Better way to deal with Angel of Serenity than the Evil Twins I saw in a feature last at the SCG Open last weekend.
It's actually not. I'd have won that game if I had any idea he was playing Rakdos' Return (or if I had sideboarded correctly, didn't put him on Frites after game one cause I lost so quick to mana screw). The exiling the angel might be more potent in that one instance, but it's too fragile and slow to do what you want at most any point of the game.
Haha I thought that might be you! I saw the match actually, and I think you lost one of the first games because your manabase is a little greedy. You only have 2 more green sources than I run but you have single green requirements in Farseek on turn 2, and double green requirements with Wolfir Avenger on turn 3, and that just isn't feasible until we get the Simic and Gruul lands. The black splash is very interesting though, and I can imagine it isn't too hard with 2 other Shock lands we can run. I might try it out so I can splash Dreadbore, Vraska, Olivia, and Rakdos' Return as those 4 cards help us out a lot in almost every matchup.
And regarding your play, you did fine, he happened to draw 1) all his angels, and 2) both his returns, could you have played around it or gained more life that turn and won? Yes, but everyone makes mistakes, I'm sure everyone has had much worse punts before, I know I have.
I really do think the black splash is worth it. It actually helps the mana base in ways, cause you can farseek for an Overgrown tomb if you want double green. Vraska, Slaughter Games and Dreadbore are also just better against control matchups than most other cards we could run in RUG.
I kept a questionable hand game one that was 3 land (no double green), a huntmaster, Avenger, and 2 Thragtusk. I thought it was an ok keep in a game one because the huntmaster and tusks would keep me in it until I hit my more powerful cards but I missed the 4th land drop for 2 turns and died before I hit my 5th. It was the only game in the whole tourney I had mana problems, just happened to be the first one on camera, so that sucked
Your mana-base scares me a bit, gotta say.
How'd you end up going?
Also, I had a general question regarding other RUG. How do we deal with the big cranky cards like Angel of Serenity? If you are running counter spells you can't guarantee they will be around - they will likely stick a fatty eventually. What's our plan?
I was doing very well until I played the feature match. I don't know if anyone here watched but I was the round 5 feature match on SCGLive. Was 3-0-1 at that point then lost to Frites in a game I never should have and to UWR control which is a tough matchup, 3-2-1 drop.
Let's just say maybe the only thing that can hold off a Tamiyo ultimate is your opp hitting all 4 Angel of Serenity then doming you for 25 over two turns with Rakdos' Return. I could go over all the things I did wrong in that match but I've done nothing but think about it for 2 days so I'm gonna let it go... lol
Correct me if I'm wrong, but could he not have Dreadbore his own Thragtusk and replay it to get out of Rakdos range?
Yes, yes I could have. Popping in to say that at least I can be known as the only player to lose with a Tamiyo emblem on camera (not that I'm proud of that fact). I could have played that game differently in so many ways to put myself in a better position, but I did not expect Rakdos' Return. I knew he had to have the second one, it was the only thing that made that play make sense, but instead of figuring out how to get above 13 life, I just played my life gain creatures and passed. It also didn't help that I was thinking that entire game about how I wish I could Cyclonic Rift my own guys, but never once thought about the Dreadbore. C'est la vie. Glad everyone at least enjoyed watching that game, lol.
Realize that this is a game, not the stock market.
I don't forsee a huge drop in price, anyway.
That's not entirely true. As a collectible card game, the nature of individual card pricing is very much like a stock market. Some choose to fixate on this idea that their cards are of true monetary value and feel good with their "investment". Problem is you have to know when to sell these stocks. You can't just sit on them and be sad when their value changes because they can be printed in higher volume at any time.
Because maybe I want my cards to be worth something? Its like asking why someone is upset when their stocks plunge.
This mentality only makes sense if you ever plan on selling said cards. You've had Goyfs since Future Sight. Never sold them. If you've played and have been playing them then you plan on keeping them and have been getting value out of their inclusion in your decks. If you've been hoarding them cause you feel good that you have $400 in cardboard, then it is your loss and your decision to keep them rather than sell them when they're high.
Stop complaining that your collectible (and continually printing) card game fluctuates in prices. That's the name of the game.
I 4-0ed FNM with this list that I'm probably gonna take to SCG Indy tomorrow, with some slight changes to the sideboard. It's not straight RUG, as I splash black for a variety of sideboard choices, but it is essentially a RUG midrange deck and this is the closest topic to its archetype.
The mana is not as bad as it would seem, as the only problem you may have is having red on turn 1 on the draw for a Pillar of Flame, and splashing black also allows you to farseek for an overgrown tomb to insure double green for a Wolfir Avenger, etc.
I like that the card value in a list like this gives you a pretty good game 1 against control, while having a very good game 1 against aggro, and after sideboard, you have way more anti control cards. I'll try to remember as much of the tourney as I can, but didn't write it down, unfortunately.
Round 1: U/R Delver (2-0)
Pillars and early mortars kept early delvers from dealing too much damage, while huntmaster applied pressure and some life padding. He tapped out for Talrand and played a spell to make a token in both games, I followed up with an overloaded Mortars and that was that.
Round 2: Junk Tokens (2-0)
Kept him off mana dorks in game 1 which got him stuck on 3 lands and no white mana, but he dropped a Garruk before I slowed him down. Tamiyo kept his one eventual plains tapped long enough that I got all 4 walkers going before he drew more white to get his utility lands activated. At that point a timely overload or two took the game over.
Game 2 was a drawn out affair that ended with an Evil Twin copying his Angel of Serenity, both getting me back two Tusks and clearing his Angel.
Round 3: U/W/R Miracles (2-0)
Vraska was MVP game 1, killing a Tamiyo at 7. Garruk and Tamiyo of my own, with an overloaded Rift to bounce his hoard of Angels took game 1. Game 2 more Vraska and Dreadbore kept his walkers from doing much, and Niv-Mizzet sealed late game.
Round 4: Mono Red (2-0)
The aggro matchup is pretty solid as is. Pillar and Izzet charm kept his early beaters in check, Huntmaster and Thragtusk kept me comfortable and he ran out of gas. No changes from sideboard in game 2, just more of the same.
I have to figure out the sideboard a bit more, debating on Staticaster over Golgari Charm. I like the repeatable threat of Staticaster against tokens, but Golgari charm can do the deed at an opportune time while also killing Intangible Virtues and Favorable Winds. Will let you know if I decide to get up early enough tomorrow to make it to Indy
he combos in the sense of doubling up the counters.
But yes, I do agree that it is a very green mechanic, and could have easily been on a mono-green creature. The only thing going for it is the creature type fungus, which has been historically rather green/black
I've been meaning to ask a judge about this, but since he states to double counters whenever they are placed on a creature you control, doesn't that NOT work with undying and Scavenge? Since the creatures enter the battlefield with the counters on them, they are never actually placed on the creature.
Something is better than nothing. I, for one, am glad they're printing it. The limited availability and high price tag also has me very excited.
The only people I hear that are happy about the limited run are people who are lucky enough to have a copy locked up. When there are 30+ people in your community or area that all want this and the store gets 4, people willing to pay good money for what could be a great product get boned. Being happy you have yours and feeling like its an investment for no reason other than because they decided to make it that way makes you a douche.
That is a true statement - Advanced stores are getting 4 & other stores are getting 2 - Have we not talked about this before? <----(Serious question, could be I've only discussed it on some other boards/in person).
I have always thought FTV was very limited - to go less than that amount does seem rather ridiculous, but I wonder if since this was not a planned product - they just didn't have enough room(time) in their printers to print more copies of an unplanned product.
Now that you mention it, that does sound familiar, although I must not have realized it. My LGS owner certainly didn't know until tonight. If it truly is the case that they just didn't have enough time, they should have skipped a special product for this quarter (since they're printing so damn many already) until they could provide an adequate amount.
Just informed by my LGS owner that WotC is only allocating 4 of these per store. Many, many attempts from said owner as to why this is were met with silence. I understand the desire to generate more buzz and higher prices for brick and mortar stores by making this a limited thing, but this is anemic and obscene. There are over 20 people at this one shop who would pay handsomely for this product, but now they'll have to throw ridiculous amounts at the secondary market for any singles they might want, instead of just selling a bunch of regularly priced copies to a bunch of would-be-satisfied customers.
If I'm reading it right, you can exile 3 of their guys and get 3 of your own back on the same trigger?
Nah, it's just a shortened wording, you only get 3 targets total. If it were that way, it'd say Exile up to three target creatures and/or exile 3 target creature cards...
That Rafiq is so boss. Jesus man I've never gotten a commission before but I may have to ask for one from you.
It's actually not. I'd have won that game if I had any idea he was playing Rakdos' Return (or if I had sideboarded correctly, didn't put him on Frites after game one cause I lost so quick to mana screw). The exiling the angel might be more potent in that one instance, but it's too fragile and slow to do what you want at most any point of the game.
I really do think the black splash is worth it. It actually helps the mana base in ways, cause you can farseek for an Overgrown tomb if you want double green. Vraska, Slaughter Games and Dreadbore are also just better against control matchups than most other cards we could run in RUG.
I kept a questionable hand game one that was 3 land (no double green), a huntmaster, Avenger, and 2 Thragtusk. I thought it was an ok keep in a game one because the huntmaster and tusks would keep me in it until I hit my more powerful cards but I missed the 4th land drop for 2 turns and died before I hit my 5th. It was the only game in the whole tourney I had mana problems, just happened to be the first one on camera, so that sucked
I was doing very well until I played the feature match. I don't know if anyone here watched but I was the round 5 feature match on SCGLive. Was 3-0-1 at that point then lost to Frites in a game I never should have and to UWR control which is a tough matchup, 3-2-1 drop.
Let's just say maybe the only thing that can hold off a Tamiyo ultimate is your opp hitting all 4 Angel of Serenity then doming you for 25 over two turns with Rakdos' Return. I could go over all the things I did wrong in that match but I've done nothing but think about it for 2 days so I'm gonna let it go... lol
Yes, yes I could have. Popping in to say that at least I can be known as the only player to lose with a Tamiyo emblem on camera (not that I'm proud of that fact). I could have played that game differently in so many ways to put myself in a better position, but I did not expect Rakdos' Return. I knew he had to have the second one, it was the only thing that made that play make sense, but instead of figuring out how to get above 13 life, I just played my life gain creatures and passed. It also didn't help that I was thinking that entire game about how I wish I could Cyclonic Rift my own guys, but never once thought about the Dreadbore. C'est la vie. Glad everyone at least enjoyed watching that game, lol.
That's not entirely true. As a collectible card game, the nature of individual card pricing is very much like a stock market. Some choose to fixate on this idea that their cards are of true monetary value and feel good with their "investment". Problem is you have to know when to sell these stocks. You can't just sit on them and be sad when their value changes because they can be printed in higher volume at any time.
This mentality only makes sense if you ever plan on selling said cards. You've had Goyfs since Future Sight. Never sold them. If you've played and have been playing them then you plan on keeping them and have been getting value out of their inclusion in your decks. If you've been hoarding them cause you feel good that you have $400 in cardboard, then it is your loss and your decision to keep them rather than sell them when they're high.
Stop complaining that your collectible (and continually printing) card game fluctuates in prices. That's the name of the game.
3 Wolfir Avenger
4 Huntmaster of the Fells
4 Thragtusk
1 Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius
Spells:
4 Pillar of Flame
4 Farseek
3 Izzet Charm
3 Mizzium Mortars
2 Cyclonic Rift
Planeswalkers:
3 Jace, Architect of Thought
2 Tamiyo, the Moon Sage
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Vraska the Unseen
4 Steam Vents
4 Sulfur Falls
4 Hinterland Harbor
4 Rootbound Crag
3 Overgrown Tomb
2 Blood Crypt
2 Island
2 Forest
3 Evil Twin
3 Golgari Charm
3 Slaughter Games
2 Jace, Memory Adept
2 Dreadbore
1 Vraska the Unseen
1 Olivia Voldaren
I like that the card value in a list like this gives you a pretty good game 1 against control, while having a very good game 1 against aggro, and after sideboard, you have way more anti control cards. I'll try to remember as much of the tourney as I can, but didn't write it down, unfortunately.
Round 1: U/R Delver (2-0)
Pillars and early mortars kept early delvers from dealing too much damage, while huntmaster applied pressure and some life padding. He tapped out for Talrand and played a spell to make a token in both games, I followed up with an overloaded Mortars and that was that.
Round 2: Junk Tokens (2-0)
Kept him off mana dorks in game 1 which got him stuck on 3 lands and no white mana, but he dropped a Garruk before I slowed him down. Tamiyo kept his one eventual plains tapped long enough that I got all 4 walkers going before he drew more white to get his utility lands activated. At that point a timely overload or two took the game over.
Game 2 was a drawn out affair that ended with an Evil Twin copying his Angel of Serenity, both getting me back two Tusks and clearing his Angel.
Round 3: U/W/R Miracles (2-0)
Vraska was MVP game 1, killing a Tamiyo at 7. Garruk and Tamiyo of my own, with an overloaded Rift to bounce his hoard of Angels took game 1. Game 2 more Vraska and Dreadbore kept his walkers from doing much, and Niv-Mizzet sealed late game.
Round 4: Mono Red (2-0)
The aggro matchup is pretty solid as is. Pillar and Izzet charm kept his early beaters in check, Huntmaster and Thragtusk kept me comfortable and he ran out of gas. No changes from sideboard in game 2, just more of the same.
I have to figure out the sideboard a bit more, debating on Staticaster over Golgari Charm. I like the repeatable threat of Staticaster against tokens, but Golgari charm can do the deed at an opportune time while also killing Intangible Virtues and Favorable Winds. Will let you know if I decide to get up early enough tomorrow to make it to Indy
I've been meaning to ask a judge about this, but since he states to double counters whenever they are placed on a creature you control, doesn't that NOT work with undying and Scavenge? Since the creatures enter the battlefield with the counters on them, they are never actually placed on the creature.
except that he doesn't o.O
The only people I hear that are happy about the limited run are people who are lucky enough to have a copy locked up. When there are 30+ people in your community or area that all want this and the store gets 4, people willing to pay good money for what could be a great product get boned. Being happy you have yours and feeling like its an investment for no reason other than because they decided to make it that way makes you a douche.
Now that you mention it, that does sound familiar, although I must not have realized it. My LGS owner certainly didn't know until tonight. If it truly is the case that they just didn't have enough time, they should have skipped a special product for this quarter (since they're printing so damn many already) until they could provide an adequate amount.
Nah, it's just a shortened wording, you only get 3 targets total. If it were that way, it'd say Exile up to three target creatures and/or exile 3 target creature cards...