I'm in a similar situation with a meta full of random aggro (Werewolves, Infect), Humans, various control (UB, Esper), and the unexpected fun decks. I played Delver and went 2-2, one loss due to some poor play on my part and just got thrashed by Humans. I'm trying to find something else and I was thinking UB Control myself, but I'm really not sure. I feel like an aggro deck with a better long game like Zombies might not be bad. Either that or just go rogue and play UW control with lots of DoJ and O-Ring for all the random stuff people play.
I'm not really a fan of the black splash and Solemn Simulacrum, but I was thinking of going with the Sun Titan and Phantasmal Image package myself. Also gets you back the Invisible Stalkers if they wipe them away, etc.
Apparently Demon of Death's Gate is the hit sideboard tech at the SCG Invitational today. I saw some people here talking about it and basically dismissing it pretty quickly. It seems like a good card against ramp or mono-B Vampires, but past that, it seems like UW, UB, mono-red and the BR Vampire decks can deal with it well.
What are your thoughts? Metagame call?
I went ahead and picked a playset up on the cheap anyway.
First of all, I think the decision to run the cards is always based on your metagame. If you play in a heavy aggro metagame, I think running Wall of Omens and Baneslayer Angel are fine. If you're playing a lot of control mirrors and ramp decks, they aren't so great.
Plus, let's face it: A lot of pros are pooping all over WoO right now, so that is definitely going to influence a lot of people.
I'm not sure I'd play Abyssal Persecutor with the Trinket Mage toolbox when you're only running 6 "outs" with 2 Into the Roil, 1 Brittle Effigy and 3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor. Then again, I'd run 4 Persecutors too. It obviously worked out for you though! I've been thinking about a UB tempo deck similar to this for a while, but I have yet to sit down and put it together and playtest. I might start with Gerry's list and cut the toolbox.
The reason why everyone here loves permission so much is simply the fact that Matt's list was the first one to be posted as a state winner and some people started riding him cuz he made a 2 foot long explanation as to why it is good and some people dont have the common sense to think and test for themselves so they blindly went along.
Now, Im not saying that the permission lists are bad at all. Its just that they are completely different decks. I simply stated the true reason why permission is such a hype here when a lot of the top 8 lists run few counters.
Sounds like someone is jealous. Anyway...
As most people have pointed out, counters are good against most decks right now that want to drop bombs. Yes, it sucks to get Summoning Trapped, but it's also a card you can still counter or play around. It's also why Mindbreak Trap is good right now. A smart control player, against ramp, will be less likely to counter ramp creatures that will still die to removal and focus on countering the ramp spells to avoid the trap and bomb creatures that come later when you have additional counter mana up to deal with a trap.
That said, I see nothing wrong with people also playing a more "tap out" style of UB control and/or using the Trinket Mage toolbox. At the end of the day, it's whatever works for you as a player in the meta you have to work with. Obviously that plays a huge part in which one is better. It's hard to pick a specific style in a vacuum.
Personally, I'm a fan of the heavy counter style. It reminds me of old school Draw-Go, which has always been one of my favorite archetypes. I know I'm not the only one, so that probably has some impact on why people run it too.
Not so much the way I see it. Putting bad cards on the bottom, and then shuffling doesn't seem so great. Preordain does work like a fetchland when it comes to jace, cause you can put the top two on the bottom if you want, but nevertheless, preordain is worse with fetches.
I'm not sure about running it. I kind of want to, but like other people have said, it's so hard to figure out what to cut.
It depends. If you put two useless cards at the bottom, you're right that the fetch doesn't help but hinders. However, if you aggressively use Preordain (which I think is the way to go as opposed to holding it late as I've seen others advocate) and you put something at the bottom you need all of a sudden, you get an out of sorts.
Like I said, it isn't the sole reason and you pay a price. However, there is mathematical proof there is some minor gain. (Something like an 18% less chance to draw a land after 20 turns, I believe. Mostly insignificant, but not 0%!)
Much like Preordain, I'll take minor gain or small chances over no chances at all.
Sorry if I derailed the main discussion by bringing up fetches, they've been discussed to death for years.
I understand why fetchlands are good and it isn't because they thin your deck, good sir or madam.
You might want to try looking at them again, then. Maybe you'll get it right the second time. (A simple google search will lead you to the math that proves it.)
Yes, they are good for other reasons too, but thinning is most definitely one of them. (Whether or not the somewhat marginal gain is worth the life is another matter.) Not to mention fetchlands also make Preordain better.
I think it's a "yay" in almost any deck running blue, actually. I understand that it's difficult to cut other answers, counters, removal, etc. for something that doesn't have an immediate impact for a lot of players. However, paying U and a card to basically dig 3 cards down, smooth out land drops and move unusable cards out of the way is a no-brainer. In addition, the card is even better with Jace, the Mind Sculptor active.
To me, if you understand why fetchlands and cards like Brainstorm are good, you'll understand the reasoning for using Preordain. It's practically like playing with a 56 card deck.
i dont quite understand the stoic rebuttal with only 1 artifact..?
It's a fake out. Makes your opponent wonder how many artifacts you have and what you're playing. It's really just a Cancel with a possible psychological advantage here.
On an amusing note, last year, Ali Aintrazi won South Carolina States. This year, he won Virginia States. Pretty sure he's just gonna go win one in each state just for giggles.
Have you seen VA states results posted yet or did you just hear/see it?
What are your thoughts? Metagame call?
I went ahead and picked a playset up on the cheap anyway.
Plus, let's face it: A lot of pros are pooping all over WoO right now, so that is definitely going to influence a lot of people.
Sounds like someone is jealous. Anyway...
As most people have pointed out, counters are good against most decks right now that want to drop bombs. Yes, it sucks to get Summoning Trapped, but it's also a card you can still counter or play around. It's also why Mindbreak Trap is good right now. A smart control player, against ramp, will be less likely to counter ramp creatures that will still die to removal and focus on countering the ramp spells to avoid the trap and bomb creatures that come later when you have additional counter mana up to deal with a trap.
That said, I see nothing wrong with people also playing a more "tap out" style of UB control and/or using the Trinket Mage toolbox. At the end of the day, it's whatever works for you as a player in the meta you have to work with. Obviously that plays a huge part in which one is better. It's hard to pick a specific style in a vacuum.
Personally, I'm a fan of the heavy counter style. It reminds me of old school Draw-Go, which has always been one of my favorite archetypes. I know I'm not the only one, so that probably has some impact on why people run it too.
It depends. If you put two useless cards at the bottom, you're right that the fetch doesn't help but hinders. However, if you aggressively use Preordain (which I think is the way to go as opposed to holding it late as I've seen others advocate) and you put something at the bottom you need all of a sudden, you get an out of sorts.
Like I said, it isn't the sole reason and you pay a price. However, there is mathematical proof there is some minor gain. (Something like an 18% less chance to draw a land after 20 turns, I believe. Mostly insignificant, but not 0%!)
Much like Preordain, I'll take minor gain or small chances over no chances at all.
Sorry if I derailed the main discussion by bringing up fetches, they've been discussed to death for years.
You might want to try looking at them again, then. Maybe you'll get it right the second time. (A simple google search will lead you to the math that proves it.)
Yes, they are good for other reasons too, but thinning is most definitely one of them. (Whether or not the somewhat marginal gain is worth the life is another matter.) Not to mention fetchlands also make Preordain better.
To me, if you understand why fetchlands and cards like Brainstorm are good, you'll understand the reasoning for using Preordain. It's practically like playing with a 56 card deck.
It's a fake out. Makes your opponent wonder how many artifacts you have and what you're playing. It's really just a Cancel with a possible psychological advantage here.
Have you seen VA states results posted yet or did you just hear/see it?