Really sorry if this is the wrong place for this, but I saw other Battle Box discussion under the cube forum so I figured this was ok.
Anyway, my question is...what do people think of the Ascend mechanic for Battle Box? Getting to 10 permanents seems much more likely when you get a free land every turn, so the cards get more powerful automatically in the late game. Too slow, or worth it?
I'm not sure I've said this before and I hate when people are hyperbolic but no way am I putting this in my cube. it is good enough for sure but it represents something I don't really like in current design space. The last gideon was annoying enough to play against and this seems worse. One of the 3 Gideons was probably going to be chopped from my 450 anyway. Really tired of more powerful generic planeswalkers. This is fine in all kinds of decks but it doesn't make any particular strategy better.
Just plain gross.
But for all those playing it I am sure it will be great.
YES. Really agree with you. Especially the part about being tired of powerful generic planeswalkers. I would love to see the Gatewatch go away for a while, and PW'ers in general be less emphasized. But yeah, obviously it's a great cube card. Just represents a lot of things I'm not that excited about for cube and Magic in general.
I followed VegaTDM's advice and put a FKZ in and have really liked having it. Especially with all the DRS' in my meta, it's nice to have another option for winning.
As for the people who aren't into the counter magic SB plan, any sideboard suggestions? I'm really trying to find a SB I like, but not sure what to use. VegaTDM? Any update on your SB? Thanks!
I'm moving into Sneak and Show, I playtested it a bit but I never really had to play against it since no one is playing it in my meta. So it's the first time I'm really looking up on the deck. I know that different versions of the deck exist, like most decks. There's one with omniscience, cunning wish, and intuition mainboard(http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=14544&d=287254&f=LE) and the other version just showed up in the top 8 of the last legacy GP(http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=14415&d=286242&f=LE). So what I wanted to know is the major differences when playing each of the versions and the pros and cons of each. If anyone could inform me it would be appreciated, thanks :).
Quick answer is that the Cunning wish version allows you to toolbox for answers to pretty much anything you need. It's also a bit harder to hate out because you aren't all in on the big fat creature plan. The standard list is a bit more consistent as far as getting the combo and going off, but it suffers from certain match ups due to not having the same answers as the cunning wish version.
Wish version - More answers, bit less consistent.
Standard list - Less answers, bit more consistent.
There's obviously a lot more in depth analysis you can get into, but I think that basically sums it up.
If you're playing Nacatl Copperline Gorge is worse than a shockland - sure, it lets you play a 1/1 on T1, but it doesn't grow Nacatl at all.
Not taking the fetch/shock damage to have access to W was huge at my PPTQ. I definitely won against Bantdrazi because of it.
Overall copperline gorge may be worse, but it's certainly not because it doesn't grow Nacatl. If you drop Nacatl turn 1, you are hoping to fetch for foundry on T2, growing your guy to a 3/3. Having Nacatl be a 2/2 on turn 1 is pointless 99% of the time, especially if you have to take 2-3 damage to make him 2/2. Gorge is worse than a shock in 2 specific ways (not fetchable, coming in tapped later), BUT those arguments are somewhat offset due to being able to play green on turn 1. There is never a time when you need white on turn 1, so I think it's not worth it.
As for your win against Bantdrazi, I wasn't saying that the 2 dmg will never be worthwhile. Obviously there will be times when it changes a game's outcome. My point was that I think those cases where it helps you are going to be fewer than the times when it hurts you. I can name quite a few games where I've needed white to win, and I top decked a fetch or foundry...boom, win. I think those instances will be more frequent than the 2 life winning or losing you a game.
Not sure why everyone is so high on inspiring vantage. If you are not playing wild nacatl then MAYBE I can see it, but I also think it's crazy to not play Nacatl...the card is great. The argument for fast lands is that you can cast things on turn 1, but there isn't a single white card in the deck that you want to cast on turn 1. Copperline gorge is a necessary evil if you play Nacatl because it's just so good on turn 1. Not being able to fetch them seems like a pretty big downside also. So is it really worth it to have a land you can't fetch, that will come into play tapped any time after land 3, and that doesn't help you cast anything turn 1...all to save out on 2 damage sometimes? Doesn't seem like it to me.
As for lightning helix, I love the card, but I think a lot of the fast match-ups are already fairly favorable/even, so I don't know if I would go to 4 in the SB.
I was thinking of pulling the Masticores for vehicles. TBH the Masticores never seem to be popular picks. Maybe my playgroup just doesn't know how to use them effectively (myself included), but these vehicles seem sweet!
Personally I don't think the scrabbling claws are needed. I've just been running the 4 relic of progenitus and been perfectly fine. You only have the 4 herders and 4 stranglers that need a card exiled, and with 4 paths, 4 sowers, and 4 relics, I rarely have trouble getting there. I also run a bog, which I notice you don't run. That makes 13 main deck cards that exile, so I usually have one in time. There have been a few times where I haven't drawn an exiling card, and been forced to hold a herder or strangler, but honestly I think that is not all that bad considering we usually have other stuff to do anyways. Also, I don't really like drawing another relic late game, although at least it replaces itself. It's a tough spot, because you really want to always get one, but once you have one you don't really need more. That's why I prefer 4 to 6.
Going back to a discussion that was started earlier, what does everyone think about adding a single shock land in order to broaden our sideboard options? Someone mentioned splashing red for slaughter games or crumble to dust. I know that burn decks have been doing this for a long time by running a single stomping ground for a green splash, and I think it's a good idea for us as well. Honestly I've found the SB options in B/W to be a little meh, so maybe a splash would work. What are people's thoughts?
I have to disagree. Bog, Ghost Quarter, and Eye are all very important and legit Map targets, and the first two are singletons in most lists. Some people also run Cavern, which is also a good target. I've had a few games where I had no paths or relics, so going for that Bog allowed me to start my entire game plan. I really think you are underselling the maps. They may be better in Tron, but that doesn't make them bad for us. But anyways, I don't mean to argue it too much, if you run a successful list without them then more power to you. I just have found them to be really helpful
I don't think we could run those singletons very effectively without the maps. It's also nice because you don't really need to crack it immediately. I've often played one, and then let it sit 2-4 turns while I do other things with my mana. I do agree that more removal might be nice, but then again removal is dead in some matchups too. I have found the Go For The Throats to be often disappointing. I would change them way before the maps.
I was looking over some cards and was wondering what people's opinions were...
castigate Tougher mana and more expensive, but exiles. Worth it? beckon apparition Early blocker and exiles. cremate Exile and cantrip. reciprocate Weaker path to exile, but seems solid. Titan's presence Works well with our creature package, but is 3 mana too much? transgress the mind Again, discard that exiles instead.
Anyway, my question is...what do people think of the Ascend mechanic for Battle Box? Getting to 10 permanents seems much more likely when you get a free land every turn, so the cards get more powerful automatically in the late game. Too slow, or worth it?
YES. Really agree with you. Especially the part about being tired of powerful generic planeswalkers. I would love to see the Gatewatch go away for a while, and PW'ers in general be less emphasized. But yeah, obviously it's a great cube card. Just represents a lot of things I'm not that excited about for cube and Magic in general.
As for the people who aren't into the counter magic SB plan, any sideboard suggestions? I'm really trying to find a SB I like, but not sure what to use. VegaTDM? Any update on your SB? Thanks!
Quick answer is that the Cunning wish version allows you to toolbox for answers to pretty much anything you need. It's also a bit harder to hate out because you aren't all in on the big fat creature plan. The standard list is a bit more consistent as far as getting the combo and going off, but it suffers from certain match ups due to not having the same answers as the cunning wish version.
Wish version - More answers, bit less consistent.
Standard list - Less answers, bit more consistent.
There's obviously a lot more in depth analysis you can get into, but I think that basically sums it up.
Overall copperline gorge may be worse, but it's certainly not because it doesn't grow Nacatl. If you drop Nacatl turn 1, you are hoping to fetch for foundry on T2, growing your guy to a 3/3. Having Nacatl be a 2/2 on turn 1 is pointless 99% of the time, especially if you have to take 2-3 damage to make him 2/2. Gorge is worse than a shock in 2 specific ways (not fetchable, coming in tapped later), BUT those arguments are somewhat offset due to being able to play green on turn 1. There is never a time when you need white on turn 1, so I think it's not worth it.
As for your win against Bantdrazi, I wasn't saying that the 2 dmg will never be worthwhile. Obviously there will be times when it changes a game's outcome. My point was that I think those cases where it helps you are going to be fewer than the times when it hurts you. I can name quite a few games where I've needed white to win, and I top decked a fetch or foundry...boom, win. I think those instances will be more frequent than the 2 life winning or losing you a game.
As for lightning helix, I love the card, but I think a lot of the fast match-ups are already fairly favorable/even, so I don't know if I would go to 4 in the SB.
castigate Tougher mana and more expensive, but exiles. Worth it?
beckon apparition Early blocker and exiles.
cremate Exile and cantrip.
reciprocate Weaker path to exile, but seems solid.
Titan's presence Works well with our creature package, but is 3 mana too much?
transgress the mind Again, discard that exiles instead.