Slightly different when you remove all guild mechanics.
Do we know they're removing guild mechanics? I didn't know that.
I’m pretty sure Rosewater has commented on it in his podcast. But he almost doesn’t have to. All sets are standalone now and the guild mechanics are not evergreen (only Convoke is deciduous), so there’s little chance of them showing up. I can’t imagine a standalone set with 10 unique mechanics AND a boatload of Planeswalkers fitting their modern limits on set complexity.
It does raise the interesting question of what mechanics we will get. People have wondered how Planeswalkers will be kept in check in limited; there could be a mechanic for it. Imagine “Mage-Hunter X” which is “when this creature attacks, it deals X damage to each Planeswalker an opponent controls.”
With every booster seeded with one planeswalker, I doubt we will see the guildgates making a return in the basic land spot and if they did, this time we would have 10 different gates instead of 5.
That would make this set Dragons Maze but with planeswlakers.... Hold on, that's exactly what this set is.
Slightly different when you remove all guild mechanics.
Putting this aside,I wonder which planeswalkers will be in which rarity. Given that Bolas is the one who controls the Immortal Sun, we can assume that he will retain their mythic power level.
As for the others, there are 4 new walkers and it would be a shame if they made their debut as anything but mythic power level.
Traditional mainstays like Bolas, Ugin, Teferi, Jace, Liliana and Karn are the most likely to be Mythic or possibly Rare. It makes much more sense to put new Planeswalkers are lower power levels: they aren’t popular yet and, if any become very popular here, they can be promoted to traditional Mythic Planeswalkers in later sets.
Another possibility is to make conspicuously outside Planeswalkers weaker. They could make the powerful ones those native to Ravnica and those seen to have been here for a while.
other people think it's not fine? you have to logically concede that there's an issue even if you aren't affected as an individual. Just because you're not offended doesn't make something OK. telling people not to be offended, or that they are wrong to be offended (or in your comment above that their offence isn't even real!) is not a reasonable stance to take. You'll want to sort that out.
I disagree with this premise. It is possible to be unjustifiably outraged. If a white supremacist were outraged by Teferi, would you say that is reasonable? It is fair to say not all reasons for being offended are justified. Of course, it’s not generally a good topic for Internet discussion to discuss whether an individual’s outrage toward a specific thing is good or bad. But I think your statement of logical truth is inaccurate in this case.
i doubt that they will make "superfriends" a playable archtype in standard. it would slow down the pace of the game and usually thats somethn they at least try to avoid.
Esper control is already flirting with Superfriends status. If they make the planeswalkers in this set so weak that only 1 or 2 out of 36 are standard-playable, players will be outraged. You can’t sell a set with the promise of a million planeswalkers and then make them all suck. At that point, you simply don’t make the planeswalker set.
I would love to see them flip a planeswalker completely on his/her head. Hoping that when Elspeth returns she comes back mono-black. Or would be fascinating for an older walker to have been ‘brainwashed’ or ‘converted’ into an entirely different color set.
Elspeth returning from the dead would be a good opportunity for this, though even then WB seems more likely than monoblack. The general presentation of Planeswalkers heavily implies inherent power over learned technique (ala D&D Wizards). The moment of sparking is described as a transformation from within. I think PWs are intended to have an intrinsic color identity because of this. It can shift to a degree, but fully reversing it seems out of concept.
I feel like Oubliette's out of color pie for black. A white version would fit the color pie much better.
Definitely, especially the part where it’s an enchantment. But Wizards does need to serve the player base that loves old, quirky cards. Part of eternal formats is exploiting the variations in design technology over the lifespan of the game.
Is there a single source for the story of the Lili v Garruk conflict? I didn’t remember there being so much detail, but I didn’t seek out info beyond the cards at the time. Would like to read it myself now it’s getting so much discussion.
In all seiouly wizards is on a hiatus with Garruk because redit users think Triumph of Ferocity is ofensive and the character should be killed to never be remembered again. I don't want to start a controversity but outrage about minimal and ridicule things is a thing in the "mtg community" even Jin Davis and PewDiePie can't escape the outrage.
Nah, no way. This is the viewpoint of someone who lives in the Internet commenter fishbowl. This is not representative of the greater MtG Community. Garruk is fine.
Before reading this thread, looking at the pics on wizards.com, I definitely thought #4 had an Elspeth vibe. Coming back from the dead with a staff instead of a sword seems like a very reasonable arc of transformation. The objections to hair color seem inconsequential to me: it’s an unusual stained glass art treatment, she’s back from the dead, the artist could’ve colored it differently by mistake, etc. I’m not sure I’d stake a real bet on it being Elspeth, but I’d definitely not be surprised.
Garruk not being here upsets me. I don’t want to hear any story justifications. They got every single one of the classic, early Planeswalkers in here except him. Boo.
I think people are being too rigid in some of their color predictions. Wizards has shown great freedom in changing color mixes on Planeswalkers in the past. Nothing about AVR Tamiyo would’ve suggested Bant colors later, Sarkhan literally has a different color mix in each of his four incarnations, etc. Bolas is the only Planeswalker whose color mix I’d consider sacred, with Karn in second place; and I wouldn’t be surprised to see versions of even them with non-typical color identities.
I still think too many people are getting carried away with the notion that the cards in the set will be largely relevant. I expect the clear majority of cards to be filler (makes it a good limited format, don’t ya know!) as with every other set ever printed. We probably have room for three dozen impactful cards at best.
The problem is the original swords are all too powerful for Standard, so if we wanted to get the other half through Standard, they would be weaker. Most people want a compete cycle of similar strength, so this is a much better way to deliver on that request.
Edit: also worth noting that Mirrodin is now New Phyrexia.
Not really too powerful for Standard. A card like Abrade in the format is more than enough to keep them in check. Any time someone spends 5 mana on them just to have the creature removed at instant speed is a significant set back.
War and Peace was the sword for that Standard. Early on, people liked Feast and Famine, but the Squadron Hawk and especially the Delver decks evolved into using mostly War and Peace in their final form. Body and Mind wasn’t used at all.
I hope not. As much as swords are cool for commander/casual 'wasting' 5 mythic slots for cards that are not quite modern playable would be a shame. They're better off being left for an equipment matters commander precon or a battlebond style product
Bear in mind there is no realistic chance that a majority of the set is strong in modern, even at Mythic rarity. That is simply not how Magic sets work. Nobody is playing Balefire Dragon in Modern just because it was a Mythic Rare in Ultimate Masters.
I’m pretty sure Rosewater has commented on it in his podcast. But he almost doesn’t have to. All sets are standalone now and the guild mechanics are not evergreen (only Convoke is deciduous), so there’s little chance of them showing up. I can’t imagine a standalone set with 10 unique mechanics AND a boatload of Planeswalkers fitting their modern limits on set complexity.
It does raise the interesting question of what mechanics we will get. People have wondered how Planeswalkers will be kept in check in limited; there could be a mechanic for it. Imagine “Mage-Hunter X” which is “when this creature attacks, it deals X damage to each Planeswalker an opponent controls.”
Slightly different when you remove all guild mechanics.
Traditional mainstays like Bolas, Ugin, Teferi, Jace, Liliana and Karn are the most likely to be Mythic or possibly Rare. It makes much more sense to put new Planeswalkers are lower power levels: they aren’t popular yet and, if any become very popular here, they can be promoted to traditional Mythic Planeswalkers in later sets.
Another possibility is to make conspicuously outside Planeswalkers weaker. They could make the powerful ones those native to Ravnica and those seen to have been here for a while.
I disagree with this premise. It is possible to be unjustifiably outraged. If a white supremacist were outraged by Teferi, would you say that is reasonable? It is fair to say not all reasons for being offended are justified. Of course, it’s not generally a good topic for Internet discussion to discuss whether an individual’s outrage toward a specific thing is good or bad. But I think your statement of logical truth is inaccurate in this case.
Esper control is already flirting with Superfriends status. If they make the planeswalkers in this set so weak that only 1 or 2 out of 36 are standard-playable, players will be outraged. You can’t sell a set with the promise of a million planeswalkers and then make them all suck. At that point, you simply don’t make the planeswalker set.
Elspeth returning from the dead would be a good opportunity for this, though even then WB seems more likely than monoblack. The general presentation of Planeswalkers heavily implies inherent power over learned technique (ala D&D Wizards). The moment of sparking is described as a transformation from within. I think PWs are intended to have an intrinsic color identity because of this. It can shift to a degree, but fully reversing it seems out of concept.
Definitely, especially the part where it’s an enchantment. But Wizards does need to serve the player base that loves old, quirky cards. Part of eternal formats is exploiting the variations in design technology over the lifespan of the game.
They could let Standard have a few months of superfriends and then Big G could bring the beatstick to all the weaklings who think they’re cool.
A nice contrast for the people saying #4 can’t be Elspeth because her hair isn’t the right shade of brown.
Nah, no way. This is the viewpoint of someone who lives in the Internet commenter fishbowl. This is not representative of the greater MtG Community. Garruk is fine.
Garruk not being here upsets me. I don’t want to hear any story justifications. They got every single one of the classic, early Planeswalkers in here except him. Boo.
I think people are being too rigid in some of their color predictions. Wizards has shown great freedom in changing color mixes on Planeswalkers in the past. Nothing about AVR Tamiyo would’ve suggested Bant colors later, Sarkhan literally has a different color mix in each of his four incarnations, etc. Bolas is the only Planeswalker whose color mix I’d consider sacred, with Karn in second place; and I wouldn’t be surprised to see versions of even them with non-typical color identities.
Not really too powerful for Standard. A card like Abrade in the format is more than enough to keep them in check. Any time someone spends 5 mana on them just to have the creature removed at instant speed is a significant set back.
War and Peace was the sword for that Standard. Early on, people liked Feast and Famine, but the Squadron Hawk and especially the Delver decks evolved into using mostly War and Peace in their final form. Body and Mind wasn’t used at all.
Bear in mind there is no realistic chance that a majority of the set is strong in modern, even at Mythic rarity. That is simply not how Magic sets work. Nobody is playing Balefire Dragon in Modern just because it was a Mythic Rare in Ultimate Masters.
We already have the mill sword in Sword of Body and Mind!