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  • posted a message on [[Official]] What [deck] should I play/buy/get into thread
    @Figurative, I'm not sure how one could respond. Try out some decks and choose the one you like, life's too short (and Legacy too expensive) to fool around with things that aren't fun. I personally found all of the Aether Vial family of decks to be quite great, though I've since moved on to casting Brainstorm.

    Regarding the options you mentioned, DnT is probably the most competitive.

    @motleyslayer, Pox is an OK deck to get started with in Legacy if you like that sort of thing. The deck is iconic and instructive in its structure. Although very strong against tempo, it has a few trouble spots in the average metagame (Vial decks, Burn, and hard control like Miracles). The other difficulty is that it can be hard to leverage the cards in Pox into other archetypes. Liliana is played in Shardless, Jund, and a few fringe decks. Sinkhole is played almost nowhere else. The deck is definitely playable without Tabernacle and probably without land destruction. Liliana is a totally boss card, but I wonder when she'll see a reprint. I'd hesitate to shell out for her myself, but that's what I say about every card.

    Posted in: Legacy (Type 1.5)
  • posted a message on Burn
    Quote from nhan »
    I think another weakness of LotV that is being over looked is the decks you bring it in against still have answers in the form of one mana bounce spells such as chain of vapor.
    Macabre has my vote for grave hate, burn has a great clock already, and Macabre makes them stumble enough to give us a chance.


    For the record, this weakness was not overlooked. I was the proponent of the card, and came to advocate it on the basis of a detailed database search of top 32 finishing Reanimator and Dredge decks. The analysis at the time indicated that a remarkably low percentage of those decks were playing Chain of Vapor, Nature's Claim, and other things that could kill the Leyline. The card was recommended on the basis of this fact, in addition to its general strength in other matchups such as Lands.

    It was a long time ago that the analysis was made, however, and there may have been errors of one kind of another in its execution. I suggest anyone considering the question of gravehate to consider their own metagame, as well as the databases available, to come to an informed decision. Myself, I'm playing Reanimator, with no answer to Leyline either.
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • posted a message on [Deck] UW(x) Stoneblade
    Yeah, that's the build that was kicking around at the time. A few other folks managed to place or otherwise do well with it at the time, but what can I say... it failed me today. There were numerous (occasionally egregious) punts in there, and I maintain that it was rather unlikely for that Miracles player to find all those weird CMCs. It might be wrong to blame the deck entirely, and in fact I think it plays precisely to my weakness as a player. When I'm ahead, especially when I'm up in cards, I tend to get sloppy.

    On the plus side, the collection is on the table and the mat is all rolled out, time to find a sweet new list to play with! Perhaps I'll try yours. I think I have all the cardboard needed for this...
    Posted in: Midrange
  • posted a message on [Deck] UW(x) Stoneblade
    RIP and Needle are great against Lands, but both of these can eat a K-grip and open the floodgates. You've got Snapcaster Mage already though, so why not just switch up the graveyard hate to Surgical Extraction? That's usually pretty good against Loam decks.

    RIP is an amazing card, but it also messes with your own deck.

    ...EDIT...

    Well, it looked good on paper, and I recall it testing well awhile ago... but in practice, the Shardless Bant list I tried really just could not win a match. Partly this was due to my own play errors and inexperience with the deck, but I've picked up new decks plenty of times before with a lot more success than this. Here's what happened over the three rounds before I dropped to eat dinner.

    Round 1: Junk planeswalkers
    I was working on this guy's list last week, and the Esperblade list I had been using at the time was working very smoothly against it. This week I only managed to take game 1, which went beautifully. He played Humility and started spawning tokens, but Shardless found my Thopter Foundry. Jace and Ensnaring Bridge took over. Game 2 he got me with a Choke, and I hadn't sided in my Seal of Primordium. Vindicate on my Savannah left me without mana to use the Detention Sphere rotting in my hand. Game 3 went to turns, and I was sure that the draw was secured until his last card (an Abrupt Decay) abruptly ate my Ensnaring Bridge.

    Round 2: Infect
    A bad keep hastened my defeat in game 2, but there seemed to be little I could do against this strategy.

    Round 3: Miracles
    Finally the matchup I'd been waiting for! Though I figured my chances at top 8 were nonexistent at this point, being paired against a 0-2 Miracles player sounded like great fun. I had a great hand game 1, with an early recursive Engineered Explosives against his Countertop, but he just kept on finding the weird 3s, 4s, and 5s, I kept throwing at him. He managed to deal with a few of my creatures and continued ticking up Jace until it was too late. Game 2 I forgot about Blood Moon, and got caught with my pants down.

    Bonus Round: Death and Taxes
    A friend of mine, assured for the top 8 himself, demonstrated the frailty of the deck's high-CMC-supporting manabase in the face of Rishadan Port, the ability of Mirran Crusader to swing straight through Shardless Agent, and the frailty of Thopter Sword combo when faced with Phyrexian Revoker.

    We talked a bit about how some acceleration and/or a heavier defense like Moat might improve the deck, but I think it's time for me to cut my losses and move on. I'd gotten quite used to winning during the DTT era, placing at most events I entered with either BURG, Grixis Delver, Miracles, or Esper Blade. I think I'll return to that last one.
    Posted in: Midrange
  • posted a message on [Deck] UW(x) Stoneblade
    I certainly agree with you on the manabase, this isn't one of those decks that can just play any blue fetchland and call it a day. Doing so would remove the deck's modest resilience to Wasteland and Blood Moon and make the prospect of building up to big 3+ mana plays untenable. It would be better to play Deathblade, accept the complex manabase, and hedge with Deathrite Shaman.

    I'd play Deathblade with the deep green myself if there weren't such a large population of steady Blood Moon and DnT players in every local tournament.

    One thing I've been wondering is how much sense it really makes for us to continue playing Stoneforge Mystic. I mean, I'm sort of stuck with it because Shardless Agent won't cast free Monastery Mentors, but everyone paying fair mana for these spells might do well to consider the monk tokens. I was having a hoot of a time with the bladeless Esper Mentor in the waning days of Dig Through Time, and I'd just switch the DTTs straight out if I didn't have this green build burning a hole in my pocket. Switching from Stoneforge to Mentor opens up useful design space. The package is smaller, for one thing, once the artifacts are gone. That means more of whatever component you think is most important, whether it be spot removal, discard, or sweepers. Even just some Baleful Strix cards go very well with these. In the sideboard, Null Rod and Stony Silence finally become options, and those cards are really devastating.

    A mirror match, for one thing, against "bladeless Blade" is harsh indeed, they've got these extra discard spells to fight the equipment in addition to Stony Silence.

    In your particular list, ltj999, are you sure you aren't a little too long on green mana? Tropical Island, Bayou, and Savannah together are a big commitment to the color, even with MD Abrupt Decays and Sylvan Library in the board. I wonder if there might not be some use of Life from the Loam possible here. The spell could live in the board, maybe switching -1 Creeping Tar Pit +1 Wasteland, and come in when you anticipate a fight over your mana sources.

    Personally, I've never really liked SoFnF as an anti-combo sword. It's just so slow that I don't feel it gets the job done, and its only real duty is to allow me to keep my Mystics in the main. However, including the Mystics, you've got about 13 cards that can conceivably come out against combo: 6 Mystic and targets, 2 TNNs, 2 Decays, 1 Souls, 3 StP. There are already 10 cards in the board that could come in, so I think you can actually get by without Feast and Famine.

    Finally, I think Meddling Mage deserves some attention, possibly even over the 4th Force of Will and 4th Thoughtseize (which could be a Therapy or Duress). You're already pretty strong on counter-based and discard-based disruption, adding some more hatebears to the mix will make it a nightmare to play combo against this thing.
    Posted in: Midrange
  • posted a message on [Deck] UW(x) Stoneblade
    Mother of Runes is great, but look at the creatures you're protecting. You could simply play more TNNs, and all of those issues you mentioned would be taken care of automatically.

    It's a little tough to play those high CMC cards, including the walkers, and use Wasteland at the same time. I rarely run Jace together with that stuff.
    Posted in: Midrange
  • posted a message on Legacy Lantern Control?
    Yeah, Stasis might well be a thing within a month... I think if it's not a thing by then, it never will be.

    Lantern will never really work in Legacy, and I think the reason is mostly #2 above. Modern, as a format, has been strictly limited in terms of cantrips and card selection. In Legacy, these beasts are uncaged and bearing ferocious teeth. In Modern, how hard is it to shut down a deck using Serum Visions by means of Lantern and friends? Clearly plausible, right? But against the cantrip cartel, this is bringing a knife to a gun fight. Then, we have the tutors.

    I'd love to have a new deck in Legacy expanding the strategic diversity of the format, but I think this pretty obviously isn't going to be one of them. I predict the following. Some folks take this Lantern idea to a Legacy event, win a few matches on surprise value, but on the whole get crushed because a lot of decks don't rely on their draw step very much at all. Remember how annoying it was to pilot Maverick and shuffle your deck 1-3 times each turn, round after round, for a whole day?
    Posted in: Developing (Legacy)
  • posted a message on [Deck] UW(x) Stoneblade
    If you could be a little more specific about the location, it might be of help. There's remarkable diversity in the metagames of the northeastern United States. I could tell you what to expect in Massachusetts but pretty much nothing else.

    The thing that stands out to me about the list you posted is a paucity of answers suitable against Miracles. Equipment is good, but there are only two walkers to back it up. Mother of Runes and Lightning Bolt aren't where you want to be against Terminus, and the Stony Silence in the board awkwardly conflicts with what would otherwise be a great plan, more equipment.

    I think Engineered Explosives could be considered. It can clean out Chalice of the Void and resists Counterbalance, has value against Elves, and can do similar work against DnT. The only problem is that some of your own permanents are going to get hit by it, and it's particularly unfortunate to lose a Mother of Runes. You might cut the Moms for more spells, like Ponder... but I'm not sure. This is a Stifle/Wasteland list, which goes in the opposite direction of the way I like my own Blade decks. I generally make them very controlling and cut the tempo cards.

    ...

    EDIT: This is the pile I'm pushing these days.



    I'm sure it looks unusual, and it may not even belong in this thread. Despite the presence of Shardless Agent, however, I think this deck plays out strategically closer to the Stoneblade family than the black-heavy Shardless lists. There, Agent provides a source of card advantage that offsets Hymn to Tourach's natural tendencies. Here, Agent is a free (cardwise) recursive equipment carrier. The deck seeks out a slice of inevitability somewhere between Miracles and 12-Post. Thus while it will almost never beat Post, games against Miracles are occasions to celebrate. It's such fun to see them build up, cast whatever blasts they've got, and empty their hand before I rebuild my position via Academy Ruins and demonstrate the nullity of all that value. This is one of the few Stoneblade builds I've seen that is advantaged in both the middle and the late game against Miracles.

    I've got a little old-school Lands subtheme here, from back when they used to run Intuition. The usual pile is Life from the Loam, Academy Ruins, Engineered Explosives. If any of those has been drawn already, Thopter Foundry or some other artifact can be substituted so value isn't wasted. It's this Intuition plan that distinguishes my build from other versions of the deck, such as Bob Huang's or Rudy's, both of which leaned a little heavier on Enlightened Tutor.

    There are a few permanents that give this strategy trouble: Null Rod/Stony Silence, Rest In Peace, and to a lesser extent Blood Moon and related graveyard hate. That's why I've selected a pair of Krosan Grips as well as a Seal of Primordium for the sideboard. The former won't be triggered by Agent, and the later will wait on the field until it is needed. All can be cast with a single green mana (in addition to the colorless, of course), so the Forest is the first fetch target in those matchups.

    Combo decks are certainly the main weakness here. With the post-ban metagame in its current state of flux, I'm expecting (and hoping) most other folks reach for their fair decks. The only combo deck I think this pile could reasonably beat (some of the time) is Sneaky Show. With Detention Sphere, Bridge, and Karakas in the main, Enlightened Tutor to find the former two, and Humility + Seal of Primordium coming in out of the board along with the Meddling Mages, things might go my way more often than not. The rest of the combo matchups don't look pretty. This is the price paid for adding a color that doesn't interact much with combo (green) on top of Shardless Agent's already-stringent limitations.

    Comments and suggestions welcome. That's why I typed this out!
    Posted in: Midrange
  • posted a message on Burn
    Well, Mishra's Factory is an uncounterable, cheap artifact that beats for 2.
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • posted a message on [[Official]] What [deck] should I play/buy/get into thread
    You're really close to an older-school BURG list with the 2 Goyfs you've already got. All you'd really need are Wastelands and a pair of Sylvan Library.
    Posted in: Legacy (Type 1.5)
  • posted a message on [Deck] UW(x) Stoneblade
    Personally, I'm going to go Bant colors and play that old Shardless Stoneblade deck. I'd play Deathblade, but there's just too much Blood Moon in my area to make it plausible. I get Mooned every other match, it seems.
    Posted in: Midrange
  • posted a message on [Deck] UW(x) Stoneblade
    I don't agree with that, Thoughtseizes are (if anything) better at fighting Counterbalance. It's pretty hard to hit a resolved one with a blast, which means I'm committed to fighting it on the stack with my blast. This, in turn, means that the Miracles player can put it onto the stack at his leisure. In the meantime, he might bait it out with a Vendilion Clique or Dig Through Time, or wait until he has Force and Flusterstorm backup. Thoughtseize, on the other hand, is very likely to strip the enchantment if we're in an opening hand situation. Even if it whiffs, I still get to take something good. Thoughtseize will give me an opening to land a threat on my next turn, whereas the blast asks me not to tap out for things.

    I personally think that a nice, carefully constucted Esper build (with planeswalkers and a relevant sideboard) is at least even against Miracles, maybe slightly advantaged. We've typically got 2 Jace and 2 Liliana in the MD, with sideboard providing an extra walker (Elspeth or Sorin), a Bitterblossom, Stony Silence and Pithing Needle. Even if that's all that one has, bringing these in after -4 Force of Will yields a deck that needn't fear those long Miracles games.
    Posted in: Midrange
  • posted a message on Burn
    The Lavamancer vs. Swiftspear question largely comes down to whether you'd rather hedge against Miracles or Omnitell. Against Miracles, Lavamancer builds are a bit better. He's at his best in a grindy game, and he can continue giving value through the 2 CMC enchantment. We've often seen this paired with Divining Top in a fairly recent development. On the other hand, we have Swiftspear builds. These are designed to maximize T3 wins, stealing some number of Omnitell game 1s where they need to dig a bit more to get their combo pieces. The most common builds you'll see are Lavamancer decks with some extra sideboard space devoted to Omnitell, and Swiftspear decks with that same space devoted to Miracles.

    I personally prefer the Swiftspear builds with 2 Koth of the Hammer in the sideboard. I like unusual cards... but not too unusual, and I certainly can't comment on that cool Sligh build that's been bandied back and forth. I will say that the Vexing Devil idea is a little out there, living the 10 damage dream on turn 2 is incredibly unlikely given that an opponent lets you keep the Devil only when he turns on removal. Throwing 2 more cards on to him really flies in the face of reason unless the opponent tapped out.
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • posted a message on Am I insane wanting two different playset of art of an expensive card?
    You're free to get whatever cards you want in this collectible card game hobby, but personally I can't understand the desire to spend more money on cards that are already owned. That same outlay could go into expanding the collection. Until I have all the staples, including Tabernacle, I don't see why I should be buying the same thing twice.
    Posted in: Legacy (Type 1.5)
  • posted a message on [[Official]] What [deck] should I play/buy/get into thread
    I agree, in your circumstances this is not a difficult decision. Burn will perform far better for you than Deathblade would. Definitely work on the sideboard and the sideboard games though. It seems that few Burn players can agree on what cards should be in the board, and there are a few different coherent maindeck plans.
    Posted in: Legacy (Type 1.5)
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