My focus was on cards I could live without. Making white more focussed on combo and archetype play has made it a lot more successful. So the first round of cuts go to cards that don't meet that description.
Interesting. Was white always less successful for your group, or did it start lagging behind when you increased the card count and started focusing on archetype play in the other colors? In other words, would you keep the white archetype cards if your cube went down to 540/450/360?
Also: just saw you cut Arc Lightning and Flames of the Firebrand. You were probably the biggest proponent of those dividable burn spells on these boards. Have you found them to be underperforming of late, or are they just cuts because you wanted more combo/archetype pieces?
Wow, interesting change! I'm surprised that you didn't re-add Deep Analysis. When I asked you about the cut a few months ago you said that it was the first card you were planning on putting back in. Did your, uh, analysis of the card change in the interim?
Anyway, I'm really interested in your changes to white. Would you mind walking me through your thinking on the cuts to Thalia, Heretic Cathar and Spectral Procession? Pretty surprised to see both on the block for you, considering they're in most smaller lists, including mine. (Imposing Sovereign, too, but much less so.)
Dang dude, I'm surprised you finally joined our hivemind and cut Deep Analysis. What prompted the change?
Also, I see you dropped Blast Zone and Voracious Hydra, two new-ish cards that were generally pretty well regarded around here when they first dropped. Why do you think they were underperforming?
Fair enough. I was asking about what you said before the offending comment, but no worries.
I think the following reddit thread does a really good job at fully fleshing out what I've stated here if you want to go more in depth. The jist being that immediate value/resilience in the face of removal is important but so is impact if your opponent can't deal with it. The higher up the CMC chain you go the more impact you have to get in exchange for lacking some immediate value/resilience.
Thanks so much, BW! I dropped off the map for the last few rounds of voting, but I was paying attention throughout. I'm really grateful for all your hard work, and I agree that we got some fun, useful data.
And thanks everyone else who participated! It's been lots of fun.
1. Wrenn and Six
2. Dragonlord Atarka
3. Bloodbraid Elf
4. Talisman of Impulse
5. Gruul Signet
6. Tattermunge Maniac
7. Xenagos the Reveler
8. Sarkhan Vol
9. Huntmaster of the Fells
10. Arlinn Kord
1. Knight of Autumn
2. Dryad Militant
3. Kitchen Finks
4. Talisman of Unity
5. Selesnya Signet
6. Nature's Chant
7. Mirari's Wake
8. Voice of Resurgence
9. Knight of the Reliquary
10. Qasali Pridemage
1. Ancestral Recall
2. Time Walk
3. Mana Drain
4. Tinker
5. Upheaval
6. Opposition
7. Jace the Mind Sculptor
8. Treachery
9. Show and Tell
10. Mystic Confluence
11. Snapcaster Mage
12. Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
13. Vendilion Clique
14. Fact or Fiction
15. Dig Through Time
16. Mystical Tutor
17. Control Magic
18. Glen Elendra Archmage
19. True Name Nemesis
20. Time Spiral
Basically, I'd rather ask a subjective question that provides people with useful information than an attempt to create an objective prompt ...that winds up generating useless data.
No one but you thinks the data is useless, as far as I can tell. (Unless you're using "useless" to be synonymous with "statistically insignificant", which is true but also needlessly pedantic). In fact, I can tell you quite honestly that the previous iterations of this project were in fact VERY useful, specifically to me.
Here are some of the benefits of doing a Card A > Card B, all else equal:
1) It helps me get a better understanding of this specific community, which is nice because I've been a part of it for years now. And it's also useful information to have when considering card evaluations, especially during spoiler season;
2) It creates a reference guide for new cubers to build their cubes by identifying which cards to include should they want powerful interactions, or which to avoid if they want to nerf power level to hell (even if it doesn't have an N of 10,000, it's still an awesome resource);
3) During drafts and sealed decks, it helps people who don't sit down to cube as often as you do, who might not have as strong a sense about the power level of cards. I can speak from experience that my draft and sealed decks got a lot better once I really studied those previous P1P1 community lists.
And that's just off the top of my head. There are surely more that I'm not considering right now.
Echoing this because I agree with all of it (that Wild Mongrel point is making me reconsider my classification strategy), and also to wholeheartedly agree with the use of spoiler tags. Anchoring is a real thing, people!
P1P1 or most powerful or best are all wildly subjective, and completely contingent on the list you're drawing the data from, and the playgroup you're drafting it with.
I mean, "favorite cards" or whatever is way more subjective, since by definition it's nothing but personal opinion. At least P1P1 has some basis in objectivity w/r/t perceived power level.
More to the point, I don't know what the point would be of the project you're proposing. Like, if it's just "I want everyone to know about this cool card", that's fine, but why not just have a big thread about people's pet cards? Or hell, just make an SCD about it. God knows this place could use some more activity outside of spoiler season. But what difference is it to anyone that Parallax Wave and Porphyry Nodes are two of my favorite cards? Who does that help? And why do we need to have a vote on it?
Anyway, if P1P1 is such a difficult thing for people to grok (I really don't think it is, but whatever), it's not hard to come up with a different way of thinking about it. Something like this:
Edit: Calibretto said it better. Would I take Card A over Card B, all else equal.
Interesting. Was white always less successful for your group, or did it start lagging behind when you increased the card count and started focusing on archetype play in the other colors? In other words, would you keep the white archetype cards if your cube went down to 540/450/360?
Also: just saw you cut Arc Lightning and Flames of the Firebrand. You were probably the biggest proponent of those dividable burn spells on these boards. Have you found them to be underperforming of late, or are they just cuts because you wanted more combo/archetype pieces?
Anyway, I'm really interested in your changes to white. Would you mind walking me through your thinking on the cuts to Thalia, Heretic Cathar and Spectral Procession? Pretty surprised to see both on the block for you, considering they're in most smaller lists, including mine. (Imposing Sovereign, too, but much less so.)
Also, I see you dropped Blast Zone and Voracious Hydra, two new-ish cards that were generally pretty well regarded around here when they first dropped. Why do you think they were underperforming?
Link?
And thanks everyone else who participated! It's been lots of fun.
1. Fractured Identity
2. Teferi, Hero of Dominaria
3. Geist of Saint Traft
4. Talisman of Progress
5. Azorius Signet
6. Supreme Verdict
7. Dovin, Grand Arbiter
8. Spell Queller
9. Teferi, Time Raveler
10. Reflector Mage
1. Baleful Strix
2. Psychatog
3. Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
4. Talisman of Dominance
5. Dimir Signet
6. The Scarab God
7. Dragonlord Silumgar
8. Hostage Taker
9 .Thief of Sanity
10. Shadowmage Infiltrator
1. Rakdos Cackler
2. Kolaghan's Command
3. Daretti, Ingenious Iconoclast
4. Talisman of Indulgence
5. Rakdos Signet
6. Dreadbore
7. Judith, the Scourge Diva
8. Terminate
9. Vial Smasher the Fierce
10. Falkenrath Aristocrat
1. Wrenn and Six
2. Dragonlord Atarka
3. Bloodbraid Elf
4. Talisman of Impulse
5. Gruul Signet
6. Tattermunge Maniac
7. Xenagos the Reveler
8. Sarkhan Vol
9. Huntmaster of the Fells
10. Arlinn Kord
1. Knight of Autumn
2. Dryad Militant
3. Kitchen Finks
4. Talisman of Unity
5. Selesnya Signet
6. Nature's Chant
7. Mirari's Wake
8. Voice of Resurgence
9. Knight of the Reliquary
10. Qasali Pridemage
2. Goblin Guide
3. Wildfire
4. Chandra, Torch of Defiance
5. Fiery Confluence
6. Koth of the Hammer
7. Wheel of Fortune
8. Young Pyromancer
9. Sneak Attack
10. Lightning Bolt
11. Goblin Rabblemaster
12. Purphoros of the Forge
13. Greater Gargadon
14. Imperial Recruiter
15. Thundermaw Hellkite
16. Daretti, Scrap Savant
17. Kari Zev, Skyship Raider
18. Faithless Looting
19. Feldon of the Third Path
20. Grim Lavamancer
1 Mind Twist
2 Recurring Nightmare
3 Demonic Tutor
4 Vampiric Tutor
5 Liliana of the Veil
6 Toxic Deluge
7 Braids, Cabal Minion
8 Imperial Seal
9 Damnation
10 Dark Confidant
11 Pack Rat
12 Entomb
13 Thoughtseize
14 Grave Titan
15 Griselbrand
16 Bitterblossom
17 Dark Ritual
18 Reanimate
19 Duress
20 Shriekmaw
2. Time Walk
3. Mana Drain
4. Tinker
5. Upheaval
6. Opposition
7. Jace the Mind Sculptor
8. Treachery
9. Show and Tell
10. Mystic Confluence
11. Snapcaster Mage
12. Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
13. Vendilion Clique
14. Fact or Fiction
15. Dig Through Time
16. Mystical Tutor
17. Control Magic
18. Glen Elendra Archmage
19. True Name Nemesis
20. Time Spiral
1. Balance
2. Armageddon
3. Land Tax
4. Elspeth, Knight-Errant
5. Moat
6. Wrath of God
7. Swords to Plowshares
8. Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
9. Monastery Mentor
10. Mana Tithe
11. Gideon Jura
12. Restoration Angel
13. Mother of Runes
14. Hero of Bladehold
15. Path to Exile
16. Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
17. Parallax Wave
18. Brimaz, King of Oreskos
19. Stoneforge Mystic
20. Enlightened Tutor
No one but you thinks the data is useless, as far as I can tell. (Unless you're using "useless" to be synonymous with "statistically insignificant", which is true but also needlessly pedantic). In fact, I can tell you quite honestly that the previous iterations of this project were in fact VERY useful, specifically to me.
Here are some of the benefits of doing a Card A > Card B, all else equal:
1) It helps me get a better understanding of this specific community, which is nice because I've been a part of it for years now. And it's also useful information to have when considering card evaluations, especially during spoiler season;
2) It creates a reference guide for new cubers to build their cubes by identifying which cards to include should they want powerful interactions, or which to avoid if they want to nerf power level to hell (even if it doesn't have an N of 10,000, it's still an awesome resource);
3) During drafts and sealed decks, it helps people who don't sit down to cube as often as you do, who might not have as strong a sense about the power level of cards. I can speak from experience that my draft and sealed decks got a lot better once I really studied those previous P1P1 community lists.
And that's just off the top of my head. There are surely more that I'm not considering right now.
Echoing this because I agree with all of it (that Wild Mongrel point is making me reconsider my classification strategy), and also to wholeheartedly agree with the use of spoiler tags. Anchoring is a real thing, people!
I mean, "favorite cards" or whatever is way more subjective, since by definition it's nothing but personal opinion. At least P1P1 has some basis in objectivity w/r/t perceived power level.
More to the point, I don't know what the point would be of the project you're proposing. Like, if it's just "I want everyone to know about this cool card", that's fine, but why not just have a big thread about people's pet cards? Or hell, just make an SCD about it. God knows this place could use some more activity outside of spoiler season. But what difference is it to anyone that Parallax Wave and Porphyry Nodes are two of my favorite cards? Who does that help? And why do we need to have a vote on it?
Anyway, if P1P1 is such a difficult thing for people to grok (I really don't think it is, but whatever), it's not hard to come up with a different way of thinking about it. Something like this:
Edit: Calibretto said it better. Would I take Card A over Card B, all else equal.