Huh? Why are you more convinced that he's town after reading the last five pages, in which the numbers he gave are called into serious question, and he modifies his explanation of his role twice? I mean, it's fine if you have a good reason, but the last several pages wouldn't be what I would have thought did it for you.
I have plenty of good reason. RafaelK's explanation of the "2" is inherently incorrect, Axelrod's explanation of the values seems sound. Let's not forget that English probably isn't C_F's first language, and he's done some research to clarify what his role is. "Books" holds an entirely different meaning in this case than the assumption he would've made about High School. In retrospect, coming out with the list when he did, to validate that AD was lying about the number of mafia, seems far more likely from a townie.
Quote from Carrion Pigeons »
The odds of C_F being actual mafia are pretty slim, but if he turned out to be, I'd be looking pretty hard at you; coming out of nowhere saying he looks more townie at the exact moment when he looks less townie than ever seems like a scum move to defend a fellow.
I'm pretty well convinced he's not mafia, yes. I think he would have modified the list if he were either the SK or the Cult Leader, so logistically, it's just not adding up for him to be scum at all.
Your propensity for pointing fingers in your posts (and voting gagged players) still has me concerned, honestly. But, I'm more concerned about the outcome of the ADD and ADHD kids than much else right now.
Corrected. Damn I'm good at writing Well, given the lead the mafia is taking, I think he should. But yeah, I didn't take to account that you might think me as SK, though I wouldn't probably have included that many "1"'s in my list if I was.
If it's still outstanding, unFoS: C_F. I'm more and more convinced he's town and the numbers are correct.
Quote from Axelrod »
I think I will second the call for Raf. and Matjoe to spill a bit more about themselves. Preferably with Raf. going first. You don't necessarily have to say everything right away, but we need something more to go on, and possibly we will still want it all afterwards.
"Third"-ed. Let's hear what there is to the make-up of the "ADHD kid" and the "ADD Kid". I'm still very skeptical that both roles would exist in the game, but I'm not ruling out the possibility, since someone would have had to take a big risk if there's a lie in here.
RafaelK knows he's as good as dead if the post restriction passes and he doesn't die. Matjoeman comes out from obscurity to semi-counter-claim RafaelK. I can't see a logical reason to do this move here if he's mafia. Let's get the information straight (at least as straight as it will be delivered), and decide where to go from there. Maybe there is some connection to the girl-block that we can use, at least?
I think it was understood what I meant. Raf has claimed a role-related game mechanic to support his claim, while Matjoeman hasn't.
I personally don't think so.
The possibilities I see are:
1) RafaelK is telling the truth, and Matjoeman is making a ridiculous play to try to get Raf lynched, which seems to be a very bad trade for the Mafia.
2) RafaelK lied about being the kid with ADHD. He may or may not actually have that restriction, but he needed to come up with a suitable rolename to go with his claim and happened to pick one that was already taken.
Well, this has certainly gotten interesting this evening. Matjoeman has really just come out of nowhere with this semi-counter-claim, and for the reason of "what person in their right mind" makes this claim when they're barely in the headlights (just a minor mention of four of us by CC), I'm tending to believe him. Which brings up Axel's question of "do we believe that both the ADD and ADHD kid exist?" which I'm finding hard to believe.
That's quite an analysis he put together on the list, as well, which all seems to be for naught. I can certainly see a mafia role winning where it's just he and a townie left. Rather than sharing the win with the whole group, they win together. Their role characters seemed pretty, well, attached. So I think we have the "2" accounted for.
FoS: RafaelK.
Very tired, headed to bed. I'll do some more research in the morning at work.
@Kenji: In quite possibly the funniest post of this game, Rafael answered your question:
Quote from RafaelK »
My X value shot up (well, relatively) to 25. 25 x 14 = 350, which is pretty close to the amount of posts yesterday. Which didn't turn out to be horribly many. If WOLG had been able to clear himself, we'd have run out of space. I'd assume the change in values is pre-planned and not arbitrary, but no idea what the pattern is. Maybe it's based on scum deaths, or town deaths, or Puzzle deaths. Maybe it's based on the amount I say chicken. Chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken.
This day started on post #562, yours is #639. We still have quite a ways to go before Raf is in danger, fortunately. (Barring any mod posts, he has until #912). I may sig those last two lines above someday.
It looks as though many of you are more convinced than I about C_F's restoration to townie-status. With that said, I'll unFOS: Crippled_Fist. I don't have any connections, and your logic is sound, so I'll roll with it. I'd like to hear now what his speculation is though that he mentions a few posts above since the focus is clearly off him.
I think fade explained well why it should be quite clear that Puzzle was the leader. I myself didn't have spotted the use of articles here, indeed I was just a "Republican" and Puzzle was "the Young Republican". Also the fact that a organisation of "Young Republicans" actually exist are promoting the idea in my opinion.
C_F, with all due respect, this still doesn't validate whether or not the cult dissolved with Puzzle's death, as was my original point:
Quote from DYH »
I think a lot of us are still skeptical of the cult disappearing with the death of Puzzle.
You're right, Fade's analysis does help clear you from being the original cult leader, but that doesn't mean there aren't a myriad of possibilities outstanding as to what's happened since Puzzle died. As it stands, you're the best lynch candidate, IMO, for safety and information's sake. If something better materializes, or the rest of the town disagrees on those points, I'm not going to turn this into a witch-hunt for you. I just went through that on MTGNews, myself, and it wasn't much fun. Nor was it very productive.
Quote from Crippled_Fist »
I must say I'm intrigued how big a difference there is between the people who support my lynch and who don't.
Care to elaborate?
On a side note: does anyone else see any reason why RafaelK shouldn't name claim? I'm curious as to what kind of role has such a posting restriction, and how it fits in thematically.
I think a lot of us are still skeptical of the cult disappearing with the death of Puzzle. But, is it in our best interest to try and outguess the mod here? Normally, I would say not, but we can learn quite a bit from the death of C_F; more than I think we can get from him alive:
If he shows up scum, it will shed some serious doubt on "the list", and we're down another mobster. If he's a townie, it's worst-case, but we can put a lot more faith in the numbers. If he comes up grey, well, then we've potentially saved the town from a cult-loss. If the town is in agreement, I would be willing to take this path for the sake of information-gaining, and the fact that I'm not quite trusting of C_F at this point. This appears, to me, to be the best target so far today.
I think I had brought up the possibility of Rafael's post-limitation as a good (and albeit brilliant) ploy to keep days short, too, but in retrospect, it draws an awful lot of attention to him. Also, if a day drags on without his death after said post count, he's going to be lynched (LAL). Is the risk here worth the reward (if he's scum)? I just don't think so.
I'm not sure but you're asking what's the cult win condition? I'm sorry I didn't post it when I told you about being cult, it just didn't cross my mind. My win condition was that when all the remaining cultists are Republican, we win.
Woah, woah, woah! When all CULTISTS are Republican? Is this a typo (should be players?), or is this an implication there is in fact more than one cult?
@Fade: Thanks for the clarification on the group. You're right, also the definite article "The" does imply perhaps it's a singular role. I must've missed this in mafia school- what does WIFOM mean?
I played one heck of a mean B/U evasion deck yesterday on MTGO. I'm actually playing a pretty nasty B/U/g one as I type this. Blue's fliers are very undervalued, as witnessed by the 3 Snapping Drakes I have today, and 2 yesterday. Just a funny story I want to pass along:
Finals yesterday, first game I'm going last. Swamp, Island, Swamp, Consult the Necrosages puts me to 8 cards. Discard Mindleech Mass. Turn 4, Island, Vigor Mortis the Mass, opponent scoops, lol. Also had Compulsive Research. By no means was it the plan of the deck, it was fun. On two other occassions I vigored the Mass for excellent results.
Back to the original point, if blue is being ignored, jump on it. The fliers, counters, and card drawing are powerful in limited. Remand is uncommon, but it's been very good to me as well. Tempo disruption is always a good thing, and screwing up a combat spell cheaply is never a bad thing, either.
@Axel: Assuming the list is correct, your breakdown has to be spot-on, meaning there's no SK. However, isn't it certainly feasible that when CF produced the list, he did state it exactly as-is, expecting the cult leader "1" to be presumed as an SK "1"? SKs are certainly more prevalent in mafia games than cults.
I'm just not 100% convinced that C_F lost his cult status upon Puzzle's death. I would think that just because Puzzle was grey doesn't necessarily mean he was the leader (or the "1" on the list), if he was just a cult member at death he wouldn't be town, either, right? I'm still bothered by the fact the Puzzle was the "Young" Republican. Still sounds like a recruitee name to me, and that the "Republican" would be the leader. I realize we're in high school, and therefore young, and this point is pretty aesthetic, but it's giving me a strange feeling.
It's worth noting that C_F did not vote for WOLG. Up until the point WOLG just gave in and claimed vig, he could certainly have been working under the mask above, since there were two kills on night 0. I'm not advocating a lynch yet of C_F, by any means. I'm just keeping my FoS there, since I'm still suspicious.
@C_F: Does your list get updated every day, or did you only get the initial starting documentation?
I have an outstanding FoS on C_F, and I'm not certain he's cleared. I don't however, see it being worth the risk involved to make the statements he did about a cult if he is, in fact, the leader. But, we still don't have clarification that his numbers are 100% accurate, either.
I think the death last night was the result of an extra mob kill as someone pointed out earlier. I just can't imagine an SK sitting for 2 days without adding to the death tally.
@Turbo: I'm very concerned about what happened to you. Is this slow death you're enduring related to the STD death of Puzzle in any way?
I had *something* happen last night that doesn't involve toilet paper, shadows, dreams, bright lights, girls, stds, sports, or any other night activity mentioned thus far. Has anyone else had something happen that they haven't said?
@Turbo: I didn't have anything happen to me last night. If you don't think it's going to put you or the town at risk, the information you have here would be helpful, I think.
@CP: This was just funny:
Quote from Carrion Pigeons »
OK, maybe you noticed and maybe not, but I promised to vote for Bat yesterday because I thought he was scum. Me being consistent should hardly inspire you to be suspicious of me. Second of all, him not being able to post does nothing to convince me of his innocence or a need to keep him alive for a day. It is very probable that he is scum, and nothing he says is likely to change that. I'm not apologizing for my vote; it's there for a reason.
I'm sure it wasn't intentionally worded that way, but of course nothing he says can change that-- he can't post!
You just might want to rethink the current position. I wouldn't have thought much of it if you didn't vote for bateleur immediately because you had said you would yesterday. A lot of things happened last night, and voting for a mute guy right off the bat (no pun intended) looks awfully scummy, promise or not.
I'll also third the motion for anyone shadow-blocked to come out.
I have plenty of good reason. RafaelK's explanation of the "2" is inherently incorrect, Axelrod's explanation of the values seems sound. Let's not forget that English probably isn't C_F's first language, and he's done some research to clarify what his role is. "Books" holds an entirely different meaning in this case than the assumption he would've made about High School. In retrospect, coming out with the list when he did, to validate that AD was lying about the number of mafia, seems far more likely from a townie.
I'm pretty well convinced he's not mafia, yes. I think he would have modified the list if he were either the SK or the Cult Leader, so logistically, it's just not adding up for him to be scum at all.
Your propensity for pointing fingers in your posts (and voting gagged players) still has me concerned, honestly. But, I'm more concerned about the outcome of the ADD and ADHD kids than much else right now.
If it's still outstanding, unFoS: C_F. I'm more and more convinced he's town and the numbers are correct.
"Third"-ed. Let's hear what there is to the make-up of the "ADHD kid" and the "ADD Kid". I'm still very skeptical that both roles would exist in the game, but I'm not ruling out the possibility, since someone would have had to take a big risk if there's a lie in here.
RafaelK knows he's as good as dead if the post restriction passes and he doesn't die. Matjoeman comes out from obscurity to semi-counter-claim RafaelK. I can't see a logical reason to do this move here if he's mafia. Let's get the information straight (at least as straight as it will be delivered), and decide where to go from there. Maybe there is some connection to the girl-block that we can use, at least?
Well, this has certainly gotten interesting this evening. Matjoeman has really just come out of nowhere with this semi-counter-claim, and for the reason of "what person in their right mind" makes this claim when they're barely in the headlights (just a minor mention of four of us by CC), I'm tending to believe him. Which brings up Axel's question of "do we believe that both the ADD and ADHD kid exist?" which I'm finding hard to believe.
That's quite an analysis he put together on the list, as well, which all seems to be for naught. I can certainly see a mafia role winning where it's just he and a townie left. Rather than sharing the win with the whole group, they win together. Their role characters seemed pretty, well, attached. So I think we have the "2" accounted for.
FoS: RafaelK.
Very tired, headed to bed. I'll do some more research in the morning at work.
This day started on post #562, yours is #639. We still have quite a ways to go before Raf is in danger, fortunately. (Barring any mod posts, he has until #912). I may sig those last two lines above someday.
It looks as though many of you are more convinced than I about C_F's restoration to townie-status. With that said, I'll unFOS: Crippled_Fist. I don't have any connections, and your logic is sound, so I'll roll with it. I'd like to hear now what his speculation is though that he mentions a few posts above since the focus is clearly off him.
C_F, with all due respect, this still doesn't validate whether or not the cult dissolved with Puzzle's death, as was my original point:
You're right, Fade's analysis does help clear you from being the original cult leader, but that doesn't mean there aren't a myriad of possibilities outstanding as to what's happened since Puzzle died. As it stands, you're the best lynch candidate, IMO, for safety and information's sake. If something better materializes, or the rest of the town disagrees on those points, I'm not going to turn this into a witch-hunt for you. I just went through that on MTGNews, myself, and it wasn't much fun. Nor was it very productive.
Care to elaborate?
On a side note: does anyone else see any reason why RafaelK shouldn't name claim? I'm curious as to what kind of role has such a posting restriction, and how it fits in thematically.
If he shows up scum, it will shed some serious doubt on "the list", and we're down another mobster. If he's a townie, it's worst-case, but we can put a lot more faith in the numbers. If he comes up grey, well, then we've potentially saved the town from a cult-loss. If the town is in agreement, I would be willing to take this path for the sake of information-gaining, and the fact that I'm not quite trusting of C_F at this point. This appears, to me, to be the best target so far today.
I think I had brought up the possibility of Rafael's post-limitation as a good (and albeit brilliant) ploy to keep days short, too, but in retrospect, it draws an awful lot of attention to him. Also, if a day drags on without his death after said post count, he's going to be lynched (LAL). Is the risk here worth the reward (if he's scum)? I just don't think so.
Woah, woah, woah! When all CULTISTS are Republican? Is this a typo (should be players?), or is this an implication there is in fact more than one cult?
@Fade: Thanks for the clarification on the group. You're right, also the definite article "The" does imply perhaps it's a singular role. I must've missed this in mafia school- what does WIFOM mean?
@Turbo: That sucks, buddy.
Finals yesterday, first game I'm going last. Swamp, Island, Swamp, Consult the Necrosages puts me to 8 cards. Discard Mindleech Mass. Turn 4, Island, Vigor Mortis the Mass, opponent scoops, lol. Also had Compulsive Research. By no means was it the plan of the deck, it was fun. On two other occassions I vigored the Mass for excellent results.
Back to the original point, if blue is being ignored, jump on it. The fliers, counters, and card drawing are powerful in limited. Remand is uncommon, but it's been very good to me as well. Tempo disruption is always a good thing, and screwing up a combat spell cheaply is never a bad thing, either.
I'm just not 100% convinced that C_F lost his cult status upon Puzzle's death. I would think that just because Puzzle was grey doesn't necessarily mean he was the leader (or the "1" on the list), if he was just a cult member at death he wouldn't be town, either, right? I'm still bothered by the fact the Puzzle was the "Young" Republican. Still sounds like a recruitee name to me, and that the "Republican" would be the leader. I realize we're in high school, and therefore young, and this point is pretty aesthetic, but it's giving me a strange feeling.
It's worth noting that C_F did not vote for WOLG. Up until the point WOLG just gave in and claimed vig, he could certainly have been working under the mask above, since there were two kills on night 0. I'm not advocating a lynch yet of C_F, by any means. I'm just keeping my FoS there, since I'm still suspicious.
@C_F: Does your list get updated every day, or did you only get the initial starting documentation?
I think the death last night was the result of an extra mob kill as someone pointed out earlier. I just can't imagine an SK sitting for 2 days without adding to the death tally.
@Turbo: I'm very concerned about what happened to you. Is this slow death you're enduring related to the STD death of Puzzle in any way?
I have no connections with any other students.
@Turbo: I didn't have anything happen to me last night. If you don't think it's going to put you or the town at risk, the information you have here would be helpful, I think.
@CP: This was just funny:
I'm sure it wasn't intentionally worded that way, but of course nothing he says can change that-- he can't post!
You just might want to rethink the current position. I wouldn't have thought much of it if you didn't vote for bateleur immediately because you had said you would yesterday. A lot of things happened last night, and voting for a mute guy right off the bat (no pun intended) looks awfully scummy, promise or not.
I'll also third the motion for anyone shadow-blocked to come out.
Ack, bringing back visions of my insane high school english teacher dressed up as Miss Havisham.