End result: Ink-Treader, B's two creatures and C's two creature are all dealt 3 damage each. A's other creature and B's two creatures take no damage.
Hi, thanks for responding. I believe you meant to say:
"End result: Ink-Treader, C's two creatures and D's two creature are all dealt 3 damage each. A's other creature and B's two creatures take no damage."
The official gatherer page for Ink-Treader Nephilim has the following ruling listed:
Even though you control the copies, the ability cares about who cast the original spell when determining which other creatures that spell could target. If the original spell has a targeting restriction that refers to "an opponent," the copies will see that from the perspective of the original spell's controller. For example, if your opponent casts a spell that says "Destroy target creature an opponent controls" targeting your Ink-Treader Nephilim, its ability will create a copy for each other creature the original spell could target: the rest of your creatures. However, since you control the copies, all the copies will be countered for having illegal targets.
I find this to be unclear. If, in a 4-player game, the following situation occurs:
- Player A controls Ink-Treader and one other creature
- Player B controls 2 creatures
- Players C & D each control 2 creatures
And the following spells are cast:
- Player B casts a spell that reads "Deals 3 damage to target creature an opponent controls", and targets Ink-Treader.
- This in turn creates 7 copies of that spell, targeting each of the other creatures on the board.
The way that the ruling reads, only Player A's other creature is a valid target for the copies. However, this seems wrong to me. I expect that all creatures except for those controlled by Player B will receive damage, as they should be considered valid targets when checked at resolution (each belong to an opponent of Player B). Is this correct? How should this actually resolve?
So, I'm kinda bored. I've got all kinds of cool competitive stuff to play, but like others I tend to enjoy things that make for cool-but-unusual game progression. I've done the actual "group hug" thing before. I've built the hippo, with all of the staples that are expected with it - Braids, Hunted Wumpus, Noble Benefactor, Heartbeat of Spring, etc., etc.. It's cool, but as many of you already know, all it does is amplify the existing state of the game. Decks that were going to win will simply win moar as a result of insane draw, available mana, and permanent cheats. This was fun for a time, but after a while it gets kinda lame.
All that said, I still want to make a "group hug-ish" deck that actually impacts the state of the game in an un-lame way. Recently, I've become super interested in the "any player may" cards, like the following:
I really love the idea that my board can enable players to manipulate the board in ways that they would be unable to with their own decks. The new "Will of the Council" mechanic in M15 can also be kinda cool for this, though I think only two cards work atm:
I'm really interested to hear about other cards you think fit this theme that I may be missing. Anything that allows my stuff in impact other player's board, encourages interaction, or brings new dynamics to the game without making it an out-of-control free for all. I'm also super curious to hear commander recommendations. So far, I'm entertaining:
I have been looking on multiple sites for a day or so now, and I can't seem to find it so I need a sanity check. I believe there is some type of permanent that will make all creatures in play an Illusion type, and they gain "if this creature becomes the target of a spell or ability, sacrifice it." Am I insane, or is there such a card?
Just as the title says; I'm looking for something else to play in EDH that hasn't been seen in my meta. I want some cool stuff to happen. Stuff that comes from cards I haven't even heard of, or seen until you showed them to me. The kinda stuff that makes for legendary games, and brings people back for more. First, a little background:
How we got here...
We have a mixed meta of a few Timmies, around two of us Johnnies, and a lot of Spikes. Despite this, however, there is a Johnny in almost all of us; nearly everyone has something new to debut when we get together to play. That said, things are getting kinda stale, and it's time to mix it up a bit. While the commanders change, the overall feel of the games does not. At this point, myself and one other player are working to one-up each other with regard to creativity in hopes that we can lead by example. We're both really tired of playing against goodstuff.dec
A bit about me...
I'm a complete Johnny at heart. I love to research and see what others are doing, what works and what doesn't, and I have a horrible, horrible weakness for amazing flavor. A mostly complete list of my decks can be found here, but at present, I'm playing:
Zedruu the Greathearted - This is my favorite deck. I'm donating stuff that screws my opponents, until the CA it generates is insurmountable. In the process of foiling this out as it's hands down my fav.
Phelddagrif - Tried and true group hug. It's really not as fun as it sounds, truthfully. I love the deck, and I'll never take it apart, but instead of the "crazy boardstates" you want to get, you just end up helping those who don't need it, and hurting those who do more often than not...which devolves into hissy fits.
Ib Halfheart, Goblin Tactician - Goblin suicide. Proliferate your horde of crazy little f-ckers and attack constantly doing as much damage as possible until you win, or die trying.
Patron of the Moon - Moonfolk-tribal-esque deck focused on land manipulation and control. SO SLOW but SO AWESOME once it starts running.
Doran, the Siege Tower - My first love, newly rebuilt. High-power-based control and toughness beats.
So, to the issue at hand...
I'm bored. I want some fun, cool stuff to play. I found Dream Halls today, and that is definitely something I'll be picking up. Grip of Chaos is another. My goal is to build/play a deck that's full of stuff that's quirky, does things nobody would expect, and creates unique situations WITHOUT pissing everyone off. Cards like Warp World, Thieves' Auction, Eye of the Storm, Knowledge Pool, and similar always come up in these conversations. I feel like these cards are VERY well known, and create situations where it's easier to concede and scoop to play another game than to resolve the stupidity of their interactions.
So, all of that said...what are your favorite. seldom-played, kinda random-yet-really-awesome cards in EDH?
So, how is this playing? I just put my Space Goat together and I love the way it plays. Sadly, my meta is very wary of control, so I've had to stay political with my card choices and the manner in which I play it. I imagine she draws a lot of hate when playing a stax build.
Are you even using the Goat, or just wanted access to rwu?
In the end, pretty much any general can be built on a budget if you limit yourself to it.
Pretty much this.
When you look at the expensive cards, you can usually find a lower-cost alternative that does the same thing, but not quite as well. Perhaps the CMC is higher, or the drawback is a little worse, but the mechanic is there.
- If you're really (really!) playing group hug, then you have no wincons and are happy with being #2. There are a couple of ways you can still pull a win out with general damage, but the point of, and the fun of group hug is that you legitimately don't care if you win, which makes playing the deck a totally different experience. You can make the big plays, and splash stuff without having to worry about if it will survive a turn.
- You should reconsider the sheer amount of draw you have in that deck. I found that running a lot of draw in a hippo deck is probably the most effective multiplayer mill strategy available.
People will have plenty of cards. Think about other ways to ref the gameplay.
Hi, thanks for responding. I believe you meant to say:
"End result: Ink-Treader, C's two creatures and D's two creature are all dealt 3 damage each. A's other creature and B's two creatures take no damage."
Correct?
I find this to be unclear. If, in a 4-player game, the following situation occurs:
- Player A controls Ink-Treader and one other creature
- Player B controls 2 creatures
- Players C & D each control 2 creatures
And the following spells are cast:
- Player B casts a spell that reads "Deals 3 damage to target creature an opponent controls", and targets Ink-Treader.
- This in turn creates 7 copies of that spell, targeting each of the other creatures on the board.
The way that the ruling reads, only Player A's other creature is a valid target for the copies. However, this seems wrong to me. I expect that all creatures except for those controlled by Player B will receive damage, as they should be considered valid targets when checked at resolution (each belong to an opponent of Player B). Is this correct? How should this actually resolve?
All that said, I still want to make a "group hug-ish" deck that actually impacts the state of the game in an un-lame way. Recently, I've become super interested in the "any player may" cards, like the following:
Excavation
Ifh-Biff Efreet
Infinite Hourglass
Land's Edge
Sailmonger
Samite Sanctuary
Saproling Cluster
Squallmonger
Task Mage Assembly
Tidal Control
Well of Knowledge
Warmonger
Wishmonger
I really love the idea that my board can enable players to manipulate the board in ways that they would be unable to with their own decks. The new "Will of the Council" mechanic in M15 can also be kinda cool for this, though I think only two cards work atm:
Coercive Portal
Split Decision
In addition to this type of stuff, I found another 2 cards I think promote interaction in a pretty cool way:
Angel's Trumpet
Sands of Time
I'm really interested to hear about other cards you think fit this theme that I may be missing. Anything that allows my stuff in impact other player's board, encourages interaction, or brings new dynamics to the game without making it an out-of-control free for all. I'm also super curious to hear commander recommendations. So far, I'm entertaining:
Gahiji, Honored One
Angus MacKenzie
Edric, Spymaster of Trest
Ink-Treader Nephilim
Any help is appreciated!
Thought I was losing it - thanks for making me feel better. ^.^
How we got here...
We have a mixed meta of a few Timmies, around two of us Johnnies, and a lot of Spikes. Despite this, however, there is a Johnny in almost all of us; nearly everyone has something new to debut when we get together to play. That said, things are getting kinda stale, and it's time to mix it up a bit. While the commanders change, the overall feel of the games does not. At this point, myself and one other player are working to one-up each other with regard to creativity in hopes that we can lead by example. We're both really tired of playing against goodstuff.dec
A bit about me...
I'm a complete Johnny at heart. I love to research and see what others are doing, what works and what doesn't, and I have a horrible, horrible weakness for amazing flavor. A mostly complete list of my decks can be found here, but at present, I'm playing:
Zedruu the Greathearted - This is my favorite deck. I'm donating stuff that screws my opponents, until the CA it generates is insurmountable. In the process of foiling this out as it's hands down my fav.
Phelddagrif - Tried and true group hug. It's really not as fun as it sounds, truthfully. I love the deck, and I'll never take it apart, but instead of the "crazy boardstates" you want to get, you just end up helping those who don't need it, and hurting those who do more often than not...which devolves into hissy fits.
Ib Halfheart, Goblin Tactician - Goblin suicide. Proliferate your horde of crazy little f-ckers and attack constantly doing as much damage as possible until you win, or die trying.
Patron of the Moon - Moonfolk-tribal-esque deck focused on land manipulation and control. SO SLOW but SO AWESOME once it starts running.
Trostani, Selesnya's Voice - Super aggro + lifegain? lolwut? This is my spike deck.
Doran, the Siege Tower - My first love, newly rebuilt. High-power-based control and toughness beats.
So, to the issue at hand...
I'm bored. I want some fun, cool stuff to play. I found Dream Halls today, and that is definitely something I'll be picking up. Grip of Chaos is another. My goal is to build/play a deck that's full of stuff that's quirky, does things nobody would expect, and creates unique situations WITHOUT pissing everyone off. Cards like Warp World, Thieves' Auction, Eye of the Storm, Knowledge Pool, and similar always come up in these conversations. I feel like these cards are VERY well known, and create situations where it's easier to concede and scoop to play another game than to resolve the stupidity of their interactions.
So, all of that said...what are your favorite. seldom-played, kinda random-yet-really-awesome cards in EDH?
Are you even using the Goat, or just wanted access to rwu?
Pretty much this.
When you look at the expensive cards, you can usually find a lower-cost alternative that does the same thing, but not quite as well. Perhaps the CMC is higher, or the drawback is a little worse, but the mechanic is there.
- If you're really (really!) playing group hug, then you have no wincons and are happy with being #2. There are a couple of ways you can still pull a win out with general damage, but the point of, and the fun of group hug is that you legitimately don't care if you win, which makes playing the deck a totally different experience. You can make the big plays, and splash stuff without having to worry about if it will survive a turn.
- You should reconsider the sheer amount of draw you have in that deck. I found that running a lot of draw in a hippo deck is probably the most effective multiplayer mill strategy available.
People will have plenty of cards. Think about other ways to ref the gameplay.
Have fun, and happy hippoing!