So it wound't hurt to reprint them to modern then. Also Legacy is diferent from Modern so who knows what could happen.
100% agree. I didn’t intend to imply otherwise. I only meant it may be hard to really help Goblins. If they’re underpowered either way, it may not be very satisfying to get those reprints. But they definitely can print them, and in fact underpowered reprints are likely to be the bulk of a set. There isn’t a single set newer than Legends where the cards aren’t mostly bulk priced. This will be no different. So we can expect lots of niche cards and outright garbage (hello, Mon’s Goblin Raiders!).
I would like cards that could help tier 2 or lower moderm decks like for example the goblin decks. Reprinting Goblin Lackey, Goblin Matron and/or Goblin Ringleader would be great for the goblin decks without breaking it.
Goblins is hard to save. It’s not much of a thing in Legacy anymore, right? I don’t follow Legacy closely, but I do look at tournament results from time to time and I haven’t seen much Merfolk or Goblins since Delver became a thing years ago. It’s just the better small creature agro-tempo plan and the same will be true in Modern, I assume.
Would True-Name Nemesis be ok in Moderm? Curious at the candidates for that spot of the strongest blue card.
If you look back over this thread, you will see a lot of predictions both for and against TNN. I’m in the “no” camp, with my biggest reason being the recent Gavin Verhey interview where he stated very clearly that the card never should have been printed. I don’t think they want it anywhere near Modern.
I think a good way to look at Legacy material being in MH1 is to compare cards to the banlist. IfDark Ritualwas on the Modern banlist, would Wizards be ok to unban it ? The answer is obviously NO, and the most superficial reason is that a similar card, Rite of Flame, is on that banlist (of course you can analyse the card and its impact on the format). Check out all the powerful cards this way and you get a quick answer to your expectations.
Unless this set signals a paradigm shift. I think there’s a very real chance they’re aiming to bring Modern more in line with Legacy and they could use this product to raise the power level across the board.
However, how is WOTC planning to address the elephant in the room, ie, the manabases, Modern is pretty much a fetchland+shockland format, Tron notwithstanding. What is a Goblin deck going to do against those manabases?
Ruination could be backbreaking for Modern. In fact, I fear that might make monored too good. We might start seeing more Sacred Ground and Terra Eternal to prevent utter blowouts.
I strongly suspect Wizards will use this entire paradigm shift as a way to make Modern more like Legacy but without the things they don’t want in Magic any more. On very recent Drive to Work podcasts (“Designing Counterspells”), MaRo has talked about the fact that the three things that players least enjoy are counterspells, discard and land destruction. All three are things that entirely prevent the opponent from playing when they get too effective, and that doesn’t make for interesting gameplay.
For this reason, I don’t think we will see Ruination. I also don’t think Hymn to Tourach is likely.
Counterspells are the trickiest, but I’m guessing we won’t see the entire Legacy suite of counters dumped in at once. I like the prediction of Counterspell itself but I’d bet against Daze and Force of Will making an appearance in this first Modern expansion set. Maybe later, depending how things evolve. I doubt we will ever see Mana Drain added to Modern.
It said there’s 249 new cards and there’s 254 total my lad
249 new to Modern, which includes pre-8th edition reprints. The extra five are the basic lands.
Honestly, I think the new cards will be fairly limited in number and there will be a ton of chaff reprints at all rarities under the guise of making it a good limited format.
I don’t think they care about keeping old formats “separate” feeling. This product is essentially the formalized death of Legacy. Wizards already did virtually nothing at all to support it and this is their moment to build Modern into a true Legacy ver 2.0 without the pitfalls of the Reserved List.
You’re the third or fourth person to bring up True Name Nemesis, but just a couple of weeks ago (in the Tolarian Community College interview), Gavin Verhey said they never should have printed the card. I don’t think he would say that just before a high profile set is announced that includes it.
I’m a hard “no way” on whether TNN is in this set.
I don’t think any of the candles represent Bolas. He’s blowing out those candles and we hear him breathing. So I think the number of snuffed candles is the number of deaths and/or sparks lost, while the remaining candle will be the one who stops Bolas at the end.
It would also be funny if the thing Verhey and others have hinted at as shocking the community turns out to be a set with gigatons of planeswalkers.
I like this idea in general and it doesn’t matter to me if the definitions are soft. The convey an idea of the poster’s intention, which is very useful. It takes conversation to nail down specifics no matter what, so some sort of starting point can only help.
I do think a sticky explaining tags would be helpful. I’ve been using this site for 6+ years and I still have no idea what some tags mean; that’s very annoying.
I'm pointing out that many people assume a particular thing from Crucible, and that they can put it in almost any deck, and that it instantly means that they get a land drop every turn for the rest of the game, this was highlighted by the below user...
While I agree Crucible of Worlds is a bit overrated by the larger MtG community, it’s been a bit unfairly maligned in this thread. It does have good uses. I run it in my monored deck, where there are four fetchlands and tons of mountains all those fetches can hit. In a deck like this, Crucible is essentially “3: never miss a land drop,” which I absolutely consider worthwhile. Monoblue would benefit similarly (coincidentally, the other best color for artifacts). The upside of reusing a Strip Mine is pure gravy.
So it's important to make it clear to players, that this is not true all the time. This is not an argument, it's a fact.
Couldn’t disagree with you more. You may have noticed I agree with the general premise that it’s often overrated, but I was refuting early statements that implied it was universally poor.
I make heavy use of artifacts in monored (which I think is common), so I can exploit synergies there. Land ramp is weakness the color and fetches do help hit land drops. 80% of the time I draw Crucible, I will already have a fetch land so it absolutely does become “hit all your land drops.” And being a deck that is light on recursion, I’ve never drawn graveyard hate; obviously global graveyard hate can hit me incidentally, but I don’t think that’s the point. Random other synergies like reusing Strip Mine lands and trading it with Goblin Welder push it well over the utility threshold.
Crucible is quite good in the deck and it’s not a dedicated land reanimation deck.
Also having no limits on the cards you play doesn't automatically remove those limits from how you build decks and choose to play the game.
Can you elaborate on this? My take would be that limiting how you build decks is limiting the cards that you play and I'm curious how you distinguish those.
I assume the point here is that playing Kiki-Jiki with or without one of those comborific creatures we all know and love is very different. One way is a highly flexible value tool, while the other is a true infinite combo that ends the game on the spot if not answered.
While I agree Crucible of Worlds is a bit overrated by the larger MtG community, it’s been a bit unfairly maligned in this thread. It does have good uses. I run it in my monored deck, where there are four fetchlands and tons of mountains all those fetches can hit. In a deck like this, Crucible is essentially “3: never miss a land drop,” which I absolutely consider worthwhile. Monoblue would benefit similarly (coincidentally, the other best color for artifacts). The upside of reusing a Strip Mine is pure gravy.
Echoing a post above: if you don’t like a particular card or strategy, punish it. Destroy it. Disallow it (with cards, not house rules).
I’ve yet to run into any real problems with this approach.
This is the cEDH approach. Nothing wrong with the playstyle but I think it’s pretty clear a large majority of play groups don’t want the game to play out this way.
In my case, the trouble with it is that the card pool dwindles over time as everyone’s lists get closer and closer to the Top 25 lists on this site. I like EDH for the much greater variety than many other formats and anything goes kind of kills that.
Especially when “almost anything goes” allows for orders of magnitude more quantity of viable cards. But your group has to be ok with fuzzy guidelines for deck building and that won’t work for everyone.
100% agree. I didn’t intend to imply otherwise. I only meant it may be hard to really help Goblins. If they’re underpowered either way, it may not be very satisfying to get those reprints. But they definitely can print them, and in fact underpowered reprints are likely to be the bulk of a set. There isn’t a single set newer than Legends where the cards aren’t mostly bulk priced. This will be no different. So we can expect lots of niche cards and outright garbage (hello, Mon’s Goblin Raiders!).
Goblins is hard to save. It’s not much of a thing in Legacy anymore, right? I don’t follow Legacy closely, but I do look at tournament results from time to time and I haven’t seen much Merfolk or Goblins since Delver became a thing years ago. It’s just the better small creature agro-tempo plan and the same will be true in Modern, I assume.
If you look back over this thread, you will see a lot of predictions both for and against TNN. I’m in the “no” camp, with my biggest reason being the recent Gavin Verhey interview where he stated very clearly that the card never should have been printed. I don’t think they want it anywhere near Modern.
Unless this set signals a paradigm shift. I think there’s a very real chance they’re aiming to bring Modern more in line with Legacy and they could use this product to raise the power level across the board.
I strongly suspect Wizards will use this entire paradigm shift as a way to make Modern more like Legacy but without the things they don’t want in Magic any more. On very recent Drive to Work podcasts (“Designing Counterspells”), MaRo has talked about the fact that the three things that players least enjoy are counterspells, discard and land destruction. All three are things that entirely prevent the opponent from playing when they get too effective, and that doesn’t make for interesting gameplay.
For this reason, I don’t think we will see Ruination. I also don’t think Hymn to Tourach is likely.
Counterspells are the trickiest, but I’m guessing we won’t see the entire Legacy suite of counters dumped in at once. I like the prediction of Counterspell itself but I’d bet against Daze and Force of Will making an appearance in this first Modern expansion set. Maybe later, depending how things evolve. I doubt we will ever see Mana Drain added to Modern.
249 new to Modern, which includes pre-8th edition reprints. The extra five are the basic lands.
Honestly, I think the new cards will be fairly limited in number and there will be a ton of chaff reprints at all rarities under the guise of making it a good limited format.
I don’t think they care about keeping old formats “separate” feeling. This product is essentially the formalized death of Legacy. Wizards already did virtually nothing at all to support it and this is their moment to build Modern into a true Legacy ver 2.0 without the pitfalls of the Reserved List.
You’re the third or fourth person to bring up True Name Nemesis, but just a couple of weeks ago (in the Tolarian Community College interview), Gavin Verhey said they never should have printed the card. I don’t think he would say that just before a high profile set is announced that includes it.
I’m a hard “no way” on whether TNN is in this set.
It would also be funny if the thing Verhey and others have hinted at as shocking the community turns out to be a set with gigatons of planeswalkers.
I do think a sticky explaining tags would be helpful. I’ve been using this site for 6+ years and I still have no idea what some tags mean; that’s very annoying.
Couldn’t disagree with you more. You may have noticed I agree with the general premise that it’s often overrated, but I was refuting early statements that implied it was universally poor.
I make heavy use of artifacts in monored (which I think is common), so I can exploit synergies there. Land ramp is weakness the color and fetches do help hit land drops. 80% of the time I draw Crucible, I will already have a fetch land so it absolutely does become “hit all your land drops.” And being a deck that is light on recursion, I’ve never drawn graveyard hate; obviously global graveyard hate can hit me incidentally, but I don’t think that’s the point. Random other synergies like reusing Strip Mine lands and trading it with Goblin Welder push it well over the utility threshold.
Crucible is quite good in the deck and it’s not a dedicated land reanimation deck.
Faith’s Fetters is the definition of incidental life gain and is flexible enough as a Pacifism-variant to be good in Commander.
This is the cEDH approach. Nothing wrong with the playstyle but I think it’s pretty clear a large majority of play groups don’t want the game to play out this way.
In my case, the trouble with it is that the card pool dwindles over time as everyone’s lists get closer and closer to the Top 25 lists on this site. I like EDH for the much greater variety than many other formats and anything goes kind of kills that.
Especially when “almost anything goes” allows for orders of magnitude more quantity of viable cards. But your group has to be ok with fuzzy guidelines for deck building and that won’t work for everyone.