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  • posted a message on [Primer] UW Tron
    Modern Horizons spoilers are done so here's some cards we would be interested in:

    Flusterstorm is the best Storm answer around if what you want to do is counter them going off. I feel like that's probably wrong in Modern. Flusterstorm is a Legacy staple because Storm tends to go off much earlier and with less of a guarantee. In Modern when you're playing ways to just infinitely chain stuff like with Pyromancer's Ascension or Baral/Electromancer, this card loses effectiveness. An opponent realistically could just go off again. That being said, Flusterstorm is still an okay answer in some other matchups so there's a bit of a trade off. I would guess people won't play Flusterstorm but it's worth keeping in mind.

    Winds of Abandon seems pretty cool. It's very similar to Settle the Wreckage with some minor differences. For one, your opponent doesn't have to attack so you can clear off some other stuff. Secondly you can cast it for two mana so it's not dead if you don't have the mana. I think it might be better than a sideboard Settle the Wreckage.

    Rebuild is much like Hurkyl's Recall except it costs one more and can cycle. I think it's bad because if you're boarding in Hurkyl's Recall then you don't have any reason to cycle it. Against a deck like Affinity this card is so powerful that you'd be fine just casting it 10/10 times.

    Not sure what I would want to fetch with this but any card that says search your library for an artifact seems like there's potential. Not something I'm excited about but something that I'd keep in the back of my mind.

    Prohibit doesn't seem amazing but who knows. There are plenty of decks where this is just Counterspell and the fact that it scales a bit is nice. I'm guessing that if you run the numbers it won't make sense, but counters with unique conditions at reasonable prices are, like Tribute Mage, things to take a look at.

    I think generally MH doesn't add much for this deck. If anything I'd be more excited about people trying new decks and your ability to play this into a generic field knowing we have a great average matchup and game against basically anything.
    Posted in: Control
  • posted a message on "What Deck Should I Play" thread
    I think UR Phoenix is supposed to beat GDS. It crushed them in the top 8 match I watched on SCG earlier. GDS tends to not have a lot of ways to push through damage unlike Phoenix.
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on [Primer] UW Tron
    Quote from pegaso5 »
    Why are some people playing 3 Urza's Mine and 3 Urza's Power plant?
    One of the bigger problems with the deck is colour consistency. When you play 12 lands that produce no colour and then try to cast spells like Wrath of God or Supreme Verdict, it's pretty difficult to cast. We play Signets to try to offset it, but we're still not playing anywhere near enough for it to be consistent on turn 4. So the thought process became: let's play higher coloured sources (and cut Tron lands as a result). At first it seems really bad, but you realize that you sometimes care more about consistency on early game than you do getting to mid/late. The tradeoff is really that you're getting Tron online later. I find it's often a meta decision as to whether you think early game matters more. If decks like Jund and Jeskai are good, then you want to be playing more Tron lands, otherwise fewer is probably okay.
    Posted in: Control
  • posted a message on Your most favorite unban in Modern and why?
    I had to pick Valakut because it's the only card that had enough of an impact on the format.

    Sword, Nacatl, Ancestral, and Bitterblossom all did absolutely nothing. Sword, Ancestral, and Bitterblossom all started on the banlist because they were scared from other formats. Nacatl got on there after they had one tournament with Zoo painfully dominant while nobody prepped Modern, and the offender (Punishing Fire) got banned at the same time. All of these cards came off and did absolutely nothing.

    Jace and BBE both came off to revitalize archetypes, but haven't had a significant enough long-term impact. Jace just isn't seeing the play some people thought (it was never going to break the format), and sees play in some UWx control builds typically alongside Teferi. Recently Jund players have gone over to BG anyway, so they're perfectly fine without BBE. Both of them are fine cards seeing regular play, but not altering the landscape of the format in any significant way.

    Valakut creates archetypes, and whether they're tier 1 or not, they're still recognizable decks that people respect. And to top that, Valakut has basically always been in something since it's been around, whether it's RUG Scapeshift, RG Scapeshift, or Titanshift. It's also a fairly different archetype than a lot of other things so it adds another dimension to the format.
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on What's the purpose of not having perfect mana without any downside
    The whole point is to balance the game in a risk vs reward fashion. So take the most extreme scenario, that all your lands tap for any colour (or colourless) and come into play untapped with no drawback. That is, each land can be used to cast any card in your deck. What deck becomes the best deck in the format? Probably some 5 colour monstrosity that just plays the best parts of every colour. Maybe it's something like those 5c Tribal Flames decks we saw a few years ago at the World Championships. Maybe it turns out some deck shores up all their weaknesses by having access to answers in a colour they're not playing. Almost for sure though, you end up playing 5 colour decks because why not.

    With imperfect mana, you have to make tradeoffs for your cards. If you want to splash a colour, it hurts you consistency or your life. There are meaningful consequences, and there's meant to be meaningful consequences. Take, for example, GB decks before we got Fatal Push. Often, they would play red or white because they just couldn't deal with the fact they had bad removal. They'd play cards like Victim of Night because they had to, not because they thought it was good. You'd splash white because white just happened to have Path, or a card like Lingering Souls.

    What happens when decks just start splashing answers to problematic situations? Let me just splash some life gain. Blue deck having trouble with creatures? Let me just play Path because it's free.
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on "What Deck Should I Play" thread
    What reason do you have for him to not play Tron? It's still a good deck and putting up some results. Modern is a format where familiarity is rewarded. I don't doubt your friend can play other decks, it's quite common for entrenched players to play several decks fairly well, or be able to pick up similar decks easily. That being said, there just doesn't appear to be a significant benefit to swapping decks. Assuming your friend isn't breaking the meta, he's only gaining a couple percentage picking the optimal deck and then losing it to familiarity anyway. Especially if he's doing well with Tron, I say just let him play it.
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on Jund
    This kind of makes it sound like 24 isn't the worst, but that 25 is probably ideal. Like unless you're predicting the meta and knowing whether your games are going to be short, the difference isn't much. With an extra 3% to flood, you're only looking at a 1.5% net difference, which is pretty minimal. I don't think most of us are trying that hard to predict the meta, I'm mostly playing at small local events that vary a lot in terms of the meta.

    DRS is kind of an interesting mana dork because it's only sometimes a mana dork. You need fetches you don't always have, but also you used the other modes as well in ways that made it not strictly a Birds or something. That was the format where we had tons of speedy decks like Affinity and Storm (before the ban of Seething Song), but also slow decks like Birthing Pod (where they would cut combo vs BGx).

    It's worth noting the 25th land being a manland makes it not as bad for flooding, because it's basically a creature and not useless.
    Posted in: Midrange
  • posted a message on Jund
    You can't consider those numbers in isolation though. Sure, there's a 4.5% or so difference in the probability of hitting the 5th land (I'm going to assume you mean 5th land on turn 5), but that doesn't paint the entire picture. You also now have a higher chance of flooding out, the mulligan rate might change, etc. Considering it in isolation sort of suggests that it's extremely important, which I'm not convinced it is.

    It's also worth pointing out some people definitely played 24 in Jund lists back when we had BBE and DRS. Yuuya top 8'd PT RTR with 4 4-drops and 7 3-drops playing 24 lands. Ochoa had the same configuration with 24, Willy Edel had 25 but had a slightly higher curve which included a 5th 4-drop in the main. I don't have any stats to properly back it up, I just went to some coverage data where I knew I could find some BBEs in Jund.
    Posted in: Midrange
  • posted a message on Jund
    Curious if you have the statistics to support this (akin to what Frank Karsten has). I played a list last night with 4 BBE and 7 3-drops and found 24 lands was fine. Sure, small sample size, but I've pretty much always played 24 in Jund since BBE got unbanned and not really had any trouble. I'm pretty curious if the math supports it.
    Posted in: Midrange
  • posted a message on [Primer] UW Tron
    It's been a bit since I've chimed in here, haven't taken the deck out in a while. I've got like half the format built now, maybe more, and I've been playing less Magic lately. But I'll put a few comments

    GRN unsurprisingly had nothing for us. Without gold cards in UW there wasn't really going to be anything. Maybe in the next set, but I never have high hopes for sets.

    Teferi is actually quite good, been playing him in Jeskai Control. Being able to untap lands is much better than it sounds, especially when we might be able to untap 4 mana to EOT Gifts. I think Teferi is probably better in Jeskai because more interaction means more chances to keep him alive. Still, I think he does have some potential and I'd certainly play one copy until I was certain he wasn't good.

    Mindslaver seems particularly bad right now because graveyard strategies are back. Storm is good again and Dredge has been putting up some impressive results since Creeping Chill got printed. So I'd be weary of dipping too far into the graveyard strategy. With people playing cards like Surgical, Cage, Relic, Leyline of the Void, Spellbomb, all of it's bad for that. Cut the combo, free up slots.
    Posted in: Control
  • posted a message on [Primer] UW Tron
    New set, new set discussion:

    I think this is a pretty niche card, but I think it has some small amount of potential in the sideboard. Modern has a surprising number of 1 CMC cards, especially things you normally can't interact with like Aether Vial and Map. I would need to do a full breakdown of the format to see if this is worth playing, but my inclination is that it's worth considering.

    The first ability isn't fantastic, it just sort of slows down your opponent a little bit. Good against Burn or BGx types of decks with Thoughtseize and Liliana. But what I'm more concerned about is the secondary effect. Neutering tokens can be good, and I've played cards in other decks that do it. I'm not saying this is a slam dunk of a card, but in the right environment, this card might appear in a sideboard.

    Particularly good against Collected Company decks. The fact it costs 1 means you can fit it on the board at any time, and since those decks are typically very light on removal, you don't care that much. Merfolk would probably like this card for sideboards, us probably not as much. Even still, I could see CoCo going on a rise and wanting to play this. There's a similar creature that I'm not remembering, a white flier from a couple years back. I haven't ever wanted to play that, but I'm not sure if 1cmc changes my opinion.

    This is definitely the highlight card of the set. Basically paying 1 more for a modal wrath that offers the ability to kill artifacts/enchantments on the second mode. My gut reaction is to not want to play this in the main, but sideboard one copy.

    With this card, you're effectively asking whether slowing wrath by a turn is made up for the fact that in some cases, it does what wrath cannot. Instinctively, Wrath often needs to be cast as soon as you can. I have lost games where if I had cast wrath a turn earlier, I would have been fine. Turn 5 on the draw seems really slow, and I feel like I want to have the 4cmc wrath effects main. I do like the idea of this in the sideboard. I like more expensive wraths there, especially since you can optionally board it in when you see an opponent with a deck where the second mode is good.

    I think there just aren't enough decks where this is good enough. It's fine against Lantern, KCI, Bogles, Affinity (though regular wrath is fine). These decks just aren't popular enough to support this card the way some people might think. Sometimes it will be good, but on average, it will probably just be a slightly worse wrath.
    Posted in: Control
  • posted a message on [Primer] UW Tron
    Sometimes creatures are better than draw spells. The 2/1 body isn't appealing though. Like Wall of Omens is good sometimes because it blocks a lot of things, but Champion is only sometimes trading. It can probably trade a good amount, but like I said, it's also giving your opponent an outlet to use otherwise dead removal spells.

    I also don't think Haven is that important. It's not the worst card I've ever seen or tested, but it's fine. I don't tend to need a second Ugin though, I can't tell you the last time I had to trade it. Now, I also don't know if I've gotten into situations where I've taken alternative lines because it would die. I would guess probably never. It's just almost always wrathing the board and then it's hard for opponents to come back. Even if it dies, killing everything is typically good enough to stabilize.

    I may play the deck again sometime soon, but not enough to test Champion and make a decision about it. I took UWR for a spin last time.
    Posted in: Control
  • posted a message on [Primer] UW Tron
    I haven't played the deck recently. As much as I love it, now that I have money to afford other decks, I've been playing a lot of stuff. As you can see from my sig I'm playing like basically everything now.
    Posted in: Control
  • posted a message on [Primer] UW Tron
    I agree the deck seems a little top heavy. It just has so many late game cards and I think it might have one or two too many. He shaved on Signets and Maps, plus went to the 10 Tron count to afford the manabase. Honestly, not sure how clunky it is, because Maps and Signets themselves are often as clunky.

    Champion of Wits is really the only interesting card. I'm still not sure what I think about it, but it doesn't seem like the worst idea I've ever seen. The merit of it blocking has potential to offset the extra card. It is a bit awkward that you're trading card advantage for a small creature on board. On one hand, it does block, but it also does give your opponent opportunities to use otherwise dead removal spells. Eternalize is a nice mechanic though. I'm not convinced it is better, but it could end up like Wall of Omens, where it's better than Remand in some metas because it blocks. My gut tells me that the small size on this doesn't make it enough better than Thirst, but I've been wrong before.

    I have warmed up a lot to Teferi having played with it/against it in various formats. The card untapping lands makes it so easy to play on 5 and leave up Remand / Path.
    Posted in: Control
  • posted a message on "What Deck Should I Play" thread
    • Surprisingly resilient since you can play out of your hand as well. Also good at dodging counters thanks to Splice.
    • Speed seems fine, depending on the build you can win before turn 4. I think you're generally trying to win around turn 4 and hoping to do better.
    • Deck's real easy for a combo deck. You just get your dude into play and then the rest is pretty much always the same.
    • Positioning seems mediocre. I think grave hate is around as much as ever, and Thoughtseize is much harder to deal with than Mana Leak is.

    UR Storm:
    • Storm isn't super resilient, it can fold to a lot of things really easily. I've seen sideboard Pyromancer's Ascension that can help fight Thoughtseize / Grafdigger's Cage, but Leyline of the Void or RIP are pretty hard to answer.
    • Usually a turn 4 deck, sometimes turn 3 if your turn 2 lord lives. Sometimes the games do go longer but that typically favours you since you can sculpt your hand with all the cantrips and reuse your graveyard.
    • It's pretty difficult to play well, but I don't think it takes as many reps as people think. You just need to be really good at doing quick math on how your mana works. It's just always a matter of calculating how much mana you can produce and how much you actually need. The math tends to be pretty easy against non-blue decks.
    • Storm seems meh. It's bad against Jund and that's the new hotness still.

    • Quite resilient actually, since your threats find more threats or answers to removal. Playing Titan and being able to grab another Pact is good, and because you get ahead on lands/cards you still maintain enough value when it dies.
    • Speed varies but it's usually not that fast. I don't have as much experience with recent builds since I played it before the Bloom ban a ton. It's on the slower side of this list for sure though, especially since you don't win immediately most of the time.
    • Complexity is high but it's mostly about learning a few set lines and being able to derive things. For example, you learn how to double up on Amulet triggers and dome them for 20 with a Titan, or to fetch Simic Growth Chamber + Tolaria West and Transmute it. Once you learn the few lines you need, you can reason through a lot of things without too much difficulty. I find it's the kind of deck you play awful at the beginning, can learn to play quite well pretty fast, but the last few points are hard to get.
    • Well positioned depending on how Damping Sphere turns out. That card will suck for Amulet players for sure.

    • Resiliency I'm not too sure about. The deck needs a lot of stuff in order to go off, but it also has a hard time with graveyard interaction due to its reliance on Scrap Trawler.
    • Speed seems reasonably fast depending on the amount of interaction. A lot of decks aren't equipped to interact with it so you get to just do whatever you want a lot of the time.
    • Probably the hardest deck on the list to play. The cycles are non-obvious as are the rule interactions. You have to keep doing a lot of math to make sure you're going off properly. In most cases that's irrelevant, but sometimes you have to know if you can wait or not, and that's difficult to tell.
    • Positioning seems really good. There just isn't enough hate for this type of deck.
    Posted in: Modern
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