The only way it may see play is from something like American Walkers. 4cc enchantments better do sOmething drastic because that is a lot of mana to sink into an enchantment.
I swear. You people have just been spoiled rotten by the tempo decks haven't you? No, every deck does NOT need to be able to swing with a good beater, have a stupid amount of library manipulation, AND have have counters. Sometimes a simple approach is the most effective. This guy is pretty much a Big neater in a deck that wants beaters and nothing else. Against zombies this guy with be back breaking. I mean, how often do zombie decks block? GC can't, messenger comes in tapped so he isn't blocking, and they almost never block with blood artist.
When someone slaps down a sword that gives them protection from a particular colour? Or some other piece of tech? Or something that has built in protection like hexproof and then that makes your bounce useless? There are ways to make it so your removal or bounce cannot affect your opponent. Then you have a dead card.
Um actually that doesn't work. Unless you are playing Grixis and they give prot black and u have a black spell then maybe, but if they protecting from red or blue then wasting your time exiling the spell won't help either because he will also have prot from the guy....
I'm sorry, how do YOU argue with these arguments? Dies to removal? Play good cards? These aren't arguments and they don't pertain to the card itself. Having a way to interact with your opponents replies of force him to think on it is a good thing. No one knows if it's going to be a counter heavy environment, but it could be over the next few sets. So who knows, maybe there'll be a permission.dec this'll be good against later on. Or maybe burn.dec. I don't think it's fair to call a card bad because you could have been playing a better card instead of it. There'll be plenty of situation in which that good card won't help and it would have been nice to have an out for your dead cards.
Edit: I feel the need to point out that the poster who said to play better cards implied that the only reason you would want to eat your own spells were if they were a bad spell in the first place and that's not only unfair, it's simply not true.
Um this would be bad in a burn deck. A burn deck wants to hit you fast and with as many times as possible. There is never a time when a burn deck would WANT to pitch their own card to give a CREATURE a buff. The creatures are for stalling an attack and more burn ala Grim Lavamancer. And counter control is a thing for legacy now. Wizards has made it abundantly clear that permission control is NOT a deck they want... The last true cOntrol deck was UB/Esper control and that only lasted a short period before delver came right back up again. Counters have been relagated to the role of controlling tempo, not used to control an opponent. Again, if anything, a tap out ala Bant/UW or a more aggressive control ala Grixis/Jund will probably be the popular choice to go for when it comes to control.
So no, a counter heavy meta is HIGHLY unlikely, unless you count a meta with Izzet charms a "counter heavy" one
I don't think I used a dies to removal argument. I used that as the worst case scenario. Compare to either Garruk. If they use Dreadbore or O-Ring, you are up a card on them (the token). Same with Jace, you got 2 spells from using his -2, or at a minimum replaced itself first. If you don't - Vraska the turn it comes into play, you risk putting yourself behind. If you do - Vraska, you just played a bad version of Maelstrom Pulse. Both are bad places to be, making her bad.
If your playing against burn. Burn kills ANY planeswalker. And also dreadbore, again, kills ANY planeswalker. Ok, so by your logic, say someone played Karn and used him to exile their opponent's say..... Inferno Titan or Grave Titan, and they use dreadbore on him, doesn't that effectively make him a 7-mana PtE without the life gain? So I guess Karn is a bad planeswalker too? After all, you just wasted 7 mama on essentially a 1 mana spell..
Fine. You + her so you get the ability to destory another permanent. But as soon as you - her, they attack and kill her, so the argument is moot. Not to mention, you might + her so you can kill more permanents later, and they just Dreadbore or O-Ring her, and they played a version of the card you just played, and for less mana.
Ah ether good old "dies to removal" arguement. You are aware that EVERY planeswalker is susceptible to dreadbore and O-ring right? There is not a single planeswalker that is immune to them. Also, if a planeswalker did have the over top abilities you seem to be suggesting you know what it would look like? Nicol Bolas.... Hell her - is just about the same as his +. Also she punishes those who don't strike in with lethal in one blow.
Yes you can say "well she dies to burn" tell me, what planeswalker DOESN'T die to burn. Oh and let me guess, you will probably say Garruk relentless is bad because once you use his shock ability he does to a pillar of flame and essentially became a 4 mana shock?
Yeah that sure is a nice Wreath of Geists you got there that you were going to put on that Splinterfright 3/3, to bad I'm going to have to Lightning bolt it to 2/1 you.
Why did I just state that? Because that is part of the game. If you allowed your elemental to get 2/1 by a shock, that is your darn fault. If you think your opponent is going to use a Dismember/Dead Weight/Shock on this elemental and you got a 1cmc Instant, play it turn 2 instead.
As this basically goes back to the idea of "Dies to Removal" smart guy
You have artful dodge in your deck, and your opponent does not have enough creatures to justify its presence in that particular matchup, even though artful dodge is a mighty fine spell. Hey, why don't you give it to your nivmagus then?
Here's another totally specific this-will-never-happen-in-any-serious-game-ever-except-it-happens-all-the-time example:
You attempt to remove an opponent creature, only to see it gain some sort of evasion to it. Your spell would be rendered invalid/useless. So why not feed it?
That is actually very true. I see your point there.
I love how the very same arguements and defenses that are being used to justify this guy were used with the defiled demon, just in reverse on who is using which arguement
I can see being fun in some nasty Bant shinanagins with detain and cackling counterpart. They proceed to combat or about to trigger something, instant speed cast cackling, copy a detainer and just keep copying it to lock they threat down and keep gaining life in the process. Could work xD. Be funny if nothing else
Yeah that sure is a nice Wreath of Geists you got there that you were going to put on that Splinterfright 3/3, to bad I'm going to have to Lightning bolt it to 2/1 you.
Why did I just state that? Because that is part of the game. If you allowed your elemental to get 2/1 by a shock, that is your darn fault. If you think your opponent is going to use a Dismember/Dead Weight/Shock on this elemental and you got a 1cmc Instant, play it turn 2 instead.
As this basically goes back to the idea of "Dies to Removal" smart guy
Problem is that when u dumped A few cards on him they can effectively X for 1 him. The problem is also that he EXILES the cards so snapcaster won't be able to make use of the cards.
Yup, we just perfectly predict the standard format with a little over a third of the set spoiled.
Well let's see, Jund/BG is already being pushed HARD and everyone knows it. BG zombies already has all the tools it needs to be a very powerful deck with the few golgari cards spoiled. Jund is just viscipus right now with what's spoiled and what we already have.
As for control, permissive cOntrol is dead. Counters will still exist sure, there is no doubt, but a deck built around countering everything just is not feasible in standard. Not in this set. If it has ANY chance it will be with Dimir and they are not in this set so moot point. The reason why i stated so many decks for control is because any of them could be good. Depends on what else is released. Maybe a Bant cackling counterpart/detain/populate control combo? Maybe Jund control? Or Grixis. But all of those are not about countering so the "counter protection" this isn't gonna quite so significant.
Yeah I'm talking about Standard. In modern he can see play because of replicate and maybe in legacy for storm. But in standard he is just horrible. Dreadbore and Abrupt Decay are going to be VERY relavent, everyone and their mother can see that jund/GB will be a very formidable deck. The counter arguement doesnt really mean much in this standard. Permissive control is just about dead. Control, if anything will be 5cc when all guilds are released and Bant/jund/UW tap out/MAYBE black control (I say BLACK because they will probably splash for dreadbore and abrupt decay with the shock lands so that their swps matters cards are not affected)
I don't get peOple-.-. How are people calling this playable? Maybe if he had hexproof. But as he is, he falls victim to the removal argument. He dies to dreadbore, dies to abrupt decay, and since he puts counters on him, if he gets unsummoned/azorious guild charmed or something that hurts right there. Also, since his ability EXILES the cards, there is NO way you can net a CA off his ability, unlike say with LOL troll who sends things to the GY. I can't see how so many people are hyped for this guy -.-.
Um actually that doesn't work. Unless you are playing Grixis and they give prot black and u have a black spell then maybe, but if they protecting from red or blue then wasting your time exiling the spell won't help either because he will also have prot from the guy....
Um this would be bad in a burn deck. A burn deck wants to hit you fast and with as many times as possible. There is never a time when a burn deck would WANT to pitch their own card to give a CREATURE a buff. The creatures are for stalling an attack and more burn ala Grim Lavamancer. And counter control is a thing for legacy now. Wizards has made it abundantly clear that permission control is NOT a deck they want... The last true cOntrol deck was UB/Esper control and that only lasted a short period before delver came right back up again. Counters have been relagated to the role of controlling tempo, not used to control an opponent. Again, if anything, a tap out ala Bant/UW or a more aggressive control ala Grixis/Jund will probably be the popular choice to go for when it comes to control.
So no, a counter heavy meta is HIGHLY unlikely, unless you count a meta with Izzet charms a "counter heavy" one
That attitude is the very reason no one is taking you seriously.
If your playing against burn. Burn kills ANY planeswalker. And also dreadbore, again, kills ANY planeswalker. Ok, so by your logic, say someone played Karn and used him to exile their opponent's say..... Inferno Titan or Grave Titan, and they use dreadbore on him, doesn't that effectively make him a 7-mana PtE without the life gain? So I guess Karn is a bad planeswalker too? After all, you just wasted 7 mama on essentially a 1 mana spell..
Ah ether good old "dies to removal" arguement. You are aware that EVERY planeswalker is susceptible to dreadbore and O-ring right? There is not a single planeswalker that is immune to them. Also, if a planeswalker did have the over top abilities you seem to be suggesting you know what it would look like? Nicol Bolas.... Hell her - is just about the same as his +. Also she punishes those who don't strike in with lethal in one blow.
Yes you can say "well she dies to burn" tell me, what planeswalker DOESN'T die to burn. Oh and let me guess, you will probably say Garruk relentless is bad because once you use his shock ability he does to a pillar of flame and essentially became a 4 mana shock?
That is actually very true. I see your point there.
Problem is that when u dumped A few cards on him they can effectively X for 1 him. The problem is also that he EXILES the cards so snapcaster won't be able to make use of the cards.
Well let's see, Jund/BG is already being pushed HARD and everyone knows it. BG zombies already has all the tools it needs to be a very powerful deck with the few golgari cards spoiled. Jund is just viscipus right now with what's spoiled and what we already have.
As for control, permissive cOntrol is dead. Counters will still exist sure, there is no doubt, but a deck built around countering everything just is not feasible in standard. Not in this set. If it has ANY chance it will be with Dimir and they are not in this set so moot point. The reason why i stated so many decks for control is because any of them could be good. Depends on what else is released. Maybe a Bant cackling counterpart/detain/populate control combo? Maybe Jund control? Or Grixis. But all of those are not about countering so the "counter protection" this isn't gonna quite so significant.