When did we say we were ordering them?
Also nice argument etc
Please go collect your SCG paycheck.
Because obviously anybody who does not want to see the secondary market gutted so Jim can play with pretty Island proxy's at his kitchen table works for SCG. The only checks I cash from Star City are for cashing 5k's
I have a feeling that these counterfeits are going to be terrible quality and you guys are getting scammed by Mr. Huang. I sure hope so, it would serve you guys right for your GREED.
In most countries, owning counterfeit goods is not a crime, so long as you don't try to sell them. If you're referring to the practices of the printing company, then there are numerous utilitarian arguments as to why their activities are a good thing for the market (hence this threat). Legality has nothing to do with morality or justice, and is -- at the end of the day -- about arriving at a solution that is commonly agreeable to most parties. In this case, WotC have failed their market, and the inevitable end result is counterfeiting. From the perspective of a player, I see this only as a good thing, and the divided response to this is an indication that mine is a common opinion.
Not sure what a utilitarian argument is but I'm sure it's a lot of words so please spare me.
Just because Wizards has chosen to uphold the reserved list does not justify what you guys are doing. It's called international copyright law and yes if you knowingly purchase them you are breaking the law. Don't be naive, people are going sell/trade these once they get there hands on them. Even if your side constitutes a majority(and I really doubt that it does) that does not mean that you are in the right.
Every pro counterfeiting argument comes down to nothing more then an attempt to justify something completely ILLEGAL. I do want more people playing Legacy but not if they are just going to use illegal bootleg cards to do it.
Bring on the counterfeits- January 19th can't come soon enough. 55,000 is nice, but I'd like to see even more. Let's get every tournament staple to the point where it's affordable. Let's beat Wizards to the punch and sell playsets of every chase rare in Born of the Gods before the prerelease at a fraction of the cost. Most importantly of all, let's make them undetectable, so we can use them in tournaments.
One thing I think would be really helpful to counterfeiters would be a StarCityGames-style website where you can buy playsets of singles. Buying 500 copies of Underground Sea is nice, but I don't think I'll ever be able to use that many. For the security of those running the site, it should be set up on the anonymous TOR network, and accept payment only in Bitcoin or other cryptocurrencies to bypass e-commerce sites such as Paypal.
Have not seen you say one thing even remotely constuctive. Such an obvious troll. How can MTGS let posts like this stay up?
Yes. The more realistic and much less dramatic version of those events would be preferable to me over not being able to afford most of the things I want to play.
However, again, as I am being careful to point out, the best solution of all is for none of those things to happen, and to still be able to afford what I want to play at the same time, which results from WOTC simply reprinting things.
But yes, I would prefer being able to play 10x more deck varieties more so than caring about pro tours and FNMs I don't attend, or about the "evolution" of eternal formats at a rate or 2-3 cards a year at best, etc.
It might not be the best long long term, but by the time it's not better, I'll probably be bored of Magic either way.
Every argument from the pro counterfeiting camp has just been attempts to justify something that is completely unethical
"Wizards did this and starcity did that so we totally have the right to ruin magic". Wizards not overturning the reserved list does not somehow make subverting international law suddenly alright.
The mindset of the average speculator. Totaly unsurprising to tell the truth.
I love that cards cost as much as they do. Drinking 18yo scotch and firing guns is good but nothing i mean nothing gives me an inflated sense of self esteem like going to FNM with a binder worth the price of a fairly nice car and using revised Tundras to light my cuban cigar's cause hey they were SP anway.
I have been picking up as many cheap Stoneforge's as I could for like a month does it make me a bad person? No... it makes me awesome and puts money in my pocket. Sorry I ruined everything for everybody forever... my bad. I actually find the selling end of speculating to be rather tedious but guess what... Magic is expensive if you don't have a ton of disposable income then you have to do something to make magic pay for magic. If you hate trading then get creative. Become a judge they get all kinds of free shwag, or maybe get a job in a game store, hell go to wall mart and load up your pockets like some gypsy highwayman, do whatever I don't care just please for the love of God stop complaining so god damn much. Thank You
=
And to tell the truth I'd rather give my money to the ilegalized criminals making money off of stolen IP, than the legalized criminals making money out of market cornering. Neither has a moral upper ground for me but at least one hasn't spent the past decade ruining the game quickly with their anti-capitalist, artificial scarcity tactics.
First of all legalized criminal is an oxymoron I have no idea who are you talking about Star City? Second, knowingly purchasing counterfeit goods is a crime. You are the one lacking a moral high ground in this case. Past decade ruining the game? Must be talking about wizards. WOTC is far from perfect but I have to believe that Wizards of the coast cares more about the long term health of the game and it's players then some random Chinese bootleggers. After all Wizards puts up with whiners and misanthropes like you and this guy
Magicman657
I straight up emailed WotC customer support and told them that I am actually hoping that the criminals succeed at producing undetectable fakes.
@Crimeo
Because you can't use proxies for sanctioned legacy. Man I miss the good old days when people used to bootleg **** them self's. If you want nice proxies for Cube/EDH you can make them without to much effort and I bet it would be cheaper then getting them from our new Chinese overlords.
@t3kn33k
They are an organization involved in crime call it what ever you want not going to argue semantics with you.
Just the general attitude of some of the people posting in this thread makes me more worried for Magic then any counterfeiter.
If you guys would honestly rather have cheap cards then new cards you are being extremely ignorant and shortsighted.
The guys that really want to play legacy I can at least understand that. What really baffles me are the guys who just seem to want pretty proxies for EDH/cube even if they have to suppport Chinese organized crime to doing it.
Because obviously anybody who does not want to see the secondary market gutted so Jim can play with pretty Island proxy's at his kitchen table works for SCG. The only checks I cash from Star City are for cashing 5k's
Not sure what a utilitarian argument is but I'm sure it's a lot of words so please spare me.
Just because Wizards has chosen to uphold the reserved list does not justify what you guys are doing. It's called international copyright law and yes if you knowingly purchase them you are breaking the law. Don't be naive, people are going sell/trade these once they get there hands on them. Even if your side constitutes a majority(and I really doubt that it does) that does not mean that you are in the right.
Have not seen you say one thing even remotely constuctive. Such an obvious troll. How can MTGS let posts like this stay up?
yep guy totally care's about Magic
"Wizards did this and starcity did that so we totally have the right to ruin magic". Wizards not overturning the reserved list does not somehow make subverting international law suddenly alright.
This guy clearly did not find my attempt at humor funny Moderator pls
Troll infraction issued. -Xen
I love that cards cost as much as they do. Drinking 18yo scotch and firing guns is good but nothing i mean nothing gives me an inflated sense of self esteem like going to FNM with a binder worth the price of a fairly nice car and using revised Tundras to light my cuban cigar's cause hey they were SP anway.
Infraction issued for trolling. -Xen
First of all legalized criminal is an oxymoron I have no idea who are you talking about Star City? Second, knowingly purchasing counterfeit goods is a crime. You are the one lacking a moral high ground in this case. Past decade ruining the game? Must be talking about wizards. WOTC is far from perfect but I have to believe that Wizards of the coast cares more about the long term health of the game and it's players then some random Chinese bootleggers. After all Wizards puts up with whiners and misanthropes like you and this guy
Because you can't use proxies for sanctioned legacy. Man I miss the good old days when people used to bootleg **** them self's. If you want nice proxies for Cube/EDH you can make them without to much effort and I bet it would be cheaper then getting them from our new Chinese overlords.
@t3kn33k
They are an organization involved in crime call it what ever you want not going to argue semantics with you.
If you guys would honestly rather have cheap cards then new cards you are being extremely ignorant and shortsighted.
The guys that really want to play legacy I can at least understand that. What really baffles me are the guys who just seem to want pretty proxies for EDH/cube even if they have to suppport Chinese organized crime to doing it.