MTG Salvation

Quote from Draco9

I would like to see a counterspell that uses Imperiosaur's drawback.

Ancient Whispers :2mana::symu:
Instant
Spend only mana produced by basic lands to cast Ancient Whispers.
Counter target spell.
"Psst..."

This, to me, is the most exciting counterspell at 2U in this thread. Maybe I just think people play nonbasics too often, but it actually feels fair with this drawback. I still wouldn't play it, (3 mana is generally too much for a counter in my decks) but that may be because I don't know why I would want to splash for a 3 cmc counterspell when I could just use the often superior Mana Leak.

Quote from ryzorz

@BetweenWalls: I was hesitant, since it's technically a soft counter.

Let Me Think About it... 1UU
Instant
Choose target non-Instant spell without Flash, then look at the top 3 cards of your library. You may scry 2, then draw a card. If you don't, counter that spell.

I thought soft counters could be stopped somehow. (as per mana leak) This doesn't hit instants, but it seems like it counters everything else fine at 3 mana. Since it can't hit anything with instant-speed, there should only be one spell on the stack prior to casting this, so I think some confusion could be avoided if it was worded thus:

Let Me Think About It... 1UU
Instant [Uncommon]
Look at the top 3 cards of your library. You may scry 2, then draw a card. If you don't, counter target non-Instant spell without flash.
"Just a moment. I should consult my library before deciding. You can't rush greatness!"

This next one has a mechanic that I've always been interested in. Spell control. It only exists on one card as far as I know - Commandeer. It seems like a very blue ability, and does have inherent advantages and disadvantages compared to countermagic... but has the possibility of being quite strong. Any ideas for making it playable?

Mindmeld 1UU
Instant [Rare]
The controller of target spell may scry X where X is its converted mana cost. Gain control of that spell. You may choose new targets for it.
"Excellent work. I'll take over from here."

Quote from Tranquilo

So, C is .... 1?

Except for the fact that it can't be paid for by colorless mana, yes. That detail probably doesn't matter much unless colorless spells (and mana generation) play a larger role than they do now. Certainly not something for the core sets.

Quote from ryzorz

Let me think about it... 2U
Instant (u)
Choose target non-instant spell without Flash. Look at the top 3 cards of your library. You may scry 2, then draw a card. If you don't, counter that spell.

I like the options on this, though the first sentence is a little weird and it is quite powerful, like you said. I typically don't run any 3 cmc counterspells now, but I would definitely consider this one, even at a more appropriate cost of 1UU.

Also, whoops on Interrupted Channel. It seems to be a near copy of Rethink. I'm getting away from the broad power of countermagic with this next one. The more I consider it, the more narrow it appears. I think I may right up a short guide to the colors to remind myself which abilities are present in each one. Make sure I'm not forgetting anything.

Sway of Wills UU
Instant [Uncommon]
Gain control of up to 2 target creatures with converted mana costs of 1 or less. Untap those creatures.
"These small minds are so many and so easy to manipulate."

Quote from TheOnlyOne652089

Eternal does not matter for design.

Before Modern, I would have agreed.

Here are some ideas for blue counterspells...

Guesswork U
Instant [Uncommon]
Target opponent names a card. You may reveal your hand. If you do, and the named card is not in your hand, counter target spell with a converted mana cost of 3 or less.
"So... you're psychic then?"

Interrupted Channel UU
Instant [Common]
Counter target spell unless its controller pays X, where X is its converted mana cost.
"Wonderful, now I have to start all over again."

Insight of the Blue Mage :chaos::symu::symu:
Instant [Uncommon]
(:chaos: can be payed with one mana of any color.)
Counter target spell. If you payed for :chaos:, you may draw a card.
"Dedicate yourself to your own school of magic and you too may find such insight."


Staying in blue, here are some ideas for non-counterspells...

Seer's Guidance U
Instant [Uncommon]
Scry 1, then draw a card.
Flashback 1UUU (You may cast this card from your graveyard for its flashback cost. Then exile it.)
"Listen, young one, and you shall grow wise beyond your dreams."

Icy Gail UU
Instant [Uncommon]
Tap target permanent. It doesn't untap during its controller's next untap step. Until it's untapped, its activated abilities can't be activated. Draw a card.
"It's quite cold outside today. Why not stay inside and read next to the fire?"

Shrewd Beguiler 1UU
Creature - Vedalken Wizard [Rare]
Flash
When another creature or planeswalker comes into play under an opponents control, exchange control of ~ with it.
1/3
"I am always on the winning side."

I think the most interesting cards are often multicolored, so this was a little tough for me. I think a series of cards based on the mechanic from Insight of the Blue Mage would be rather neat, however. It seems that the idea of different 'schools' of magic has largely gone undeveloped in magic. There's a lot of flavor to be had there.

Quote from jedimindtricks

"Spell bounce" like demonstration of control is a little worse memory lapse. They still get to draw a new card the next turn. I don't like that if I'm playing the control deck. Counters just need to be restricted like removal. Like negate and remove soul.

Mind's reflection is pretty brilliant. I like it. It has drawbacks (you might die to a cast sword or inferno Titan trigger for example). It's pretty insane in commander. Instant staple there. I like this topic as its making me think very hard about how to make counters viable and accepted more by newer players. I'll have to give it more thought and see what I come up with.

Thanks for the kind words! Take a look at Gather Specimens if you like Mind's Reflection. Demonstration of Control does have spell bounce, which is more of a tempo element than a purely control element, but it's also modal, so there are ways to get advantage out of it. I was a little iffy even including that mode because it's so similar to 'counter target spell'. I'm trying to look at alternative controlling techniques.

Quote from Tranquilo

@Demonstration of Control: Cryptic Command's little brother. I like it but it shouldn't be a common.

I agree - it does seem too powerful for common.

Quote from Tranquilo

@Toxic Fervor: I fail to see the counterspell component here. In fact I see white infect or black damage redirection as great colorbleeders.

This probably shouldn't have hybrid mana costs, but the original idea was to nullify damage and either kill or weaken one of your opponent's creatures. As long as you're taking less than 10 damage from their creatures, it'll essentially be nullified if they aren't using poison as a win condition. It isn't blue at all, so there is no 'counterspell' component for that purpose. It should be noted that unless you're running quite a lot of damage redirection, you can't use this card to kill your opponent with poison.

Quote from Tranquilo

@Foretold Prophecy: Not only this is overpowered it's also convoluted.

It is overpowered. As Binary says, absurd even. Even quite complicated. I haven't played with storm much in my playgroup, so perhaps a Replicate cost would be better suited? Nix the last ability completely in favor of an altered draw ability? I do still like the concept of life gain combined with card draw. I feel like it could be a fun card if the conditional card draw was more restricted. (say unable to target 1cmc spells)

Quote from Tranquilo

I prefer different conditional countermagic, so that a deck needs to adapt and sideboard against some opponents. Negate, Mana Leak and Flashfreeze are great examples.

Those are all fine counterspells, but I'm trying to avoid that mechanic here.

Quote from Glimyrpost

Moment of thought 1U
instant - U
Exile target spell, cast it from exile at the beginning of its owners next upkeep.

This is functionally equivalent to the following then? The biggest issue I have with it is that it will likely always constitute card disadvantage. It's similar to Remand but doesn't cantrip and allows the spell to be cast for free. I think it could do with some kind of added benefit. Scry perhaps?

Moment of Thought 1U
Instant [Uncommon]
Counter target spell. If that spell is countered this way, exile it instead of putting it into its owner's graveyard. It gains Suspend 1.


Here's another from me:

Dig Deep xUR
Instant [Rare]
Dig Deep deals X damage to target creature or player
Scry X, then draw a card.
"Did you find it yet? No? Keep digging!"

EDIT: This one doesn't follow the requirements I stated at the beginning. It's definitely not defensive. Perhaps if it could only hit attacking creatures and was xWU...? Here's another to make up for it:

Insanity 3UU
Creature - Incarnation [Rare]
Flash, Flying
When ~ comes into play, gain control of target creature. Untap that creature. It gains Cumulative Upkeep - U.
3/4
"It's coming for me! It's coming for me! It's c-aaauughh!"

People hate counterspells. They prefer having their permanents removed instead of countered. Wizards of the Coast isn't going to reprint Counterspell, and classic control hasn't truly been supported in some time with Magic's recent focus on the battlefield instead of the hand.

I posted here about this and am curious what kind of development space is available for replacing (at least partially) countermagic in classic control decks.

I offer this challenge to you: Build a card (or cards) that meets the following requirements:

1. Must be able to be used reactively (at instant speed)
2. Must not provide card disadvantage
3. Must answer one or more threats (at least temporarily)
4. Must be able to answer a variety of threats
5. Must be defensive in nature (i.e. not provide a threat in itself)



I'll start...

Demonstration of Control :mana::SymU::SymU:
Instant [Common]
Choose one - Tap target permanent and draw a card; or return up to two other target spells to their owner's hands; or gain control of target creature until end of turn.
"In order to pass your final test, young wizard, show us a demonstration of your control."

Toxic Fervor :mana::SymWB::SymWB:
Instant [Uncommon]
Creatures your opponents control gain infect until end of turn.
The next 2 damage that a source of your choice would deal this turn is dealt to target creature or player instead.
"We have no other option. Release the gas, constable."

Foretold Prophecy UW
Instant [Uncommon]
Gain life equal to the converted mana cost of target spell. Draw a card if you've gained less than 5 life this turn.
Storm (When you cast this spell, copy it for each spell cast before it this turn.)
"This moment has been spoken of through the ages. We have listened. We are ready."

Mind's Reflection 2UU
Instant [Rare]
If a permanent would enter the battlefield under an opponents' control this turn, you may put a copy of that permanent into play.
"If you cannot defeat your own mind, what use are you to me?
- Xelegos, Battlemage"


While Demonstration of Control lies dangerously close to countermagic land, I had trouble thinking of an interesting common. The power level may of course be off as these are just some ideas I jotted down quickly. Please critique and offer your own suggestions. I'll likely continue with a few of my own later, as well as include a more detailed explanation for what each spell's purpose is.

Quote from necrogenesis

Players have hated control for a long time - much longer than live coverage was as large an issue as it is today.

I've certainly seen this, and it's been even more visible in new players, but if that's the end of the discussion, then WotC will never truly support classic control again. I'd like that not to be the case. Players like being able to affect the game state in some way. Countermagic denies them that ability - plenty of removal can be used reactively, but is usually more narrow than a counterspell. Since the primary offender here seems to be countermagic, perhaps there is development space for spells that can replace (at least partially) countermagic in classic control decks?

Requirements for such a card:
1. Must be able to be used reactively (at instant speed)
2. Must not provide card disadvantage
3. Must answer one or more threats (at least temporarily)
4. Must be able to answer a variety of threats
5. Must be defensive in nature (i.e. not provide a threat in itself)

I can think of a number of card variations that would fit these criteria. This may not be the correct forum to discuss such specific ideas, but I am curious if this might appeal to WotC. As I feel that they discovered that players dislike countermagic specifically and not control in general, providing alternatives to countermagic seems a more holistic approach than simply printing more powerful creatures.

As far as tournament commentary goes, if the players can hear the commentators while playing, there is something wrong with the venue. Poker tournaments are often televised, with commentary, and the cards are always captured on camera, even when those cards are lying face down 99% of the time. I don't think it's infeasible that a game as profitable as Magic can include cameras for this purpose at large events.

After reading through [Discussion] The Role of Control in Modern, I'd like to share my thoughts on Wizard's stance toward the 'classic control' archetype.

First, the major archetypes as defined by orbz621 in that thread:

Aggro- drop lots of threats, turn sideways.
Control- answer threats from the opponent until the opponent is unable to do anything useful, then win.
Tempo- drop threats, protect them with control elements while turning sideways.
Combo- stall and dig until you combo out.
Midrange- in between tempo and control, stops early threats, drops solid mid game creatures and supports them.

Unfortunately, it seems that the control archetype is suffering from a lack of card support.

While many decks care about card advantage, classic control (ie. Weissman style) aims to win via card advantage. The draw-go style can be fun to play, but I understand that it is not always the most fun to watch. This, I believe, is because draw-go players tend to focus on their hand instead of the battlefield. When televised games offer a top-down perspective of a game, the battlefield (and not the players hands) is what is visible. Thus, the viewer can't appreciate classical control as compared to the other major archetypes.

As I'm only a casual follower of the game, my viewpoint could very well be skewed - does this explanation make sense for Wizard's lack of support for the control archetype? Do they realize that showing the ENTIRE game on camera might improve public opinion of classic control? I'd like all of the archetypes to be supported and am wondering what options are available for ensuring that this widespread support will be desirable for Wizards in the future of the modern format.