MTG Salvation

Quote from Bur »

Btw, what are your thoughts on Terastodon and other green removal-on-stick? (This is directed to everyone not named Madhatter)

Aww... :<

Quote from pikachugundam »

So is everyone sick of Origins yet?

My friend and I have been drafting it with the boxes we bought (one box each), but it's a really hard set to draft. At once there's a lot going on and yet not enough to do. It doesn't help that WotC is blurring established deck archetypes (like White Weenie... it's now WG-Weenie, which is not as efficient) and it's muddling the play-quality of the set. All for what? Backstories on the PW that no one really cares about or likes? Genius...

Quote from Bur »

Also, has anyone else here experienced that your sense of monetary value of cards gets blurred when it comes to EDH?
I've noticed recently that spending 5€ per Serum Vision is really expensive, but paying ~50€ for a Scrubland is not bad at all...

It's all relative, really. A Scrubland is a uinque kind of land that we KNOW will never be reprinted in any way, shape, or form. Serum Visions... well, a better draw spell exists, and they might print something new to take its place in Modern (I assume it's price-tag has to do with Modern).

Quote from Smokko »

Hi guys here is my decklist.. Could you please have a look at it?
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/duel-commander-grand-arbiter-augustin-iv/

My plans to win are mostly based on Armageddon/Ravages of war:
Creatures +armageddon
Planeswalker +armageddon
Entreat the angels on 7mana

Please let me know what you think. I am pretty undecided for the stoneforge + jitte and sword of feast and famine, i ve seen a lot of decklists that are not running them.

Best regards

Michele

Hey! Sorry for being tardy to the party (eh, yeah, lame expression I know, but it's almost 4am @_@) I've been busy with school and work, so I've not had much time to respond to MTGS stuff. Luckily that'll be over in a few weeks.

Anyways, as for your deck, I realize it's aimed at 1v1, and I'm really not very familiar with the banlist for that, so if I recommend something that isn't legal, just disregard it. I also have pretty much no recent experience in Duel EDH, so I'm really not familiar with the meta. (Hint: this is my disclaimer in which I state I might not be very useful).

I notice that you've got a lot of conditional counters (i.e., counters instants and sorceries, like Negate, or if an opponent pays 1 or X or something). Even if it's Duel EDH, I'm not sure how effective these are. Especially since you're not running many prison pieces or tax effects, you're opponents will have available mana, as you're not forcing them to over-expend it to cast spells. I can imagine that any Green rampy deck would be able to outpace this with fairly little trouble.

Also, if you're going for spell-based win-cons (Armageddon + [insert card here]), then using Stoneforge Mystic and Sword of Feast and Famine dilutes the power of the deck. It would be better to have tutors (maybe not Mystical, if it's banned) but probably Long-Term Plans or any suitable Transmute card. That way, you can search up your win-cons. Plus, SoFaF is the only SFM target you're running; if you draw the Sword before the Mystic, the Mystic becomes a dead card in the deck. Worse, she might end up a dead draw when you need it the most. I'd think very carefully about these two cards...

Besides what I've mentioned, I'm not sure how much I can comment on your deck. It varies greatly from mine, and it's playstyle is also very different. But! Best of luck to you! Please let me know how it goes.

Hey guys! Sorry I keep going MIA. School is in its last two weeks, so I'm writing and studying like mad (actually, like a Mad Hatter! see what I did there?) Bad puns aside, I'll be a little more talkative after the 24th... I'm pretty pleased with Origins, overall. I'm seeing lots of stuff for most of my EDH decks, so I'm excited. I'm thinking of getting a box to draft with and to hopefully get some goodies for my decks.

Anyways, I'll see ya'll on the flipside! Hi-ho, Textbook! Awaaaaaaay!

Quote from Bur »

Well, this is an easy one.

Gaka's Norin
Madhatter's GAAIV

... and my Mishra, Artificer Prodigy.

SO much yes!

Your Mishra deck would be really interesting to play against! But I really think GAA4 and Mishra would have trouble against Gaka's Norin, a deck for which I have crazy respect for and have wanted to play against since I saw it years ago.

It would be one hell of a game. @_@

Quote from Jr. »

I'm really digging Kothophed from a flavor standpoint, I actually started a "Let's Build Kothophed" thread in the multiplayer forums to see what the MTGS Community would put together. Then I'll build it, tune it and see what happens. I *hope* there is atleast one other playable legend to come out of Origins... just one!

Chandra's parents are highly playable in Daretti... It's just a shame that WotC is "fixing" mono-Red by making it more dependent on artifacts, rather than giving it decent cards and support in the areas it needs it.

Unfortunately, I've not been able to play EDH much lately. :/ Though I'm helping my friend build a mono-red goblin EDH, it's very budget. Not a bad thing, per se. Actually, it's very thematic and flavourful just... I have to build a deck that won't rofl-stomp it, which is good in that it'll make me finally focus on that UB pirate deck. No, I've not forgotten about it! >:]

BTW, is anyone else kind of underwhelmed by the new PWs? I wasn't expecting them to be OP or anything, but I was espeicially disappointed with Gideon (my faveourite 'walker). He's just like every. other. Gideon... :/ What are your guys' opinions?

@Pegasus:

With Midnight Banshee and Inexorable Tide, you could go for a Grixis Wither deck that could be flavourful and fun. Red offers more up the wither route, and Blue has a good amount of proliferate stuff.

@Bur:

There is the Hidden Gems Thread... but personally, I think Thoughtpicker Witch should see more play. That card is bonkers in a token/control deck.

Quote from Dark Monger »

Hey, sorry if there is already one posted in this thread already but could someone refer me to a refined competitive GAA4 1v1 normal edh rules stax list? Sounds like you guys really know what you're talking about and I've been jonesin for some stax. Thanks in advance for any help!

We don't use the French Rules in my group, even if we play 1v1, so I can't speak with too much authority. However, this seems like a pretty good place to start.

Quote from Dark Monger »

Also, would you say that a tuned GAA4 stax list is better than a tuned Derevi stax list? Again, normal commander rules and not duel.

Derevi is usually faster because of mana dorks. However, if GAA4 is set up quickly, it can shut down and lock up an entire board. It's only happened once so far - mostly because I don't always use this deck....for hate reasons - but I managed to shut down Kozilek, Azusa, and Rafiq (competitive lists) on t4. I started with a decent hand, and drew into Winter Orb and Sphere of Resistance >_>

The main difference between the two is that a tuned Derevi list will have lots of ways to search for nasty creatures that AREN'T spells (i.e., they're activated or triggered abilities of other permanents), which is very strong. And the creatures Derevi can find with those abilities can lock up a board. The drawback is that it takes a few more steps than GAA4, but this is circumvented - to a certain extent anyways - by the early mana accel (usually mana dorks) that Green has access to. Still, a well timed Cursed Totem or Linvala can nullify the dorks and ruin Green's creature-based search engines/giant cheaty toys (Captain Sisay, Fauna Shaman, Elvish Piper, etc.).

In general for stax, though, GAA4 has a slight advantage because it's only 2 colours. Even with the best lands, 3 colours will nearly always necessitate a diffusion of focus when compared to 2 colours. GAA4's colours specialize in stax - artifacts, enchantments, and removal/counters, as well as the most efficient ways to search for those.

When you think about it, what does Green add to stax that White and Blue can't do better? If you answer "staxxy creatures," which is natural given Green's predilection towards creature builds, then the focus of the deck gets weakened. You're no longer just looking for artifacts and enchantments for your prison, but you're also spending resources getting creatures, which 1) take up deck-slots from removal/counters, and/or 2)"get in the way" (sorry, I couldn't think of a better way to say it) of important draws and top-deck filters.

I'm not denying that a tuned Derevi stax list is good, nor am I arguing that GAA4 is universally better. It's more or less a coin-toss, depending on the pilot. (For example, I don't know how to play Green. I'm not joking... I built a tuned Derevi deck a year ago. It was a good deck; everyone I lent it to won. I almost never won when I played it... because I don't know how to Green. ) Anyways, I'm simply giving my opinion as to which I think will make a more versatile and reliable stax deck

Quote from Jr. »

Quote from madhatter00o »

I bought a box of MM2 for drafting (and later cubing) with my buddy. So far, I've pulled Bitterblossom, Fulminator Mage, Daybreak Coronet, Leyline of Sanctity, Hurkyl's Recall, and Chimeric Mass. Can't say I'm disappointed. And because I bought the box, I keep the cards

Anyways, I'm thinking of building a Zur deck because of these pulls (second Bitterblossom and a Daybreak Coronet just scream "build Zur!"). It would be fun to make an Esper deck finally, but I don't have a large Playgroup (it's just me and that buddy, who doesn't always play EDH because games tend to be really one-sided, depending on whether or not he's borrowed one of my decks), so making another EDH seems a little pointless.

Damn, your playgroup is you and one other guy who doesn't always like to play EDH? That's rough man.

It's just how this cookie ended up crumbling. Actually, my buddy tried to get a Tokyo playgroup started by post g here on MTGS, but of all the people who responded, most of them ended up being die-hard Modern players who didn't even want to try other formats. Now, the Modern people just play by themselves, and my buddy and I play together.

I'm excited to see how Gideon and Jace turn out. I like WU...

Neither of them really do it for me in terms of their personalities, but at least Gideon's doesn't entirely suck.

I just hope that the art in the spoiler tags are NOT used on the actual cards. They're all pretty terrible, save for little-Chandra. She's adorable.

I dropped when I pulled a 'Goyf in Chiba. I live in Tokyo, so the trains to and from the venue, when added to the event price, were easily outmatched by the value of the card.

Ultimately, my card-pool was very strong for a Sealed deck: it would have been only too easy to make a U/G/splash W control deck, as I had multiple 2-drop counters and decent removal options. I didn't want to pass someone a strong card-pool (and the easy-street to victory) in addition to a money card. Plus, I'm greedy.

I bought a box of MM2 for drafting (and later cubing) with my buddy. So far, I've pulled Bitterblossom, Fulminator Mage, Daybreak Coronet, Leyline of Sanctity, Hurkyl's Recall, and Chimeric Mass. Can't say I'm disappointed. And because I bought the box, I keep the cards

Anyways, I'm thinking of building a Zur deck because of these pulls (second Bitterblossom and a Daybreak Coronet just scream "build Zur!"). It would be fun to make an Esper deck finally, but I don't have a large Playgroup (it's just me and that buddy, who doesn't always play EDH because games tend to be really one-sided, depending on whether or not he's borrowed one of my decks), so making another EDH seems a little pointless.

Quote from valoopy »

Back again. I've got a question for you: what do you think on using Muddle the Mixture? I like it for the options personally- either a tutor or counter. Not to mention if you've got a good stickable target you can go find the Scepter. I also run Grand Abolisher (as great protection and an alternate way to cast Omniscience), so he's a good target to pull up too. Anyway, what're your thoughts on it?

Apologies for the late reply. I was the GP Chiba (pulled a Tarmogoyf, so I dropped and played EDH all day) and then had to write a presentation... That's the long way of saying I was busy

I use Muddle the Mixture in Talrand as both a counter (for instant/sorcery) and as a tutor. It's a little disappointing as a tutor, since you have to use it at sorcery-speed. With Talrand, casting is very important, especially at instant-speed so that you have drakes to attack with on the following turn. Still, I find it pretty useful. Not optimal, but useful.

For GAA4, it depends very much on the other cards you are using. In my particular build, the other 2-drops (i.e., Transmute targets) tend to be counters, removal, or utility. I find it a bit of a waste to tutor for a counter, but finding Cyclonic Rift (it's technically a 2-drop! :D), the Stick, or Talisman of Progress (to go with Winter Orb or something) might be a good way to ensure that you have the right things you need. Unfortunately, none of the combos are searchable with Muddle the Mixuture...

Of course, I'm spoiled by instant-speed tutors, so the sorcery-speed Transmute effect puts me off a little. It basically means showing your oppenents what you're about to do way before you do it. This isn't always bad; you can use this to your political advantage. The Transmute cost also doesn't benefit from GAA4's discounts, so if you're running on a tight mana-budget (like I inevitably end up doing), Muddle the Mixture will probably just sit in your hand, as there are usually other things to cast on your turn (prison cards) or because you want to leave mana open during the round (to counter/remove threats on other people's turns).

I'm sure I've mentioned this before, but I far prefer hard counters to conditional ones like Muddle. I've played with conditional counters and find they usually just get in the way. If I've got a way to counter instants and sorceries and someone casts a creature or artifact or enchantment, I'm screwed. (And this happened a lot during my early experiments with the deck.) So, if I were to include Muddle in GAA4, it would be specifically as a tutor. In this version of GAA4, there are more than enough strong/oppressive Transmute targets; I'm just not entirely sold on it because I really like optimized cards. I wouldn't naturally use half of the abilities of Muddle the Mixture (i.e., it's counter ability), so it would only really be working at half-power.

HOWEVER! If your running Grand Abolisher (which I'm considering trying out myself... :D) and a bunch of other 2-drops that you feel you really NEED to make the deck work, I can definitely see a place for it in GAA4.

I pulled a Tarmogoyf in the GP so I dropped. My cardpool was stupid-good, too (for a Sealed tourney anyways), and I didn't want to give someone else a free pass to victory (in addition to the "money").

I played EDH all day instead as I waited for my friend who had continued in the tourney. I had brought only Talrand with me, and though it didn't win, it seriously impressed and irked enough people that I felt a personal victory. Besides, you got a random pack for a $5 (roughly) entry fee, and one of the packs I grabbed out of the grab-bag was MM2! It didn't have a highly sought-after card in it, buy I was satisfied nonetheless. I ended up selling the rares in DTK pack (1 foil, 1 regular) for about $10 anyways, so that made up for most of that day's entertainment.

Just want to get an idea of Horde, since I'm seriously considering making a Horde deck. I'm vaguely aware of the rules, but I'm missing the particulars. I tried to refer to the "EDH Variants" section of MTGS, but it's been overrun with Tiny Leaders.

Any clarification is appreciated!

1. Horde deck is mostly tokens, with some (usually non-targeting) spells that are cast as they come up.
- How many cards are revealed/cast each turn?

2. Horde creatures attack each turn, if able.
- They have haste, too?
- How does this work if the Horde has to pay mana to attack? (Like if Proaganda/Ghostly Prison is out.)

3. Any damage taken by the Horde is converted into milled cards. (e.g., 3 points of damage = mill 3 cards)
- Do tokens cease to exist when they hit the graveyard, or do they stay there, waiting for recursion shenanigans?
- The Horde is "dead" when it runs out of cards in the library, right?
- How is flashback usually dealt with? Just automatically on the following turn it was cast?

4. How are "draw card" effects handled?
- Say one of the "survivors" casts something that makes the table draw cards. Are cards drawn by the Horde played immediately?
--- If those cards are played immediately, then tokens just enter the battlefield and spells go on the Stack, right?

5. Are there any other special rules or conditions I should know about when I'm building the Horde deck?

Cheers!