MTG Salvation

Quote from Shorecrasher »

Here I am again. I played your deck today and I loved it. I have some questions though, and I'll just list them.


1. How do 32 lands work? I don't know why, but it worked every game. Impressive.

Thanks! It's probably a combination of two things. 1. Low-ish mana curve. As a more optimized list, I try to include only the best (of a type of spell), which means considering the mana cost of that spell. Just as much (or MORE) bang for your buck, if you will. 2. GAA4 lowers that already low mana curve with his discounts. Almost every spell becomes 1 less to cast; sometimes, you pay 2 less. And while you enjoy the ease of casting spells, your opponents are mired down with bureaucratic forms (i.e., the taxes) of the deck.

2. Is there any reasoning on excluding Tranquil Cove, Temple of Enlightenment and Azorius Guildgate?
I mean, I understand that there's no Flooded Strand or Tundra - I just added them but never drew them - but the others? They are dirt cheap and fix you mana.
Is it really because of speed?

Basically, yes. It's because of speed. There are enough CITP lands in the deck as it is. Any more will slow it down to a crawl. Of course, the deck *is* supposed to be slow, but only for your opponents. You, as a pilot, should be trying to make the deck work (i.e., set up the prison) as quickly as you can with the cards you draw.

If fixing is a problem, I recommend subbing out a mono-coloured CIPT land for any of the ones you mentioned. Or, probably better with the orb effects, a WU-producing artifact.

3. Why don't you run Cavern of Souls? I know there's no tribal, but Academy Rector, Venser, GAA4 and Snapcaster are Humans after all. And even if only GAA4 was, that'd be strong enough on my watch.

Enh. I've never had a problem resolving my creatures. I guess if you want to hammer another nail in the coffin, Cavern wouldn't be a bad inclusion.

4. Why don't you run Norn's Annex? I know it's easier to get around since you can just pay the life a few times, but still. Especially decks who simply can't produce white mana simply scoop to it. I played against a Goblin-Deck today which simply resigned when Annex resolved.

Umm... I just addressed this, but I suppose it won't hurt to reiterate. Opponents can always pay the 2 life. (Source) It's a soft-lock card at best, and worthless at worst.

Your goblin-loving opponent probably didn't understand the rules. Besides, if you faced a goblin deck whose only win-con was attacking and didn't have one of Red's many options of artifact removal on hand, then he deserved to lose anyways.

5. What are your thoughts on Ugin, the Spirit Dragon? I feel like he'd fit greatly. I know he doesn't synergize with GAA4 or anything really, but he can be such an absurd game winner.

1. Over-hyped Standard card.
2. 0 synergy with the deck. GAA4, as a card, favours casting W and U. Ugin doesn't benefit from this, and doesn't contribute much to locking the board down. Remember that when evaluationg PWs, you can't judge them by their ulti's... because you will almost never reach that point. The only thing I can see him being useful as is in the role of a colourless board-wipe, just in case someone plays Iona. But then, you ARE playing a 2-coloured deck with removal in BOTH colours. And you probably should have countered her in the first place.
3. GAA4 isn't necessarily about splashy, game-winning spells. This isn't Maelstrom Wanderer or Riku.

6. I asked it earlier, but I'd repeat it: Ojutai. Now that I played the deck, I'm conviced he's great. And casting Ojutai for 3 is... like... the dream. You only need five mana with him to have counter backup for the counter? Sign me up.

Again, I find him over-hyped, even in Standard (which I do play).

If you want card-advantage in a creature, look to Consecrated Sphinx. Unlike Ojutai, who needs to swing (usually a turn later unless you have greaves out) AND hit to get you 1 card (out of 3), Consecrated Sphinx just needs to survive until the next draw step to get you 2 cards. Consecrated Sphinx might not have the built-in protection that Ojutai does (which is conditional anyways... it stops at the most critical point: tapping to attack; if Ojutai gets removed during combat, there goes your card advantage), BUT he is faster and better at getting you cards. If he manages to last even one round of the table, you've more than made up the 6 (5 with GAA4 discounts) that you paid to put him out there.

To those who've given me advice about the GP, THANK YOU! I really do appreciate it.

I'm only going to bring two decks: Talrand for my buddy to use (it's the one I introduced him to EDH with, and it's the one he knows the best... also, he completely crushed my mono-Black deck with it 4 times last night... bittersweet Q_Q) and either Niv or GAA4 for myself. I really don't know which one to go with yet. I'll probably decide Saturday night, before Day 2, after getting a sense of the player environment.

Regardless of which I go with, I'm going to be uber-protective of my stuff. I'm not planning on bringing my binder. Just the necessities: wallet, IDs, phone, internet device, playmat, sleeves, EDH, and vegan food (since Japanese "fast food" is usually beef bowls... T_T).

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Bur: I'm glad your festival thing went well! You definitely deserve a good rest. Good luck getting one ;P

Quote from Draznar »

Good to hear! It's probably the one thing I can't get my group to tolerate.....

Also regarding Linvala, Keeper of Silence, she does hit mana abilities as well Since you put emphasis on Cursed Totem being able to, unsure if you were implying that Linvala, Keeper of Silence couldn't.

I was just drawing the comparison between Linvala and Cursed Totem - that they both hit the mana abilities. I didn't mean to imply that Linvala couldn't, though rereading my post, I can totally see how it sounds like that. I'm going to use not using English enough as an excuse.

And most groups can't tolerate Winter Orb. My old group in Cali considered it a "war crime" along with Blood Moon. Armageddon/Catastrophe were fine for some reason. Go figure.

Hello! I have a Primer in the Commander/EDH section that I need to keep updated (found here). Could you add me, as well? Thank you!

Quote from Draznar »

Do you think this deck could work without Winter Orb / Static Orb?

Also what about Linvala, Keeper of Silence as a possible inclusion ?

Yes, this deck can function perfectly fine without Winter Orb or Static Orb. Winter Orb just helps set a really tight lock on the board. I know that many playgroups hate the idea of Winter Orb, so it's controversial. It can also be very tough to play through with GAA4 if you don't have certain mana sources available.

As for Linvala, she's decent, I suppose. But, if I'm going to shut down activated abilities, I'd consider Cursed Totem (it DOES hit mana abilities) or Null Rod first. 1) They're artifacts, making them less susceptible to most board wipes. There's also a smaller chance of them getting cloned, stolen, etc. 2) They're both cheaper to cast than Linvala. However, she does provide a flying body, which is nice.

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Update: In light of the new tuck rules, I've switched Dissipate in for Spell Crumple. Please refer to the Changelog for the reasoning behind this, if so inclined.

Hey guys! It's been a while since I've been able to post. Not because I've been especially busy (I am, don't get me wrong), but mostly because my computer was terribly infected with malware that none of my 3 anti-malwares/cleaners picked up. Also, my smartphone is terrible at long messages in the HTML box, so I don't use it for posting if I can avoid it. But fear not! I've been keeping up with the conversations!

I'm about ready to make a horde deck myself. I've only got one person to play EDH with here and 1) I don't want to kill my decks by using the French Banlist (with which I'm not particularly familiar in the first place), and 2) 1v1 EDH really isn't as fun. At least the horde deck can function as a third "ghost player." I'm definitely going with zombies and I'm just going to fill the deck with all the big, splashy jank cards I've got lying around. It should be fun that way! If it's under-powered or oover-powered, I'll fix it afterwards.

Anyways, I'm getting ready for GP Chiba, as well. It's my first GP ever, so I'm pretty excited to see how I do. It's Sealed MM2, so if I pull any valuable cards, I'll drop before having to pass them around. I kinda hope I don't pull that well, though, since I really do want to play the main event. It cost a pretty penny to register and registration was a real hassle, as I had to wait for the second wave of registration. (They initially sold out, but re-opened it with a new player cap.) I don't want that effort to go to waste. Still, if a card is worth the ticket-price, I'll have recouped my losses by dropping. Plus, there's side events!

Speaking of side events, I'm obviously going to play a ton of EDH. The problem is that I'm hesitant to bring my most expensive deck, as I'm afraid it (or cards in it) might get lost or stolen, and that would ruin my day. BUT! I also don't want to lose, as there are prizes. The question is, what deck should I bring? What do you guys think?

(In order from most to least expensive)

Grand Arbiter Augustin IV

Pros: Probably my most consistently powerful deck. I know it can handle a variety of opponents' decks, even other top-tier generals.
Cons: Expensive and thus risky to bring. And it WILL make games last twice as long.

Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind

Pros: Very fast. It's gone off t6 before, and is usually ready to go off by t12, so long as I'm not facing more than 1 control deck. Very fun deck, too.
Cons: A little glass-cannon-y. It can whiff easily if I don't have a decent opening hand. Has a lot of expensive cards in it, as well.

Linvala, Keeper of Silence

Pros: Very thematic and fun. Fairly showy and enjoyable (and easy!) to play.
Cons: Rather weak, as it can't really interact with the Stack. Easily disrupted.

Sidisi, Undead Vizier

Pros: Disrupts hands and locks down the board like a champ.
Cons: Slower to set up than GAA4. Winning takes a while. Also can't deal with Stack shenanigans.

Talrand, Sky Summoner

Pros: Spellslinging splashiness galore! Can do Stack shenanigans. Can generate crazy card advantage.
Cons: While in total the deck isn't too expensive, the expensive cards are ones I value a lot. Can get a little boring to play, and (on the same note) can be disrupted once opponents learn how the deck works.

One general hesitation: I'm wary of playing mono-coloured decks, since Iona is a thing, though each of my mono-coloured decks has colourless ways of removing such impediments. (Of course, actually having that removal at the ready is another matter.)

Most MtG players are good people and value others' cards as much as their own. And this is especially of true of Japanese players. Still, it only takes one bad apple to ruin everything. I don't mind bringing one of my expensive decks... it's just that I've read too many stories on these forums about how someone's deck/cards got knicked. Obviously, I plan to watch my belongings like a hawk, but it's not humanly possible to devote all of one's attention to theft-prevention while trying to play (and enjoy!) a game.

Any advice and/or encouragement is welcome!

Serum Visions is a sorcery...

Austere Command is great for picking and choosing what you want to go away and what you want to stick.

There's also the Overloaded Cyclonic Rift to wipe just your opponents' boards.

I'm going to say "Yes. At least try it out." If you draw enough cards per turn (I don't know what kind of draw spells you've got), then you'll run into the Stick and an imprint target at some point. Also, if you don't have a good reason to use one of your 1-2CMC instants and you're holding on to it, you can always put it on the Stick for value later.

Quote from CoolLink19 »

I play scepter in Talrand with 23 legal targets and I still sometimes get stuck imprinting something lame. 10 targets is way too few.

Really? I'm always happy to throw Boomerang or even Telling Time onto the Stick with my Talrand deck. There's no such thing as a "lame" target with Talrand; everything becomes a drake in the end!

I tried to post my guesses... but my computer has been wonky lately and my phone is terrible at handling lengthy posts... I'd tried both and was frustrated by both. T_T

The big reveal!

I'm planning on going to GP Chiba. It should be fun.

(Sorry for not posting in a while. I tried to post guesses to people's lies, but my computer is infested and my phone is fritzing out... long or complicated posts with quotes and such are too much until I fix them.)

Narset's is a worse version of Dovescape.

It's a better version unless you really like Birds.

At least Dovescape combos with something...

I wouldn't put Narset in my GAA4 deck, even if you gave me the card. (Interestingly, I did crack her in the box I got, but I promptly sold her because I knew she was going to depreciate.)

There's no point in rebounding counterspells or single-mode wraths. No one is going to cast creatures when they're expecting a rebounded Wrath of God, so you might as well have only played the one. It might work for some spot removal, though. The + ability is hit-and-miss, so it's not even a guaranteed draw.

And as others have mentioned, if you're investing other cards into making her work, then your entire deck will suffer. (It's never a good idea to try to build too much around any card besides the general.) And especially with Narset, there's no point in trying to build to optimize her.

Her ultimate is disappointing. Creatures are a major part of this game and vital to many strategies. Elfball, Voltron, Animar, Green... AND generals are creatures (for the most part). Furthermore, as the "new world order" is creating more spells-on-body-type creatures, non-creature interaction is becoming less promoted, and thus less used, in general. So, it's not like you're limiting your opponents by very much, even IF (and it's a big "if") you manage to get her to ultimate.

Specifically regarding putting her in a GAA4 list, there are several reasons why I wouldn't.

1. She doesn't lock anything down. Hell, she doesn't even reliably draw you cards.
2. Her rebound ability is lackluster. GAA4 tends to use a lot of artifacts and enchantments to keep the board under control. Instants and sorceries are there usually as back-up measures to maintain the lockdown and to respond to immediate threats.
3. Her ultimate still won't win you the game. JTMS, Venser PW, Tamiyo... their ultimate abilities mean victory. Narset's is a worse version of Dovescape.


tldr; She's terri-bad in any decent GAA4 deck.

Uhm... well, here I go.

1) I collect vintage coffee makers, mills (grinders), and tea sets.
2) I enjoy wearing kimono.
3) I'm an excellent gardener.
4) I own more vinyl records than CDs.
5) I have at least 5 piercings.

Which do *you* think is the lie?