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  • posted a message on [Primer] Mono Green Devotion - Nykthos Green (10/2013 - 7/2014)
    Quote from Pedros »

    Before they printed Nissa I was thinking about Ajani, Mentor of Heroes in 5 drop slot in mydrange devotion. It might not ramp you, however it gives you additional edge - genrates card advantage / dig power to find you relevant sideboard cards, or makes your mediocre creatures into big threats. It works similar to Nissa, which accelerates you mana (most of the time she will untap ~3 forests, maybe 1 of them enchanted by utopia sprawl) and makes lands into huge threats. Question is if there is a slot for it in this deck.

    Would you run 1 of those (either Ajani or Nissa) over 1 Restoration Angel gnuhouse?

    What is your oponion on maindeck Polukranos? Did you have tried him out?

    How many Birds of Paradise would you run? I dont want too flood with them, however having accelerator turn 1 is what makes this deck awsome.

    Ajani vs Nissa, I'd probably lean Nissa. She ramps you, she helps you recover from a sweeper. I might run her in the board, but going to wait for her foil price to drop a bit Wink

    Main deck Polukranos? Haven't thought about it. Off the top of my head, I'm thinking he'd be another SB card unless you're expecting a lot of Affinity in the meta.

    BoP, I don't run any, but I might run a couple in place of the Coursers on Thursday. It's them or Visionaries
    Posted in: Modern Archives - Established
  • posted a message on [Primer] Mono Green Devotion - Nykthos Green (10/2013 - 7/2014)
    Quote from GreenPowerNow »
    Hi, guys!

    I had a little request related to the Genesis Wave variant Primer. As I have said before, I'm a pretty bad player (have always been pretty bad at numbers and logic), and I can usually play about one or two times a week (usually FNM's). I love playing green, and have always been in love with this deck ever since Theros came out. The problem is I have such bad results, it's been pretty frustrating, because I can see it's potential, but I can never make it. I'm pretty sure my failure resides in poor Sideboard and mulligan decisions.
    I was wondering if you could actually write a more detailed Sideboard guide for all those players who, like me, are either bad at the game (and are improving bit by bit), or are relatively new to it and have little time for game-testing and such. I find it useful to know which cards are not good in certain match-ups, but I still have doubts when, for example, I have to board in 4-5 cards, but only know of 3 to SB out correctly. "Which others should I take out?" I usually end up asking myself.

    Just a little request for a more detailed sideboard guide for us newbies! I don't think there is anything wrong with it, and it's actually not at all harmful for more experienced players, who can go straight ahead and ignore that section of the Primer. It can still be useful for the rest of us.

    Thanks for reading! Cheers

    Can you flush out the requirement a little more? What I tried to write was something that was a little more generic that allowed you to tailor your sideboard to whatever your meta looks like, as opposed to a specific sideboard. The result is not something like +x Card A, -y Card B, as you see in some guides, but something that provided flexibility while trying to explain the matchup.
    Posted in: Modern Archives - Established
  • posted a message on [Primer] Mono Green Devotion - Nykthos Green (10/2013 - 7/2014)
    Quote from Caspian »
    Has anyone tried Groundbreaker? Seems like a great value card with Eternal Witness as well as a great guy to drop in the same turn as a Primal Command. He provides a short 3 devotion. He also played well with Genesis Hydra if that's a card you're interested in. Very powerful off of a Genesis Wave as well.

    First off, look at what Groundbreaker has to compete with at the three drop spot; Courser of Kruphix, Eternal Witness, and Wistful Selkie. I can't see cutting a Witness or a Selkie for a green Ball Lightning. The devotion count is too important for you to invest mana into something that only sticks around for one turn, despite the fact that it potentially pays for itself. I mean, think of having the nut draw on turn 2, but replace Selkie with Groundbreaker. Your turn 3 is SO bad!

    Secondly, I think this falls into the category of a "trap card" that I warn about in the primer. Yeah, it looks cool, but if it doesn't move your gameplan forward then I wonder if its of any use
    Posted in: Modern Archives - Established
  • posted a message on [Primer] Mono Green Devotion - Nykthos Green (10/2013 - 7/2014)
    Quote from GreenPowerNow »
    Quote from chronocidist »
    Has anyone tried Nissa, Worldwaker yet? I'm currently running DeadGuy Ale but I really love this deck and I'm just waiting for that one card to push it over the edge. I really think that Nissa is too slow for it, but who knows maybe it is that card.

    I'm testing her in gnhouses' genesis wave variant, running one copy over one command, and so far, she's been good. Need more testing, though. Against control decks she does look promising.

    If anything, I would run Nissa over a Tooth and Nail or Summoner's Pact, not over a Primal Command. Primal Command can be so good in some games I wouldn't want to shave its numbers for Nissa
    Posted in: Modern Archives - Established
  • posted a message on [Primer] Mono Green Devotion - Nykthos Green (10/2013 - 7/2014)
    Quote from Arcx »
    What do you guys think about the aura ramp version of the deck? I`m kind of liking how most removal bricks against it (Path my Arbor elf?) and you're able to go full Primal Command and Genesis Wave.
    The redundancy and threat balance actually feels not bad. I might main a Primeval Bounty just to get value off the cards I do cast (and like primal command, all it's "modes" are relevant.)

    I think you could almost "Pivot" between Devotion (BTE and Strangleroot) and Aura Ramp (Fertile Ground, Overgrowth, Voyaging Satyr) to swap between speed and.. whatever primal command lock does, between games. Of course you lose like 8 or so sideboard slots. :p

    I just started playing Modern and I only have 1 Primeval Titan and 3 Garruk, and 3 Nykthos, but I have everything else (Besides some side tech I'm working on picking up.) I've tried running Courser of Kruphix and an Eidolon of Blossoms or two, but they weren't great (Blossoms is an expensive Selkie or elvish visionary at worst which is not great because selkie is already slow.)

    I don't suppose there's anything in modern that can take advantage of running 11 or so land auras? (Besides Eidolon of Blossoms that is a touch slow and kind of redundant with Genesis Wave.)
    The enchantresses (Verduran Enchantress and Yavimaya Enchantress) are probably too fragile..

    If you check out Travis Woo's build (article and videos are in the primer that I posted a few pages back), he plays Aura ramp. Try looking at that as a starting point
    Posted in: Modern Archives - Established
  • posted a message on [Primer] Mono Green Devotion - Nykthos Green (10/2013 - 7/2014)
    Quote from damocles69 »

    Because you are running the Coursers have you thought about replacing the skelkies with eidolon of blossoms? Yay, at its worst it eats a bolt and is a skelkie for 1 more manna. But if it sticks, or even better sticks through a wave, you get all the cards

    If you look in the primer there is both a decklist and an article that uses Eidelon of Blossoms. In my opinion, you need to play a real heavy enchantment build, be careful with your Genesis Waves (need to factor in card drawing), and you may not get draws that are as explosive as decks with Selkies. GGG is super relevant in this deck

    Hey, D&T player here, I think the deck has a pretty bad match-up against NyxWave. What are some things that can be run in white that hurt this deck? Would a splash of green or black help the match-up? As I understand, the bad match-ups are against other combo decks that appreciate the lack of disruption. With D&T however, what can white (and other colors) do to disrupt this deck? The cards that come to mind might be Grafdigger's Cage, Torpor Orb, and perhaps Eidolon of Rhetoric?

    As pedros correctly pointed out, Grafdigger's Cage will shut off Genesis Wave, but not Primal Command, TnN, or Summoner's Pact, so it's a partial solution. Torpor Orb is a tough one for us to deal with, as would the new one from M15 (Hushwing Gryph I think)

    Eidolon of Rhetoric is an interesting one, since it's in the same category as Ethersworn Cannonist and Rule of Law. Personally, I don't think it's that good of a card. I've managed to play through a Cannonist before, and it comes down a full turn earlier. Yes, there are turns where we do have to p;ay multiple spells, but we can bide our time, play Garruk, and then cast one big Wave.

    Quote from GreenPowerNow »

    Hi, guys! It's good to see so many brews and activity here at this thread. I've been playing all versions of this deck in Modern ever since Theros came out, although with little success (I blame myself almost entirely, I suck as a player). I'm still in love with it, and got really excited about Genesis Hydra and Nissa, Worldwaker.
    I was wondering, why don't we work on a new build featuring these two? We would have 3 versions of Green Devotion:
    1- Primal Command
    2- Genesis Wave
    3- Genesis Hydra

    The more options, the better! In early testing, and with the availability of Cavern of Souls in Modern, Genesis Hydra is looking pretty strong. I was thinking on adapting Todd Anderson's first standard build to Modern, it could be something like this:
    What bombs should we use? I'm unsure about Primeval Titan (wouldn't want more than 5 coloreless land-would replace citadel for kessig), Hornet Queen or Terastodon. Also not sure about adding playset of Voyaging Satyr for extra ramp. Curve on 3 is weak...if only we had Yavimaya Elder back...
    Anyways, thought maybe a build using Hydras and Garruks could be a thing. I think it's definitely worth the brewing and finding Nissa a place in Modern.
    See ya around!

    Personally, I can't see any good reason to play Genesis Hydra over Genesis Wave. If Genesis Hydra allowed you to put ALL permanents into play, then sure. But you only get one, which makes it much worse than Genesis Wave.

    However, if you do look at your build, I think it's too planeswalker heavy. You'd definitely want Primeval Titan in there (the ability to fetch Nykthos is overlooked in that list), and Craterhoof. Summoner's Pact may not be necessary, but if you're dependent on Hydra, then maybe it is.

    As for Nissa, I'm torn. I don't want to be playing a ton of 5 drops, and she would compete with Primal Command. He's worse than Garruk Wildspeaker, in that she only untaps Forests (albeit she untaps twice as many lands). On the other hand, she does allow you to recover from a Wrath effect fast. She might be sideboard worthy vs Control. Only testing will bear this out.
    Posted in: Modern Archives - Established
  • posted a message on [Primer] Mono Green Devotion - Nykthos Green (10/2013 - 7/2014)
    Just as an aside, from all this theorizing, I'm trying to foil the deck out. Right now I have the following foiled
    3 Arbor Elf
    4 Burning-Tree Emissary
    4 Strangleroot Geist
    2 Garruk Wildspeaker (Duels promo I think)
    4 Primeval Titan (GP Promo)
    2 Genesis Wave
    3 Damping Matrix

    I just ordered
    1 Kessig Wolf Run
    2 Stomping Ground
    2 Craterhoof Behemoth
    4 Eternal Witness (FNM Promo)
    1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
    2 Garruk Wildspeaker (German Duels promo)
    2 Utopia Sprawl

    I'll post pics as I chip away at this. I've never foiled a deck out, but I consider this one my baby so I figured that it would be appropriate
    Posted in: Modern Archives - Established
  • posted a message on [Primer] Mono Green Devotion - Nykthos Green (10/2013 - 7/2014)
    Have any of you tried Harmonize in the deck? I have added it to my deck, but it have not been tested yet.

    Early versions of the deck did run Harmonize. In a BGx filled world, Harmonize is actually really good, but I found I sided it out against most other decks
    Posted in: Modern Archives - Established
  • posted a message on [Primer] Mono Green Devotion - Nykthos Green (10/2013 - 7/2014)
    Quote from Pedros »

    One thing I just have noticed is the fact that you are not playing Birds of Paradise, and basicly you have BTE in this spot. After Genesis Wave BTE is much better, however how is it before Wave?

    Before the Wave it's fairly good, although situational. You typically have two plays with it; either you're casting it into something, like a Garruk, or you're using it to power a Nykthos activation.

    Last night I did do some funky things with it
    - Used the mana from BTE to activate my Kessig Wolf Run in my main phase (no Stomping Ground in play)
    - Used the mana solely to cast an Arbor Elf or Utopia Sprawl
    - Used the mana to cast Strangleroote Geist. Yes, you read that right. 2 Forests, 1 Nykthos, cast BTE, use mana to activate Nykthos for GG, cast Strangleroot. Next turn was land, Garruk, Primeval Titan

    Posted in: Modern Archives - Established
  • posted a message on [Primer] Mono Green Devotion - Nykthos Green (10/2013 - 7/2014)
    So I ended up playing Genesis Wave tonight, trying a few things out

    So for those playing at home, out came the Tooth and Nail and Summoner's Pact, in came the Coursers. I felt that the replacing any of the creatures for Courser was a downgrade, so I took out TnN and Pact as they were fringe cards to begin with. In the sideboard, I felt that the local meta would be skewed towards Jund, Pod, Twin, and blue-based decks, with the odd Affinity thrown in, so I built accordingly. I main decked Boseiju, upped my Stomping Ground count to 4, sleeved up the bad boy and went ready to rumble

    Round 1 - Mono Red Koth
    Deck totally off the radar being piloted by a former UK National Champion
    G1 - I mull to five, not the best of starts. I get the Koth beatdown
    I bring in Plow Under, Primal Command, and Ghost Quarter. Out comes Boseiju, a Genesis Wave, a Craterhoof, and a BTE (I think, notes are as rough as my throat)
    G2 - Early Strangleroot beats knock him down to 11, he begins to stabilize and drops Blood Moon. Crud. I land a Garruk, -1 him to make a beast. As it turns out, the next turn I'm able to hardcast the Craterhoof in my hand, swing in for 12.
    G3 - I keep a rather good seven, he mulligans and has a greedy keep. I manage to start to build my devotion count up as he stalls on land, but as soon as I hit my third land...the lands just stop coming. He then Blood Moons me, so Nykthos is shut off, leaving me with a hand full of 5 and 6 drops, but only three lands. And as I stop drawing lands, he starts. From there I just fell further and further behind and I get Hammered (pun fully intended)

    Round 2 - Kiki Pod
    A veteran with the Pod deck, I figured I was in for a good match
    G1 - He drops a turn 2 Pod, very quickly goes up the chain to Kiki+Zealous Conscripts for the win
    I bring in Damping Matrix and Ghost Quarters, taking out Boseiju, a Forest, and the Coursers
    G2 - Little back and forth as he goes up his Pod chain to Redcap and offs my BTE with Arbor Elf, Utopia Sprawl, and Geist on the table as my devotion enablers. Next turn I go BTE into Nykthos into Behemoth for the win. The deck just does that sometimes
    G3 - Turn 1 Utopia Sprawl, turn 2 Damping Matrix. He shows me the Kiki in his hand and Resto on the table, and scoops

    Round 3 - Dredge
    Not too familiar with this guy. Talked to him afterwards, he's an avid Legacy player
    G1 - Catches me off guard with the deck. He drops a Lotleth Troll, starts to go at the whole Dredge plan with Stinkweed Imp, Darkblast, and Loam. I Primal Command for a Craterhoof and shuffle his graveyard into his library, effectively putting him in top deck mode. Next turn I Behemoth for the win.
    I was stumped on this one. I know I took out Boseiju for a Ghost Quarter, and I think a Command and a Plow Under for both Coursers
    G2 - He just got an absolutely stupid draw, Lotleth Trolls, Gravecrawlers, and Vengevines. Yeah, that happened.
    G3 - I mull to 5, keep a hand with Ghost Quarter and Nykthos, proceed to draw no additional lands.

    Round 4 - Affinity
    Buddy of mine who just started playing Affinity a few weeks ago
    G1 - He gets a decent start, begins down the Infect route with Inkmoth and Signal Pest. I chip away at his life total with a Strangleroot Geist, he starts to poison me. He manages to get me to 9 poison when I just cast a Craterhoof with SRG, Selkie, and a Beast token on the table, swing for the win.
    Bring in Damping Matrix, Creeping Corrosion, Nature's Claim, take out Primal Commands and a couple BTEs
    G2 - Just the absolute nut draw from him. 9 damage on turn 2, dead on turn 3
    Notice how, up to this point, I have not cast Genesis Wave.
    G3 - He has a fast start but just cannot capitalize. He Thoughtseized my Garruk out of my hand, which has SRG, Primeval Titan, and lands. I proceed to go BTE into a 2 mana Nykthos for SRG, next turn drop a Titan, and the following turn Genesis Wave for 7. That yields a Garruk, Nykthos, Selkie, BTE, Wave, Witness, and Creeping Corrosion. Buy back the Wave, do it again but for 11 this time. Hit a Behemoth, and he scoops

    Not unhappy, totally misjudged the meta. That or I just avoided all the blue. I think the meta was slightly different than usual, as I know there are some pretty hardcore blue mages at the store. The deck just up and failed me in a couple of matches, but that happens with 20 lands.

    Not sold on the Coursers here. I boarded them out vs Pod and Dredge, kept them in vs Koth and Affinity, but more because of it's toughness than the life gain/card advantage.
    Posted in: Modern Archives - Established
  • posted a message on [Primer] Mono Green Devotion - Nykthos Green (10/2013 - 7/2014)
    Added a section for "The Nut Draw" for the Genesis Wave version. There is a Turn 2 and Turn 3 nut draw, but if someone could check my work I'd appreciate it
    Posted in: Modern Archives - Established
  • posted a message on [Primer] Mono Green Devotion - Nykthos Green (10/2013 - 7/2014)
    What might be useful, if you want to record, is to play without recording, then grab a replay and walk through the match after its done. It allows you to speed through some parts of the game, but also to stop it and discuss some things.

    I might rebuild the Genesis Wave version of the deck online and do the same. I cashed out of my collection a few weeks ago, so I might buy back in depending on how the beta switch over goes

    EDIT and I just noticed you said that you were going to do EXACTLY what I suggested. Been a long day
    Posted in: Modern Archives - Established
  • posted a message on [Primer] Mono Green Devotion - Nykthos Green (10/2013 - 7/2014)
    Quote from Pedros »
    Quote from gnuhouse »

    As I said I will point some things out. Just sharing my experiences.

    I think somewhere in the Primer you should have pointed out the bustest draw possible. In Genesis Wave version (I think it should be called as Combo/Value deck, as the Primal Command is more of the Value/Combo deck) it is: Arbor Elf, Utopia Sprawl, Forest, Nykthos, Garruk, Burning-Tree Emissary, either Primeval Titan or Primal Command your 1st land. Midrange version cant have this kind of draw as it doesnt play Burning-Tree Emissary, however it has more consistent non-perfect draws (from my experience). I think it should be pointed out somewhere - probably in "What version should I play section" describing differences.

    Good idea. I'll include the nut draw for the Genesis Wave version

    You shouldnt disregard -1 option of making Beast Tokens, as 3/3 body is quite big for modern (it however dies to every removal possible). As a part of strategy you should know what you want to do with Garruk. Vs Lightning Bolt decks most of the time you want to +1 him. Vs BG Rock most of the time you also want to +1 him, even if you have other blockers and they only have bob/treetop. Garruk is one of the best cards vs BG Rock, you want to protect him, however BG easily can kill 2 blockers with decay/pact and swing with BoB, or animate treetop, pact and swing with 2. I also have used Garruk multiple time as a Ritual (when you have more than 4 devotion,nykthos and utopia sprawl, or more than 5 devotion and nykthos) or as multiple beast per one turn. This is a card that you cant flood with, however it is really hard to play with it optimally.

    I like this discussion. I think I just might CnP this into the primer someplace. Not sure where yet, but I'll put it in.

    I think you should point somewhere, that if your life doesnt matter that much, you should tutor for fetchland over basic/shockland and then crack them at upkeep. It allows you to filter more lands from your deck. It also have additional advantage if you have Courser of Krupnix - you then have an option to reset your top card in a library at upkeep, or reset a top card if you are searching for land.

    Yeah, I think that I need something on a hierarchy of lands to fetch with Primeval Titan

    If you have fetchlands I dont see a point of playing 2 stomping grounds if you dont use any other red cards anywhere in the deck. In version without fetchlands I would probably play ~4.

    I think in flex slots you should put information, that Elvish Visionary isnt that good and if you want additional card draw (that isnt Wistful Selkie) you should probably play Abundant Growth. MJ in his article described it the best.

    I'm wondering if mana/land base needs a separate section. I realize it's a very simplistic mana/land base, but I think that discussions around inclusion of non-basic lands might warrant some discussion

    As for Visionary vs Abundant Growth, I'll have to revisit the MJ article on that

    Very important part of Birds of Paradise is obvious, but not talked here - the fact that it flies. In a lot of situations on a stale board you can attack with birds, pump them with nykthos and in case of removal not be dead on swingback. With ground assault, it isnt that easy as generaly speaking there is more toughtness involved.

    Probably something for play notes

    I dissagre with a fact that Kitchen Finks and Strangleroot Geists are good. They are eaten by Scavenging ooze when in graveyard, and not touched before that. Beast Within isnt also perfect as a removal, as it gives them value. Best cards vs them is Eternal Witness / Wistful Selkie / small Garruk.
    I also dissagre that Scavenging Ooze is bad vs them. It is card I am even sideboarding vs them. It works vs their Tarmogoyf, vs Darkblast (our decks hoser), Lingering Souls. It is also huge beater. Birds of Paradise are bad, however you still need ~10 accelerators?

    Remember when you are cutting Mana Dorks bring additional lands in Ghost Quarters if you have them. They works both early and later (mana if dork is killed, removal vs manlands later)

    They probably dont board Slaughter Games, Rakdos Charm or Graffsdigger's Cage if they know how our deck plays out, as those cards are really narrow.

    While Genesis Wave is good vs them, I would probably not keep all 4, as realisticly speaking matchup is really grindy and your whole hand would be discarded / killed on first few turns. What you hate is them killing / taking all accelerators and having dead cards in hand. Remember Waving for 4 is the minimum number that is good in this version (not hitting Titans). I would probably also sideboard Craterhoof vs them.

    I've played with Geists and Finks main vs Jund decks and they've always proven to be extremely valuable, even with cards like Deathrite and Ooze in the format. The point you make is valid, but from my field reports they're fairly decent.

    Fair point about cards not being sided in, I just listed a variety of options that a Jund/Junk player has. I have had Grafdigger's Cage played against me as it does shut off the Primal Command loop, Genesis Wave, Tooth and Nail, and Summoner's Pact.

    Point about Wave is valid and I'll probably include that.

    I dissagre with Plow Under or Primal Command being awsome vs them to distrupt their combo. You cant realisticly race Twin, it is just to fast and have distruption that hurts us (both removal and counterspells). I would concentrate on having god removal suite and try distrupt the combo (idealy 2 for 1 them) and then primal commanding them to lock the game this way.

    Thrun isnt as good as it seams vs this deck (similar to vs Scapeshift or UWR) as it is just too slow. Defense Grid isnt also interacting with their combo.

    In other SB guides I dissagree about the fact that Genesis Wave is better than Primal Command. When opponent is having counterspells, removals or is comboing of very fast Command is better than Wave because it is cheaper.

    Defense Grid isn't used to interact with the combo, it's used to slow it down long enough for us to get ours going.

    Going back and giving this some more thought, I think there needs to be a discussion of not just when to Wave but when to Wave vs when to Command. It's a very valid and acceptable line of play at times, so I think it needs it's own discussion.

    Yay, more primer work for me!
    Posted in: Modern Archives - Established
  • posted a message on [Primer] Mono Green Devotion - Nykthos Green (10/2013 - 7/2014)
    Quote from Pedros »
    Also would you play Damping Matrix over Stony Silence if you have white sources in a deck?

    Stony silence is cheaper and it hoses mana abilities - so it works vs mox opal, darksteel citadel, springleaf drums, chromatic star/sphere, lotus blooms and pendant prisms.

    Damping Matrix turns of our arbor elf and birds of paradase, however it works similar to Linvala, Keeper of Silence - it hoses twin and pod.

    What are your opinions on Aven Mindcensor in Primal Command Version? Additional hatebear vs Scapeshift, Tron and Pod. I am thinking about playing him over 1 Plow Under? Thoughts?

    Damping Matrix vs Stony Silence
    I guess this comes down to preference, meta, and build. If you run more mana dorks than just the Arbor Elves, have a meta full of little metal guys donning plates on their skulls, and don't have a ton of Twin or Pod in your meta, then Stony Silence is good. Otherwise, I would probably run Damping Matrix.

    In your version, pedros, I would definitely run Stony Silence. With a greater reliance on non-Arbor Elves and KotR (I think you still use her), Damping Matrix is a non-bo. In Genesis Wave builds, I would run Damping Matrix over Stony Silence since it has a great effect vs your opponent than it does yourself.

    Aven Mindcensor is a good addition, I like it so give it a shot
    Posted in: Modern Archives - Established
  • posted a message on [Primer] Mono Green Devotion - Nykthos Green (10/2013 - 7/2014)
    Quote from Pedros »

    If you have access to green fetchlands play them. I think it should be pointed out gnuhouse somewhere in a primer, even if you arent playing them currently please put deck with them. They make eternal witness much better.

    Made that change in the primer. Good point
    Posted in: Modern Archives - Established
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