Oh man, the nostalgia. Yes both of these cards were heavy hitters when the format was young. Good times.
On topic, I really like Kira, Great Glass-Spinner for the low mana cost and mass protection. Yes, she encourages board wipes, but if you are playing a slower deck, or a control style deck, then board wipes usually do not bother you. Plus you can keep your board modest in size, while being less vulnerable to a spot removal blowout.
I play her in a Riku of Two Reflections deck to protect creatures like Consecrated Sphinx, Sphinx of Uthuun, and Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker and the like. Great card to run out there and bait a board wipe with counter backup. Also helps protect Riku when he is on the battlefield, but lets face it, Riku is almost impossible to protect.
- Primeval Titan: Diehard fan. Exile removal is getting better every year
- Recurring Nightmare: Never seen it played. May not have the impact it did back then. I could easily be swayed the other way and should probably stay banned.
+ Craterhoof Behemoth: Jeeze this card is much to easy to win with in green. As said above it is just so overpowered as an overrun effect compared to anything else available.
+ Palinchron: Although it may not get as much favor as it used to. It is common among "Casual Combo" players and does not add anything interesting to the format
+ Armageddon: Opportunity cost too low for destroying all lands. Play the other options that cost a little more.
I kind of want to vote for Purphoros, God of the Forge. It is overpowered and hard to interact with, but in red, so I will leave my opinion on it in this post instead of in the poll.
Also I agreed in the recent thread that fast mana is bad for the format, however I did not vote to ban any of it. Hypocritical of me? If Sol Ring or Mana Crypt were banned, I would understand and not complain about it too much.
She paints a big target. Hard to keep her alive for a turn cycle. If you are playing haste outlets, or colors weak at recursion, then it could be a good fit. In the days of ETB-the Gathering, tap abilities are getting every more difficult to justify.
I only tried her in GWB, where there are better animation options. In a RW, UW, or GW value engine deck, I would look much more closely at Valkyrie.
Undoubtedly solid card with a high ceiling. Just hard to reach its potential in practice.
Edit: White also tends to either exile for targeted removal, or just Destroy everything.
In many games that become "unfun" it is the player who explodes early and gets to the end game faster than everyone else.
Tutors can be unfun if used for the same purpose, but overall it is less of a problem. As mentioned above, if you tutor early for the same fast combo, that is less acceptable as fun for the majority of EDH'ers compared to "Make big mana, cast big things".
I think if more players played (slightly) higher density of early game artifact removal like Nature's Claim, Reclamation Sage, and Vandalblast, this problem would be mitigated greatly. Myself included... The big problem is the feel bad card disadvantage when spending your card to deal with a Sol Ring, while players 3&4 expend no resources and lose no momentum. Such is the game of Magic.
Getting T1 Sol Ring is a huge leap forward, but usually it requires a presence for a few turns to become back breaking. Shooting it on turn 2-3 is usually enough to get the game progressing at a more normal rate, unless said player spits out something hard to interact with. In which case...fast mana.
Unless I know the person, and know they are not going to do anything unfun, and might actually work on attaining the proxied card. But generally there are plenty of cards that replicate the effect of powerful cards, usually for more mana. I understand the position of wanting to play cool cards without spending a mint. However I don't feel like I am handicapped for not buying a Tabernacle, or Moat, or Time Twister despite the fact that my decks would benefit from them. Fun games can be had with actual cards that may be less powerful than their proxied counter parts. That is why cards like Time Reversal were printed, so we can get those great effects at a more "fair" mana cost and be widely available.
I play a champs Grim Monolith because I have a real Grim Monolith in another deck. Contemplating getting a Champs Force of Will to go with my other one so I can play it in multiple decks. I don't play competitive, so teir 1 everything is not a concern for me.
Doom Whisperer has me very excited for graveyard decks. It is a very good card for turning on graveyard engines or just stocking the graveyard with fodder for certain decks. I will be doing some testing of this card in Karador, Ghost Chieftain as a way to fill the graveyard and jumpstart my engine. I like it more than dredge because if feel less "all-in" and can be used as much, or as little as I need. In some decks, 2 life to mill 2 is similar to having Necropotence stapled on a 6/6 Flying Trampler for 3BB.
I have worked this problem for a long time, and even helped a friend realize the value of non-combat win conditions in attrition decks. The truth is, attrition and control style decks can have a hard time competing in combat with the likes of more aggressive and explosive decks. This leads to the necessity for non-combat options, however combo wins can leave a bad taste in the mouth, especially for opponents.
One note I have is that a different choice of commander may suit your decks theme better. I immediately thought of Tasigur as an interesting graveyard based commander that can offer great value.
For cards that help win the game outside of combat, these cards are helpful without going infinite.
I have not played any player-hexproof cards. They just don't feel worth the deck space to me. I have never played against much heavy graveyard removal. Half of it is targeted removal (Withered Wretch, Scavenging Ooze) and some is mass GY hate (Relic of Progenitus). My reanimator deck doesn't fold to a single Tormod's Crypt so I have never bothered testing out any of these cards. If I see more than one player targeted GY hate card, it is rare enough to not warrant a deck slot specifically for that situation.
Most players looking to win off a big play targeting a player will wait until they can remove the hexproof obstacle before the kill. At least I would... Unless you are playing in a competitive meta, where an extra turn or two may make the difference, just play things that have more impact.
I don't think I have personally ever seen these types of cards make any significant impact on a game. But like mentioned above, meta dependent.
The Ageis guy in an enchantment deck seems fine. Low cost, triggeers enchantresses, I would test that before the other higher cost spells.
I am playing Massacre Wurm in Karador as a token killer. I have not gotten to double tap on the ETB of Massacre Wurm, however I do see an abundance of tokens + Craterhoof Behemoth. Good way to soften up the field in an attrition deck.
I like Massacre Wurm better because I really don't need the reanimate, I like the bleed effect more.
Night Incarnate is a very tempting substitute because it cost less mana and hits larger creatures. Evoke in Karador is tech as well. Will ponder...
Fetch lands (like Terramorphic Expanse) sounds neat in your deck.
Thanks. Upkeep mentioned this above, and those two are already included. Thanks for the tip. I also play GW bounce land for additional leave battlefield triggers.
I am now looking for more nuanced recommendations beyond the obvious. Good examples include Lignify as I mentioned, or Lunarch Mantle as recommended by others. Also interested to hear if anyone has any experience playing deathtouch creatures for hexproof defense, or defense in general.
Will give Ironclad Slayer another look as it has good stats and recurs my pump which is needed for closing out a game. To this end Byway Courier, while appearing weak at first, is a useful card for this deck. I actually want it in combat for the investigate on death. Solids stats and cantrips after I get some attacking/blocking out of it. Although Ironclad Slayer could suplant Courier for same stats, but arguable stronger ability.
Now strongly considering Lunarch Mantle as recommended by Temujin. It was also recommended by a friend of mine and I turned my nose up to it. It helps trigger revolt, but still only grants evasion when sacrificing permanents, which I don't make tons of extra creature tokens or anything.
Then it dawned on me that Lunarch Mantle sacrifices PERMANENTS at INSTANT SPEED. As one of the very few cards in Pauper that can sacrifice enchantments at instant speed, it makes Journey to Nowhere a hard exile! As well as Oblivion Ring, except Journey is recurrable by Rallier. This capability along with allowing pump, evasion, and revolt triggers, all for 2 mana makes is too good not to try.
Also looking for thoughts on Lignify vs. Pacifism. Leaning towards Lignify being better by removing abilities. Pasifism prevent blocking.
I really have fun resolving a Wild Pair. I do not currently play it in any decks, but it is a pet card of mine and really fun to have in play. Beyond the obvious fact that free stuff is good, optimizing your choice based on combined P/T is unique.
I also have good fun playing "modular" counter spells. Cryptic Command, Insidious Will, and Mystic Confluence have me looking for the most impactful way to use the abilities outside of simply "counter target spell".
Relevant cards include all 4 green fetches and the following.
Oh man, the nostalgia. Yes both of these cards were heavy hitters when the format was young. Good times.
On topic, I really like Kira, Great Glass-Spinner for the low mana cost and mass protection. Yes, she encourages board wipes, but if you are playing a slower deck, or a control style deck, then board wipes usually do not bother you. Plus you can keep your board modest in size, while being less vulnerable to a spot removal blowout.
I play her in a Riku of Two Reflections deck to protect creatures like Consecrated Sphinx, Sphinx of Uthuun, and Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker and the like. Great card to run out there and bait a board wipe with counter backup. Also helps protect Riku when he is on the battlefield, but lets face it, Riku is almost impossible to protect.
- Primeval Titan: Diehard fan. Exile removal is getting better every year
- Recurring Nightmare: Never seen it played. May not have the impact it did back then. I could easily be swayed the other way and should probably stay banned.
+ Craterhoof Behemoth: Jeeze this card is much to easy to win with in green. As said above it is just so overpowered as an overrun effect compared to anything else available.
+ Palinchron: Although it may not get as much favor as it used to. It is common among "Casual Combo" players and does not add anything interesting to the format
+ Armageddon: Opportunity cost too low for destroying all lands. Play the other options that cost a little more.
I kind of want to vote for Purphoros, God of the Forge. It is overpowered and hard to interact with, but in red, so I will leave my opinion on it in this post instead of in the poll.
Also I agreed in the recent thread that fast mana is bad for the format, however I did not vote to ban any of it. Hypocritical of me? If Sol Ring or Mana Crypt were banned, I would understand and not complain about it too much.
I only tried her in GWB, where there are better animation options. In a RW, UW, or GW value engine deck, I would look much more closely at Valkyrie.
Undoubtedly solid card with a high ceiling. Just hard to reach its potential in practice.
Edit: White also tends to either exile for targeted removal, or just Destroy everything.
In many games that become "unfun" it is the player who explodes early and gets to the end game faster than everyone else.
Tutors can be unfun if used for the same purpose, but overall it is less of a problem. As mentioned above, if you tutor early for the same fast combo, that is less acceptable as fun for the majority of EDH'ers compared to "Make big mana, cast big things".
I think if more players played (slightly) higher density of early game artifact removal like Nature's Claim, Reclamation Sage, and Vandalblast, this problem would be mitigated greatly. Myself included... The big problem is the feel bad card disadvantage when spending your card to deal with a Sol Ring, while players 3&4 expend no resources and lose no momentum. Such is the game of Magic.
Getting T1 Sol Ring is a huge leap forward, but usually it requires a presence for a few turns to become back breaking. Shooting it on turn 2-3 is usually enough to get the game progressing at a more normal rate, unless said player spits out something hard to interact with. In which case...fast mana.
Unless I know the person, and know they are not going to do anything unfun, and might actually work on attaining the proxied card. But generally there are plenty of cards that replicate the effect of powerful cards, usually for more mana. I understand the position of wanting to play cool cards without spending a mint. However I don't feel like I am handicapped for not buying a Tabernacle, or Moat, or Time Twister despite the fact that my decks would benefit from them. Fun games can be had with actual cards that may be less powerful than their proxied counter parts. That is why cards like Time Reversal were printed, so we can get those great effects at a more "fair" mana cost and be widely available.
I play a champs Grim Monolith because I have a real Grim Monolith in another deck. Contemplating getting a Champs Force of Will to go with my other one so I can play it in multiple decks. I don't play competitive, so teir 1 everything is not a concern for me.
One note I have is that a different choice of commander may suit your decks theme better. I immediately thought of Tasigur as an interesting graveyard based commander that can offer great value.
For cards that help win the game outside of combat, these cards are helpful without going infinite.
Gilded Drake for bounce fun
Alter of Dementia for self mill, or combo mill win-con
Most players looking to win off a big play targeting a player will wait until they can remove the hexproof obstacle before the kill. At least I would... Unless you are playing in a competitive meta, where an extra turn or two may make the difference, just play things that have more impact.
I don't think I have personally ever seen these types of cards make any significant impact on a game. But like mentioned above, meta dependent.
The Ageis guy in an enchantment deck seems fine. Low cost, triggeers enchantresses, I would test that before the other higher cost spells.
I like Massacre Wurm better because I really don't need the reanimate, I like the bleed effect more.
Night Incarnate is a very tempting substitute because it cost less mana and hits larger creatures. Evoke in Karador is tech as well. Will ponder...
Thanks. Upkeep mentioned this above, and those two are already included. Thanks for the tip. I also play GW bounce land for additional leave battlefield triggers.
I am now looking for more nuanced recommendations beyond the obvious. Good examples include Lignify as I mentioned, or Lunarch Mantle as recommended by others. Also interested to hear if anyone has any experience playing deathtouch creatures for hexproof defense, or defense in general.
Will give Ironclad Slayer another look as it has good stats and recurs my pump which is needed for closing out a game. To this end Byway Courier, while appearing weak at first, is a useful card for this deck. I actually want it in combat for the investigate on death. Solids stats and cantrips after I get some attacking/blocking out of it. Although Ironclad Slayer could suplant Courier for same stats, but arguable stronger ability.
Then it dawned on me that Lunarch Mantle sacrifices PERMANENTS at INSTANT SPEED. As one of the very few cards in Pauper that can sacrifice enchantments at instant speed, it makes Journey to Nowhere a hard exile! As well as Oblivion Ring, except Journey is recurrable by Rallier. This capability along with allowing pump, evasion, and revolt triggers, all for 2 mana makes is too good not to try.
Also looking for thoughts on Lignify vs. Pacifism. Leaning towards Lignify being better by removing abilities. Pasifism prevent blocking.
I also have good fun playing "modular" counter spells. Cryptic Command, Insidious Will, and Mystic Confluence have me looking for the most impactful way to use the abilities outside of simply "counter target spell".