ive been tinkering around with my deck a bit, here's the latest version of it.
any advice is appreciated. ill be updating the deck list as i make changes to it.
I've recently put together a goblin deck and I'm always looking for ways to improve it.
The deck I usually play is a Vintage B/U control deck. My kids are starting to play Magic, but a lot of the cards I use in my control deck are pretty complex, and I spend half the game searching my library for one card or another. I want this Goblin deck to be made up of cards that are easier to understand, and I'd really like to avoid any cards that have me search my library. I still want the deck to be competitive and fun enough for me to play with and not get bored.
Here's the deck:
Hows it going? Ive been working on a Goblin deck and I have a few rules questions.
Generally speaking, does Goblin Warchief give himself haste?
and now a more specific question about that:
I have a Goblin Lackey on the table. I attack with him and damage my opponent. I put a Goblin Warchief into play.
Can I attack with the Goblin Warchief on that same turn even though I've already attacked and damaged my opponent or do I have to wait until the next turn even though he has haste?
Goblin Chieftain. It says "Other Goblin creatures you control get +1/+1 and have haste." I assume this to mean that Goblin Chieftain does not give himself +1/+1. If i have one Goblin Chieftain in play he is 2/2. However, if I have 2 Goblin Chieftains in play, do they each give the other one +1/+1 and both become 3/3?
im sure that this is easier then im making it, but ive been reading some of the articles (stories) in uncharted realms. "catching up" and other stories that are telling a story about liliana and jace. is this the only place these stories are released? is there a book or a web site that i can read all of lianas stories in order?
Ive been playing magic since 1994. At certain points in that time, some of my cards have been damaged. Most notably a Mana Drain and a Force of Will were damaged but not destroyed when beer got onto the cards and into the sleeves they were in. At the time, both cards combined cost about $60 bucks if i had to replace them.
I like my cards, and really enjoy playing magic, but if something similar were to happen today, i could never afford to replace the cards. Even more significant then the loss of my precious cardboard, is the fact that these cards that i payed very little for now represent a year or 2 of college for my daughter (in my mind at least. well have to see what happens when the time comes)
Every single card in my little metal deck box is a photo copy of my actual card. I started just by making proxies for the very valuable cards, but I could really feel the difference between my proxies and an actual card, even in the sleeves. Im not trying to cheat anyone, even in casual games, so i made proxies for all 60 cards in the deck. I <snip>. The proxies look great, and you have to look twice to tell theyre not actual cards. I put a lot of effort into them to make them look authentic, I used cheap alpha cards for proxies of my more expensive alpha cards (those corners are hard to shape with a scissor) Even the foils can be proxied up pretty well if youre an arts and crafts kind of person. However, my copies could hardly be considered counterfeit cards, anyone who has ever touched a real magic card could easily feel that these are fakes.
I havent played in a tournament in a very long time, and i dont know if i ever will again, but the knowledge that my deck is worth more then both of my cars combined, gives me pause every time i consider taking my real cards out of my house. There would have to some kind of major incentive (other then a fun afternoon playing magic) to convince me to take even a small risk that something could potentially happen to the cards. it's unfortunate to have to think that way, but i do.
i wish there were a way to 'resister' the cards with the DCI or some other entity, so that I would be allowed to use my proxies in actual events.
Anyway, that's my 2 cents.
Just for fun, here are some of my proxies. The foils look a little pink in the scans, but they dont look like that in real life.
How's it going? The title pretty much sums up my question, but here's a more detailed version.
On my first turn I have 7 cards in my hand. 5 of them are inconsequential, the 2 that matter in this case are Library of Alexandria and Blightsteel Colossus.
I draw my card (8 cards in hand)
I play the Library of Alexandria (7 cards in hand)
Then tap the Library of Alexandria to draw a card (8 cards in hand)
Then I choose to end my turn, even though I could play a 0 cast artifact if I chose to.
I have 8 cards in my hand so I have to discard 1. I choose to discard the Blightsteel Colossus.
Am I correct when I say that Blightsteel Colossus will get shuffled back into my library instead of going to my graveyard, or does the fact that Im discarding it change things somehow?
Similarly, if I sacrifice Blightsteel Colossus for some reason (such as to a Lord of the Pit), it gets shuffled back into my library instead of going to my graveyard, correct?
Ive always loved Dark Ritual, but Ive finally accepted that seeing my opponents hand is better then 2 extra B.
I took out the third Tezzeret the Seeker so i could squeeze in 4 Duress AND the Mana Crypt. I hate to take out one of my few win condition cards, but at 3UU, hes hard to cast on the first few turns, so maybe 2 will work out fine.
I took out 2 Watery Grave to add 2 more fetch lands. I know conventional wisdom says i should loose the other 2 for a Swamp and an island but with so few lands that actually produce mana, I like the B / U option that Watery Grave gives me.
Lol. Really im having a hard enough time just sorting out the main deck with 2 colors. Ill have to leave the third color and the sideboard for another time.
In your example where i loose the watery graves, that only leaves me with 6 lands that i can tap for black or blue mana. That seems light to me, am i wrong?
I like strip mine as much as the next guy...but if i had to pick between that and the academy, right now the academy seems more useful.
Id like to add some duress cards to the seck
I do have a lot of mana sources in the deck right now (28). Im Already planning on taking out one of the dark rituals and replacing it with a mana crypt. I could take out the other 3 dark rituals and replace them with duress. That still leaves me with 25 mana sources. However ill miss the dark rituals for the early game mind twist.
One other place im unsure of is my planeswalkers. Im running 3 jace the mind sculpter and 3 tezzeret the seeker is 2 of each of these enough? Jace is pretty much always useful, but i sometimes find tezz just sitting in my hand.
Thanks for listening
I know Mana Crypt is a popular card, I just don't like it. The randomness of it goes against everything I've ever worked on with a deck of magic cards to make my deck as consistent as possible. I'm sure its better then I think it is, even if you loose every coin flip, it will take 7 turns to kill you..... I'll reconsider it.
Assuming that the Mind Twist is staying, then I think the Dark Rituals have to stay as well.
I will consider what you've said about replacing the Mana Drain with some other counter spells, but right now I really find the Mana Drain useful. Mental Misstep is obviously great for being able to play it with no mana, but seems very limited in terms of what it can actually counter. After the first few turns, Mana Drain seems much more useful to me. Spell Pierce is only 1 U less then Mana Drain. Which is obviously awesome, if you only have U available, but it can't stop creatures and its kind of a "soft" counter, in that it's counter can be pretty easily countered. Flusterstorm is also obviously a very nice counter. The storm ability is great, as is it's casting cost. It's drawbacks are similar to the ones I've listed for Spell Pierce. Gifts Ungiven I know its a different world then when i was playing heavily, and cards in your graveyard arent as gone as they used to be, but Ill never feel good about giving my opponent the chance to make decisions about my hand. Maybe ill come around at some point in the future. Treasure Cruise I havent really had much time to consider it. I do like the card, the advantages are obvious. Even though I don't have too much graveyard interaction in my deck, I do enjoy the Yawgmoth's Will. To me, Treasure Cruise seems to be at odds with Yawgmoth's Will. It's actual mana cost is very high, and exiling 7 cards from my graveyard seems like I'm hamstringing Yawgmoth's Will. It's restricted, so Im sure there are ways to use it that I havent thought of, but at first glance it seems like it has to be one or the other with these 2 cards. Gitaxian Probe another great no mana card. If I was going to add the "look at opponents hand" aspect to my deck, I feel like Id have to put at least 3 and probably 4 in to make it a consistent tool for me, rather then just 1 or 2 and have it be a little extra boost once in a while. What 4 cards would i take out?
When I was first playing in the late 90s, I would try to have answers for every specific threat in my decks. Something for creatures, enchantments, land destruction, hand destruction, direct damage.... and on and on and on. I got away from the game for a while and when I came back to it, there were just so many new threats added to the old ones. Planeswalkers, graveyard decks, etc. It seems impossible to have a good answer for everything. You're totally right, a bunch of artifacts or Dack Fayden could easily ruin my day, Im sure dozens of other cards could too. Unless theyre not in your hand. That's why Mind twist is so attractive to me. As I'm sure everyone is well aware, getting 4 or more mana on the first turn is pretty common. Mind Twisting for 3-7 cards on the first 1 or 2 turns is an awesome way to start a game. If you've never tried it I highly recommend it.
This is a deck I've been playing in one version or another for 20 years. I'm always looking for advice and suggestions on how to make it better. I will be updating the deck list when I make changes to it.
Last Updated 11/4/2017
Some other specific questions I have since Ive been playing around with the deck in this configuration.
-The Time Vault / Voltaic Key combo is really the best thing ever. Once it's rolling, nothing else matters. Do people ever play with more then 1 Voltaic Key in the deck? just to make the combo a little easier to get out. My Tezzeret the Seekers work with Time Vault too, but they cost a lot more mana then Voltaic Key.
up until recently Ive had either 4 Darkslick Shores or 4 Underground River. Ive taken 1 of those cards out to put in 1 Tolarian Academy. I hate to take land out of the deck, so Im looking for ways to turn my 3 Darkslick Shores/Underground River slots into something more useful. Right now Im thinking about putting in a Strip Mine instead of one of the 3 lands. That way I can use the mana if i need it, or the land destruction if I wind up with more mana then I need.
any other suggestions about the land in my deck?
Maybe 2 Wastelands to replace the other 2 Darkslick Shores. Wasteland is kind of like Strip Mine light. But I worry about not having B or U if I take out all 3 of the Darkslick Shores for lands that only produce colorless mana.
also, which do people think is better Darkslick Shores or Underground River?
What do you mean by 2 for 1ed with blood lust? I'm not famulair with that term.
Youre saying no direct damage spells at all or a different direct damage spell then the torch?
Thanks.
any advice is appreciated. ill be updating the deck list as i make changes to it.
I've recently put together a goblin deck and I'm always looking for ways to improve it.
The deck I usually play is a Vintage B/U control deck. My kids are starting to play Magic, but a lot of the cards I use in my control deck are pretty complex, and I spend half the game searching my library for one card or another. I want this Goblin deck to be made up of cards that are easier to understand, and I'd really like to avoid any cards that have me search my library. I still want the deck to be competitive and fun enough for me to play with and not get bored.
Here's the deck:
4 Goblin Lackey
3 Legion Loyalist
4 Goblin Piledriver
4 Warren Instigator
4 Goblin Warchief
4 Goblin Chieftain
3 Goblin Ringleader
4 Krenko, Mob Boss
4 Goblin War Strike
22 Mountain
Thanks in advance for your ideas
Generally speaking, does Goblin Warchief give himself haste?
and now a more specific question about that:
I have a Goblin Lackey on the table. I attack with him and damage my opponent. I put a Goblin Warchief into play.
Can I attack with the Goblin Warchief on that same turn even though I've already attacked and damaged my opponent or do I have to wait until the next turn even though he has haste?
Goblin Chieftain. It says "Other Goblin creatures you control get +1/+1 and have haste." I assume this to mean that Goblin Chieftain does not give himself +1/+1. If i have one Goblin Chieftain in play he is 2/2. However, if I have 2 Goblin Chieftains in play, do they each give the other one +1/+1 and both become 3/3?
Thank You.
are these stories parts of novels, or new works?
thanks for the help
Ive been playing magic since 1994. At certain points in that time, some of my cards have been damaged. Most notably a Mana Drain and a Force of Will were damaged but not destroyed when beer got onto the cards and into the sleeves they were in. At the time, both cards combined cost about $60 bucks if i had to replace them.
I like my cards, and really enjoy playing magic, but if something similar were to happen today, i could never afford to replace the cards. Even more significant then the loss of my precious cardboard, is the fact that these cards that i payed very little for now represent a year or 2 of college for my daughter (in my mind at least. well have to see what happens when the time comes)
Every single card in my little metal deck box is a photo copy of my actual card. I started just by making proxies for the very valuable cards, but I could really feel the difference between my proxies and an actual card, even in the sleeves. Im not trying to cheat anyone, even in casual games, so i made proxies for all 60 cards in the deck. I <snip>. The proxies look great, and you have to look twice to tell theyre not actual cards. I put a lot of effort into them to make them look authentic, I used cheap alpha cards for proxies of my more expensive alpha cards (those corners are hard to shape with a scissor) Even the foils can be proxied up pretty well if youre an arts and crafts kind of person. However, my copies could hardly be considered counterfeit cards, anyone who has ever touched a real magic card could easily feel that these are fakes.
I havent played in a tournament in a very long time, and i dont know if i ever will again, but the knowledge that my deck is worth more then both of my cars combined, gives me pause every time i consider taking my real cards out of my house. There would have to some kind of major incentive (other then a fun afternoon playing magic) to convince me to take even a small risk that something could potentially happen to the cards. it's unfortunate to have to think that way, but i do.
i wish there were a way to 'resister' the cards with the DCI or some other entity, so that I would be allowed to use my proxies in actual events.
Anyway, that's my 2 cents.
Just for fun, here are some of my proxies. The foils look a little pink in the scans, but they dont look like that in real life.
Photos removed.
- Rai
On my first turn I have 7 cards in my hand. 5 of them are inconsequential, the 2 that matter in this case are Library of Alexandria and Blightsteel Colossus.
I draw my card (8 cards in hand)
I play the Library of Alexandria (7 cards in hand)
Then tap the Library of Alexandria to draw a card (8 cards in hand)
Then I choose to end my turn, even though I could play a 0 cast artifact if I chose to.
I have 8 cards in my hand so I have to discard 1. I choose to discard the Blightsteel Colossus.
Am I correct when I say that Blightsteel Colossus will get shuffled back into my library instead of going to my graveyard, or does the fact that Im discarding it change things somehow?
Similarly, if I sacrifice Blightsteel Colossus for some reason (such as to a Lord of the Pit), it gets shuffled back into my library instead of going to my graveyard, correct?
thanks for your help
(23 Land and artifacts that act like land)
4 Underground Sea
2 Watery Grave
4 Polluted Delta
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Flooded Strand
1 Library of Alexandria
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Sol Ring
(16 Disruption)
4 Force of Will
4 Mana Drain
4 Mind Twist
4 Duress
(5 Planeswalkers)
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Tezzeret the Seeker
(5 Tutors)
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Imperial Seal
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
1 Ponder
(6 cards I just have to have)
1 Tinker
1 Blightsteel Colossus
1 Time Vault
1 Voltaic Key
1 Time Walk
1 Yawgmoth's Will
these are the changes Ive made since the last time I posted:
-2 Watery Grave
-4 Dark Ritual
-1 Tezzeret the Seeker
+1 Scalding Tarn
+1 Flooded Strand
+4 Duress
+1 Mana Crypt
Ive always loved Dark Ritual, but Ive finally accepted that seeing my opponents hand is better then 2 extra B.
I took out the third Tezzeret the Seeker so i could squeeze in 4 Duress AND the Mana Crypt. I hate to take out one of my few win condition cards, but at 3UU, hes hard to cast on the first few turns, so maybe 2 will work out fine.
I took out 2 Watery Grave to add 2 more fetch lands. I know conventional wisdom says i should loose the other 2 for a Swamp and an island but with so few lands that actually produce mana, I like the B / U option that Watery Grave gives me.
Im certainly open to other suggestions...
thanks
In your example where i loose the watery graves, that only leaves me with 6 lands that i can tap for black or blue mana. That seems light to me, am i wrong?
I like strip mine as much as the next guy...but if i had to pick between that and the academy, right now the academy seems more useful.
Id like to add some duress cards to the seck
I do have a lot of mana sources in the deck right now (28). Im Already planning on taking out one of the dark rituals and replacing it with a mana crypt. I could take out the other 3 dark rituals and replace them with duress. That still leaves me with 25 mana sources. However ill miss the dark rituals for the early game mind twist.
One other place im unsure of is my planeswalkers. Im running 3 jace the mind sculpter and 3 tezzeret the seeker is 2 of each of these enough? Jace is pretty much always useful, but i sometimes find tezz just sitting in my hand.
Thanks for listening
right now, ive got 15
4 Underground Sea
4 Watery Grave
4 Polluted Delta
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Library of Alexandria
how would you change the list?
thanks
I know Mana Crypt is a popular card, I just don't like it. The randomness of it goes against everything I've ever worked on with a deck of magic cards to make my deck as consistent as possible. I'm sure its better then I think it is, even if you loose every coin flip, it will take 7 turns to kill you..... I'll reconsider it.
Assuming that the Mind Twist is staying, then I think the Dark Rituals have to stay as well.
I will consider what you've said about replacing the Mana Drain with some other counter spells, but right now I really find the Mana Drain useful.
Mental Misstep is obviously great for being able to play it with no mana, but seems very limited in terms of what it can actually counter. After the first few turns, Mana Drain seems much more useful to me.
Spell Pierce is only 1 U less then Mana Drain. Which is obviously awesome, if you only have U available, but it can't stop creatures and its kind of a "soft" counter, in that it's counter can be pretty easily countered.
Flusterstorm is also obviously a very nice counter. The storm ability is great, as is it's casting cost. It's drawbacks are similar to the ones I've listed for Spell Pierce.
Gifts Ungiven I know its a different world then when i was playing heavily, and cards in your graveyard arent as gone as they used to be, but Ill never feel good about giving my opponent the chance to make decisions about my hand. Maybe ill come around at some point in the future.
Treasure Cruise I havent really had much time to consider it. I do like the card, the advantages are obvious. Even though I don't have too much graveyard interaction in my deck, I do enjoy the Yawgmoth's Will. To me, Treasure Cruise seems to be at odds with Yawgmoth's Will. It's actual mana cost is very high, and exiling 7 cards from my graveyard seems like I'm hamstringing Yawgmoth's Will. It's restricted, so Im sure there are ways to use it that I havent thought of, but at first glance it seems like it has to be one or the other with these 2 cards.
Gitaxian Probe another great no mana card. If I was going to add the "look at opponents hand" aspect to my deck, I feel like Id have to put at least 3 and probably 4 in to make it a consistent tool for me, rather then just 1 or 2 and have it be a little extra boost once in a while. What 4 cards would i take out?
When I was first playing in the late 90s, I would try to have answers for every specific threat in my decks. Something for creatures, enchantments, land destruction, hand destruction, direct damage.... and on and on and on. I got away from the game for a while and when I came back to it, there were just so many new threats added to the old ones. Planeswalkers, graveyard decks, etc. It seems impossible to have a good answer for everything. You're totally right, a bunch of artifacts or Dack Fayden could easily ruin my day, Im sure dozens of other cards could too. Unless theyre not in your hand. That's why Mind twist is so attractive to me. As I'm sure everyone is well aware, getting 4 or more mana on the first turn is pretty common. Mind Twisting for 3-7 cards on the first 1 or 2 turns is an awesome way to start a game. If you've never tried it I highly recommend it.
Thanks again for your ideas. Im considering the Mana Crypt, Treasure Cruise, and Gitaxian Probe.
Last Updated 11/4/2017
2 Tundra
2 Polluted Delta
2 Flooded Strand
1 Marsh Flats
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Library of Alexandria
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Sol Ring
4 Daze
4 Spell Pierce
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Tezzeret the Seeker
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Imperial Seal
1 Mystical Tutor
2 Personal Tutor
3 Enlightened Tutor
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
1 Ponder
1 Blightsteel Colossus
1 Time Vault
1 Voltaic Key
1 Time Walk
1 Yawgmoth's Will
Thanks for your ideas
some thing are so obvious that once you see them, it's like how could i have missed that?
ive been torturing myself about Darkslick Shores vs Underground River, when obviously it should be any of the fetchlands you mentioned instead. Just to be sure, there's no reason Scalding Tarn, Misty Rainforest, and Flooded Strand can't get me an Underground Sea or a Watery Grave, right?
everyone seems to think Blightsteel Colossus is the way to go over Darksteel Colossus and I see your point.
Some other specific questions I have since Ive been playing around with the deck in this configuration.
-The Time Vault / Voltaic Key combo is really the best thing ever. Once it's rolling, nothing else matters. Do people ever play with more then 1 Voltaic Key in the deck? just to make the combo a little easier to get out. My Tezzeret the Seekers work with Time Vault too, but they cost a lot more mana then Voltaic Key.
-Lands. Since I've changed the deck around, I find myself with a lot of extra mana in my hand at times. Im happy with most of my lands specifically:
4 Underground Sea
4 Polluted Delta
4 Watery Grave
1 Library of Alexandria
up until recently Ive had either 4 Darkslick Shores or 4 Underground River. Ive taken 1 of those cards out to put in 1 Tolarian Academy. I hate to take land out of the deck, so Im looking for ways to turn my 3 Darkslick Shores/Underground River slots into something more useful. Right now Im thinking about putting in a Strip Mine instead of one of the 3 lands. That way I can use the mana if i need it, or the land destruction if I wind up with more mana then I need.
any other suggestions about the land in my deck?
Maybe 2 Wastelands to replace the other 2 Darkslick Shores. Wasteland is kind of like Strip Mine light. But I worry about not having B or U if I take out all 3 of the Darkslick Shores for lands that only produce colorless mana.
also, which do people think is better Darkslick Shores or Underground River?
thanks again for your help