I think we are on two totally separate ideas. I am speaking of the shock and awe felt (around the world actually) that America actually elected a man like Trump despite him doing and saying things that are now socially unacceptable. I am speaking in regard to millions of posts quoting "What am I going to tell my daughter?" and "America really is racist". I am speaking of celebrities, talk show hosts and television anchors blatantly saying they are shocked we elected a "racist sexist xenophobic" president. Not just immediately following the election, but even as the states turned colors.
Its the revelation that many people either feel that way OR they don't see that as something that would discourage them from voting for him.
If you are selling the idea that the masses were ONLY shocked BECAUSE the poll data suggested otherwise, then you've got your head in the sand. Or you're just being flippant.
America would be just as racist if Trump had received a few ten thousand fewer votes in the right places and lost the presidency. The worry people express about what to tell their children isn't a revelation - we all already knew America is racist. The surprise was the that the polls were off, not that millions of people are happy to support racism.
You all did? Who all? MTGS? A handful of debate posters who spend time pouring over the internet for data? Or literally everyone - including all white people - and all white people who rarely have to deal with race issues unless someone's in their face about it or rioting in a far away city? They all knew? Knew something more than a mob of people are busy destroying their own neighborhood and behaving terribly?
How about my original post - the one that you replied to acting like a bitter jerk, spouting about polls I never mentioned
I believe social media, mainstream media, television and the internet do a very good job of silencing opinions they don't like. This leads people to believe that everyone (the overwhelming majority) thinks the same - that everyone is on the same page. On the night of the election, you could see just how shocked every news anchor (and comedians like Trevor Noah) were. I think the same of this forum - if you drive out everyone potentially guilty of wrongthink, you've only tricked yourself. I also believe (per another thread) that hitting people with the racist or bigot stick on every topic or repeatedly demonizing white people simply shuts down the conversation. In this very thread alone there's many negative comments demonizing white people - that's acceptable racism.
Here's my points so you don't fabricate any:
-I believe social media, mainstream media, television and the internet do a very good job of silencing opinions they don't like
-This leads people to believe that everyone (the overwhelming majority) thinks the same - that everyone is on the same page
-If you drive out everyone potentially guilty of wrongthink, you've only tricked yourself
-I also believe (per another thread) that hitting people with the racist or bigot stick on every topic or repeatedly demonizing white people simply shuts down the conversation.
-In this very thread alone there's many negative comments demonizing white people - that's acceptable racism.
I believe social media, mainstream media, television and the internet do a very good job of silencing opinions they don't like. This leads people to believe that everyone (the overwhelming majority) thinks the same - that everyone is on the same page. On the night of the election, you could see just how shocked every news anchor (and comedians like Trevor Noah) were.
Now, sure, some people were shocked on Nov. 8 because of the echo chamber. The Huffington Post projected a Clinton win with 99% confidence -- that was clearly bull. But some people were shocked because the result was legitimately shocking. Polling data are not an echo chamber, and they really did favor Clinton from beginning to end. Trump himself has said that he went into Election Day expecting to lose. And, of course, Trump did lose the popular vote; the polls weren't that far from wrong.
Were there people out there who were confident Trump would win? Oh yes. The Huffington Post may have given Clinton 99% odds, but I also saw Trump supporters projecting that he would be the first candidate to sweep all fifty states. They could only be so confident by being in their own echo chamber: one which insulated them from the data or told them to ignore them. This echo chamber also had to downplay Trump's naked self-interest, his utter contempt for facts, and his myriad failings as a human being while at the same time spinning Hillary Clinton into a criminal mastermind on the basis of no evidence whatsoever. So considering one echo chamber elected a man totally unfit for the White House, while the other chamber merely thought that guy would lose, no points for guessing which one I'm more concerned about right now.
I suppose I tend to lump twitter in with MSN commentary - full of trolls protected by the internet. But an example to my thinking is say, your real face book account. If you posted half of the things he's been critisized for, you'd likely have real life consquences for it. People would de-friend you. People would flame you (hell, you can be mobbed for posting that you don't support oxycontin subs). Its not unthinkable to get a thousand negative comments or more for a socially unacceptable statement. Maybe ten thousand comments. You might have to shut down your face book. You could certainly get fired for it. If its bad enough, your post might even be on the front page of MSN, or on Ellen's show. This applies to the workplace, or even the bar. Nobody dares tell a racial joke or make a bigoted statement. When someone does, I'm thinking "Ummmm you can get fired for that..."
I do think this leads (some) people to believe that everyone in society (or at least everyone they know on FB, or at the office, or people around them) are on the same page. Then comes a man who says whatever he damn pleases (and has no experience in politics) and guess what... he won a presidential election. You really wouldn't think that possible, given you could be fired for the same statements he makes. You really wouldn't think there's THAT MANY out there either.
My reference to MTGS is because its not really that different. There's a long list of things (or views) you dare not express because you know exactly whats going to happen (say, immigration, abortion or... CLIMATE CHANGE ROFL!) Its either going to be the racist bat, the bigot stick or the dunce hat. And once anyone retaining the last of conservative views is gone, what's left? A group of people just nodding in agreement - like an echo chamber. How much is really achieved?
The shocking revelation that despite all the things he's said, the things he's done and the principles he campaigned on, a staggering amount of people voted for him (and enough in the right places to win an election.) The very IDEA that he'll be in the white house.
The echo chamber in social media is not smear articles and polling. Its people all nodding their head in agreement on (all of the issues involved) repeating the same views back to each other (echo... echo..) because they've stomped out the opposing view, thus lead to believe nobody like Trump could get elected. Because that's racist. And that's sexist. And that's xenophobic. And everyone cares about polar bears. Right? Right.
That is, the revelation.
Everyone always knew a staggering amount of people would vote for him. The only question was whether he'd be soundly defeated or squeak out a win. The polling data suggested the former was more likely. That's why people believed he wouldn't be elected - because the evidence supported that conclusion.
I think we are on two totally separate ideas. I am speaking of the shock and awe felt (around the world actually) that America actually elected a man like Trump despite him doing and saying things that are now socially unacceptable. I am speaking in regard to millions of posts quoting "What am I going to tell my daughter?" and "America really is racist". I am speaking of celebrities, talk show hosts and television anchors blatantly saying they are shocked we elected a "racist sexist xenophobic" president. Not just immediately following the election, but even as the states turned colors.
Its the revelation that many people either feel that way OR they don't see that as something that would discourage them from voting for him.
If you are selling the idea that the masses were ONLY shocked BECAUSE the poll data suggested otherwise, then you've got your head in the sand. Or you're just being flippant.
I believe social media, mainstream media, television and the internet do a very good job of silencing opinions they don't like. This leads people to believe that everyone (the overwhelming majority) thinks the same - that everyone is on the same page. On the night of the election, you could see just how shocked every news anchor (and comedians like Trevor Noah) were. I think the same of this forum - if you drive out everyone potentially guilty of wrongthink, you've only tricked yourself. I also believe (per another thread) that hitting people with the racist or bigot stick on every topic or repeatedly demonizing white people simply shuts down the conversation. In this very thread alone there's many negative comments demonizing white people - that's acceptable racism.
So the "revelation" was that polling in a few states was off by a percentage point or two? Wow, what a revelation! World-shattering!
Why are you talking about polling data?
The shocking revelation that despite all the things he's said, the things he's done and the principles he campaigned on, a staggering amount of people voted for him (and enough in the right places to win an election.) The very IDEA that he'll be in the white house.
The echo chamber in social media is not smear articles and polling. Its people all nodding their head in agreement on (all of the issues involved) repeating the same views back to each other (echo... echo..) because they've stomped out the opposing view, thus lead to believe nobody like Trump could get elected. Because that's racist. And that's sexist. And that's xenophobic. And everyone cares about polar bears. Right? Right.
That was the best part of the whole election - the revelation of many.
And what revelation is that?
I believe social media, mainstream media, television and the internet do a very good job of silencing opinions they don't like. This leads people to believe that everyone (the overwhelming majority) thinks the same - that everyone is on the same page. On the night of the election, you could see just how shocked every news anchor (and comedians like Trevor Noah) were. I think the same of this forum - if you drive out everyone potentially guilty of wrongthink, you've only tricked yourself. I also believe (per another thread) that hitting people with the racist or bigot stick on every topic or repeatedly demonizing white people simply shuts down the conversation. In this very thread alone there's many negative comments demonizing white people - that's acceptable racism.
I mean, Yeah. I'm pretty sure at this point we're singing to the choir here. While the posters here have a wide array of beliefs, I feel the majority of posters left on the debate forum are not looking forward to a Trump presidency. I'm not sure who here wants to debate promoting nuclear proliferation and/or modernization (the of which, I'd like to point out, was something President Obama began).
I never knew the word for this until recent events: echo chamber.
That was the best part of the whole election - the revelation of many.
If trends towards disenfranchisement continue under the current guise of "ID Laws", it'd probably be her first priority to start shuttling people to the DMV and ready to help contribute to the pound of flesh and xanax that could be added to the poll taxes process. In fact, she may want to get started now in case the process does start getting more strenuous in the future.
I live in Ohio. Voting requires a form of identification (commonly drivers license or state ID, though utility bill and other things are accepted) Its never taken me more than 15 minutes to vote. Every adult should have BC, SS and valid ID. Figure out the system. Its damn hard to do anything at the BMV without these. At least two of them are no charge. God forbid you get a suspension for not having it - asking friends to drive you out of county to an office that can reinstate it is a huge hassle and can come with a lot of fines. Don't cry about the $25 or having to wait at the SS office with old people who occupy the sole teller for 3 hours. We all have to do it. Figure out the system. And while I'm on the soap box - pay the credit card balance off every month, keep at least 2 months pay in a savings account, don't buy ***** you can't afford, cigarettes (and weed) are bad for your lungs and a huge waste of money.
When Ohio State wins against Michigan, they tip over cars.
When Ohio state loses to Michigan, they tip over cars.
When Obama won the election in 2008 there was a rise in hate crimes following, according to the SPLC
So, in other words, it's not the case that "feeling like they're under siege" is what drives them to violence - they just like committing violence.
No. In other words, there will always be people who see events as an opportunity to act out their existing motives. We simply cannot build theories of cause and effect on such behavior, or make generalizations on masses based on the actions of a handful of people.
That is a completely different scenario compared to decades of war and oppression driving people into desperation and thus joining a bad cause and committing acts of terror.
I get where he's coming from. Day after day for months, it has only been (in no specific order)
Trump did bad thing
Trump losing polls
Five reasons Trump won't win
Trump meet with these other people - that's bad.
Trumps plans for trade agree ment - that's bad.
How Trump's plan can hurt insurance companies
How Trump's plan can hurt minorities.
Five more reasons Trump won't win.
Trump other tweet bad.
How Trump's plan is just... bad. (if there was one, lol)
Trump apoint person - that's bad
TRUMP WENT TO DINNER AND DIDN'T TELL US. THAT IS BAD
AND HE WON
This is still occuring almost... twice thrice a day now on the front page of MSN? We're almost at the point where the media is working hard to FIND things to keep it going. Like they are clearly, obviously out to get em.
And every time the crap storm in the other thread is renewed, as the crap circles the internet.
You are asking to review over a years worth of news, post how they portray said bias, and then also prove or disprove whether they are wrong. Being the debate forum, that is understandable. But must he really do that to convey this same idea?
Its not limited to Trump.
How many articles have I read in the past few years "the suspect was black, and the officer was white." You will never, ever read "suspect was white and the officer was black." or "the suspect was black and the officer was black." They simply don't post the race of people involved otherwise. I firmly believe the AP actually contributes to racial tensions in America by doing this.
However all that said, @Typhoon don't always view this as "liberal bias". Think about it - if you were in charge of a news outlet your goal would be to attain as many clicks, reads and shares as possible. Whats currently trending and what do people tend to click on? DRAMA. ANGER. SHOCKING NEWS. CONTROVERSY.
Edit: And remember, they did the same thing to Obama around the clock (especially regarding national deficit and obamacare), and would always find a photo of him mid-syllable, so that he looked as sad and pathetic as possible.
And that's what they feed people. TBH, taking breaks from it creates a much less stressful work day.
No, I need specific examples of how the liberal agenda is curbing the rights of a church in a way that I should at all be concerned.
Its not curbing any rights. I don't think I said that but
I don't know why the church's leader (are we talking the pope?) being white & conservative has anything to do with what you're talking about. And frankly, I don't think the Pope is a conservative. He believes in the value of life, but that means he also opposes the death penalty and war. So, while he's against abortion, he has some pretty strong liberal notches on his belt. And forgive me, but he's like the Grand PooBah of Social Justice.
Yes. This is by design. First and foremost the Catholic church is a powerful political entity. They know its rapidly losing popularity in western culture due to contradicting views in the liberal agenda. They are also facing a rapid growth of Islam and the threat of modern science. They know they need to appeal to liberals and younger people, especially because younger people are so impressionable. The strength of the church is its members. They can't simply change their stance on some issues, but they can bend and try to bridge the gap with understanding and tolerance. That's Pope Francis. He's a pretty great guy.
I think I'm specifically telling you that that's not so. If you want to "debate" you're going to need to step up and start providing your views and reasons, and that means talking in specifics.
Okay. That is the disconnect here. You're well aware of the how the liberal agenda and the teachings of the church conflict. You've been on this forum at least, for a very long time. All of the topics are already here. I'm not interested in debating them at all. I made an item on a bullet point list, and somehow got asked again and again what it meant every time. That's why I believe you are baiting me. I wasn't trying to be "right" about anything.
I literally have no idea what you're talking about. Can you drop the analogies and cite some specifics about how the "progressive strategy" is working against "the faith"?
You need specific examples how the current liberal agenda doesn't suit the church?
Or how the church's white conservative male leader, views and teachings doesn't suit the current liberal agenda?
These are obvious well known things.
Maybe you don't see how a vote for Hillary is a vote for that current agenda.
Not Hillary Clinton specifically. That wasn't typed. A vote for that party is a vote for at least 4 if not 8 years of this current status quo regarding faith and society.
Which is what exactly? I'm sorry, if Hillary didn't represent that I'm at a loss for what you're complaining about government wise. Because there's been no assault on faith. If you feel like I'm jumping to conclusions maybe it's all this vague hand waving you're doing that I'm misinterpreting.
You got your ruling. Its not in danger of being undone. Further rants not needed.
It's not a rant, and it's not my ruling. It's the way government does and should operate. And, for all we know it could be in danger now that republicans are about to win control of the court again.
What do you not understand about that? Stop fixating on Hillary Clinton. Shes part of the current progression path. A vote for her, is voting for that progression path. In the last 10 years, it has been very evident that that progression path is working against the faith - not working with it. This isn't limited to one topic regarding gay marriage. And what I'm trying to tell you, is given that 70% of Americans ARE Christian or Catholic, working against them rather than with them will only push them farther right politically to protect themselves. I'm trying to tell you, that you will catch more bees with honey than vinegar, and more bees means more people supporting your progression plan, and in the end more chances of getting your candidate ELECTED to spearhead that progression plan. I am telling you, that this is is the very reason the POTUS's make efforts to visit the Pope - because they are smart enough to know who influences the bees. But the effort is not theirs alone. One person running for president is not enough to influence the bees. Since it has been nothing but vinegar in the current progression plan, the bees are moving to the right, because the right has always protected them. Do a quick study on how bees voted. If only you had more bees...
I used the removal of the tree, though one limited example, because that one strikes at the heart of everyone around it, and sends a message about our future in this progression plan. Winning such a victory - only in the name of separation of church and state - does not help them in the long run. It hurts them. Badly.
Now if you reply that bees can't vote... man I don't even know.
There was zero anti-religous rhetoric in Clinton's campaign. So, yeah, you're making **** up..
Not Hillary Clinton specifically. That wasn't typed. A vote for that party is a vote for at least 4 if not 8 years of this current status quo regarding faith and society. She would simply be the butt of that snake. I'm sure if elected, she'd head over to visit the Pope too. Business as usual.
I do not care if 70% of the country belongs to some kind of Church. I don't. And I have the freedom to make that choice and the government has no business kowtowing to people who want their religion legislated. If you want to believe in god: fine. If you want to believe that homosexuality is immoral: fine. If you want the government to enforce or respect those view points you can gtfo.
You got your ruling. Its not in danger of being undone. Further rants not needed.
You're side is not interested in dialogue. Only lambasting the other side and forcing your ideas on them. You never compromise and everything is in absolutes. Look at this thread - still at it eh
My side is not interested in fairy tales:
1. That you can cut taxes & increase government revenue at the same time
2. That building a wall will solve our problems
3. That evolution is not the way the world works
4. That global warming is just a "theory"
There's a world. It works in measurable, understandable ways. Science & Data allow us to determine what affect our actions have on the world. No amount of bloviating will change that. If you want to be a conservative within the bounds of how systems and the world works, then fine, we can hash it out and have a conversation. If you want to totally ignore all of that, then, yeah it's going to be hard for us to talk.
For 8 years republicans refused to do their jobs. To compromise to do anything. They took the ball and sat on it. And now we've handed the whole country over to them without any stop gaps. Whatever they do in the next 4 years is totally their own decision. They won't consult us. They won't compromise. Maybe it won't be that bad, but history suggests otherwise.
1. Deregulation between the 70s & 90s has caused measurable damage to our economy. And austerity now will do that again
2. 20 million people losing health care may spare a few from losing their businesses, but it'll cause way more to suffer in medical bankruptcy, and we'll return to an extreme path of medical debt
3. Breaking up children from their families will cause broken families and create more poverty
4. Doing nothing about global warming will destabilize ecosystems and drown our coastal cities. The xkcd comic shows just how uncharted this territory is. There's some truth that some adaptation will happen, but we're in the largest species die off since the last mass extinction and the acidification of the oceans is going to have real consequence. Opening up the remaining oil reserves might just making things worse (best case) or they might totally tip the scales on Armageddon.
5. Growing the wealth gap with regressive government policies will feel pretty good in the immediate, but this populist uprising isn't going away. We elected wolves and an alpha wolf to curb the wolves, and that's throwing bad after bad.
Also, if your argument is that this is a Christian country. I'm not interested because it's not.
If your argument is that Social Justice is awful, I'm not interested because Social Justice is just making sure everyone is treated equally under the law, a ******* normal endeavor totally in line with our values that was created by judeo-christian orthodoxy.
If I'd heard anything resembling a plan in the last 8 years instead of a bunch of moaning and grumbling then maybe I'd take the other side seriously. Instead, all I heard was that my pres was from Kenya, that I was trying to ruin America, and that human beings should be treated as less than. That this was a Christian country with a capital C and if I didn't like I could move the **** out. I heard, "Liberals can't get anything done" while the republicans held congress and refused to do anything other than investigate Benghazi 12 times and pass pointless Obamacare repeal after repeal. And then they degenerated into chanting "Lock Her Up!"
I'm sorry. Are you really claiming that you want to talk to me? Because I don't believe you.
Argue the same topics hammered over and over again with the same statements until somebody walks away? Voting worked much better.
That's a perfect example. You took a statement that said %70 of the country is christian/catholic, and implied that I'm arguing its "a christian country" a la that's our official declared religion or some similar notion. I also said nothing about climate change. That's just looking for topics to fight about. There's already years of that topic on MTGS regurgitated repeatedly.
So the actual point of that line was:
People cannot wage all out war on their core beliefs and then wonder why they won't align with them. %70 of the population is a staggering amount. Every POTUS since Kennedy has visited with the pope (Yes I know, Catholic vs Christian) because they realize just how important this political play is. Saying "Stronger Together" when its time to get elected, then gutting religion as part of the "2016 progress plan" isn't the way to win alignment.
The church is under a social assault - the more threatened they feel, the more right they will lean. Its simple self preservation. So in symbolism - it may be better to just drive past the tree and ignore it, than rally to have it taken down, effectively pissing off most of the town. Then after reminding them what this progress plan has in store for them, expecting them to vote toward that direction, while relying on their holiday to support the economy.
Note that I said people, and don't draw any implications outside of that please.
You're side is not interested in dialogue. Only lambasting the other side and forcing your ideas on them. You never compromise and everything is in absolutes. Look at this thread - still at it eh
I'm terrified and sick to my stomach. If you aren't, please consider helping those who are: if you believe in your candidate, now's the time to explain it kindly and firmly and heal the nation. If you'd prefer to cackle and celebrate misery, consider what in life made you this way and check if you are in fact a bad person.
The actual candidate is a wash. Obviously. But its so much more than that. Outside of an apparent all out internet hate for "white conservative catholic males". I'm reluctant to cast a vote for the very people trying to remove us from the equation. Hillary is also just another puppet master, from the elite inner circle protecting their interests and their investments. She wasn't "for" the American people. I'm not claiming that Trump IS the answer, or that he's "for" the American people either. But we know for certain the course we are on right now, and we know that course would continue.
- A mismatched President, house and senate doesn't actually get anything done.
- Protecting the town Christmas tree from the two rotten people who want to ruin it for the entire town
- Religion in general is being gutted, despite ~70% of the country being Christian/Catholic
(and thus waging war on %70 of the population is a stupid idea that doesn't get you votes)
- "Its 2016 already". Note the age of the church; its not disappearing. People will have to learn how to live alongside it.
- Loss of states rights, issues that WE voted on, legislation passed by people who don't even live here
- Strike for $15. If it happens, I want another $20 an hour.
- Sweeping legislation that completely ignores demographics. This isn't NY NY... our money scale is different.
- BLM vandalizing the walk of fame, their own neighborhoods, taking conventions over
- Slain cops. Sorry, I'm totally blue
- "I don't CARE if he had a gun" and "Not ONE more." Right - start following the law
- Table of 20 with a $550 bill leaving $5 to split among 3 servers. Then leave in Cadillacs. Because "America owe me."
- Special bathrooms for a fraction of a fraction of the population. We don't have more pressing things to worry about I guess
- This administrations unwillingness to send boots to defeat ISIS despite all military advisors current and former supporting it
- I happen to work for the military, and most people don't know how military spending cuts affect Americans. They think they do.
- Pulse night club. San Bernardino. People on the terrorist watch list can kill civilians on home soil
- No screening, background check or investigation on people coming into the country (see above)
- Small minded people thinking that a trillion dollars spent since Nixon is some huge amount of money
- ( $550 billion spent on Medicaid last year alone )
- "Not in our interest" to defeat the cartels. Our special forces could have it done in days. No pressure on Mexico either
- Legalization/decriminalization as an answer. The new notion is heroin and that can't happen
- Narcan free. So that heroin users can recover and and keep using heroin. Epi pen $600
- All of our industry is setting up foundries and moving the work to Mexico. They work for $2-3/hr. Tariffs not nearly high enough to discourage it
- "White no degree". That's racism. Its code word for backwater cajun, hillbilly corn farmer, white trailer trash put into acceptable words
- Millennials/GenZ who want top dollar pay for their first job, and a position where they can come and go as they feel like working.
- "Press 1 for English" Catering to the uneducated ( non-white no degree??)
I suspect everything on that list is already "well known". As far as cackling.... eh. Just looking at all the "never happen" posts in the other thread.
but that's quite an accomplishment for a man that is literally Hitler.
My family immigrated from Germany to escape the holocaust. People really shouldn't throw the name Hitler around so lightly. It carries more gravity than a person might realize. I'm not pretending to be offended, but thought you should know.
This also means I wasn't born into money and businesses, receiving some proverbial baton. I grew up relatively poor.
You all did? Who all? MTGS? A handful of debate posters who spend time pouring over the internet for data? Or literally everyone - including all white people - and all white people who rarely have to deal with race issues unless someone's in their face about it or rioting in a far away city? They all knew? Knew something more than a mob of people are busy destroying their own neighborhood and behaving terribly?
How about my original post - the one that you replied to acting like a bitter jerk, spouting about polls I never mentioned
Here's my points so you don't fabricate any:
-I believe social media, mainstream media, television and the internet do a very good job of silencing opinions they don't like
-This leads people to believe that everyone (the overwhelming majority) thinks the same - that everyone is on the same page
-If you drive out everyone potentially guilty of wrongthink, you've only tricked yourself
-I also believe (per another thread) that hitting people with the racist or bigot stick on every topic or repeatedly demonizing white people simply shuts down the conversation.
-In this very thread alone there's many negative comments demonizing white people - that's acceptable racism.
I suppose I tend to lump twitter in with MSN commentary - full of trolls protected by the internet. But an example to my thinking is say, your real face book account. If you posted half of the things he's been critisized for, you'd likely have real life consquences for it. People would de-friend you. People would flame you (hell, you can be mobbed for posting that you don't support oxycontin subs). Its not unthinkable to get a thousand negative comments or more for a socially unacceptable statement. Maybe ten thousand comments. You might have to shut down your face book. You could certainly get fired for it. If its bad enough, your post might even be on the front page of MSN, or on Ellen's show. This applies to the workplace, or even the bar. Nobody dares tell a racial joke or make a bigoted statement. When someone does, I'm thinking "Ummmm you can get fired for that..."
I do think this leads (some) people to believe that everyone in society (or at least everyone they know on FB, or at the office, or people around them) are on the same page. Then comes a man who says whatever he damn pleases (and has no experience in politics) and guess what... he won a presidential election. You really wouldn't think that possible, given you could be fired for the same statements he makes. You really wouldn't think there's THAT MANY out there either.
My reference to MTGS is because its not really that different. There's a long list of things (or views) you dare not express because you know exactly whats going to happen (say, immigration, abortion or... CLIMATE CHANGE ROFL!) Its either going to be the racist bat, the bigot stick or the dunce hat. And once anyone retaining the last of conservative views is gone, what's left? A group of people just nodding in agreement - like an echo chamber. How much is really achieved?
I think we are on two totally separate ideas. I am speaking of the shock and awe felt (around the world actually) that America actually elected a man like Trump despite him doing and saying things that are now socially unacceptable. I am speaking in regard to millions of posts quoting "What am I going to tell my daughter?" and "America really is racist". I am speaking of celebrities, talk show hosts and television anchors blatantly saying they are shocked we elected a "racist sexist xenophobic" president. Not just immediately following the election, but even as the states turned colors.
Its the revelation that many people either feel that way OR they don't see that as something that would discourage them from voting for him.
If you are selling the idea that the masses were ONLY shocked BECAUSE the poll data suggested otherwise, then you've got your head in the sand. Or you're just being flippant.
Why are you talking about polling data?
The shocking revelation that despite all the things he's said, the things he's done and the principles he campaigned on, a staggering amount of people voted for him (and enough in the right places to win an election.) The very IDEA that he'll be in the white house.
The echo chamber in social media is not smear articles and polling. Its people all nodding their head in agreement on (all of the issues involved) repeating the same views back to each other (echo... echo..) because they've stomped out the opposing view, thus lead to believe nobody like Trump could get elected. Because that's racist. And that's sexist. And that's xenophobic. And everyone cares about polar bears. Right? Right.
That is, the revelation.
Thank you. This man got it. I think.
I believe social media, mainstream media, television and the internet do a very good job of silencing opinions they don't like. This leads people to believe that everyone (the overwhelming majority) thinks the same - that everyone is on the same page. On the night of the election, you could see just how shocked every news anchor (and comedians like Trevor Noah) were. I think the same of this forum - if you drive out everyone potentially guilty of wrongthink, you've only tricked yourself. I also believe (per another thread) that hitting people with the racist or bigot stick on every topic or repeatedly demonizing white people simply shuts down the conversation. In this very thread alone there's many negative comments demonizing white people - that's acceptable racism.
I never knew the word for this until recent events: echo chamber.
That was the best part of the whole election - the revelation of many.
I live in Ohio. Voting requires a form of identification (commonly drivers license or state ID, though utility bill and other things are accepted) Its never taken me more than 15 minutes to vote. Every adult should have BC, SS and valid ID. Figure out the system. Its damn hard to do anything at the BMV without these. At least two of them are no charge. God forbid you get a suspension for not having it - asking friends to drive you out of county to an office that can reinstate it is a huge hassle and can come with a lot of fines. Don't cry about the $25 or having to wait at the SS office with old people who occupy the sole teller for 3 hours. We all have to do it. Figure out the system. And while I'm on the soap box - pay the credit card balance off every month, keep at least 2 months pay in a savings account, don't buy ***** you can't afford, cigarettes (and weed) are bad for your lungs and a huge waste of money.
Amen.
That is a completely different scenario compared to decades of war and oppression driving people into desperation and thus joining a bad cause and committing acts of terror.
When Ohio State wins against Michigan, they tip over cars.
When Ohio state loses to Michigan, they tip over cars.
When Obama won the election in 2008 there was a rise in hate crimes following, according to the SPLC
Trump did bad thing
Trump losing polls
Five reasons Trump won't win
Trump meet with these other people - that's bad.
Trumps plans for trade agree ment - that's bad.
How Trump's plan can hurt insurance companies
How Trump's plan can hurt minorities.
Five more reasons Trump won't win.
Trump other tweet bad.
How Trump's plan is just... bad. (if there was one, lol)
Trump apoint person - that's bad
TRUMP WENT TO DINNER AND DIDN'T TELL US. THAT IS BAD
AND HE WON
This is still occuring almost... twice thrice a day now on the front page of MSN? We're almost at the point where the media is working hard to FIND things to keep it going. Like they are clearly, obviously out to get em.
And every time the crap storm in the other thread is renewed, as the crap circles the internet.
You are asking to review over a years worth of news, post how they portray said bias, and then also prove or disprove whether they are wrong. Being the debate forum, that is understandable. But must he really do that to convey this same idea?
Its not limited to Trump.
How many articles have I read in the past few years "the suspect was black, and the officer was white." You will never, ever read "suspect was white and the officer was black." or "the suspect was black and the officer was black." They simply don't post the race of people involved otherwise. I firmly believe the AP actually contributes to racial tensions in America by doing this.
However all that said, @Typhoon don't always view this as "liberal bias". Think about it - if you were in charge of a news outlet your goal would be to attain as many clicks, reads and shares as possible. Whats currently trending and what do people tend to click on? DRAMA. ANGER. SHOCKING NEWS. CONTROVERSY.
Edit: And remember, they did the same thing to Obama around the clock (especially regarding national deficit and obamacare), and would always find a photo of him mid-syllable, so that he looked as sad and pathetic as possible.
And that's what they feed people. TBH, taking breaks from it creates a much less stressful work day.
Yes. This is by design. First and foremost the Catholic church is a powerful political entity. They know its rapidly losing popularity in western culture due to contradicting views in the liberal agenda. They are also facing a rapid growth of Islam and the threat of modern science. They know they need to appeal to liberals and younger people, especially because younger people are so impressionable. The strength of the church is its members. They can't simply change their stance on some issues, but they can bend and try to bridge the gap with understanding and tolerance. That's Pope Francis. He's a pretty great guy.
Okay. That is the disconnect here. You're well aware of the how the liberal agenda and the teachings of the church conflict. You've been on this forum at least, for a very long time. All of the topics are already here. I'm not interested in debating them at all. I made an item on a bullet point list, and somehow got asked again and again what it meant every time. That's why I believe you are baiting me. I wasn't trying to be "right" about anything.
Favour isn't the best word, but if this is serious question about "healing", I'm interested
You need specific examples how the current liberal agenda doesn't suit the church?
Or how the church's white conservative male leader, views and teachings doesn't suit the current liberal agenda?
These are obvious well known things.
Maybe you don't see how a vote for Hillary is a vote for that current agenda.
Maybe you're just baiting me.
What do you not understand about that? Stop fixating on Hillary Clinton. Shes part of the current progression path. A vote for her, is voting for that progression path. In the last 10 years, it has been very evident that that progression path is working against the faith - not working with it. This isn't limited to one topic regarding gay marriage. And what I'm trying to tell you, is given that 70% of Americans ARE Christian or Catholic, working against them rather than with them will only push them farther right politically to protect themselves. I'm trying to tell you, that you will catch more bees with honey than vinegar, and more bees means more people supporting your progression plan, and in the end more chances of getting your candidate ELECTED to spearhead that progression plan. I am telling you, that this is is the very reason the POTUS's make efforts to visit the Pope - because they are smart enough to know who influences the bees. But the effort is not theirs alone. One person running for president is not enough to influence the bees. Since it has been nothing but vinegar in the current progression plan, the bees are moving to the right, because the right has always protected them. Do a quick study on how bees voted. If only you had more bees...
I used the removal of the tree, though one limited example, because that one strikes at the heart of everyone around it, and sends a message about our future in this progression plan. Winning such a victory - only in the name of separation of church and state - does not help them in the long run. It hurts them. Badly.
Now if you reply that bees can't vote... man I don't even know.
Not Hillary Clinton specifically. That wasn't typed. A vote for that party is a vote for at least 4 if not 8 years of this current status quo regarding faith and society. She would simply be the butt of that snake. I'm sure if elected, she'd head over to visit the Pope too. Business as usual.
You got your ruling. Its not in danger of being undone. Further rants not needed.
Argue the same topics hammered over and over again with the same statements until somebody walks away? Voting worked much better.
That's a perfect example. You took a statement that said %70 of the country is christian/catholic, and implied that I'm arguing its "a christian country" a la that's our official declared religion or some similar notion. I also said nothing about climate change. That's just looking for topics to fight about. There's already years of that topic on MTGS regurgitated repeatedly.
So the actual point of that line was:
People cannot wage all out war on their core beliefs and then wonder why they won't align with them. %70 of the population is a staggering amount. Every POTUS since Kennedy has visited with the pope (Yes I know, Catholic vs Christian) because they realize just how important this political play is. Saying "Stronger Together" when its time to get elected, then gutting religion as part of the "2016 progress plan" isn't the way to win alignment.
The church is under a social assault - the more threatened they feel, the more right they will lean. Its simple self preservation. So in symbolism - it may be better to just drive past the tree and ignore it, than rally to have it taken down, effectively pissing off most of the town. Then after reminding them what this progress plan has in store for them, expecting them to vote toward that direction, while relying on their holiday to support the economy.
Note that I said people, and don't draw any implications outside of that please.
You're side is not interested in dialogue. Only lambasting the other side and forcing your ideas on them. You never compromise and everything is in absolutes. Look at this thread - still at it eh
The actual candidate is a wash. Obviously. But its so much more than that. Outside of an apparent all out internet hate for "white conservative catholic males". I'm reluctant to cast a vote for the very people trying to remove us from the equation. Hillary is also just another puppet master, from the elite inner circle protecting their interests and their investments. She wasn't "for" the American people. I'm not claiming that Trump IS the answer, or that he's "for" the American people either. But we know for certain the course we are on right now, and we know that course would continue.
- A mismatched President, house and senate doesn't actually get anything done.
- Protecting the town Christmas tree from the two rotten people who want to ruin it for the entire town
- Religion in general is being gutted, despite ~70% of the country being Christian/Catholic
(and thus waging war on %70 of the population is a stupid idea that doesn't get you votes)
- "Its 2016 already". Note the age of the church; its not disappearing. People will have to learn how to live alongside it.
- Loss of states rights, issues that WE voted on, legislation passed by people who don't even live here
- Strike for $15. If it happens, I want another $20 an hour.
- Sweeping legislation that completely ignores demographics. This isn't NY NY... our money scale is different.
- BLM vandalizing the walk of fame, their own neighborhoods, taking conventions over
- Slain cops. Sorry, I'm totally blue
- "I don't CARE if he had a gun" and "Not ONE more." Right - start following the law
- Table of 20 with a $550 bill leaving $5 to split among 3 servers. Then leave in Cadillacs. Because "America owe me."
- Special bathrooms for a fraction of a fraction of the population. We don't have more pressing things to worry about I guess
- This administrations unwillingness to send boots to defeat ISIS despite all military advisors current and former supporting it
- I happen to work for the military, and most people don't know how military spending cuts affect Americans. They think they do.
- Pulse night club. San Bernardino. People on the terrorist watch list can kill civilians on home soil
- No screening, background check or investigation on people coming into the country (see above)
- Small minded people thinking that a trillion dollars spent since Nixon is some huge amount of money
- ( $550 billion spent on Medicaid last year alone )
- "Not in our interest" to defeat the cartels. Our special forces could have it done in days. No pressure on Mexico either
- Legalization/decriminalization as an answer. The new notion is heroin and that can't happen
- Narcan free. So that heroin users can recover and and keep using heroin. Epi pen $600
- All of our industry is setting up foundries and moving the work to Mexico. They work for $2-3/hr. Tariffs not nearly high enough to discourage it
- "White no degree". That's racism. Its code word for backwater cajun, hillbilly corn farmer, white trailer trash put into acceptable words
- Millennials/GenZ who want top dollar pay for their first job, and a position where they can come and go as they feel like working.
- "Press 1 for English" Catering to the uneducated ( non-white no degree??)
My family immigrated from Germany to escape the holocaust. People really shouldn't throw the name Hitler around so lightly. It carries more gravity than a person might realize. I'm not pretending to be offended, but thought you should know.
This also means I wasn't born into money and businesses, receiving some proverbial baton. I grew up relatively poor.