I am always going to sing the praises of Surrak, the Hunt Caller. He works wonderfully with mono-G big fat fatties. Nice redundancy with the Hall you're already running.
Love it. As tutorable, or more, than Hall of the Bandit Lord and haste is one of the things I want the most in this deck. Now... what to cut. Garruk's Packleader and Zendikar Resurgent are two cards that come to mind as fringe cards/possible cuts.
EDIT: Cut Garruk's Packleader for Surrak, the Hunt Caller and Zendikar Resurgent for Horn of Greed. Horn is a no-brainer... I was just being greedy not to run it (I hate letting opponents draw cards). It will let me draw cards early in the game, and more cards total, than Zendikar Resurgent would.
Dude, Trade Secrets is banned. Follow the value, for only it will take you to the fabled Value Town.
That's a little different, though, as it has the potential to read "you draw your deck and win on the spot, or at least you and an opponent get so far ahead of the rest of the table that it's a miserable experience for the rest." Most symmetrical cards don't have that potential.
Azusa, Lost but Seeking is one of my all-time favorite commanders. I don't like to be subtle, and I don't do table politics well. I accept that those realities are going to lead to a lower overall win rate; I just aim to do as well as I can with the way that I like to play, and generally choose commanders that allow me to play the role of "archenemy" at the table as well as possible.
Azusa is definitely one of those commanders. Her ability allows you to power through an incredible amount of hate. If she gets removed, you've likely already made your extra land drops and you can just recast her next turn and keep on ramping. Admittedly, the M14 rules changes regarding cumulative land drops negatively impacted Azusa pretty strongly, however she still remains an incredibly powerful commander.
With the release of Shadows over Innistrad and Eldritch Moon, I've really wanted to revisit Azusa and include some of the new, powerfulEldrazi. Eventually, I opted to go all-in on Edrazi, given the synergy between some of the staple Azusalands and the addition of the new Eldrazi supportingcast. Is this strictly better than a version featuring old stalwarts such as Avenger of Zendikar, Regal Force, Craterhoof Behemoth, and Worldspine Wurm? Maybe yes, maybe no. I think it has the ability to be at least comparable, if not better. "When cast" triggers are just so good.
If you're not familiar with how an Azusa, Lost but Seeking deck usually functions, it can be thought of in 3 stages:
Strategy
(1) Early game: In an ideal opening hand, you're going to have an accelerant to help you get Azusa into play by turn 2 (Ancient Tomb, Green Sun's Zenith (gets Dryad Arbor), Mana Crypt, Sol Ring, or Birds of Paradise), a bunch of lands, and maybe one creature or draw spell. Your goal is to get Azusa out and start hitting land drops, this quickly pushes you right into the mid game.
(3) Late game: Once this deck reaches 8-10 mana, which it can do in just a few turns, the goal is to snowball mana --> fatties --> cards (Soul of the Harvest, Kozilek, Butcher of Truth, Kozilek, the Great Distortion, Soul's Majesty, Momentous Fall, Greater Good, Garruk, Primal Hunter) --> unrelenting pressure on your opponents. Once you have more mana than the rest of the table combined (not hard to do) and are refilling your hand at the rate of 10 cards per turn and annihilating or exiling your opponents' boards, it can be difficult for the table to stop you.
Decklist
So, without further ado, here's the deck as it currently stands. I'd consider it, maybe, 70-75% "optimized." I'm mostly interested in ways to help ensure that Azusa can hit the table and stick to the table, and in ways to draw cards consistently during the early and mid game. I may include more anti-blue hate if the meta proves it necessary.
Lotus Cobra: Since this deck can reliably make 2-3+ land drops per turn, Cobra can really allow us to accelerate into big plays way early. An early threat will both likely be harder for our opponents to deal with, and will allow our deck to snowball off of draw spells like Soul's Majesty and Garruk, Primal Hunter that require a big creature in play.
Fierce Empath: Lets us go get any big Eldrazi in the deck. Need cards? Go get a Kozilek. Need to remove the opponents' board and start beating face? Go get an Ulamog. We'll often have 3 mana laying around that I don't mind using to toolbox.
Nylea, God of the Hunt: For all the Eldrazi titans' upsides, they don't actually have trample. Trampling over whatever blockers opponents' can assemble is good. Nylea is cheap and difficult to remove. The buff can be nice, too. We often have extra mana laying around that needs to go somewhere.
Oracle of Mul Daya: The most important utility creature in the deck. Oracle lets us keep ripping lands off the top of our decks, functionally serving as a draw spell, and lets us hit 3 additional land drops with Azusa in play or serves as a backup Azusa in an emergency.
Surrak, the Hunt Caller: Haste is super valuable in this deck, and green has precious few ways to provide it. This guy, along with Hall of the Bandit Lord, are the two tutorable ways we have to grant haste to our big beaters, who almost all invariably have some pretty potent "on attack" triggers.
Conduit of Ruin: Tutor and cost reduction on a stick? Don't mind if I do.
Endbringer: A versatile utility creep. Can help us get through opponents' blockers, or draw us multiple cards in a trip around the table.
Bane of Bala Ged: Mini Ulamog 2.0. Super powerful on-attack effect. Fills out the curve very nicely.
World Breaker: Acidic Slime's bigger, better brother. Ability to self-recur is very nice. Card advantage and repeatable removal on another tutorable stick.
Void Winnower: Makes it even harder for opponents to interact with us and disrupt our game plan.
Decimator of the Provinces: This deck's Craterhoof Behemoth. Given that we won't usually have a swarm of creatures on the board, his buff is roughly equivalent as Craterhoof's, and the fact that he's tutorable by Eldrazi triggers and his cost gets reduced by "colorless creature" cost reducers is nice. Yay, synergy.
Kozilek, Butcher of Truth: The better of the two Kozilek's for this deck. Drawing 4 cards on cast is huge. The potential to annihilate 4 on attack is crushing for opponents as well. Hitting for 12 is a nice perk, too
Kozilek, the Great Distortion: Kozilek 2.0 has the possibility to draw us more cards than 1.0, depending on the state of our hand when we cast him. If not, he'll at least refill our hand. Menace makes him hard to block, and his last ability can be useful in protecting our board state in a pinch.
Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger: Ulamog 2.0 is really here for his "when cast" ability. Mono green isn't swimming with removal, and this guy has it all in one tutorable package. He beats face pretty well, too, and can plow through an opponent's deck relatively quickly.
Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre: My personal favorite of the Eldrazi titans. Vindicate on a stick was pretty good until Ulamog 2.0 was released. It's still not bad. Also indestructible, and the annihilator 4 puts a ton of pressure on opponents to deal with him quickly or quickly lose.
Honestly at first I would say always 1.0. I run both in my kozilek deck and jihora decks.
However... 2.0 has done its job quite often. Exiling combo pieces has often times been more valuable then annilating believe it or not. I've taken bragos and karador decks straight out of the game with 2.0, when with 1.0 I would hurt them but in late game they can survive losing a few lands.
Honestly despite having the same names, they should be viewed as entirely different cards. If I had to generalize, maybe 1.0 is better early game and 2.0 is better at end game?
I'd say 1.0 has the every deck needs ability of protecting against being milled and is a giant beater. So maybe that makes it "better?"
As to the last point, if the deck is also running Kozilek, Butcher of Truth (which it very likely is if you're trying to get to 10+ mana and drop fatties), then you've already got an anti-mill / graveyard shuffle effect, which sort of makes 1.0 less valuable?
I've always had this problem - I can barely bring myself to play cards that benefit my opponents at all, even if they benefit me way more. A great example is Horn of Greed in Azusa, Lost but Seeking. It's possibly the most important draw engine in the deck, but I just hate the fact that I'm letting opponents draw cards too. Hate it. I know that in the end it probably increases my chances of winning more that it enhances my opponents' chances of stopping me, but it still just feels wrong.
Anyone else have this problem? Any particular cards that you know are good, but you're hesitant to play as they also help opponents?
Fair 'nuff. At a certain point, though, even in ramp decks, you reach a certain density of ~10 CMC cards that's sufficient and after which point your deck is arguably worse than better. "If ya had to choose..."
Ulamog 2.0's "when cast" ability is obviously as close to "strictly better" than Ulamog 1.0s as possible. However, in terms of turning sideways, I'd almost always rather be Annihilating 4 than making my opponent exile 20 cards from their library. The former is much more crushing to someone's ability to respond to you than the latter, imo.
Also worth considering is that Ulamog 1.0 shuffles back into your deck and can be fetched up and cast much more easily in G than Ulamog 2.0 can be recurred. Now, if you also have B or W in your deck, that might be different, as being able to Karmic Guide Ulamog 2.0 is a pretty big game.
Thanks for the input. In particular, I can't believe I forgot to slot in Grafdigger's Cage. It's one of my favorite cards, and an include in so many of my stax/prison decks. Thanks for the reminder!
you might want
-root maze
-Concordant Crossroads maybe this can add a little more speed to the deck as the idea itself is playing against spellheavy decks.
-loyal retainers otherwise survival seems kinda me - you have no way to gain tempo advantage as you play no ramp like the mana elves wich make survival also stronger. this would open the possibility of cheating something fat into play.
-the mana elves are good with winter orb
-Oath of Nissa
-Thunderfoot Baloth
-grafdigger's cage
The thing I don't like about Root Maze is that it's symmetrical. All of the other "comes into play tapped" effects I have (Blind Obedience, Loxodon Gatekeeper) only hit opponents, making Winter Orb and Static Orbmuch more punishing for opponents than for me.
Re: Concordant Crossroads, I like it in decks like Xengos, the Reveler, where I really want to get into the red zone ASAP and have a lot of critters that benefit from tapping. Here, since I have very few creatures with activated abilities and don't particularly care about playing a racy game, I don't love it as much. Again, if it weren't symmetrical I'd be way more about it.
I love Oath of Nissa in Superfriends decks, but here it seems kinda meh? I mean, it cantrips with enchantresses and lets you dig through the top 3 of your deck. Perhaps that's good enough?
you slow the game down - thus you should play any tempo-payoff cards.
something like captain sisay can get you the cardadvante you lack
add a green legend land to make her more versatile.
There's a lot of tutors I'd like to include to make the deck more toolboxy. Captain Sisay would definitely be at the top of that list. I wonder if she's worth it with only 2 pieces of available tutor hate in the deck (Leonin Arbiter and Aven Mindcensor)?
about nonbos. not having any is like the most card advantage. but i think sol ring and mana crypt are worth it in decks with null rod because when you are not in that exact scenario at having both you get the insane ramp advantage. playing something from the rocks mana and playing stony silence a turn or 2 later is often very good too.
otherwise Emerald Medallion and Pearl Medallion could give a nice ramp to the deck. if thalia and the vryn riders of amethyst enter the deck these will allow your enchantments to be castable as those can be at 4.
i would prefer trinisphere with gaddock to prevent you enchantments from being dead. anyway you have not much cmc1 cards. making your 2 drops slower is ok as your deck is heavy midrange in the average cmc.
It's my understanding (and I believe it's correct) that cards like Thalia, Guardian of Thraben don't push 3CMC cards out of playability with Gaddock Teeg (i.e. they don't functionally "make them cost 4). The card may cost 4 to cast with the taxer in play, but it's CMC is still 3. You may not have been implying otherwise. Trinisphere is a stellar idea, though.
are these really good: (?)
-Magus of the Candelabra
-Ethersworn Canonist - you are low on artifacts yourself so any rockramp heavy list will outrace you unless you have null rod
-Silent Arbiter do you play in a meta where this is needed? if so maybe gaddock is not a good choice to get wins (even if you acomplish to loose friends )
cheers
Magus of the Canelabra is there to untap Gaea's Cradle and/or Serra's Sanctum to allow me to still generate plenty of mana even with Hokori, Dust Drinker or Winter Orb out. I've actually been wanting to add a few more land untappers. I always think of Ethersworn Canonist as an auto-include in hatebears decks, but you may be right that given my particular setup here she's not at her finest. Silent Arbiter is there to slow the game down, but I have so many dorks that could get in for bits of damage here or there that he might very well not merit a slot in the 99.
Thanks for your input, I'm going to have to think about what to cut to make room for some adds. Definitely helpful!
EDIT: I originally omitted Loyal Retainers (which I often run in GW builds like Saffi Eriksdotter) because I really want graveyard hate to be a theme in this deck, and as such want to rely very little if at all on the graveyard myself. I totally agree that Survival of the Fittest is not at its best here, though. I'm so used to it being an "auto-include" in G decks that I just jammed it without thinking too much about it.
Gaddock Teeg has always been one of the most intriguing legends to me, and one of my favorite. I love commanders that have a low mana cost, and for any cost he has a unique and very powerful ability that is definitely worth building around. And I love that his particular ability hoses entire decks and archetypes by itself, and lends itself to building a hatebears deck that hoses many entire decks and archetypes.
I’ve built Gaddock Teeg several times in the past, but I made a point not to reference those old decklists, or any other Teeg decklists, GW decklists, or decklists of any other kind while assembling this one – I wanted it to be as fresh of a take (for me) as I could make it.
Since playing Gaddock Teeg as your commander necessarily limits what cards you’re going to want to include in your own deck. At present, I’ve opted not to run any non-creature cards with cmc >=4 or x in their casting cost. I just don’t like sitting there with cards in hand that are unplayable while my commander is in play, which I want him to be as much as possible.
Following this pattern, I’ve tried to remove as many “nonbos” from the deck as possible. Since I’m running Torpor Orb and Hushwing Gryff, I’m not running any ETB abilities outside of Sun Titan. I think he’s still worth it. Since I’m running Stony Silence and Null Rod, I’m not running any artifacts that require activating (bye-bye mana rocks and Swords of X and Y). Since I’m running Leonin Arbiter and Aven Mindcensor, I’m running far fewer tutors than I would generally run (including fetches). Since I'm running Rest in Peace, I'm running a lot less graveyard recursion than I normally would (only Reveillark and Sun Titan at present. Essentially, I’ve tried to pack the deck full of as many hosers as possible, and build my deck to function without being inhibited by those hosers at all.
Of course, within these limitations, it becomes difficult to accomplish some things. Drawing cards is one of those things, so since enchantments are one card type that I’m not actively hating on and many of the best “hatebears” find their effects duplicated on enchantments, I decided to go with an enchantress package to help supplement draw. One other thing that’s hard to actually do is find a way to win. Since the deck is full of hatebears, I’ve got some ways to pump them to get in for lethal (Mirror Entity, Kamahl, Fist of Krosa, and Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite). The deck can also make a decent amount of mana even with Winter Orb or Hokori, Dust Drinker in play through Gaea’s Cradle and/or Serra’s Sanctum. So, I’ve got Helix Pinnacle in there as a Plan B that synergizes with the rest of the deck.
I’d consider the deck functional but far from optimized at this point – especially the creatures included (or excluded) and the manabase. I think there’s a lot more utility lands I could benefit from. I’d appreciate questions and feedback on the deck overall. It’s a concept I’d like to tune to be as capable as possible.
1/17/17:
-1 Unflinching Courage / +1 Dueling Grounds (moving away from "Aura beats" within the "Enchantress package;" Grounds helps slow the game down)
-1 Thrun, the Last Troll / +1 Static Orb (Thrun was a good Aura carrier, but not great outside of that; Orb really hurts opponents in combination with Blind Obedience-type effects, plus we have ways to untap lands)
-1 Reveillark / +1 Samurai of the Pale Curtain (I want to hate graveyards more, thus adding Samurai and simultaneously pulling the 'Lark)
-1 Spirit Mantle / +1 Mirri's Guile (bye-bye "Aura beats" package; hello card quality)
-1 Rancor / +1 Luminarch Ascension (bye-bye last piece of "Aura beats;" hello slow win con)
1/17/17 2.0:
-1 Silent Arbiter / +1 Grafdigger's Cage (I have tons of creatures to attack with, so Arbiter is out; Cage does everything we want in this deck)
-1 Forest / +1 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx (Nykthos is another amazing card to untap for big mana, while opponents are stuck under an Orb)
-1 Survival of the Fittest / +1 Sol Ring (with no graveyard recursion and hatebears that stop tutoring, Survival isn't at its best; Sol Ring can provide explosive starts, and we'll drop Null Rod or Stony Silence after)
-1 Dueling Grounds / +1 Oath of Nissa (Grounds out with Arbiter; Oath gives us card quality and cantrips with Enchantresses)
-1 Ethersworn Canonist / +1 Sylvan Caryatid (with so few artifacts in the deck, Canonist was not at her best here; Carytid gives a little more early-game acceleration)
Wait, why? Does the 1 more mana of Glimmer of Genius really make that big of a difference (negatively) vs. the sorcery speed of Read the Bones? I must just over-value instant speed.
Fact or Fiction has downsides for both control and combo, especially in edh. The problem is the opponent can choose to dunk your answer or your combo piece.
How so? At worst, they split it 1/4 with the combo piece you need or the control element that prevents them from winning, turning FoF into a glorified Impulse, but it's still absurdly powerful.
2 of your key combo pieces show up in the 5. They separate them into separate piles. You have no good way to recur the one you don't get to keep, and someone nukes your graveyard immediately after. I dunno... just spitballing.
It strikes me as a mediocre outside of an energy deck. It's too bad they didn't give us an energy commander. Read the Bones at instant for four mana ain't bad, but it ain't great either.
See, is Read the Bones good, though? 'Cuz I happen to love that card, too. I might just value scry as a mechanic too highly, overall...
I think at 4 mana in EDH, unless I've managed to cobble together some weird energy deck, I'd rather be casting Fact or Fiction. At three mana, I could be casting Intuition or Forbidden Alchemy if I have a black splash or sticking Rhystic Study on the table. And at half the mana, I can just cast Impulse. In well stocked EDH decks, it's not usually about how much you're drawing as much as it is about WHAT you're drawing.
I think I'm just greedy and like to only run FoF or Intuition in decks where my opponents have no good choices and I functionally get to use all 5/3 cards. At the time of writing this, I was thinking of a deck that has little use for the graveyard and, as such, might value those effects lower than I usually would.
Dig Through Time is really the best Impulse now, though 2 mana to see 7 cards and keep 2. Don't mind if I do...
I'd like to say the card is trash, but the instant speed scry/draw is a fairly rare effect despite the irrelevancy of the energy. Personally, I'd run FoF, Impulse, Preordain, Ponder, Brainstorm, Serum Visions, Rhystic Study, Foresee, or Careful Consideration before I touched it though.
I'm love card filtering/quality cantrips, but Ponder, Preordain, Serum Visions, etc. don't actually give you card advantage. I actually quite like Careful Consideration. I hadn't considered that card carefully enough before
I've been jamming this card in quite a few decks since its release. I'm wondering how people rate it vs. other draw staples at the same mana cost, such as Ambition's Cost / Ancient Craving. I like that it lets you dig up to 4 deep at instant speed. The downside is obviously only being able to draw 2 vs. netting 3 cards. Thoughts?
Would "Thraximundar Plays with Himself" be considered inappropriate by mod/forum standards for the title of a Thraximundar deck that aims to chain extra turns together until the game is won?
I would personally cut the Spirit and add a Filth in there. The evasion is often sorely needed in my experience and the Spirit is often largely irrelevant. Looks pretty stock though.
I'll keep that in mind.
Regarding "stock"-ness... yeah. It's pretty close to Reid Duke's list, with splashes of Shawn Riggins' and Relico Fererro's ideas thrown in. I pretty much just got my guidance from the new primer in the Legacy forum and went from there. Hopefully playtesting will help me figure out how to personalize it for myself.
Love it. As tutorable, or more, than Hall of the Bandit Lord and haste is one of the things I want the most in this deck. Now... what to cut. Garruk's Packleader and Zendikar Resurgent are two cards that come to mind as fringe cards/possible cuts.
EDIT: Cut Garruk's Packleader for Surrak, the Hunt Caller and Zendikar Resurgent for Horn of Greed. Horn is a no-brainer... I was just being greedy not to run it (I hate letting opponents draw cards). It will let me draw cards early in the game, and more cards total, than Zendikar Resurgent would.
That's a little different, though, as it has the potential to read "you draw your deck and win on the spot, or at least you and an opponent get so far ahead of the rest of the table that it's a miserable experience for the rest." Most symmetrical cards don't have that potential.
Azusa is definitely one of those commanders. Her ability allows you to power through an incredible amount of hate. If she gets removed, you've likely already made your extra land drops and you can just recast her next turn and keep on ramping. Admittedly, the M14 rules changes regarding cumulative land drops negatively impacted Azusa pretty strongly, however she still remains an incredibly powerful commander.
With the release of Shadows over Innistrad and Eldritch Moon, I've really wanted to revisit Azusa and include some of the new, powerful Eldrazi. Eventually, I opted to go all-in on Edrazi, given the synergy between some of the staple Azusa lands and the addition of the new Eldrazi supporting cast. Is this strictly better than a version featuring old stalwarts such as Avenger of Zendikar, Regal Force, Craterhoof Behemoth, and Worldspine Wurm? Maybe yes, maybe no. I think it has the ability to be at least comparable, if not better. "When cast" triggers are just so good.
If you're not familiar with how an Azusa, Lost but Seeking deck usually functions, it can be thought of in 3 stages:
Strategy
(1) Early game: In an ideal opening hand, you're going to have an accelerant to help you get Azusa into play by turn 2 (Ancient Tomb, Green Sun's Zenith (gets Dryad Arbor), Mana Crypt, Sol Ring, or Birds of Paradise), a bunch of lands, and maybe one creature or draw spell. Your goal is to get Azusa out and start hitting land drops, this quickly pushes you right into the mid game.
(2) Mid game: At this point, you're going to need gas to keep your land drops rolling. Life from the Loam, Horn of Greed, Journey of Discovery, Harmonize, Seek the Horizon, Seer's Sundial, Mind's Eye, Crucible of Worlds + a fetch land, and Oracle of Mul Daya can keep you going here. You want to push into the 8+ mana range ASAP so that you can start dropping fatties that synergize with your late game.
(3) Late game: Once this deck reaches 8-10 mana, which it can do in just a few turns, the goal is to snowball mana --> fatties --> cards (Soul of the Harvest, Kozilek, Butcher of Truth, Kozilek, the Great Distortion, Soul's Majesty, Momentous Fall, Greater Good, Garruk, Primal Hunter) --> unrelenting pressure on your opponents. Once you have more mana than the rest of the table combined (not hard to do) and are refilling your hand at the rate of 10 cards per turn and annihilating or exiling your opponents' boards, it can be difficult for the table to stop you.
Decklist
So, without further ado, here's the deck as it currently stands. I'd consider it, maybe, 70-75% "optimized." I'm mostly interested in ways to help ensure that Azusa can hit the table and stick to the table, and in ways to draw cards consistently during the early and mid game. I may include more anti-blue hate if the meta proves it necessary.
1 Azusa, Lost but Seeking
//Creature (18)
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Lotus Cobra
1 Fierce Empath
1 Nylea, God of the Hunt
1 Oracle of Mul Daya
1 Surrak, the Hunt Caller
1 Conduit of Ruin
1 Endbringer
1 Kamahl, Fist of Krosa
1 Soul of the Harvest
1 Oblivion Sower
1 Bane of Bala Ged
1 World Breaker
1 Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger
1 Void Winnower
1 Decimator of the Provinces
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Kozilek, the Great Distortion
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
//Instant (5)
1 Crop Rotation
1 Worldly Tutor
1 Chord of Calling
1 Realms Uncharted
1 Momentous Fall
1 Green Sun’s Zenith
1 Life from the Loam
1 Genesis Wave
1 Journey of Discovery
1 Harmonize
1 Reap and Sow
1 Seek the Horizon
1 Soul’s Majesty
1 Boundless Realms
1 Tooth and Nail
//Artifact (7)
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sensei’s Divining Top
1 Sol Ring
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Horn of Greed
1 Seer’s Sundial
1 Mind’s Eye
1 Akroma’s Memorial
//Enchantment (4)
1 Evolutionary Leap
1 Sylvan Library
1 Emrakul’s Influence
1 Greater Good
//Planeswalker (1)
1 Garruk, Primal Hunter
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Eldrazi Temple
1 Eye of Ugin
30 Forest
1 Gaea’s Cradle
1 Hall of the Bandit Lord
1 High Market
1 Homeward Path
1 Miren, the Moaning Well
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Reliquary Tower
1 Sanctum of Ugin
1 Shrine of the Forsaken Gods
1 Strip Mine
1 Temple of the False God
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Wasteland
1 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
Card Explanations (work in progress)
Creatures
Lotus Cobra: Since this deck can reliably make 2-3+ land drops per turn, Cobra can really allow us to accelerate into big plays way early. An early threat will both likely be harder for our opponents to deal with, and will allow our deck to snowball off of draw spells like Soul's Majesty and Garruk, Primal Hunter that require a big creature in play.
Fierce Empath: Lets us go get any big Eldrazi in the deck. Need cards? Go get a Kozilek. Need to remove the opponents' board and start beating face? Go get an Ulamog. We'll often have 3 mana laying around that I don't mind using to toolbox.
Nylea, God of the Hunt: For all the Eldrazi titans' upsides, they don't actually have trample. Trampling over whatever blockers opponents' can assemble is good. Nylea is cheap and difficult to remove. The buff can be nice, too. We often have extra mana laying around that needs to go somewhere.
Oracle of Mul Daya: The most important utility creature in the deck. Oracle lets us keep ripping lands off the top of our decks, functionally serving as a draw spell, and lets us hit 3 additional land drops with Azusa in play or serves as a backup Azusa in an emergency.
Surrak, the Hunt Caller: Haste is super valuable in this deck, and green has precious few ways to provide it. This guy, along with Hall of the Bandit Lord, are the two tutorable ways we have to grant haste to our big beaters, who almost all invariably have some pretty potent "on attack" triggers.
Conduit of Ruin: Tutor and cost reduction on a stick? Don't mind if I do.
Endbringer: A versatile utility creep. Can help us get through opponents' blockers, or draw us multiple cards in a trip around the table.
Kamahl, Fist of Krosa: Overrun on a tutorable stick, and a nice wrath-deterrent.
Soul of the Harvest: A well-costed creature, with trample, and a tutorable source of continuous draw. A very solid member of the crew.
Oblivion Sower: Ramp on a nice-sized beat stick.
Bane of Bala Ged: Mini Ulamog 2.0. Super powerful on-attack effect. Fills out the curve very nicely.
World Breaker: Acidic Slime's bigger, better brother. Ability to self-recur is very nice. Card advantage and repeatable removal on another tutorable stick.
Void Winnower: Makes it even harder for opponents to interact with us and disrupt our game plan.
Decimator of the Provinces: This deck's Craterhoof Behemoth. Given that we won't usually have a swarm of creatures on the board, his buff is roughly equivalent as Craterhoof's, and the fact that he's tutorable by Eldrazi triggers and his cost gets reduced by "colorless creature" cost reducers is nice. Yay, synergy.
Kozilek, Butcher of Truth: The better of the two Kozilek's for this deck. Drawing 4 cards on cast is huge. The potential to annihilate 4 on attack is crushing for opponents as well. Hitting for 12 is a nice perk, too
Kozilek, the Great Distortion: Kozilek 2.0 has the possibility to draw us more cards than 1.0, depending on the state of our hand when we cast him. If not, he'll at least refill our hand. Menace makes him hard to block, and his last ability can be useful in protecting our board state in a pinch.
Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger: Ulamog 2.0 is really here for his "when cast" ability. Mono green isn't swimming with removal, and this guy has it all in one tutorable package. He beats face pretty well, too, and can plow through an opponent's deck relatively quickly.
Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre: My personal favorite of the Eldrazi titans. Vindicate on a stick was pretty good until Ulamog 2.0 was released. It's still not bad. Also indestructible, and the annihilator 4 puts a ton of pressure on opponents to deal with him quickly or quickly lose.
As to the last point, if the deck is also running Kozilek, Butcher of Truth (which it very likely is if you're trying to get to 10+ mana and drop fatties), then you've already got an anti-mill / graveyard shuffle effect, which sort of makes 1.0 less valuable?
I've always had this problem - I can barely bring myself to play cards that benefit my opponents at all, even if they benefit me way more. A great example is Horn of Greed in Azusa, Lost but Seeking. It's possibly the most important draw engine in the deck, but I just hate the fact that I'm letting opponents draw cards too. Hate it. I know that in the end it probably increases my chances of winning more that it enhances my opponents' chances of stopping me, but it still just feels wrong.
Anyone else have this problem? Any particular cards that you know are good, but you're hesitant to play as they also help opponents?
Fair 'nuff. At a certain point, though, even in ramp decks, you reach a certain density of ~10 CMC cards that's sufficient and after which point your deck is arguably worse than better. "If ya had to choose..."
I searched and did not find; apologies if I overlooked. But I want to have a discussion about Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre vs. Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger as one of the 99 in the role of a beater/finisher.
Ulamog 2.0's "when cast" ability is obviously as close to "strictly better" than Ulamog 1.0s as possible. However, in terms of turning sideways, I'd almost always rather be Annihilating 4 than making my opponent exile 20 cards from their library. The former is much more crushing to someone's ability to respond to you than the latter, imo.
Also worth considering is that Ulamog 1.0 shuffles back into your deck and can be fetched up and cast much more easily in G than Ulamog 2.0 can be recurred. Now, if you also have B or W in your deck, that might be different, as being able to Karmic Guide Ulamog 2.0 is a pretty big game.
Thoughts appreciated.
The thing I don't like about Root Maze is that it's symmetrical. All of the other "comes into play tapped" effects I have (Blind Obedience, Loxodon Gatekeeper) only hit opponents, making Winter Orb and Static Orb much more punishing for opponents than for me.
Re: Concordant Crossroads, I like it in decks like Xengos, the Reveler, where I really want to get into the red zone ASAP and have a lot of critters that benefit from tapping. Here, since I have very few creatures with activated abilities and don't particularly care about playing a racy game, I don't love it as much. Again, if it weren't symmetrical I'd be way more about it.
I love Oath of Nissa in Superfriends decks, but here it seems kinda meh? I mean, it cantrips with enchantresses and lets you dig through the top 3 of your deck. Perhaps that's good enough?
There's a lot of tutors I'd like to include to make the deck more toolboxy. Captain Sisay would definitely be at the top of that list. I wonder if she's worth it with only 2 pieces of available tutor hate in the deck (Leonin Arbiter and Aven Mindcensor)?
It's my understanding (and I believe it's correct) that cards like Thalia, Guardian of Thraben don't push 3CMC cards out of playability with Gaddock Teeg (i.e. they don't functionally "make them cost 4). The card may cost 4 to cast with the taxer in play, but it's CMC is still 3. You may not have been implying otherwise. Trinisphere is a stellar idea, though.
Magus of the Canelabra is there to untap Gaea's Cradle and/or Serra's Sanctum to allow me to still generate plenty of mana even with Hokori, Dust Drinker or Winter Orb out. I've actually been wanting to add a few more land untappers. I always think of Ethersworn Canonist as an auto-include in hatebears decks, but you may be right that given my particular setup here she's not at her finest. Silent Arbiter is there to slow the game down, but I have so many dorks that could get in for bits of damage here or there that he might very well not merit a slot in the 99.
Thanks for your input, I'm going to have to think about what to cut to make room for some adds. Definitely helpful!
EDIT: I originally omitted Loyal Retainers (which I often run in GW builds like Saffi Eriksdotter) because I really want graveyard hate to be a theme in this deck, and as such want to rely very little if at all on the graveyard myself. I totally agree that Survival of the Fittest is not at its best here, though. I'm so used to it being an "auto-include" in G decks that I just jammed it without thinking too much about it.
I’ve built Gaddock Teeg several times in the past, but I made a point not to reference those old decklists, or any other Teeg decklists, GW decklists, or decklists of any other kind while assembling this one – I wanted it to be as fresh of a take (for me) as I could make it.
Since playing Gaddock Teeg as your commander necessarily limits what cards you’re going to want to include in your own deck. At present, I’ve opted not to run any non-creature cards with cmc >=4 or x in their casting cost. I just don’t like sitting there with cards in hand that are unplayable while my commander is in play, which I want him to be as much as possible.
Following this pattern, I’ve tried to remove as many “nonbos” from the deck as possible. Since I’m running Torpor Orb and Hushwing Gryff, I’m not running any ETB abilities outside of Sun Titan. I think he’s still worth it. Since I’m running Stony Silence and Null Rod, I’m not running any artifacts that require activating (bye-bye mana rocks and Swords of X and Y). Since I’m running Leonin Arbiter and Aven Mindcensor, I’m running far fewer tutors than I would generally run (including fetches). Since I'm running Rest in Peace, I'm running a lot less graveyard recursion than I normally would (only Reveillark and Sun Titan at present. Essentially, I’ve tried to pack the deck full of as many hosers as possible, and build my deck to function without being inhibited by those hosers at all.
Of course, within these limitations, it becomes difficult to accomplish some things. Drawing cards is one of those things, so since enchantments are one card type that I’m not actively hating on and many of the best “hatebears” find their effects duplicated on enchantments, I decided to go with an enchantress package to help supplement draw. One other thing that’s hard to actually do is find a way to win. Since the deck is full of hatebears, I’ve got some ways to pump them to get in for lethal (Mirror Entity, Kamahl, Fist of Krosa, and Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite). The deck can also make a decent amount of mana even with Winter Orb or Hokori, Dust Drinker in play through Gaea’s Cradle and/or Serra’s Sanctum. So, I’ve got Helix Pinnacle in there as a Plan B that synergizes with the rest of the deck.
I’d consider the deck functional but far from optimized at this point – especially the creatures included (or excluded) and the manabase. I think there’s a lot more utility lands I could benefit from. I’d appreciate questions and feedback on the deck overall. It’s a concept I’d like to tune to be as capable as possible.
1 Gaddock Teeg
//Creature (37)
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Dryad Militant
1 Magus of the Candelabra
1 Argothian Enchantress
1 Containment Priest
1 Grand Abolisher
1 Kataki, War’s Wage
1 Leonin Arbiter
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Samurai of the Pale Curtain
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Spirit of the Labyrinth
1 Sylvan Caryatid
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Dauntless Escort
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
1 Hushwing Gryff
1 Mentor of the Meek
1 Mesa Enchantress
1 Mirror Entity
1 Sanctum Prelate
1 Verduran Enchantress
1 Eidolon of Blossoms
1 Hokori, Dust Drinker
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
1 Loxodon Gatekeeper
1 Nylea, God of the Hunt
1 Oracle of Mul Daya
1 Karametra, God of Harvests
1 Seedborn Muse
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Kamahl, Fist of Krosa
1 Dragonlord Dromoka
1 Sun Titan
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Nature’s Claim
1 Path to Exile
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Eladamri's Call
1 Hallowed Moonlight
//Artifact (6)
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Sol Ring
1 Null Rod
1 Torpor Orb
1 Winter Orb
1 Static Orb
//Enchantment (14)
1 Carpet of Flowers
1 Exploration
1 Helix Pinnacle
1 Mirri's Guile
1 Oath of Nissa
1 Blind Obedience
1 Luminarch Ascension
1 Rest in Peace
1 Sterling Grove
1 Stony Silence
1 Suppression Field
1 Sylvan Library
1 Aura of Silence
1 Enchantress’s Presence
1 Rule of Law
1 Brushland
1 Eiganjo Castle
12 Forest
1 Gaea’s Cradle
1 Kor Haven
1 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
14 Plains
1 Razorverge Thicket
1 Serra’s Sanctum
1 Sunpetal Grove
1 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Bastion
1 Bloom Tender
1 Sylvan Caryatid
1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Voyaging Satyr
1 Glowrider
1 Vryn Wingmare
1 Argothian Elder
1 Void Winnower
1 Thorn of Amethyst
1/17/17:
-1 Unflinching Courage / +1 Dueling Grounds (moving away from "Aura beats" within the "Enchantress package;" Grounds helps slow the game down)
-1 Thrun, the Last Troll / +1 Static Orb (Thrun was a good Aura carrier, but not great outside of that; Orb really hurts opponents in combination with Blind Obedience-type effects, plus we have ways to untap lands)
-1 Reveillark / +1 Samurai of the Pale Curtain (I want to hate graveyards more, thus adding Samurai and simultaneously pulling the 'Lark)
-1 Spirit Mantle / +1 Mirri's Guile (bye-bye "Aura beats" package; hello card quality)
-1 Rancor / +1 Luminarch Ascension (bye-bye last piece of "Aura beats;" hello slow win con)
1/17/17 2.0:
-1 Silent Arbiter / +1 Grafdigger's Cage (I have tons of creatures to attack with, so Arbiter is out; Cage does everything we want in this deck)
-1 Forest / +1 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx (Nykthos is another amazing card to untap for big mana, while opponents are stuck under an Orb)
-1 Survival of the Fittest / +1 Sol Ring (with no graveyard recursion and hatebears that stop tutoring, Survival isn't at its best; Sol Ring can provide explosive starts, and we'll drop Null Rod or Stony Silence after)
-1 Dueling Grounds / +1 Oath of Nissa (Grounds out with Arbiter; Oath gives us card quality and cantrips with Enchantresses)
-1 Ethersworn Canonist / +1 Sylvan Caryatid (with so few artifacts in the deck, Canonist was not at her best here; Carytid gives a little more early-game acceleration)
Wait, why? Does the 1 more mana of Glimmer of Genius really make that big of a difference (negatively) vs. the sorcery speed of Read the Bones? I must just over-value instant speed.
2 of your key combo pieces show up in the 5. They separate them into separate piles. You have no good way to recur the one you don't get to keep, and someone nukes your graveyard immediately after. I dunno... just spitballing.
See, is Read the Bones good, though? 'Cuz I happen to love that card, too. I might just value scry as a mechanic too highly, overall...
I think I'm just greedy and like to only run FoF or Intuition in decks where my opponents have no good choices and I functionally get to use all 5/3 cards. At the time of writing this, I was thinking of a deck that has little use for the graveyard and, as such, might value those effects lower than I usually would.
Dig Through Time is really the best Impulse now, though 2 mana to see 7 cards and keep 2. Don't mind if I do...
I'm love card filtering/quality cantrips, but Ponder, Preordain, Serum Visions, etc. don't actually give you card advantage. I actually quite like Careful Consideration. I hadn't considered that card carefully enough before
I've been jamming this card in quite a few decks since its release. I'm wondering how people rate it vs. other draw staples at the same mana cost, such as Ambition's Cost / Ancient Craving. I like that it lets you dig up to 4 deep at instant speed. The downside is obviously only being able to draw 2 vs. netting 3 cards. Thoughts?