While I'm thinking about it, what you everyone like to see in the Primer? Here is my initial sketch of it
1) Brief history, including links to articles, videos, etc.
2) Core cards, regardless of version
3) Genesis Wave version
i) Core cards
ii) Flex cards
iii) Play guide (mulligans, sequencing, matchups)
iv) Sideboarding
4) Primal Command version
i) Core cards
ii) Flex cards
iii) Play guide (mulligans, sequencing, matchups)
iv) Sideboarding
5) What version should I play?
6) General play notes
7) Acknowledgements
That would be awsome if you could take over a primer You can use some of my descriptions if you want from Dies to Removal.
Was planning on it, and will probably look for your input during the writing process
Btw did you have time / card to test non-Genesis Wave version I was running? As you can see I currently am running 2 Chord of Calling md, I think they do similar things like Tooth And Nail (basicly chording for hoof is still gg most of the time, however you have option for other creatures and rebuy it later with witness). You still have option of going big for Craterhoof or Elesh Norn (11 or 10 mana), however you can tap creatures such as selkie, witness etc to help it out.
I was going to run your version at a GPT yesterday. Alas, I developed strep throat and didn't play
What do you guys think about M15 cards? I am looking mainly at Nissa, Worldwaker to suplement Garruk Wildspeaker, however we dont play that many lands to use 2nd ability to its full potential, however +1 is quite good - another usage of fetchlands that doesnt have other targets (+ wrath protection as you can crack them in response if needed).
I'm not sure how well it would fit into a Genesis Wave version of the deck, but I could see it in the mid range version. Other than Nissa, I don't see much in M15
Btw did anyone test out Garruk, Primal Hunter? Sometimes I run out of gas (It is really hard thou with all this card advantage), so using 2nd ability after pumping stuff with kessig / having titan is close to game over.
I've run him as of one of in the SB for matchups like Jund and control. He hasn't made an appearance in my board in a while, since there's been a bit of a local meta shift away from those decks, but I found him to be worthwhile
I've read the past ten pages or so, and I've been tooling around with gnuhouse's latest list, which looks to be something like the definitive version. At the moment, much like the standard monogreen devotion deck, it seems powerful but kind of inconsistent. I'm curious if there is a list of the variant that drops all the Genesis Waves and just goes for Tooth and Nail into a few Craterhoofs? Obviously Genesis Waves seals the win if you get enough devotion on the board, but Tooth and Nail seems somewhat more direct.
I'm also curious what the veteran pilots of this deck (as much as a veteran as one can be considering how new the deck is) think of Early Harvest or Magus of the Candelabra in this deck.
Also, I wish the OP did a better job of going over all the many variants along with the typical and ideal lines of play. I realize many of the variants have only popped up recently, but the primer seems weak compared to most of the others I have read.
There was a Summoner's Pact/Tooth and Nail version a few months back that went X-0 day 1 at a European GP (I think the one that TarmTwin won). I think Pedros' write up on Dies to Removal has a link to it.
As for the Primer, I've asked to take it over so I'll probably take some time to write it up again. I'll probably split it into two, one for a Genesis Wave dependent version (like I run), and one for a non-Genesis Wave dependent version (like Pedros runs).
Yeah, Cavern is something that I've considered but haven't taken any action on it.
I have tried Predator Ooze in the main to mixed results. There were some match ups that it was great in, but overall it was unimpressive. If you're playing Wave, you want stuff that has an immediate impact on the board, which Ooze doesn't.
Against Pod, I like using Scavenging Ooze. Affinity, you can race them with a Wave, but you also have Creeping Corrosion. Jund, I like more Primal Command and Plow Under. I've also had Garruk, Primal Hunter in there too, since Jund has a real hard time with it (as does control at times)
The 3 Flex Spots vary from tournament to tournament. I've run Defense Grids in there before, but I'm moving away from them since the addition of Plow Under in the SB
Also, is there a reason not to run summoner's pact? It doesn't play well with genesis wave but it is primeval titan 5-8,craterhoof 2-4 ect.
I actually think that Pact and/or Tooth and Nail are perfectly acceptable in a Genesis Wave version of the deck. Yes, I realize that this goes against some of what I've said before in this thread, but after playing with them I've found one of each works just fine in the deck. I'm likely siding them out vs any form of Cryptic Command/Remand decks, but anything else allows me to win on the spot.
A certain new green planeswalker looks legit in this deck! I don't want to break the rules but have a look if your interested.
Not to discuss her too much, but the fact that she can only untap Forests is a big red flag for me. Plus, she "competes" with Prime Time for my Magical Christmas Land turn three play
Just some general things, and mostly non-gameplay related
1) Get a good night's sleep the night before. That's a general life rule, but good to mention nonetheless
2) You'll be asked to submit a deck list. Try to do this the night before. You should be able to find a sample deck registration form online so fill that out.
3) Bring drinks and snacks. I try to bring water and nuts, but nuts can be dangerous in bigger environments (I know that no one at my LGS is allergic). Something light and healthy to keep you going through the day.
4) Bring enough money! Forget the potential of needing or wanting to pick up a card, you may need money for food, a cab, or to pay off a roaming band of theives (kidding). Make sure you bring enough money to get you through the day
5) Make sure you bring everything you need. Sounds silly, but make sure you have your deck, dice, and the appropriate tokens. Don't be that guy who uses his dice to represent Soldier tokens for his Elspeth. You know your deck, bring the tokens you need
6) Don't be hard on yourself. If this is your first competitive event, then make it a learning experience too. It's easy to tilt when you lose, or make bad plays, but if you're too hard on yourself then you won't have a positive experience
7) Minimize what you bring. If you don't intend to play side events or trade, don't bring extra decks or a trade binder
8) Don't be afraid to call a judge. If there's any disagreement between you and your opponent, or if something goes awry in the game, stop immediately, politely explain to your opponent that you're calling a judge and why, raise your hand, and yell JUDGE!!!!
9) Always shuffle your opponent's deck. Give if a good 3 or 4 riffle/mash shuffles when he or she presents.
10) The most important....have fun.
I take one of my old work backpacks and fill it with the following:
- Whatever deck I'm intending to play, in one of my many Legion plastic deck boxes. I try to match it with whatever deck it contains
- Couple other decks for between rounds. Typically Modern
- Playmat of choice, in a tube
- Deck box with the appropriate dice and tokens
- 2-3 bottles of Perrier water
- Pen and paper (Sign in Blood life pad) for keeping track of life and notes
- iPad (to pass the time inbetween rounds)
- Trade binder (not always, but I do sometimes)
how would you pilot this deck in a blue heavy and disruption heavy meta? my local have lots of uwr control and twin deck. how do I play around them? should I just adopt a beat-down approach instead of the combo approach?
Assuming that you go the Genesis Wave route, you're not a favourite in game 1 unless you're main decking hate. Post sideboard, you have tricks like Boseiju, Torpor Orb, Combust, Choke, etc. Vs Blue, I tend to take out my Genesis Waves and go more of a midrange route. I will bring in stuff like an extra Primal Command and Plow Unders to disrupt them long enough to give me a decent amount of board presence
I tell you, I did a serious double take. I had to check for the artist mark first, then I checked it against the photos I still had on my phone. I really couldn't believe that my LGS still had em. Needless to say I had no problems parting with Kioras, Stormbreaths, and Brimazes (and some other stuff too) to get them back
A while ago, my LGS managed to get 3 Force of Wills. One of them was in fantastic shape, but the other two were, shall we say, previously loved.
I got a good deal on them (something like $120 for the three of them), so I took them and decided to get them altered. I shipped them off to Sanderline with the concept being something similar to a Therese Neilson alter. She sent back what could only be described as two works of art.
Back in October I decided to sell my collection. My altered Forces were hard to part with, and I almost kept them, but at the end of the day I parted with them as to not break up the playset of Forces (I traded for the fourth shortly after the alters came back). I traded my collection into my LGS, so when one of the locals picked them up my heart sank. He was a younger player and I knew he didn't appreciate them. He was interested in the monetary value of the cards, not the play value or sentimental value of them. And when I heard he had listed them on eBay, let's just say that I was horrified.
Flash forward to this evening. I'm at my LGS, looking in the showcase to see if I could find anything to use my store credit on. I did a double take...my Forces were in the showcase. I quickly took out my trade binder and unloaded a bunch of Standard cards. The owner is a great guy and basically gave me dollar for dollar in value; he knew the cards had more than monetary value to me, so he did me a good one.
My Forces are now back with me and I'm a happy camper. I don't think I'll ever let them go again
Hi, I want to play this on next Modern Tournament. What do you think of this Deck? It is a littlebit like Standard but the Cards are so good... Do you think the Gods have a chance in Modern?
Sideboard seems wonky. 1 Mutavault? Black Discard? Blood Moon?
I'm not sure if a Modern port of a Standard deck is going to fly, especially when the only Modern-only card is BoP. I may be off, but in a format that's a turn 4 win (combo/aggro) or runs stuff like Remand, Cryptic, etc., this deck just doesn't seem to fit in the environment. I think the two best ways to run a green based Nykthos deck is to go all out Genesis Wave combo or to go the Primal Command/Plow Under route.
Timbermare just seems awful. So I Genesis Wave into it, hit a Craterhoof as well, then all my dudes waste their +X/+X. Timbermare gets the bonus too, but he gets Path to Exiled.
Stonewood Invocation just doesn't seem to be along the lines of what we want to do. The deck doesn't really want to be playing a ton of reactive spells.
1) Brief history, including links to articles, videos, etc.
2) Core cards, regardless of version
3) Genesis Wave version
i) Core cards
ii) Flex cards
iii) Play guide (mulligans, sequencing, matchups)
iv) Sideboarding
4) Primal Command version
i) Core cards
ii) Flex cards
iii) Play guide (mulligans, sequencing, matchups)
iv) Sideboarding
5) What version should I play?
6) General play notes
7) Acknowledgements
Was planning on it, and will probably look for your input during the writing process
I was going to run your version at a GPT yesterday. Alas, I developed strep throat and didn't play
I'm not sure how well it would fit into a Genesis Wave version of the deck, but I could see it in the mid range version. Other than Nissa, I don't see much in M15
I've run him as of one of in the SB for matchups like Jund and control. He hasn't made an appearance in my board in a while, since there's been a bit of a local meta shift away from those decks, but I found him to be worthwhile
There was a Summoner's Pact/Tooth and Nail version a few months back that went X-0 day 1 at a European GP (I think the one that TarmTwin won). I think Pedros' write up on Dies to Removal has a link to it.
As for the Primer, I've asked to take it over so I'll probably take some time to write it up again. I'll probably split it into two, one for a Genesis Wave dependent version (like I run), and one for a non-Genesis Wave dependent version (like Pedros runs).
I have tried Predator Ooze in the main to mixed results. There were some match ups that it was great in, but overall it was unimpressive. If you're playing Wave, you want stuff that has an immediate impact on the board, which Ooze doesn't.
Against Pod, I like using Scavenging Ooze. Affinity, you can race them with a Wave, but you also have Creeping Corrosion. Jund, I like more Primal Command and Plow Under. I've also had Garruk, Primal Hunter in there too, since Jund has a real hard time with it (as does control at times)
Anyways, this is what I'm running ATM
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Stranglerot Geist
4 Wistful Selkie
3 Eternal Witness
4 Garruk Wildspeaker
3 Primeval Titan
2 Craterhoof Behemoth
3 Genesis Wave
3 Primal Command
1 Tooth and Nail
1 Summoner's Pact
2 Stomping Ground
1 Kessig Wolf Run
4 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
13 Forest
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Primal Command
3 Plow Under
2 Creeping Corrosion
3 Damping Matrix
1 Spellskite
1 Dismember
3 Flex Spots
The 3 Flex Spots vary from tournament to tournament. I've run Defense Grids in there before, but I'm moving away from them since the addition of Plow Under in the SB
I actually think that Pact and/or Tooth and Nail are perfectly acceptable in a Genesis Wave version of the deck. Yes, I realize that this goes against some of what I've said before in this thread, but after playing with them I've found one of each works just fine in the deck. I'm likely siding them out vs any form of Cryptic Command/Remand decks, but anything else allows me to win on the spot.
Not to discuss her too much, but the fact that she can only untap Forests is a big red flag for me. Plus, she "competes" with Prime Time for my Magical Christmas Land turn three play
That being said, I'll be testing her out.
1) Get a good night's sleep the night before. That's a general life rule, but good to mention nonetheless
2) You'll be asked to submit a deck list. Try to do this the night before. You should be able to find a sample deck registration form online so fill that out.
3) Bring drinks and snacks. I try to bring water and nuts, but nuts can be dangerous in bigger environments (I know that no one at my LGS is allergic). Something light and healthy to keep you going through the day.
4) Bring enough money! Forget the potential of needing or wanting to pick up a card, you may need money for food, a cab, or to pay off a roaming band of theives (kidding). Make sure you bring enough money to get you through the day
5) Make sure you bring everything you need. Sounds silly, but make sure you have your deck, dice, and the appropriate tokens. Don't be that guy who uses his dice to represent Soldier tokens for his Elspeth. You know your deck, bring the tokens you need
6) Don't be hard on yourself. If this is your first competitive event, then make it a learning experience too. It's easy to tilt when you lose, or make bad plays, but if you're too hard on yourself then you won't have a positive experience
7) Minimize what you bring. If you don't intend to play side events or trade, don't bring extra decks or a trade binder
8) Don't be afraid to call a judge. If there's any disagreement between you and your opponent, or if something goes awry in the game, stop immediately, politely explain to your opponent that you're calling a judge and why, raise your hand, and yell JUDGE!!!!
9) Always shuffle your opponent's deck. Give if a good 3 or 4 riffle/mash shuffles when he or she presents.
10) The most important....have fun.
- Whatever deck I'm intending to play, in one of my many Legion plastic deck boxes. I try to match it with whatever deck it contains
- Couple other decks for between rounds. Typically Modern
- Playmat of choice, in a tube
- Deck box with the appropriate dice and tokens
- 2-3 bottles of Perrier water
- Pen and paper (Sign in Blood life pad) for keeping track of life and notes
- iPad (to pass the time inbetween rounds)
- Trade binder (not always, but I do sometimes)
Assuming that you go the Genesis Wave route, you're not a favourite in game 1 unless you're main decking hate. Post sideboard, you have tricks like Boseiju, Torpor Orb, Combust, Choke, etc. Vs Blue, I tend to take out my Genesis Waves and go more of a midrange route. I will bring in stuff like an extra Primal Command and Plow Unders to disrupt them long enough to give me a decent amount of board presence
I tell you, I did a serious double take. I had to check for the artist mark first, then I checked it against the photos I still had on my phone. I really couldn't believe that my LGS still had em. Needless to say I had no problems parting with Kioras, Stormbreaths, and Brimazes (and some other stuff too) to get them back
A while ago, my LGS managed to get 3 Force of Wills. One of them was in fantastic shape, but the other two were, shall we say, previously loved.
Back in October I decided to sell my collection. My altered Forces were hard to part with, and I almost kept them, but at the end of the day I parted with them as to not break up the playset of Forces (I traded for the fourth shortly after the alters came back). I traded my collection into my LGS, so when one of the locals picked them up my heart sank. He was a younger player and I knew he didn't appreciate them. He was interested in the monetary value of the cards, not the play value or sentimental value of them. And when I heard he had listed them on eBay, let's just say that I was horrified.
Flash forward to this evening. I'm at my LGS, looking in the showcase to see if I could find anything to use my store credit on. I did a double take...my Forces were in the showcase. I quickly took out my trade binder and unloaded a bunch of Standard cards. The owner is a great guy and basically gave me dollar for dollar in value; he knew the cards had more than monetary value to me, so he did me a good one.
My Forces are now back with me and I'm a happy camper. I don't think I'll ever let them go again
Sideboard seems wonky. 1 Mutavault? Black Discard? Blood Moon?
I'm not sure if a Modern port of a Standard deck is going to fly, especially when the only Modern-only card is BoP. I may be off, but in a format that's a turn 4 win (combo/aggro) or runs stuff like Remand, Cryptic, etc., this deck just doesn't seem to fit in the environment. I think the two best ways to run a green based Nykthos deck is to go all out Genesis Wave combo or to go the Primal Command/Plow Under route.
Timbermare just seems awful. So I Genesis Wave into it, hit a Craterhoof as well, then all my dudes waste their +X/+X. Timbermare gets the bonus too, but he gets Path to Exiled.
Stonewood Invocation just doesn't seem to be along the lines of what we want to do. The deck doesn't really want to be playing a ton of reactive spells.
GP Toronto 2010 (Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon)
GP Toronto 2012 (Custom art)
GP Toronto 2013 (Colossus of Akros)
GP Detroit 2013 (Custom art)
GP Phoenix 2014 (Brimaz, King of Oreskos)
Return to Ravnica Gameday Champion
Sigarda, Host of Herons
Heavy Meta Podcast
My local LGS
I've been rocking my LGS's playmat the past couple of weeks but I think I'll be bringing my Brimaz mat.