I find it encouraging that "Sam Black's neat idea" is essentially still the event deck refined. The only main deck card not from Ultimate Sacrifice is Bloodsoaked Champion, and its a fine addition. I don't know that I agree with 4 Evolutionary Leap though. You never need two on the board, it's not like it stacks like X Ascendancy. Is enchantment hate so prevalent to justify running 4?
I'm liking murderous cut over splinters or charm, though I'm pretty against abzan charm or ascendancy in this deck
Could you elaborate? I have some concern about running out of cards to delve, especially if I am either a) sacrificing scions or b) recurring stuff from my graveyard that I don't want to delve away
Thanks man, I caught up greatly with Sloan's play by play of his GB deck.
I am at a loss as to why I don't own 4 CC by now, as I needed them to replace my old birthing pods in my modern deck. Also agreed on lack of "punch"... Last week was my first outing with the "double event deck" build, and I felt that I was just putting out dudes to sacrifice dudes with fairly lukewarm results.
Thoughts? Seems pretty basic to me. Maybe that's where we should be, or at least start from?
A a proponent of the BG build, I'm happy that there is at least a small showing of the deck.
Here's a question, why not use something like Titanic Growth or Become Immense to speed things up? Either one of those greatly increases the relevance of the scions.
New to the thread, someone please give me the TL;DR version as it applies to Golgari Aristocrats?
I haven't played for about a month, and was completely clueless as to how BFZ even played, so I bought the event deck. "OMG, look at this value" So I bought a second event deck, and shoved the two together in some form of 75 cards. It did "OK" at FNM this weekend, going 2-2. Yet that was 2 wins against home brews, and two losses against well tuned decks full of money cards.
I lack a playtest group at the moment, any insight would be of course appreciated.
Yes, there are a lot of bounce affects. But... Bounce kind of equals fog plus a time walk, especially if they can't re-cast everything in their second main. I did have some side board stuff, mainly a handful of unexpected creatures. The idea is game two, the opponent side boards out their creature hate. Super fun, I get one more FNM with the deck, then I have to start building for rotation...
So I took a break during RTR and Theros block. If I hadn't, I think I would have taken my turbo fog from Scars-Innistrad and used Maze's end, for sure. Now with two weeks left, not sure if I want to go find tthe land cards, and wonder what if any negative affect it would have on my mana base.
Speaking of Gary. My first night back at FNM was about a month ago, using a borrowed mono black devotion deck. I was playing against a maze's end deck. Game one, I happened to exile the top card of his deck, which was a guild gate. As my opponent was playing exactly 10 gates, I broke his only win condition. Game two, I sided in pithing needle, named maze's end, and again shut him down.
I say that to say this; if I were to go grab 2-4 maze's ends for this week, I would either grab 20 gates to make sure the maze was a win con, or leave it at exactly 10 and rely on milling in case the maze gets busted. As far as burn, the two stores I play at locally (same city) have a lot of it. Rabble Red, Boros, and Izzet are fairly prominent trouble makers that I think would require at least 8 counter spells.
And truth about psychic spiral though. By the time I've done the spiral twice, my deck is thin enough that I almost always draw good stuff and very few lands. Dunno if this deck will survive rotation at all...
Thanks for the comments. While this particular build is pretty new to me, I did play turbo fog before, in Scars-Innistrad standard. Back then I had four fog effects plus snapcaster mage, which was fogs for days. Win con was Jace and Increasing Confusion.
Counter magic, then and now, also helps against red burn and black life loss. The extra scry of the dissolve helps make sure my draws are set up, because if I run out of fogs, I am dead quicker. (Judging by my record I was dead most of the time anyway, ha!) I could see ditching the countermand for negate, and the caryatids for defend the hearth. I just don't see running less counter magic, I need to get rid of things that are not fog-able.
The cyclonic rift I would tend to defend as it hits planeswalkers and enchantments, both which fogs do nothing against. I do wish I started fooling with this earlier, because I'm not really going to have the time to test and tune the list before rotation, and I don't play MTGO. That said, the bounce effects do seem fog-like. Even if they play out some or most of their board in the second main, setting them back one turn is about exactly what a fog does, correct me if I'm wrong. Thanks for the tip on supreme verdict though, it looks like I might try to find a way to get that into the deck somehow.
I took the following deck to FNM last night with results of 0-3-1. I do have to say every game was fun, and at least a few of my losses can be attributed to poor mulligan choices, or lack thereof. Basically I wanted to play Cyclonic Rift before it rotated out. Here's my jank, no real sideboard to speak of:
The only win condition whatsoever is a combination of psychic spiral and Jace. Aetherize could very well be Aetherspouts with similar effect. The extra scry effects are really a must because this deck needs the fog and bounce engine to be operational, or even survive. Early game you definitely let at least the first 5-6 damage get through and don't waste your fog effects. If the other guy is playing loads of creatures, Riot Control for the fog plus life gain is great, with the next turn bouncing their attackers. The bounce not only acts like a fog for that turn, but if sequenced right, protects you the following turn. Likely the most fun I had with this was against a mono-green ramp deck, who went all tapped out for hydras and a monstrous Polukranos. We were already drawing three cards per turn thanks to two Dictates, and an Aetherize left him with 18 cards in hand, which he had to discard. It's because of this interaction that I was liking Aetherize versus spouts. Worst loss was against a Rakdos deck who hit all four of my dictates with a slaughter games.
I have every intention of playing this for the next two weeks before rotation. Suggestions, comments, rage hate on turbo fog in general?
Psychic Strike and Grisly Spectacle were both fairly demoralizing to the opponent, while softening up their library for the kill. Spectacle may seem pricey, but if you think about it, even if you can't play until later than turn 4 waiting for double black, chances are the card becomes that much stronger against a larger creature.
Soul Ransom is a great version of mind control. Even if the opponent enables the sacrifice clause right away, what you've got is creature removal plus two cards. Wish I had more of these.
The two cipher cards, Call of the Nightwing and Paranoid Delusions, are meant to be attached to evasive creatures. If the nightwing tokens keep coming, the trigger the mill effect of the Sage's Row Denzien.
The one card that was a great bomb at the kitchen table is the consuming abberration. I am told he is completely not playable in standard. I only happen to have one of them, but the hope of course is he comes out big and gets bigger.
Overall I am excited to give this a free run in the real world. I might get run over but that's part of the learning curve. If I even do halfway well, I may see about doing some trades to solidify the weak parts here.
Hey guys. Like the OP, I am newly returning to magic, and looking to make a milling deck. I see it's nowhere to be found, so understandably there must be a reason. Either mill is just plain not viable, or someone hasn't figured it out yet. I am going to share what I built today. I am trying to do something with the milling, for example creatures that get bigger with graveyards. Also as a disclaimer, this deck is built with what I had on hand. That said I am wide open to critiques, just realize I don't have a 4-of playset of every card in standard! Also, I don't have a proper sideboard due to me not being familiar with the current meta. I am also going to try and FNM this deck next week, hoping that the "non-playable" cards here will catch people by surprise. If I do that, I will post results.
My FNM is real tough. We have a few Grand Prix level players, and that causes a lot of the regular crowd to build really good decks as well. I would say half of the non-competitive players are running competitive level decks. So for me, when a home brew does extremely well in the play group, I tend to still get squashed at FNM!
I find it encouraging that "Sam Black's neat idea" is essentially still the event deck refined. The only main deck card not from Ultimate Sacrifice is Bloodsoaked Champion, and its a fine addition. I don't know that I agree with 4 Evolutionary Leap though. You never need two on the board, it's not like it stacks like X Ascendancy. Is enchantment hate so prevalent to justify running 4?
Could you elaborate? I have some concern about running out of cards to delve, especially if I am either a) sacrificing scions or b) recurring stuff from my graveyard that I don't want to delve away
Toying with bone splinters, I think it has enough collateral effects with other cards to be interesting.
Thanks man, I caught up greatly with Sloan's play by play of his GB deck.
I am at a loss as to why I don't own 4 CC by now, as I needed them to replace my old birthing pods in my modern deck. Also agreed on lack of "punch"... Last week was my first outing with the "double event deck" build, and I felt that I was just putting out dudes to sacrifice dudes with fairly lukewarm results.
A a proponent of the BG build, I'm happy that there is at least a small showing of the deck.
Here's a question, why not use something like Titanic Growth or Become Immense to speed things up? Either one of those greatly increases the relevance of the scions.
I haven't played for about a month, and was completely clueless as to how BFZ even played, so I bought the event deck. "OMG, look at this value" So I bought a second event deck, and shoved the two together in some form of 75 cards. It did "OK" at FNM this weekend, going 2-2. Yet that was 2 wins against home brews, and two losses against well tuned decks full of money cards.
I lack a playtest group at the moment, any insight would be of course appreciated.
4 Dictate of Kruphix
3 Psychic Spiral
4 Aetherspouts
4 Aetherize
4 Cyclonic Rift
4 Fog
4 Riot Control
3 Countermand
3 Dissolve
3 Temple of Mystery
2 Temple of Plenty
8 Island
4 Forest
4 Plains
Yes, there are a lot of bounce affects. But... Bounce kind of equals fog plus a time walk, especially if they can't re-cast everything in their second main. I did have some side board stuff, mainly a handful of unexpected creatures. The idea is game two, the opponent side boards out their creature hate. Super fun, I get one more FNM with the deck, then I have to start building for rotation...
Speaking of Gary. My first night back at FNM was about a month ago, using a borrowed mono black devotion deck. I was playing against a maze's end deck. Game one, I happened to exile the top card of his deck, which was a guild gate. As my opponent was playing exactly 10 gates, I broke his only win condition. Game two, I sided in pithing needle, named maze's end, and again shut him down.
I say that to say this; if I were to go grab 2-4 maze's ends for this week, I would either grab 20 gates to make sure the maze was a win con, or leave it at exactly 10 and rely on milling in case the maze gets busted. As far as burn, the two stores I play at locally (same city) have a lot of it. Rabble Red, Boros, and Izzet are fairly prominent trouble makers that I think would require at least 8 counter spells.
And truth about psychic spiral though. By the time I've done the spiral twice, my deck is thin enough that I almost always draw good stuff and very few lands. Dunno if this deck will survive rotation at all...
Counter magic, then and now, also helps against red burn and black life loss. The extra scry of the dissolve helps make sure my draws are set up, because if I run out of fogs, I am dead quicker. (Judging by my record I was dead most of the time anyway, ha!) I could see ditching the countermand for negate, and the caryatids for defend the hearth. I just don't see running less counter magic, I need to get rid of things that are not fog-able.
The cyclonic rift I would tend to defend as it hits planeswalkers and enchantments, both which fogs do nothing against. I do wish I started fooling with this earlier, because I'm not really going to have the time to test and tune the list before rotation, and I don't play MTGO. That said, the bounce effects do seem fog-like. Even if they play out some or most of their board in the second main, setting them back one turn is about exactly what a fog does, correct me if I'm wrong. Thanks for the tip on supreme verdict though, it looks like I might try to find a way to get that into the deck somehow.
4 Sylvan Caryatid
4 Dictate of Kruphix
3 Psychic Spiral
4 Aetherize
4 Cyclonic Rift
4 Fog
4 Riot Control
3 Countermand
3 Dissolve
3 Temple of Mystery
2 Temple of Plenty
8 Island
4 Forest
4 Plains
The only win condition whatsoever is a combination of psychic spiral and Jace. Aetherize could very well be Aetherspouts with similar effect. The extra scry effects are really a must because this deck needs the fog and bounce engine to be operational, or even survive. Early game you definitely let at least the first 5-6 damage get through and don't waste your fog effects. If the other guy is playing loads of creatures, Riot Control for the fog plus life gain is great, with the next turn bouncing their attackers. The bounce not only acts like a fog for that turn, but if sequenced right, protects you the following turn. Likely the most fun I had with this was against a mono-green ramp deck, who went all tapped out for hydras and a monstrous Polukranos. We were already drawing three cards per turn thanks to two Dictates, and an Aetherize left him with 18 cards in hand, which he had to discard. It's because of this interaction that I was liking Aetherize versus spouts. Worst loss was against a Rakdos deck who hit all four of my dictates with a slaughter games.
I have every intention of playing this for the next two weeks before rotation. Suggestions, comments, rage hate on turbo fog in general?
Psychic Strike and Grisly Spectacle were both fairly demoralizing to the opponent, while softening up their library for the kill. Spectacle may seem pricey, but if you think about it, even if you can't play until later than turn 4 waiting for double black, chances are the card becomes that much stronger against a larger creature.
Soul Ransom is a great version of mind control. Even if the opponent enables the sacrifice clause right away, what you've got is creature removal plus two cards. Wish I had more of these.
The two cipher cards, Call of the Nightwing and Paranoid Delusions, are meant to be attached to evasive creatures. If the nightwing tokens keep coming, the trigger the mill effect of the Sage's Row Denzien.
The one card that was a great bomb at the kitchen table is the consuming abberration. I am told he is completely not playable in standard. I only happen to have one of them, but the hope of course is he comes out big and gets bigger.
Overall I am excited to give this a free run in the real world. I might get run over but that's part of the learning curve. If I even do halfway well, I may see about doing some trades to solidify the weak parts here.
1x Consuming Aberration
3x Balustrade Spy
3x Deathcult Rogue
4x Sage's Row Denzien
1x Duskmantle Guildmage
2x Wight of Precinct Six
1x Coerced Confession
1x Call of the Nightwing
3x Paranoid Delusions
1x Thoughtseize
2x Tomescour
3x Grisly Spectacle
4x Psychic Strike
2x Beckon Apparition