@dC: Because I don't think there's going to be a second deadline extension.
Vierni's breakdown explains a lot. I find it astounding that rather than put forth effort and utilize the resulting interactions that come with actually making a case on people, the common methodology is just to skip it. While I can appreciate that on some level as a player who has shunned the once popular "PBPA" play style, surely there's certainly a happy medium to be found between "no case" and "walls of text".
That's enough theory discussion, though.
@Thor: What I asked for originally, and what I have yet to see that I can recall, is a list of reads on people who aren't voting you. Which is what Llamarble just asked for, as well, so I suspect my memory isn't failing me here. What "justification" are you awaiting from me, exactly?
Using an iPad in Vietnam, so less walls and, yes, I saw the request for game links but copy pasta seems annoying right now. Any fellow MSer ought to be able to easily provide that for me if there is a demand.
Also, timeline.
1 Iso make many statements about Thor.
2 Thor demands quotes to back up statements.
3 Iso declares he will no longer read (and respond, we presume) to Thor posts.
Y'know, that seems telling to me. Just saying. Hope it is not too subtle.
and my original comments here, last paragraph in particular:
Does my "detachment" perhaps coincide with...y'know, the being v/la in SE Asia?
I will admit it is affecting my posting habits.
Derp.
I mean more about how you're really sitting back and just letting things go at this point. Massive contrast to your case on Iso. You've been more parking your vote where everyone else is going recently.
No real drive, no real aggression.
I can understand not being able to post as much, but that's not something V/LA would affect.
I have remained snarky and belligerent...so besides constant posts, describe the loss of aggression in any specific way you can.
What we have here is failure to communicate Thor being self-aware of his play. This is not something that a town!Thor should be concerned with - maintaining a specific image.
Does anyone think this was sincere? Like, sarcastic-sincere, even? Because it just reads plastic to me.
Cyouni's posts really cover it - Thor has gone from aggressive-dismissive on defense to ... just there? I mean, I can't exactly explain it well either, but there's a significant tone shift in his early-day play versus his recent contributions, and unless I'm mistaken, he's been V/LA for the better part of toDay, so I don't think it's that, either.
The game started on 8/8, and he's been V/LA since 8/15, so the bulk of the game day he has been away. I started to feel the shift in posting style at 443, which was on 8/26. Therefore, as I said, I don't believe that's the underlying cause.
Quote from Iso »
This is so over-the-top forced.
Agreed; more plasticity. Really lacks the bite he had early on - that came across as genuine contempt; this comes across desperate. Also, as Kami pointed out, another CFTWR tell.
So, to be clear. We have Thor, who is apparently(according to everyone else from MS) well known to have this demeanor, regardless of alignment. Nevermind that demeanor is not a scum tell. But your argument is that, despite being under no suspicion because of it, he felt compelled to visibly change his demeanor anyway.
How does this make any sense? Why would anyone do so?
You are reaching, and you know it.
The way that you're trying to get me to look away from you only makes you look worse, also.
And the fact that Kami, one of the scummier people in this game, is championing this wagon also does not help.
The Thor wagon is bad, and I won't be a part of it. And neither should anyone else.
To be clear, Cyan, what we have here is Thor knowing that he's expected to play with a certain style.
He has stopped playing with said style, and been called on it.
He then says "oh, but I'm still snarky and belligerent" when he really hasn't been. He's been completely uninvolved since the Iso wagon fell apart, and his rebuttals to Kami have lacked the teeth they had with me early on. She's familiar with him, called him on his BS, and he's gone from the being the thread-bully to something else entirely.
That's the issue. He's basically acknowledged self-awareness of his play style and is arguing that the change didn't happen, or that it did for a reason that I don't believe for one second is the true driver.
Since you can't take a hint, let me be clearer: I am not going to be lynched today. Find a new case.
@Thor: 443 is weak, and the posts become more sarcastic and less aggressive/spiteful. Your response in 530 is off as well, since you go from "not able to recall my reason {for voting you} enough to make fun of it" with plastic joking about mocking it anyway to it suddenly "having internal logic ".
If I think someone's scum, and I vote them, it doesn't bug me AT ALL if the people helping me lynch scum don't bother posting a reason. Surely it's possible they thought my arguments were good or something. Questioning fellow voters shows low conviction. At least say "I appreciate the Vi vote, but out of curiousity what convinced you?" or something.
Right, because scum never hop on wagons and just let other townies do all of the work.
How is life in fantasyland?
Re: Thor: It's true that he has been posting differently, but now that we know that he is in Vietnam and is posting from an iPad, it makes sense. I don't think that further suspicion is warranted at this time.
In the mean time, more people should be looking at DYH. His attitude toward Thor is dubious at best. He was all up in arms about how Thor's attitude sucks, and then when Thor's posting demeanor changed, DYH used that as a point against him too. This smacks of opportunism. He didn't even bother trying to figure out WHY Thor was suddenly acting so differently. This isn't even consistent with DYH's stance of accepting Iso's 'well I'm trying a different playstyle'.
Wow, is that completely incorrect.
I've known Thor has been in Vietnam posting from an iPad, he mentioned it quite some time ago - and, as I pointed out - was posting like he did previously while on said iPad. So I don't believe the 'tone shift' is directly related to that. It is, in my opinion - as I clearly expressed in a very recent post - tied to his inability to just disregard the attack on him now that Kami/DGB is involved.
You need to reassess your read, Cyan, because you're wasting your time - and there's not much of it left before the deadline.
Cyouni's posts really cover it - Thor has gone from aggressive-dismissive on defense to ... just there? I mean, I can't exactly explain it well either, but there's a significant tone shift in his early-day play versus his recent contributions, and unless I'm mistaken, he's been V/LA for the better part of toDay, so I don't think it's that, either.
Pretty much everyone has been "just there" lately except for the people who aren't even that. Well except the Thor wagon, which would probably induce shifts in Thor-behavior. Also, what's scummy about a 'tone shift?' why are we talking about this. This is the kind of thing people mention because it sounds scummy and then don't even bother to imply is scummy.
What's scummy about a 'tone shift'? Well, previously it was just me and Iso going back and forth with him and basically zero support of a wagon on him. Now someone else has joined the fray - someone far more familiar with him (DGB/Kami) - and his attitude has changed. It's noticeable, and it's worth discussing.
Furthermore, you're glossing over the bigger piece which is his self-awareness of keeping up his image.
Using an iPad in Vietnam, so less walls and, yes, I saw the request for game links but copy pasta seems annoying right now. Any fellow MSer ought to be able to easily provide that for me if there is a demand.
Also, timeline.
1 Iso make many statements about Thor.
2 Thor demands quotes to back up statements.
3 Iso declares he will no longer read (and respond, we presume) to Thor posts.
Y'know, that seems telling to me. Just saying. Hope it is not too subtle.
Thor has been on an iPad in Vietnam for two weeks. Accusing him of being less aggressive and not having the same passion in his push on Iso is not good.
Eh, it's not about lacking passion in his Iso push, it's about lacking passion in anything. He's just going along with the flow - even saying as much, that he'd basically place a vote on anyone at one point - yet trying to convince people he's still the same ol' snarky, belligerent Thor when he's really not been.
Thor has gone from aggressive-dismissive on defense to ... just there? I mean, I can't exactly explain it well either, but there's a significant tone shift in his early-day play versus his recent contributions, and unless I'm mistaken, he's been V/LA for the better part of toDay, so I don't think it's that, either.
Thor is trying to get away with painting me as a blithering idiot and he's really sore that I caught him for stupid reasons.
This pieces into my original point to llamarble exactly.
Thor (along with a couple others) have expressed nothing but contempt for the MTGS players/playstyle, which is convenient when you want to brush off valid attacks, but he can't just disregard Kami.
Does my "detachment" perhaps coincide with...y'know, the being v/la in SE Asia?
I will admit it is affecting my posting habits.
Derp.
I mean more about how you're really sitting back and just letting things go at this point. Massive contrast to your case on Iso. You've been more parking your vote where everyone else is going recently.
No real drive, no real aggression.
I can understand not being able to post as much, but that's not something V/LA would affect.
I have remained snarky and belligerent...so besides constant posts, describe the loss of aggression in any specific way you can.
What we have here is failure to communicate Thor being self-aware of his play. This is not something that a town!Thor should be concerned with - maintaining a specific image.
Does anyone think this was sincere? Like, sarcastic-sincere, even? Because it just reads plastic to me.
Cyouni's posts really cover it - Thor has gone from aggressive-dismissive on defense to ... just there? I mean, I can't exactly explain it well either, but there's a significant tone shift in his early-day play versus his recent contributions, and unless I'm mistaken, he's been V/LA for the better part of toDay, so I don't think it's that, either.
The kami, Iso, DYH wagon.
A clear wagon of town energy.
would seem to imply you think the former given your stance on Iso. But there's no case provided - simply mocking, dismissive behavior, which we've established is definitely your M.O.
Looking back, the only reason you voted Cyouni was, and I quote, "spite", with a side of "I'll play along because Iso's avoiding it and a scum flip here should buy me town cred tomorrow".
So what are your reads on the players in this game?
What do you think about my post on Iso as it pertains to his claim? How do you normally address players hinting at a power role?
Well, the most obvious reason why I do not like your case on Iso is that I was in the middle of voting you when you presented it. I thought you were scum - still do - and wasn't the least bit inclined to partake in it.
Furthermore, I did not "ignore it"; hell, I did an analysis of it and asked you clarifying questions.
I am outraged, but expressing such isn't going to help the state of the game. I'm confident that once I claim, we can move on from this bull****, but I'd prefer not to if it's not necessary.
I didn't like Iso's original "I'll claim if you guys don't like my analysis" post, but this has teeth. Iso, filled with righteous indignation, has committed himself to a strong role claim and I don't care to see it exposed here on Day 1. I'm surprised more people hadn't picked up on that, and I'm also surprised to see votes coming back onto Iso at this juncture.
I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on that, as well as his admission on why he's playing differently than usual found here:
You should be quite aware that players such as Cyan and yourself don't put much stock into my standard playstyle of "vaguely accuse my scumspects until I get pushed to actually present a case and then try to convince everybody to lynch the people I want dead". That said, we've been thrust into a game with 6 people from a completely different metagame. (See above in my message to Zionite.) My typical play is off-putting, and in a game where half of the players have never played with me, I don't expect to have the clout of reputation strong enough to push the way I generally do. As a result, I opted to play more cautiously than normal. This in addition to a conscious decision to play less erratically due to a comment AsianInvasion made in [redacted because on-going game] has resulted in non-standard Iso play that is apparent to players such as Cyan who have played in several games with me. I'm pretty mad at myself for getting myself run up (from an awful wagon, at that) so early. I mean, I can always revert to my standard play, but that seems counter-intuitive to being less irritating to play with in general to people such as AsianInvasion.
In short, I'm not interested in Iso because I have a town read on him.
AsianInvasion (4) - Fadeblue, PopeRonPaul, Axelrod, Archmage Eternal
Axelrod (3) - Iso, Zionite, Taredas
Archmage Eternal (1) - AsianInvasion
Megiddo (1) - Cyan
With 10 alive, it is 6 to lynch.
Vierni's breakdown explains a lot. I find it astounding that rather than put forth effort and utilize the resulting interactions that come with actually making a case on people, the common methodology is just to skip it. While I can appreciate that on some level as a player who has shunned the once popular "PBPA" play style, surely there's certainly a happy medium to be found between "no case" and "walls of text".
That's enough theory discussion, though.
@Thor: What I asked for originally, and what I have yet to see that I can recall, is a list of reads on people who aren't voting you. Which is what Llamarble just asked for, as well, so I suspect my memory isn't failing me here. What "justification" are you awaiting from me, exactly?
Archmage Eternal (3) - AsianInvasion, Iso, Taredas
Megiddo (2) - Cyan, Archmage Eternal
AsianInvasion (1) - Fadeblue
Cyan (1) - PopeRonPaul
With 10 alive, it is 6 to lynch.
Thor states he's using an iPad in Vietnam here:
and my original comments here, last paragraph in particular:
The game started on 8/8, and he's been V/LA since 8/15, so the bulk of the game day he has been away. I started to feel the shift in posting style at 443, which was on 8/26. Therefore, as I said, I don't believe that's the underlying cause.
Agreed; more plasticity. Really lacks the bite he had early on - that came across as genuine contempt; this comes across desperate. Also, as Kami pointed out, another CFTWR tell.
To be clear, Cyan, what we have here is Thor knowing that he's expected to play with a certain style.
He has stopped playing with said style, and been called on it.
He then says "oh, but I'm still snarky and belligerent" when he really hasn't been. He's been completely uninvolved since the Iso wagon fell apart, and his rebuttals to Kami have lacked the teeth they had with me early on. She's familiar with him, called him on his BS, and he's gone from the being the thread-bully to something else entirely.
That's the issue. He's basically acknowledged self-awareness of his play style and is arguing that the change didn't happen, or that it did for a reason that I don't believe for one second is the true driver.
Since you can't take a hint, let me be clearer: I am not going to be lynched today. Find a new case.
@Thor: 443 is weak, and the posts become more sarcastic and less aggressive/spiteful. Your response in 530 is off as well, since you go from "not able to recall my reason {for voting you} enough to make fun of it" with plastic joking about mocking it anyway to it suddenly "having internal logic ".
Wow, is that completely incorrect.
I've known Thor has been in Vietnam posting from an iPad, he mentioned it quite some time ago - and, as I pointed out - was posting like he did previously while on said iPad. So I don't believe the 'tone shift' is directly related to that. It is, in my opinion - as I clearly expressed in a very recent post - tied to his inability to just disregard the attack on him now that Kami/DGB is involved.
You need to reassess your read, Cyan, because you're wasting your time - and there's not much of it left before the deadline.
Thanks,
DYH
Please PM me if you've been keeping up with the game and want to replace in.
What's scummy about a 'tone shift'? Well, previously it was just me and Iso going back and forth with him and basically zero support of a wagon on him. Now someone else has joined the fray - someone far more familiar with him (DGB/Kami) - and his attitude has changed. It's noticeable, and it's worth discussing.
Furthermore, you're glossing over the bigger piece which is his self-awareness of keeping up his image.
Eh, it's not about lacking passion in his Iso push, it's about lacking passion in anything. He's just going along with the flow - even saying as much, that he'd basically place a vote on anyone at one point - yet trying to convince people he's still the same ol' snarky, belligerent Thor when he's really not been.
This pieces into my original point to llamarble exactly.
Thor (along with a couple others) have expressed nothing but contempt for the MTGS players/playstyle, which is convenient when you want to brush off valid attacks, but he can't just disregard Kami.
What we have here is
failure to communicateThor being self-aware of his play. This is not something that a town!Thor should be concerned with - maintaining a specific image.Does anyone think this was sincere? Like, sarcastic-sincere, even? Because it just reads plastic to me.
Cyouni's posts really cover it - Thor has gone from aggressive-dismissive on defense to ... just there? I mean, I can't exactly explain it well either, but there's a significant tone shift in his early-day play versus his recent contributions, and unless I'm mistaken, he's been V/LA for the better part of toDay, so I don't think it's that, either.
Condoms (2) _ Iso, Axelrod
Archmage Eternal (1) - Cyan
AsianInvasion (1) - Fadeblue
Cyan (1) - Archmage Eternal
With 10 alive, it is 6 to lynch.
Condoms has been issued a final prod. If he does not post content by tomorrow, he will be replaced (if someone is willing at this point) or modkilled.
Found lying outside in a crumpled heap, DRey was Kiras, Town Battle-Mage Squire. There is a gaping wound in his chest, but no blood to be found.
He was just a teenager; it seems so unjust and callous for him to lose his life this way.
A grave is quickly dug for the boy and he is laid to rest.
Time is running out; find the traitors among you, or perish like so many others.
* * * * * * * * * * * * *
It is now Day Four.
With 10 alive, it is 6 to lynch!
This
would seem to imply you think the former given your stance on Iso. But there's no case provided - simply mocking, dismissive behavior, which we've established is definitely your M.O.
Looking back, the only reason you voted Cyouni was, and I quote, "spite", with a side of "I'll play along because Iso's avoiding it and a scum flip here should buy me town cred tomorrow".
So what are your reads on the players in this game?
What do you think about my post on Iso as it pertains to his claim? How do you normally address players hinting at a power role?
Well, the most obvious reason why I do not like your case on Iso is that I was in the middle of voting you when you presented it. I thought you were scum - still do - and wasn't the least bit inclined to partake in it.
Furthermore, I did not "ignore it"; hell, I did an analysis of it and asked you clarifying questions.
Most importantly, this:
I didn't like Iso's original "I'll claim if you guys don't like my analysis" post, but this has teeth. Iso, filled with righteous indignation, has committed himself to a strong role claim and I don't care to see it exposed here on Day 1. I'm surprised more people hadn't picked up on that, and I'm also surprised to see votes coming back onto Iso at this juncture.
I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on that, as well as his admission on why he's playing differently than usual found here:
In short, I'm not interested in Iso because I have a town read on him.