You get the two, plus Blood Artist by podding the Messenger after the swing too though. By podding then swinging you're giving up the Geralf swinging to have an Aristocrat swing. That's +1 damage, unless you have to protect the Aristocrat, then you're stuck sacing something else to protect it (usually a gravecrawler) resulting in less damage.
That's why I prefer the sac outlets where you're not relying on swinging like Dross Hopper (it's also easier to pod into... there's more 1 drops than 3 drops). Like I said, I think it's just a meta thing. My meta is currently packed with instant red removal, which forces a sacrifice to the Aristocrat before swinging.
I agree it could be a meta thing. I dont see to many people running gut shot or other cheap red removal.
The reason I don't like doing that is the 1 toughness on the Aristocrat. I've found that a lot of times people in my meta have a gut shot ready and they'll use it on the Aristocrat, which forces a sacrifice. The end result being I lose 2 damage sacing something to save the Aristocrat and lose 3 from the Geralfs not swinging (since it was podded) to deal 4. Alternatively it eats a bounce and I need to spend 4 mana to get it back into play. Both are scenarios where I find it better to swing and then pod.
Maybe it's just a meta thing though
I really never had a issue with sacking a crawler to keep him alive since I can replay the crawler if there is another zombie in play. Also you are not lossing 3 damage by poding away the messenger since he comes back and does 2 damage not counting if you have Blood Artists in play. Then the 4 damage in the air. Every time I played him I won on that turn or the turn after. You have to play it right. I dont pod for him if I dont have a Blood Artist on the board. If I pod a messenger with out the Blood Artist most of the time I am getting the Phyrexian Metamorph to either copy the messenger or copy something on there side that I am having issues with.
You dont pod for the Aristocrat unless you can win with either swinging in the air, sacking your team for the win, or comboing of with the gravecrawler, another zombie in play, and a Blood Artist.
Took out 1 Gravecrawler since he can block. In aggro matchs I found that I was having a problem if my oppenet came out to fast and didnt have something to block with.
I am switching up the deck a bit for this weekend. Have a feeling ill be seeing either a lot of aggro or delver match ups.
Gloom Surgeon is only a good 2 drop if you play POD. If not, you ll lose some of your good cards, and you wont have the chance to search them so...
While playing the card over the weekend I maybe exiled 10 cards if that. I find that people dont like to block it because they loss the creature and he is still on the board. Also when he is untaped and able to block people wouldnt attack into him as offten as if it was something else.
i was just thingking, mikeaus the unhallowed for the top curve in zombie pod? crawlers that go up to 4/3? lol. artist returning even though they did their job?
There is no need to add a 6 drop to this deck. You should be winning or have won by the time you pod up to 6.
Taking the one Manic Vandal out of the main deck and adding another Falkenrath Aristocrat. This card is to good when it comes into play not to add another one.
Still not 100% sold on the sideboard for this weekend at the Magic World Cup Quilifires in Maryland but I dont think there is to many othere options at the moment. Maybe adding 1 more Tragic Slip to the side board for Delver? Going to see a lot of that there and also helps vs. Ink Moth. Piller of Flame really didnt do much at the IQ. Maybe take them out?
The funny thing is I did not see a strangle root or a wurmqoil at all at the IQ. I won every game pretty fast. I was standing around waitting almost every round.
i am not to sold on the 1 one Manic Vandal in the deck. I played him once out of my hand to get another guy on the board but never really used him for what he was for. sided the other 2 in once but never had to use them.
The spitters really helped turn one for mana dorks and Champion of the Parish.
Ya I was always happy to have a metamorph in hand or when I drew into one. Metamophing a messenger really puts them in a bad spot. I also love making another Blood Artist.
Thanks. Ill be driving down to Alanta for the open in Sept. with 2 friends that also have invites. I just have to learn and play test Legacy now. >_<
OoberLlama- Mana was never a issue for me. I only got mana flooded one game and that was the game I started with the 5 card hand. Other then that the mana came out very good. I did take damage offten from the pod but I was never in a bad spot to where if I did take damage from it it would hurt me any. Also with Blood Artist in play it really didnt hurt all that bad. Game's where I did have the green mana to pod was nice but really didnt need it.
The whole day I dont think I ever thought that if I had mortor pod I would have been in a better place or help me win faster. with running 3 slip and 2 spitters I was able to take out anything small early. I do wish I had another Aristocrat in the main. I dont know how many times it was nice to sack my team to her for the win.
I also love Gloom Surgeons. At first I didnt care for them and really didnt like them to much. But after playing a deck with them in here I really grew to love them. People dont want to block them because they no longer can trade something small to them. There werent to many games where I exlied cards do to them taking damage. People really need to play with them and see how good they are early and even late game as a blocker.
So I played in an IQ over the weekend. There where 29 players (kinda small) that showed up. I ended up taking first place with a zombie pod list that 2-0 every round I played. I did not drop a game in any round.
The deck came out amazingly, I can not be any happier with this deck. I am glad I had some practice with other zombie builds since it was pretty hard to play. I seen others playing zombies and missing Blood Artist triggers or watching them pass the turn when they had games won if they sacked there and let Blood Artist win the game for them.
Round 1:
I played against a W/G human build with Birds of Paradise in the main. Game one I came out fast with grave crawler and 2 Gloom Surgeon. He came out slow with Gather the Towns Folk and birds. I ended up taking this game pretty easy after dropping back to back Messengers.
Game 2 I came out a bit slow and he took out a big hunk of my life total. I was able to get a Gloom Surgeon that was able to stall the bored for a few turns. Then I was able to get a pod and a hard cast Conscripts taking his bird that had 2 +1 +1 counters on it from town ship. Poded his bird away for a Blood Artist and on my next draw step I top decked an Phyrexian Obliterator and it was over 2 turns later.
Round 2:
He was playing a U/G ramp deck, it had mana dorks and huge cretures (Wurm Coil, Titan, Etc.) First game I game out swinging with a grave crawler and 2 ghouls. Turn 4 I dropped 2 Blood Artist and that was game.
Game 2 was a bit weird to say the least. I drew a no land hand twice and had to keep a 5 card hand that had 2 slips a GFTT and 2 lands. He went and played forest bird. I played swamp and slip. His second turn he plays no land and a landwar. I played r/b land and slip. His turn 3 he plays no land and play’s bird. It top deck a land and GFTT’ed his bird. Next turn I play a Blood artist and say go. He is still stuck on one land and passes back to me. I top deck a ghoul and play it. He plays land and ramped growth. I play my 3rd land and attack. He plays no land and metamorphs my ghoul. I play another land and attack. He plays sword of feast and famine. I top deck my own metamorph and copy his sword. From there I and up winning the game because he is stuck on 3 land.
I have no Idea why he kept a 1 land hand knowing I was playing zombies.
Round 3
He is playing esper tokens and was on the play. He went land go till turn 3. I went gravecrawler then Gloom Surgeon. His turn 3 plays lingering. My turn 3 I play ghoul the Blood Artist. His turn 4 he tapped out figuring he had the day I started counting up damage the blood artist would do. Instead he flashes back lingering and plays Intangible Virtue. I play another Blood Artist and it was pretty much game from there with him sitting on 2 Doom Blades.
Game 2 it went back and forth but I ended up winning after poding into a Conscripts and taking his Giddion and make it a 6/6 and swing for the game.
Rounds 4 and 5 I drew. I got some food and waited for top 8.
In top 8 I played a U/W blink deck with no Vensor in it. Game one I came out so fast that all he played was a blade splicer and 2 ponders,
Game 2 it was a battle till the end. He played Blade Splicer with Angel and then a Giddion. I was able to battle through everything with 2 Blood Artist and a Messenger with a Metamorph copying his Angel and blinking my Messenger. I then drew a pod and pod’ed into my Aristocrat sacking my team for the win.
Top 4 he was playing a zombie pod list as well but he didn’t need the invite and was able to talk him into giving me the win. We went next door and had a few beers before I had to play in the Finales.
In the Finales I offered the guy the split and $50 extra from the price for the win and invite. He took it. He was playing U/W Delver.
All and All the deck played awesome. The sideboard might be changed up a bit.
For starters you cast Dangerous Wager When you dont have a hand to discard then draw 2 cards. You are going to be unloading your hand so fast a nice draw 2 spell is nice to get the extra burn in.
Ok before I get started I am sure you are going to get a laugh out of some one trying to build standard Goblins. So go a head and get it out. Once you are done and would like to help smooth out this deck please join me below.
So yes I am trying to build Goblins for the Magic World Cup Qualifiers. Want to test it out this weekend and if it does well I will be playing it at the MWCQ.
Moutz- I think you are %100 right about ghost quarter. The problem I have is trying to fit it into a already stressed mana base.
- I also agree with Mastery. I wasnt %100 sure about the card going in this build after playing it in U/W Miracles. I just havent had the time to play test as of yet and not sure I will before I play Sat. But it does free up 2 spots.
-Mana Leak is where I dont see eye to eye with you about. It stalls for you early game and allows you to set up a bit more. It also helps late game when they try to play there bigger spells.
-Tragic slip I could see maybe one or 2.
-I also dont see the need for 4 o-ring. i never really been sold on that card in decks like this.
What do you think of taking out maybe one day and adding the 4th terminus main deck? Bit over kill?
I am also thinking about maybe either taking out either elesh or Death's hold. not sure if I need both in here.
I love her and intend to use her as a 3x in my builds. I ran her in both a Miracles Esper list last weekend at the GP and my Superfriends list in a side event and she was fantastic. Ult'ing her wasn't hard, but be ready for tricky rules questions.
For example, in the GP Event, I played a match where I had her Emblem on, and used a Mana leak to basically keep my opponent from playing any new spells by replaying Leak to counter the same spell even after the 3 is paid. The match ended and the guy next to us said "that's not how it is, the spell resolves if he pays the 3." I felt a bit stupid, apologized and said that's not how I figured it worked... and showed him my hand the proved I could still have won the match.
Then I'm playing later in the weekend, and I have a Mana Leak and her Emblem up... I'm thinking I can't play it multiple times in a row to counter the spell so the match grinded on (as he had plenty of mana up). I still won, but like 5 people including 2 judges said "yeah you could have won that 8 turns ago (no lie)." I told them what I was told, and they all said "nope, you were right." *head on desk*
I should have asked a judge when the original guy doubted, but it seemed perfectly legit to me and it never came up again in the actual GP.
i had a judge mid game tell me I couldnt use mana leak again after they play the 3. I had emblem up and everything. I still won the match. After it was over I talked to the judge and after about 5 minutes of going back and fowrth about how it work he looked it up and then came and told me I was right and he was sorry.
I agree it could be a meta thing. I dont see to many people running gut shot or other cheap red removal.
I really never had a issue with sacking a crawler to keep him alive since I can replay the crawler if there is another zombie in play. Also you are not lossing 3 damage by poding away the messenger since he comes back and does 2 damage not counting if you have Blood Artists in play. Then the 4 damage in the air. Every time I played him I won on that turn or the turn after. You have to play it right. I dont pod for him if I dont have a Blood Artist on the board. If I pod a messenger with out the Blood Artist most of the time I am getting the Phyrexian Metamorph to either copy the messenger or copy something on there side that I am having issues with.
You dont pod for the Aristocrat unless you can win with either swinging in the air, sacking your team for the win, or comboing of with the gravecrawler, another zombie in play, and a Blood Artist.
This might seem a bit weird but I was taking out a Birthing Pod, Zealous Conscripts, Manic Vandal (If I didnt see any Swords), Gravecrawler, and a Phyrexian Metamorph.
Took out 1 Gravecrawler since he can block. In aggro matchs I found that I was having a problem if my oppenet came out to fast and didnt have something to block with.
I am switching up the deck a bit for this weekend. Have a feeling ill be seeing either a lot of aggro or delver match ups.
Not sure what I want to do yet. Was thinking about taking out a birthing pod to cut the deck to 60 cards then removing both Fume Spitter and adding another tragic slip and then moving Bonfire of the Damned to the main deck.
Not %100 sure what I want to do yet.
1 Bonfire of the Damned
2 Despise
2 Liliana of the Veil
2 Manic Vandal
3 Phyrexian Obliterator
2 Black Sun’s Zenith
2 Piller of Flame
1 Zealous Conscripts
Bonfire orf the Damned, Black Sun's Zenith, and Phyrexian Obliterator vs. any type of agro deck. Phyrexian Obliterator won me 2 games over the weekend. Never casted the Bonfire orf the Damned or Black Sun's Zenith.
Despise and Liliana of the Veil during control match ups. There wasnt a match I sided them in on over the weekend.
Piller of Flame and Phyrexian Obliterator vs. Zombies.
Zealous Conscripts for tittans and other big creatures. He took a Giddion and it took the game for me.
Manic Vandal vs. swords, pod, etc.
Aazadan - red adds Zealous Conscripts and Falkenrath Aristocrat. Falkenrath Aristocrat wins games for you. You pod for it off the messenger and swing for 4 then sack your team to it if you have Blood Artist in play for the game.
While playing the card over the weekend I maybe exiled 10 cards if that. I find that people dont like to block it because they loss the creature and he is still on the board. Also when he is untaped and able to block people wouldnt attack into him as offten as if it was something else.
There is no need to add a 6 drop to this deck. You should be winning or have won by the time you pod up to 6.
Thinking about changing things up a bit to this:
4 Blood Artist
4 Diregraf Ghoul
2 Falkenrath Aristocrat
2 Fume Spitter
4 Geralf's Messenger
4 Gloom Surgeon
4 Gravecrawler
3 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Zealous Conscripts
4 Birthing Pod
2 Go for the Throat
3 Tragic Slip
Land:
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
3 Cavern of Souls
4 Dragonskull Summit
10 Swamp
3 Woodland Cemetery
1 Bonfire of the Damned
2 Despise
2 Liliana of the Veil
2 Manic Vandal
3 Phyrexian Obliterator
2 Black Sun’s Zenith
2 Piller of Flame
1 Zealous Conscripts
Taking the one Manic Vandal out of the main deck and adding another Falkenrath Aristocrat. This card is to good when it comes into play not to add another one.
Still not 100% sold on the sideboard for this weekend at the Magic World Cup Quilifires in Maryland but I dont think there is to many othere options at the moment. Maybe adding 1 more Tragic Slip to the side board for Delver? Going to see a lot of that there and also helps vs. Ink Moth. Piller of Flame really didnt do much at the IQ. Maybe take them out?
i am not to sold on the 1 one Manic Vandal in the deck. I played him once out of my hand to get another guy on the board but never really used him for what he was for. sided the other 2 in once but never had to use them.
The spitters really helped turn one for mana dorks and Champion of the Parish.
Ya I was always happy to have a metamorph in hand or when I drew into one. Metamophing a messenger really puts them in a bad spot. I also love making another Blood Artist.
Thanks. Ill be driving down to Alanta for the open in Sept. with 2 friends that also have invites. I just have to learn and play test Legacy now. >_<
The whole day I dont think I ever thought that if I had mortor pod I would have been in a better place or help me win faster. with running 3 slip and 2 spitters I was able to take out anything small early. I do wish I had another Aristocrat in the main. I dont know how many times it was nice to sack my team to her for the win.
I also love Gloom Surgeons. At first I didnt care for them and really didnt like them to much. But after playing a deck with them in here I really grew to love them. People dont want to block them because they no longer can trade something small to them. There werent to many games where I exlied cards do to them taking damage. People really need to play with them and see how good they are early and even late game as a blocker.
Here is the list:
4 Blood Artist
4 Diregraf Ghoul
1 Falkenrath Aristocrat
2 Fume Spitter
4 Geralf's Messenger
4 Gloom Surgeon
4 Gravecrawler
1 Manic Vandal
3 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Zealous Conscripts
4Birthing Pod
2 Go for the Throat
3 Tragic Slip
Land:
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
3 Cavern of Souls
4 Dragonskull Summit
10 Swamp
3 Woodland Cemetery
1 Bonfire of the Damned
2 Despise
2 Liliana of the Veil
2 Manic Vandal
3 Phyrexian Obliterator
2 Black Sun’s Zenith
2 Piller of Flame
1 Zealous Conscripts
The deck came out amazingly, I can not be any happier with this deck. I am glad I had some practice with other zombie builds since it was pretty hard to play. I seen others playing zombies and missing Blood Artist triggers or watching them pass the turn when they had games won if they sacked there and let Blood Artist win the game for them.
Round 1:
I played against a W/G human build with Birds of Paradise in the main. Game one I came out fast with grave crawler and 2 Gloom Surgeon. He came out slow with Gather the Towns Folk and birds. I ended up taking this game pretty easy after dropping back to back Messengers.
Game 2 I came out a bit slow and he took out a big hunk of my life total. I was able to get a Gloom Surgeon that was able to stall the bored for a few turns. Then I was able to get a pod and a hard cast Conscripts taking his bird that had 2 +1 +1 counters on it from town ship. Poded his bird away for a Blood Artist and on my next draw step I top decked an Phyrexian Obliterator and it was over 2 turns later.
Round 2:
He was playing a U/G ramp deck, it had mana dorks and huge cretures (Wurm Coil, Titan, Etc.) First game I game out swinging with a grave crawler and 2 ghouls. Turn 4 I dropped 2 Blood Artist and that was game.
Game 2 was a bit weird to say the least. I drew a no land hand twice and had to keep a 5 card hand that had 2 slips a GFTT and 2 lands. He went and played forest bird. I played swamp and slip. His second turn he plays no land and a landwar. I played r/b land and slip. His turn 3 he plays no land and play’s bird. It top deck a land and GFTT’ed his bird. Next turn I play a Blood artist and say go. He is still stuck on one land and passes back to me. I top deck a ghoul and play it. He plays land and ramped growth. I play my 3rd land and attack. He plays no land and metamorphs my ghoul. I play another land and attack. He plays sword of feast and famine. I top deck my own metamorph and copy his sword. From there I and up winning the game because he is stuck on 3 land.
I have no Idea why he kept a 1 land hand knowing I was playing zombies.
Round 3
He is playing esper tokens and was on the play. He went land go till turn 3. I went gravecrawler then Gloom Surgeon. His turn 3 plays lingering. My turn 3 I play ghoul the Blood Artist. His turn 4 he tapped out figuring he had the day I started counting up damage the blood artist would do. Instead he flashes back lingering and plays Intangible Virtue. I play another Blood Artist and it was pretty much game from there with him sitting on 2 Doom Blades.
Game 2 it went back and forth but I ended up winning after poding into a Conscripts and taking his Giddion and make it a 6/6 and swing for the game.
Rounds 4 and 5 I drew. I got some food and waited for top 8.
In top 8 I played a U/W blink deck with no Vensor in it. Game one I came out so fast that all he played was a blade splicer and 2 ponders,
Game 2 it was a battle till the end. He played Blade Splicer with Angel and then a Giddion. I was able to battle through everything with 2 Blood Artist and a Messenger with a Metamorph copying his Angel and blinking my Messenger. I then drew a pod and pod’ed into my Aristocrat sacking my team for the win.
Top 4 he was playing a zombie pod list as well but he didn’t need the invite and was able to talk him into giving me the win. We went next door and had a few beers before I had to play in the Finales.
In the Finales I offered the guy the split and $50 extra from the price for the win and invite. He took it. He was playing U/W Delver.
All and All the deck played awesome. The sideboard might be changed up a bit.
Any questions please ask away.
Also here is a link to a article about the deck and some MTGO video's of the deck being played: http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/article.asp?ID=10522
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Manic Vandal
3 Pillar of Flame
2 Wrack with Madness
2 Manabarbs
2 Circle of Flame
2 Act of Treason
So yes I am trying to build Goblins for the Magic World Cup Qualifiers. Want to test it out this weekend and if it does well I will be playing it at the MWCQ.
So here is the list I have so far:
4 Goblin Arsonist
4 Goblin Fireslinger
4 Spikeshot Elder
4 Goblin Wardriver
4 Goblin Chieftain
4 Goblin Grenade
4 Brimstone Volley
4 Incinerate
4 Galvanic Blast
2 Dangerous Wager
2 Rootbound Crag
19 Mountain
So this is kind of what I am thinking.
Come out swinging with the goblins then use Goblin Grenade and Brimstone Volley to finish them off.
2 Rootbound are in there for side boarding in ancient grudge.
Was going to put Koth and Shrines in but felt like they were to slow.
Dangerous Wager for draw later in the game
What do you guys think? Or are you still laughing.
- I also agree with Mastery. I wasnt %100 sure about the card going in this build after playing it in U/W Miracles. I just havent had the time to play test as of yet and not sure I will before I play Sat. But it does free up 2 spots.
-Mana Leak is where I dont see eye to eye with you about. It stalls for you early game and allows you to set up a bit more. It also helps late game when they try to play there bigger spells.
-Tragic slip I could see maybe one or 2.
-I also dont see the need for 4 o-ring. i never really been sold on that card in decks like this.
What do you think of taking out maybe one day and adding the 4th terminus main deck? Bit over kill?
I am also thinking about maybe either taking out either elesh or Death's hold. not sure if I need both in here.
Thank you for you thoughts Moutz.
I wasa thinking about taking out mastery out of the deck. I noticed you only play 1. did it help at all when you drew it?
i am also lacking draw spells and I dont like that much.
U/W to me was having bad matchs VS. other control decks and wold run.
i had a judge mid game tell me I couldnt use mana leak again after they play the 3. I had emblem up and everything. I still won the match. After it was over I talked to the judge and after about 5 minutes of going back and fowrth about how it work he looked it up and then came and told me I was right and he was sorry.