a three color mana base a lot easier to work with (as do fetches). You should be playing pernicious deed as it is a great board wipe in your colors (much better than plague wind which is terribly slow). You'll also find your combo's much faster if you play worldly tutor, mystical tutor, vampiric tutor and [casd]insidious dreams[/card] (which works very well with damia).
i actually play tested an oracle of mul daya and i will be removing azusa for her. i noticed that it made my deck so much faster and made sure that i don't draw a land. the show top of deck isn't much of a problem to be honest.
i just played in a tournament and won. mana wasn't my problem. it was the cards i need to get that i had problems with. i often sat there going "i could use a leyline or i could use a plague wind or an O. stone" but i wasn't drawing my tutors which sucked. but hmm, i'll report what happened in the tournament and what cards i need to change.
you know you can link the card when you post right? o.o
i'm guessing you were on phone again lmao
so dream fracture. i took a look at it and i wen't "why would i give my opponents a chance to get something good?" cancel is just so much better. sure it lets me draw a card but i'm still giving my opponent a card regardless. not worth it.
I got my play group to look at your deck to back me up the back me on hinder and fact or fiction however they back you on plauge wind and consecrated. They said plauge wind is bomb I just don't like it vecuase all u care about are etb effects where you look to lock and jerk creature in board now I agree since the all pretty much thought I was retarded. They also suggested arcanis over consecrated because it draws less hate is good with your greaves and has retarded synergy with muse which they thought u built the deck around tutoring up.
alright, well i thought about hinder. the fact that i can tuck a general into a deck with it is nice but hmm..
not sure if i wanna remove cancel for it. cancel is more solid in my opinion since i can target other things with it and i will be sure to have gotten rid of it unless my enemy is playing graveyard.
i would much rather have a cancel in my hand when i don't have any other counter spells left in my hand besides cancel when my opponent tries to wrath of god the field or use that annoying card that steals all my lands or confusion in the ranks
arcanis the omnipotent used to be in the deck. him plus seedborn muse was awesome but i got rid of him because i added teferi. i'm not sure if i want him back yet but it'd be pretty cool.
your friends are right, if i don't have seedborn muse in my hand, i tutor it when i can. i have alot of combos that work around her and to protect her and in return, she helps me to get cards to cast damia/protect damia.
Have you considered adding Sylvan Library? It's useless once you get Damia into play, but until then it can really help you get the cards you need. I find playing it turn one or two nearly always allows me to set up a win incredibly easily.
Also, Rain of Daggers is worth trying instead of or in addition to Plague Wind, it costs 3 less to play. Plus the fact that it targets a player rather than affecting everyone adds some politics to the game.
I hope that helps!
not sure if i want sylvan library. i want to have cards that are useful in all stages of the game and doesnt become useless. mana reflection would be a much better option imo but that's already being considered. if i didn't draw library early, it becomes a useless card in my hand late game.
if only politics existed in my playgroup. they all hate playing against my Damia deck lol. but hmm, not sure if i want it cuz i take damage for the creatures destroyed.. and that's not something i would want since my deck generates alot of hate already so i need all the health i have to survive their attempts to overthrow Damia from her throne.
You pick which pile you get with fact and you Picj which opponent splits the hand so at worst you get the better 50% of your next 5 cards in your deck since you pick if you need a tutor or wrath or w/e and it's in Thier there is nothing they cm do to stop you from taking it I'm not sure I understand what your saying but I can tell you from years of experience playing this card it's ****ing awesome. I don't know if you tested it I'll believe you but I can't think if a much better spell sitting next to my counterspell in hand when I'm passing untapped. You need to then counter if not fact right b4 your turn now you get to see 6 cads not one cheery ouch which ones you get and to boot sometimes they don't know what you need vecuase they can't see your hand and u get 3 awesome cards . I can't let you not re test this it's cheap you already have it and it's amazing someone else vouch for me on fact or fiction plz
i understand. what i meant was that i can't choose which cards goes to what pile, i only get to choose what pile. does that make sense? cuz it did in my head lol.
i tested it several times. this deck once began when i first bought the "devour for power" commander deck and fact or fiction was already in it. i've played it quite alot before but as my deck got better, my opponents got smarter. its not that good anymore so it got cut.
but hmm, if someone can really convince me to play it, take a shot. i'll just add it on cards to consider for now. thank you for all your insight so far
Even against good players fact or fiction is instant so you can wait to see if you need to counter first. Even if they split it perfectly at worst you get the best card of your top 5 at instant speed. Cut disentomb for regrowth it's the worst card in your whole deck ATM IMO Only returns a creature and not to play ick .Your builds looking alot more solid now Then it did last week
i don't know :/ i'm really not a fan of letting my opponents decide what i get. if fact or fiction works for you then that's good. its just really not something i would add. i like denying people what to have though lmao
and hmm, i just realized i did have disentomb. i use it when they send my seedborn to the grave somehow. lol i'll take that out then. thanks!
i'll update the deck once i get a hold of a regrowth!
Still looking to improve your build becuase i like it:) as suggested before regrowth is cheap and strictly better than natures spiral, but as mentioned disentomb is worse than both if you really like the effect tortured existence can be trickey id just drop that slot for regrowth and replace the other recrustion slot with restock or yawgmoths will spirlas not bad though cant hit any of your counters but eh all suns dawn i think is another better one they are all higher cmc though. for the consecrated sphinx wonder looks to be a decent cut for it. now on to lands. lets get rid of a few basics vivid lands are cheap there are also cheap duals you could drop 3 of each basic for some cheap lands and get some better consistancy and maybe even a few more utilty lands. ie phyrexian tower reliquery tower volrath's stronghold. on rend flesh heros demise and go for the throat one should be mealstrom pulse. i also feel phyrexian arena or rhystic study or possibly fact or fiction to help fill your hand back up before you drop damia fact or fiction is cheap and an auto include in msot blue deck in a deck with counters IT IS. hmmm let me keep thinking well thats it for now unless you get $ for a jace the mind sculptor hes one of my new additions and already one of best cards in the deck i see why he was so expensive now . on a side note the dekc keeps looking better i like it alot wee gonna get it to the points your friends really dont
okay i tried my best to read this post rofl
so firstly, regrowth is not cheap. lmao. that thing cost $50+ if you can even get one since none are available in my area and i can't buy things online.. (i guess i should point that out on the first post). i would DEFINITELY add it but I am iffy on the price tag.
maelstrom pulse, same reason as treachery tbh, i want it and it will be added to the deck once i can afford it.
i thought about using less basic land and adding other lands specially the ones have hideaway like mosswort bridge. i'll be trying to get those and get rid of 1 basic land from each. then maybe one of each vivids aswell.
i really don't like fact or fiction due to the fact that my deck is a "jerK" deck to my group. and they will give me the worsts options. trust me i tried it.
and yeah i wanted mind sculptor but that price tag is way expensive :/
thank you very much for your suggestions and opinion!
I just noticed no consecrated sphinx that should be picked up with treachery it's amazing and broken as hell with your Leyline muse combo.
i don't like consecrated sphinx due to it being a creature. my play group plays alot of creature removal and my deck already has enough creatures to protect. i'd much prefer to play mana reflection since my play group doesnt run alot of enchantment removal. but i don't have room for it.
Treachery is same mana as mind control just better sorry for my post they are almost all fronphone at work or in class ie right now I'm driving . The problem with plauge wind Is how bad it is in opening hand at least u can cycle decree I dunno u seem sold on it it can be great how has the card actuly been for you in my mind a 9 mana card should win me the game or come damn close ie if I resolve time stretch or tooth and nail in my deck I win more than like 95% of games. I dunno if your meta games alot slower than mine it might be good who do you play against I play vs ghave zur kahlia and kikjiki and when I need a wrath my last worry is if u can keep one if my guys on the board . I wk f beat this dead horse anymore though people aka
Want me to cut malAkir bloodwitch and it's consistantly one of the best cards in my deck do I'll trust you
lol don't drive and text -.-
i don't want you dying just because you want to comment on the deck lmao
but hmm, my play group allow for mulligans where in we don't have to draw less. so i never open a hand with plague wind in it. plague wind however IS a game winner. as soon as i cast that (if i even have to since i probably already countered/destroyed all their stuff) my opponents give up. its alot more game changing than a day of judgment or a black sun zenith or a genesis wave.
my play group runs these decks:
zurr, kaalia, sisay, rafiq, riku, norin, nath, glissa, rhys, skillix (or w'e its spelled), that reanimator general and many others i can't fully remember them all since there's alot of us in my play group. all their decks are fast.
also i added primeval titan due to its usefulness. and i'll add treachery to the deck once i can afford it!
Why arent you running Grave or Primeval titan? I think you need some fatties in your deck to beat people up with. You can run whatever you want to beat them down with but I think you have far too many counters in the deck and not enough threats.
those are only some of the threats this deck poses. this deck is full of threats so i suggest you take another look.
i don't like grave since it only gives me tokens which i don't really need that badly. i'm already considering primeval titan. i just don't know what to remove for it but he will go in the deck. maybe i'll remove Birds of paradise for him to fulfill that threatening role.
thanks for the opinion though. i always like hearing opinions so i can try and see flaws.
lets see.. i'm running blue.. meaning i got tons of counter spells and i can make all my spells have flash... and people don't normally like their stuff being countered..
then i'm running black so i also have destruction capabilities for anything that goes through... and people don't normally like it when their stuff gets destroyed...
then i'm running green meaning i'm capable of getting enough mana to do whatever shenanigans i wish to implement...
put them all together and you have a deck that is capable of almost anything really.
now add Damia's draw power and i got myself unlimited supply of resources.
playing against me is irritating. specially since i have no intentions for politics.
the problem isnt simply because i get overwhelmed by tons of creatures or spells that make me lose life. i can handle those things. in fact this deck is made solely for the purpose or preventing those things.
but you gotta factor in, this is a multiplayer EDH. that's at least 2 people focusing me down with everything they've got due to the fact that they simply hate my deck. As I stated, it doesnt matter if someone else has a more threatening deck than mine.
that is a typical game for me. in fact, that is the only type of match up i always get unless i'm against new people who don't know my deck.
now if i was playing single 1 vs 1, i have yet to find anyone capable of beating me. perhaps if you'd like, we can easily do a match through skype so i can show you what i mean.
Now tell me again, why should i play something that makes me lose life when I'm being focused 100% of the time by 2-3 players? if this wasnt the case, i'd use them, trust me.
for a combo that takes 2 cards that i would need to either tutor for, that's difficult. i already got so much other things to tutor.
hmm, i'd say $20 on cards max per 3 months.
i don't like phrexian arena/necropotence because it cost health to draw. i don't know if you read the first post completely or skimmed it but on the match history, i mentioned that on every single game i had i was focused down. it doesn't matter if the other guy is playing poison or other broken cards/mechanics/combos.
for that reason, i can't have anything that cost health to use except for reanimate. staying alive is hard enough, i don't need to speed up my death by damaging myself too.
i was thinking of adding bribery to replace rite of replication, what do you think? although rhystic study seems tempting.
and i'm not sure, piranha marsh is there for lols to be honest. i was gonna replace it with a duo land. just wasn't sure which one yet. maybe the come to play tapped unless pay 2.
hmm, you would have to look at the thread posts to see my argument for daze. its very useful to me. that added fear to your opponent is alot more useful than you think.
and thanks, i completely didn't notice it was a sorcery, thanks! fixing it now.
i won the tournament with only 1 loss out of 5. fairly solid right now. it can definitely improve still however. desperately need more ways to prevent destruction. there's only so much counter spells until i run out.
definitely want rite of replication out from the deck and add planar portal instead or something. what do you guys think?
i actually play tested an oracle of mul daya and i will be removing azusa for her. i noticed that it made my deck so much faster and made sure that i don't draw a land. the show top of deck isn't much of a problem to be honest.
i just played in a tournament and won. mana wasn't my problem. it was the cards i need to get that i had problems with. i often sat there going "i could use a leyline or i could use a plague wind or an O. stone" but i wasn't drawing my tutors which sucked. but hmm, i'll report what happened in the tournament and what cards i need to change.
you know you can link the card when you post right? o.o
i'm guessing you were on phone again lmao
so dream fracture. i took a look at it and i wen't "why would i give my opponents a chance to get something good?" cancel is just so much better. sure it lets me draw a card but i'm still giving my opponent a card regardless. not worth it.
alright, well i thought about hinder. the fact that i can tuck a general into a deck with it is nice but hmm..
not sure if i wanna remove cancel for it. cancel is more solid in my opinion since i can target other things with it and i will be sure to have gotten rid of it unless my enemy is playing graveyard.
i would much rather have a cancel in my hand when i don't have any other counter spells left in my hand besides cancel when my opponent tries to wrath of god the field or use that annoying card that steals all my lands or confusion in the ranks
arcanis the omnipotent used to be in the deck. him plus seedborn muse was awesome but i got rid of him because i added teferi. i'm not sure if i want him back yet but it'd be pretty cool.
your friends are right, if i don't have seedborn muse in my hand, i tutor it when i can. i have alot of combos that work around her and to protect her and in return, she helps me to get cards to cast damia/protect damia.
not sure if i want sylvan library. i want to have cards that are useful in all stages of the game and doesnt become useless. mana reflection would be a much better option imo but that's already being considered. if i didn't draw library early, it becomes a useless card in my hand late game.
if only politics existed in my playgroup. they all hate playing against my Damia deck lol. but hmm, not sure if i want it cuz i take damage for the creatures destroyed.. and that's not something i would want since my deck generates alot of hate already so i need all the health i have to survive their attempts to overthrow Damia from her throne.
Thanks for the ideas guys
hmm, i'll put that on cards to consider. i'm not quite sure if i want it yet and what to remove for it yet. thanks!
i understand. what i meant was that i can't choose which cards goes to what pile, i only get to choose what pile. does that make sense? cuz it did in my head lol.
i tested it several times. this deck once began when i first bought the "devour for power" commander deck and fact or fiction was already in it. i've played it quite alot before but as my deck got better, my opponents got smarter. its not that good anymore so it got cut.
but hmm, if someone can really convince me to play it, take a shot. i'll just add it on cards to consider for now. thank you for all your insight so far
i don't know :/ i'm really not a fan of letting my opponents decide what i get. if fact or fiction works for you then that's good. its just really not something i would add. i like denying people what to have though lmao
and hmm, i just realized i did have disentomb. i use it when they send my seedborn to the grave somehow. lol i'll take that out then. thanks!
i'll update the deck once i get a hold of a regrowth!
O.o
OMG! wow i'm definitely getting one when i find it! but hmm, do you think i should replace reanimate and add that card instead?
updated the deck again!
okay i tried my best to read this post rofl
so firstly, regrowth is not cheap. lmao. that thing cost $50+ if you can even get one since none are available in my area and i can't buy things online.. (i guess i should point that out on the first post). i would DEFINITELY add it but I am iffy on the price tag.
maelstrom pulse, same reason as treachery tbh, i want it and it will be added to the deck once i can afford it.
i thought about using less basic land and adding other lands specially the ones have hideaway like mosswort bridge. i'll be trying to get those and get rid of 1 basic land from each. then maybe one of each vivids aswell.
i really don't like fact or fiction due to the fact that my deck is a "jerK" deck to my group. and they will give me the worsts options. trust me i tried it.
and yeah i wanted mind sculptor but that price tag is way expensive :/
thank you very much for your suggestions and opinion!
i don't like consecrated sphinx due to it being a creature. my play group plays alot of creature removal and my deck already has enough creatures to protect. i'd much prefer to play mana reflection since my play group doesnt run alot of enchantment removal. but i don't have room for it.
lol don't drive and text -.-
i don't want you dying just because you want to comment on the deck lmao
but hmm, my play group allow for mulligans where in we don't have to draw less. so i never open a hand with plague wind in it. plague wind however IS a game winner. as soon as i cast that (if i even have to since i probably already countered/destroyed all their stuff) my opponents give up. its alot more game changing than a day of judgment or a black sun zenith or a genesis wave.
my play group runs these decks:
zurr, kaalia, sisay, rafiq, riku, norin, nath, glissa, rhys, skillix (or w'e its spelled), that reanimator general and many others i can't fully remember them all since there's alot of us in my play group. all their decks are fast.
also i added primeval titan due to its usefulness. and i'll add treachery to the deck once i can afford it!
so you don't find a seedborn muse a threat? what if that's combine with an avatar of woe? and you don't think sheoldred, whispering one is threatening? perhaps vigor? did i mention teferi, mage of zhalfir is also here and can be casted for 4 mana - ohh and by that i mean all my creatures can be casted for 4 mana with the help of quicksilver amulet? or maybe you'd find a mimic vat with a rune-scarred demon imprinted on it pretty threatening?
those are only some of the threats this deck poses. this deck is full of threats so i suggest you take another look.
i don't like grave since it only gives me tokens which i don't really need that badly. i'm already considering primeval titan. i just don't know what to remove for it but he will go in the deck. maybe i'll remove Birds of paradise for him to fulfill that threatening role.
thanks for the opinion though. i always like hearing opinions so i can try and see flaws.