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  • posted a message on A bit of math discussion: How many of X do you put in a deck before you will play Y
    Quote from darrenhabib »
    I'm pointing out that many people assume a particular thing from Crucible, and that they can put it in almost any deck, and that it instantly means that they get a land drop every turn for the rest of the game, this was highlighted by the below user...
    Quote from Dormammu »
    While I agree Crucible of Worlds is a bit overrated by the larger MtG community, it’s been a bit unfairly maligned in this thread. It does have good uses. I run it in my monored deck, where there are four fetchlands and tons of mountains all those fetches can hit. In a deck like this, Crucible is essentially “3: never miss a land drop,” which I absolutely consider worthwhile. Monoblue would benefit similarly (coincidentally, the other best color for artifacts). The upside of reusing a Strip Mine is pure gravy.

    So it's important to make it clear to players, that this is not true all the time. This is not an argument, it's a fact.

    Couldn’t disagree with you more. You may have noticed I agree with the general premise that it’s often overrated, but I was refuting early statements that implied it was universally poor.

    I make heavy use of artifacts in monored (which I think is common), so I can exploit synergies there. Land ramp is weakness the color and fetches do help hit land drops. 80% of the time I draw Crucible, I will already have a fetch land so it absolutely does become “hit all your land drops.” And being a deck that is light on recursion, I’ve never drawn graveyard hate; obviously global graveyard hate can hit me incidentally, but I don’t think that’s the point. Random other synergies like reusing Strip Mine lands and trading it with Goblin Welder push it well over the utility threshold.

    Crucible is quite good in the deck and it’s not a dedicated land reanimation deck.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on Are there cards you don't play for power reasons?
    Quote from Weebo »
    Quote from Taleran »
    Also having no limits on the cards you play doesn't automatically remove those limits from how you build decks and choose to play the game.
    Can you elaborate on this? My take would be that limiting how you build decks is limiting the cards that you play and I'm curious how you distinguish those.
    I assume the point here is that playing Kiki-Jiki with or without one of those comborific creatures we all know and love is very different. One way is a highly flexible value tool, while the other is a true infinite combo that ends the game on the spot if not answered.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on Incidental Lifegain
    Venser’s Journal is a little janky, due to cost, but I’ve seen it do good work in a Zedruu, the Greathearted deck.

    Faith’s Fetters is the definition of incidental life gain and is flexible enough as a Pacifism-variant to be good in Commander.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on A bit of math discussion: How many of X do you put in a deck before you will play Y
    While I agree Crucible of Worlds is a bit overrated by the larger MtG community, it’s been a bit unfairly maligned in this thread. It does have good uses. I run it in my monored deck, where there are four fetchlands and tons of mountains all those fetches can hit. In a deck like this, Crucible is essentially “3: never miss a land drop,” which I absolutely consider worthwhile. Monoblue would benefit similarly (coincidentally, the other best color for artifacts). The upside of reusing a Strip Mine is pure gravy.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on How safe do you consider artifact ramp
    I’m not sure I’ve ever seen someone spend single target removal on a mana rock. I’ve seen Sol Rings stolen. And they absolutely contribute to the density of targets that causes someone to use a larger effect, such as overloaded Vandalblast or Austere Command.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on Are there cards you don't play for power reasons?
    Quote from greywyn »
    No. Anything goes.

    Echoing a post above: if you don’t like a particular card or strategy, punish it. Destroy it. Disallow it (with cards, not house rules).

    I’ve yet to run into any real problems with this approach.

    This is the cEDH approach. Nothing wrong with the playstyle but I think it’s pretty clear a large majority of play groups don’t want the game to play out this way.

    In my case, the trouble with it is that the card pool dwindles over time as everyone’s lists get closer and closer to the Top 25 lists on this site. I like EDH for the much greater variety than many other formats and anything goes kind of kills that.

    Especially when “almost anything goes” allows for orders of magnitude more quantity of viable cards. But your group has to be ok with fuzzy guidelines for deck building and that won’t work for everyone.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on So what could WotC realistically do to help white in Commander?
    I’m not sure if it would solve White’s issues, but since the issue of White staying true to color pie has come up I find it disappointing that White’s most powerful piece of the color pie is poorly defended. I am referring to “setting rules.”

    Stranglehold is a card that seems like it should be White to me. The first clause is clearly White. I assume the second clause is what made it Red since extra turns are a Blue effect and Red is an enemy color to Blue, but I would’ve preferred a card like this be White based on definining rules for other players and forcing them to “play fair.”

    Similarly, I don’t understand the color choice for Leovold, Emissary of Trest. Drawing cards can always be justified as Blue, though basing it on targeting your permanents feels more Green. Either way, the one card per turn is very clearly a White thing and Black seems to have no relation to these abilities at all. Would the card have been banned if it had been WU or GW instead of the three most powerful colors in the format? (P.S. also not sure why Muldrotha, the Gravetide has Blue)
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on The right way to play
    Quote from Weebo »
    If everyone's deck is constructed according to format rules and is at an appropriate power level for the group, they're all good. There's no "right" strategy for an EDH game.

    The part about appropriate power level for the group is key. The only right way to play EDH is to make sure all players are on the same page as far as power level. Beyond that, any strategy should be viable. If you’re playing with friends and certain players in your group really really hate a certain tactic or combo, it might be worth avoiding that but it’s a personal judgment call.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on Lazav the Multifarious question
    Providing a little more info, no card with a standard card back can transform. This is a function of the physical card. Any time a non-double-faced card would transform, it simply doesn’t.

    This question mostly comes up with clone-type effects, but there are other edge cases. Note the reminder text on Moonmist, as the card would cause this problem a lot otherwise.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on So what could WotC realistically do to help white in Commander?
    Quote from Reaper9889 »
    It needs to say that it does not return cards named Seal of Faith’s Reward. Right now it is really broken. I think it would also be more elegant to return eot instead of that sac with no effect. (i.e. you make it sac: at end of turn, return all permanent cards not named Seal of Faith’s Reward put into gy from battlefield this turn - maybe rewritten to use until end of turn)

    Agreed on all counts. I definitely threw out the idea as I woke up in the morning and didn’t think about it returning itself. That’s an obvious fail on my part. I also like your EOT idea. It makes it so you can’t ambush someone with instant-speed permanents in response to something, which wouldn’t feel very white. The protection is the important part and EOT does that nicely.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on [[Primer]] Norin the Wary - Heads I win, Tails you lose.
    Quote from osieorb18 »
    First off, I'm glad you liked my build! Thanks for seeking me out. Unfortunately, I haven't been playing a whole lot of Magic recently, but looking back at semi-recent sets in terms of this decklist:

    Thanks for taking the time to respond. I will go over your list carefully while considering changes to mine. A few follow-up questions!

    No opinion on Goblin Cratermaker in your GRN impressions?

    What do you think of Warping Wail? I am considering it mostly as “Counter target giant dumb wincon,” but all three of its modes have other utility uses and your list has 16 C sources.

    No haste on Magus of the Wheel is fine. Who’s blowing their removal on this guy? Occasionally he may eat a wrath necessitated by someone else’s board, but I bet it rarely comes up. I assume you hate it when you draw him with a small hand and have to wait a turn?
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on [[Primer]] Norin the Wary - Heads I win, Tails you lose.
    Quote from osieorb18 »
    Quote from cromonolith »
    Quote from osieorb18 »
    In my regular, ever-tightening build, I'm not feeling it.

    Does your ever-tightening build happen to be anywhere online? I haven't looked through every page of this thread, but I'm curious to see it.

    I haven't posted it here, if I recall correctly, or it's at least been some time. Still missing some cards that I want to test (such as Curse of Opulence and Magus of the Wheel), and I definitely need to up my creature count, but here goes:

    osieorb18!

    I built a Norin deck some five years ago heavily inspired by Gaka’s list. After a couple years of no EDH, I have a local group again and I’m looking to rebuild and retune. Your list is one of the most interesting takes I’ve seen. Any updates on changes you’ve made in the last year since you posted? I need ALL the ideas! Smile
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on So what could WotC realistically do to help white in Commander?
    I still believe Faith’s Reward is a good effect for white that could be repurposed in a more Commander-friendly way. Keeping up that mana turn after turn is too high a price for wipe protection.

    Seal of Faith’s Reward
    3W
    Enchantment

    0: Sacrifice ~.

    When ~ leaves the battlefield, return to the battlefield all permanent cards in your graveyard and exile that left the battlefield this turn.

    This should provide board wipe protection that includes exile effects and effects which remove the enchantment itself.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on Tired of EDH, Lets Play Kitchen Table
    I’m not sure how helpful this is for the OP (since I’m not actually following your rules), but something to consider if you like EDH but want a change and a more casual direction:

    Adapt Brawl.

    Many people who first heard about Brawl and were worried about rotation proposed making decks based on any standard period rather than the current one only. This could be the kernel for a cool set of multiplayer decks.

    For example, you could make a set of Ravnica decks with guild leaders as commanders using cards from all three blocks.

    You could make sets based around the friendly color-pair tribes of Innistrad.

    Basically take any subset of three to six sets that supports a theme in a few colors and build a Brawl deck using those sets. I think you would have a lot of options here. You could start building a few, tune them based on play results and add more over time with a nearly unlimited pool to choose from.
    Posted in: Casual & Multiplayer Formats
  • posted a message on So what could WotC realistically do to help white in Commander?
    I think it’s honestly ok to limit white’s card draw in EDH because colorless options are so abundant (as ISBPathfinder said).

    No white spell would ever be more efficient than Mind’s Eye, Trading Post, Staff of Nin or the Immortal Sun (much less Memory Jar), so why bother? In a way, this works out perfectly as it means white can get these effects at the cost of being vulnerable to artifact destruction. That is not such a bad trade off.

    I also agree with darrenhabib that more Spirit of the Labyrinth effects would be good.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
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