Curious if anyone has seen any decent coverage of Modern Faeries in action since the bitterblossom unban, or this is something that we'll have to wait until the 12th for.
Regardless of the power level (which is debatable), the price (on eBay) is already tanking. From $40 down to around $20 to $25. It's clear the vendors overestimated the demand (and supply) of this card and are now trying to get rid of them as fast as they can.
I have one from my Mind Seize deck and am debating if I want a second or not.
I picked up 3 (well, Baleful strix, sol ring and command tower are part of the reason I even wanted 3) and I feel comfortable keeping 3. Is it going to go up in price? I really doubt it, look at this print run.
Anger will kill the elementals, but not the Master of Waves himself. Also leaves Frostburn Weird, and a Judge's Familiar may even slow you down a turn. Threats increase if Mutavault is in play receiving bonuses from the Master as well.
Not disregarding your points on selesnya; knocking out voice, lion, centaur tokens, all 1-drops, and caryatids with a good chance to 2 for 1 is solid.
That being said, I am a big fan of the increased creature count. I posted my list and some methods for fixing mana near the bottom of pg. 96 (just before the 3 page argument...) It focused on a large count of 1-of creatures in the side to hedge matchups in our favor, and blank expected removal at the same time.
Here is the Excel doc that I used to choose my mana.
Uh what? Why isn't Master of Waves dying from anger? Did I miss something?
Took a bunch of games tonight, pretty much housed anything I ran into. Don't have a battle report other than this deck is a nightmare for aggro and after game 1 control hates it. 2-0'd all night.
Okay, so, this seems to be a lot different from the lists popping up around here. Much like some of you I was pretty tired of seeing the same lists and the same reasonings. Originally I had dismissed Desecration Demon but I want a creature to curve into from Reckoner and something to curve afterwards into one of the many 5 drop bombs that we have at our disposal.
First thing, this creature count feels SOLID. A lot of the creature counts on these lists were around the 12-13 area, I feel really good against control with this creature count, and I feel even better against aggro. After seeing so many lists that looked too control-ish and conservative, I started testing, and testing *A LOT* probably almost 24 hours of real time testing in the last week. I kept thinking, "this is too much right?" But every time I ripped another creature it felt right. Desecration demon does have its fair share of "ehhh" moments, but when it needs to be a pain in the ass it really is nice.
4 Anger main. This is solid. This does good work against selesnya and it does something else against control and mono blue, it kills neightveil specter and a certain master of waves (there's a reason you dont see mortars in here as well as anger.) Against mono red, well, you know what it does there. Oh, and it exiles voice? Yes, I am going to continue to treat this card as slagstorm and play 4 of them.
Chained to the rocks, not much enchantment hate going around unless your opponent thinks your playing D-Sphere, added bonus in g2 when you don't play it in g1, or it just baits the singleton while you set up a Whip.
3 Stormbreath Dragons, this card was a lot of "2 of" in lists, but I want more of them. At worst against aggro it can trade, at best it perma blocks a white creature. Card is obviously good at responding to a planeswalker as well on the control match. I really like 3 here.
2 Sin Collector. Against Aggro I can bring in Lifebane Zombies, against Red decks I catch myself leaving it in to get rid of a reach spell mid game and just take a hit and die. Sometimes against red I can trade with it and take a spell out of their hand and I am perfectly okay with this interaction. Obviously great against control.
Anyway, this deck is currently undefeated on paper out of almost 10 matches now, feels great, played against monou this weekend as well, rolled it over with ease. The synergy is here and it feels great.
That's exactly what it is for me... not sure about Kamahl...
I'm not going to discuss Mainboard anymore till I start getting live testing in tournaments.
It's real annoying constantly having to debate cards like Connections VS RtB, or running JET or NOT.
I don't mind justifying my decisions, I don't mind discussing them and debating them... but over and over and over? reiteration after reiteration?
Both sides of the arguments are very valid and the differences are minimal.
Yet people are definitive, Connections is down right TERRIBLE. Or JET doesn't work. And some of those people haven't even put in the kind of testing that the rest of us have. They just know it's terrible, it's preconceived and they aren't even reading any of your points.
My thing is if I join a Primer late, I try to read up before I add my 2 cents worth, and that obviously isn't a practiced philosophy by all.
I'm just going to discuss Side Boarding options, strategy at this point...
I completely understand, as a project manager I feel like this part of the thread is about 90% of what I do, you just have to grin and bare it and just keep explaining, over and over again. Luckily in this environment you aren't obligated by your job to sit here.
Another constant strain is that Dega hasn't shown results yet so as far as everyone is concerned, their 4-0 list is better than someone's 3-1 list at the most recent FNM, as the standard block churns throughout the next month I think we'll start to see what exactly is the "winning formula in the meta of meta."
Please note though, all the talks and rehashing have been refreshing to some, consider last meta the only decision to make towards the end of rotation was, "Yeah man Jund pretty good do we turn it into rock now? thx." At least in this neck of the woods people are discussing more vibrant choices, who knows in a month you may look back on page 70 of 150 of this thread and say, "you know, I really did think xyz was a great idea."
Best of luck to you all in your games, and thanks for making my time at the office a little more pleasurable.
I think next to dega I'll be dabbling in U/W lists. They served me great in block, they'll serve me well now.
It's very odd to see some of the most proactive posters leave this thread, and a bit disheartening. Is it because you guys don't think it has what it takes? Typically when something is marked as a meta dependent deck, it doesn't hang well by itself. My only other thought is that some of you are simply exhausted of rebabbling the same thought process, something that I've been reading almost hundreds of times among these last 70 pages.
I am working on Naya Midrange and Grixis Control outside of Mythic Midrange. My focus is going to be towards those decks for a bit as I narrow down to one of them.
Are you switching off dega personally? Should someone else prepare to take over if you're moving on?
RtB I touted as being the best black draw spell we may have ever had. LOL
At worst it's a Sign in Blood, but at best it's a 4 card swing.
I think that RtB is a great card, just.. not in a midrange deck. Control shell? Maybe, sure. I think we're going to start seeing a lot of WRB control lists popping up soon with stuff like this, elspeth, and so on.
Because I cut the Read the Bones, that left me with just 1 Connections.
My first initial lists did a 2/1 Split. 2 RtB and 1 Connections with 4 Jets.
Then a few lists later, I cut Jets and went with a 3/1 Split of RtB and Connection.
Now I've gone completely away from RtB and gone back to Jets.
I've gone through about 20 tweeks/variations and combinations... if not more. LOL
Okay, okay. Right now I'm working over 40 hours a week and I have come to a stern decision that you're doing it right so, aside from a card or two missing I am relatively convinced you are the closest on track to this being "a real thing," so for the most part I have put a lot of stock into your decision making process.
The RtB is what I'm in the same boat on for sure as well, I never felt REALLY great about this card, maybe a 1 of because top decking it late game doesn't feel as bad as top decking a magma jet.
It isn't "Terrible", VS Aggro both cards aren't exactly ideal.
Sure maybe RtB is better VS aggro by a few pts, but Connections isn't a "Terrible" alternative.
If you can't survive to Turn 5, neither of them helps you anyways. LOL
By Turn 5 and beyond, the life loss point is a stupid argument.
What made you turn up from 1 UC to 2 UC? I would think having another mortar might be more valuable, unless what it's digging up is really ending games for you.
- Aurelia is gone
- The Creature base is beautiful
- No alms beast or dese demon
- Plays a healtyh removal mix
- No mutavault (I wasn't feeling it)
- 4x Anger - this is the way to go
Things I am unsure about this list:
- 4 magma and 2 mortar when you can play 3 mortar and 3 jet
- 2 Heroes Downfall
- 1 Erebos in the sideboard
Things that I need to have my hand held through like I was 5 to understand completely:
Regarding Dese Demon, there doesn't seem to be a ton of midrange in the current shakeup, which feels like it makes it even worse than worse. A 4 mana card that is going to turn sideways and sit there doesn't feel good when your opponent decides, "okay, well, I guess I'll just feed it this Dryad Militant I just drew on turn 5." Or, "I don't really care about this dese demon because my firefist striker just triggered on it." Plus, it doesn't have evasion, something that our deck can find plenty of elsewhere.
I picked up 3 (well, Baleful strix, sol ring and command tower are part of the reason I even wanted 3) and I feel comfortable keeping 3. Is it going to go up in price? I really doubt it, look at this print run.
Relax, I just woke up at the time. If it's going to kill all the elementals I'm just as satisfied.
Uh what? Why isn't Master of Waves dying from anger? Did I miss something?
Here it is:
3 Blood Baron of Vizkopa
4 Boros Reckoner
4 Desecration Demon
2 Obzedat, Ghost Council
2 Sin Collector
3 Stormbreath Dragon
Enchantments - 4
3 Chained to the Rocks
1 Whip of Erebos
Planeswalkers -1
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
Instant - 2
2 Hero's Downfall
Artifacts - 1
1 Rakdos Keyrune
4 Anger of the Gods
3 Dreadbore
2 Read the Bones
Lands - 25
4 Blood Crypt
4 Godless Shrine
2 Mountain
2 Plains
1 Rakdos Guildgate
4 Sacred Foundry
2 Swamp
3 Temple of Silence
3 Temple of Triumph
1 Boros Charm
3 Lifebane Zombie
2 Pithing Needle
2 Rakdos's Return
2 Slaughter Games
4 Thoughtseize
1 Wear // Tear
Okay, so, this seems to be a lot different from the lists popping up around here. Much like some of you I was pretty tired of seeing the same lists and the same reasonings. Originally I had dismissed Desecration Demon but I want a creature to curve into from Reckoner and something to curve afterwards into one of the many 5 drop bombs that we have at our disposal.
First thing, this creature count feels SOLID. A lot of the creature counts on these lists were around the 12-13 area, I feel really good against control with this creature count, and I feel even better against aggro. After seeing so many lists that looked too control-ish and conservative, I started testing, and testing *A LOT* probably almost 24 hours of real time testing in the last week. I kept thinking, "this is too much right?" But every time I ripped another creature it felt right. Desecration demon does have its fair share of "ehhh" moments, but when it needs to be a pain in the ass it really is nice.
4 Anger main. This is solid. This does good work against selesnya and it does something else against control and mono blue, it kills neightveil specter and a certain master of waves (there's a reason you dont see mortars in here as well as anger.) Against mono red, well, you know what it does there. Oh, and it exiles voice? Yes, I am going to continue to treat this card as slagstorm and play 4 of them.
Chained to the rocks, not much enchantment hate going around unless your opponent thinks your playing D-Sphere, added bonus in g2 when you don't play it in g1, or it just baits the singleton while you set up a Whip.
3 Stormbreath Dragons, this card was a lot of "2 of" in lists, but I want more of them. At worst against aggro it can trade, at best it perma blocks a white creature. Card is obviously good at responding to a planeswalker as well on the control match. I really like 3 here.
2 Sin Collector. Against Aggro I can bring in Lifebane Zombies, against Red decks I catch myself leaving it in to get rid of a reach spell mid game and just take a hit and die. Sometimes against red I can trade with it and take a spell out of their hand and I am perfectly okay with this interaction. Obviously great against control.
Anyway, this deck is currently undefeated on paper out of almost 10 matches now, feels great, played against monou this weekend as well, rolled it over with ease. The synergy is here and it feels great.
I completely understand, as a project manager I feel like this part of the thread is about 90% of what I do, you just have to grin and bare it and just keep explaining, over and over again. Luckily in this environment you aren't obligated by your job to sit here.
Another constant strain is that Dega hasn't shown results yet so as far as everyone is concerned, their 4-0 list is better than someone's 3-1 list at the most recent FNM, as the standard block churns throughout the next month I think we'll start to see what exactly is the "winning formula in the meta of meta."
Please note though, all the talks and rehashing have been refreshing to some, consider last meta the only decision to make towards the end of rotation was, "Yeah man Jund pretty good do we turn it into rock now? thx." At least in this neck of the woods people are discussing more vibrant choices, who knows in a month you may look back on page 70 of 150 of this thread and say, "you know, I really did think xyz was a great idea."
Best of luck to you all in your games, and thanks for making my time at the office a little more pleasurable.
I think next to dega I'll be dabbling in U/W lists. They served me great in block, they'll serve me well now.
Are you switching off dega personally? Should someone else prepare to take over if you're moving on?
I think that RtB is a great card, just.. not in a midrange deck. Control shell? Maybe, sure. I think we're going to start seeing a lot of WRB control lists popping up soon with stuff like this, elspeth, and so on.
Okay, okay. Right now I'm working over 40 hours a week and I have come to a stern decision that you're doing it right so, aside from a card or two missing I am relatively convinced you are the closest on track to this being "a real thing," so for the most part I have put a lot of stock into your decision making process.
The RtB is what I'm in the same boat on for sure as well, I never felt REALLY great about this card, maybe a 1 of because top decking it late game doesn't feel as bad as top decking a magma jet.
What made you turn up from 1 UC to 2 UC? I would think having another mortar might be more valuable, unless what it's digging up is really ending games for you.
Things that are fantastic about this list:
- Aurelia is gone
- The Creature base is beautiful
- No alms beast or dese demon
- Plays a healtyh removal mix
- No mutavault (I wasn't feeling it)
- 4x Anger - this is the way to go
Things I am unsure about this list:
- 4 magma and 2 mortar when you can play 3 mortar and 3 jet
- 2 Heroes Downfall
- 1 Erebos in the sideboard
Things that I need to have my hand held through like I was 5 to understand completely:
- Those damned underworld connections!
Other than that, it looks fantastic.