Well there were 4 "Counters Company" decks in the top 16 at the SCG Modern Classic this weekend. You have to take Classics with a grain of salt but at the very least it's still reasonable.
Team Open is also grain-of-salt-y but there was one in top 32 and one Knightfall in Top 16. I only point that out because some of the Company lists are running KotR in place of Finks, which could point to that card being stronger.
I think Modern is just wide open right now and there's a lot of variance in the meta.
I think what sticks out to me is the amount of noncreature spells in a CoCo deck. You have 27 creatures and 10 of them are dorks. Being able to hold up mana to either Spell Queller or CoCo (or better yet, CoCo into Queller) seems really strong, but you lose a lot of value hits. Still, it must have worked out for him this weekend.
3 Company Combo decks in the top 32 of the recent SCG Open, one in the top 16. Not the most encouraging result, but the deck seems to be holding up alright. The top 16 deck is pretty standard but the other ones switch it up a bit.
I played in a SCG IQ event this past weekend (about 400 players) and went 7-3, making 40th place. This wasn't quite enough to cash out at top 32, but there were non-cash prizes to 64th place. Here was the list I played:
I mentioned earlier I am a fan of the Sculler plan. They served me well this weekend, though I did have a few awkward hands in which they couldn't be cast. Generally I was losing or needed to mull those hands anyways, but I may need to adjust the mana somehow. I don't think there's really anything I can do besides maybe swapping a Razorverge Thicket for a Blooming Marsh. I don't think basic Swamp is a good idea in this deck.
I kind of wanted to play Pharika, God of Affliction, but forgot about it before the event. Not sure what I'd drop here, anyways. Maybe a tracker, but tracker impressed whenever I boarded him in. Probably Mindsensor unless there's a lot of Tron or Storm.
I was too tired to take extensive notes, but here's what I remember. I faced 10 different decks in 10 rounds, which is very impressive. I actually dodged Jund entirely, and only went up against one Jace deck. Maybe I'm just lucky, but I think at the moment, Modern is diverse enough for this deck to do alright. After talking to a GW Valuetown player I played, I think some version of this deck is going to be the best positioned Company deck against the field. Sure, it's not better than Value against Jund, but we still need to be fast against other decks. The Value player really didn't like his chances against Jace decks either, so if outvaluing them sucks then we might as well have a combo plan. A Bant version, or Knightfall hybrid, maybe be something to look into, but for now I'm ok with this.
The Jace deck I beat G1 with early combo, G2 we both stumbled on lands, he drew lots of castable interaction but nothing to close out the game until very late when he landed a Clique into a Jace at 6 life and I managed to grind through it before he could stabilize (though, he was Brainstorming instead of Unsummoning so I'm not sure what exactly his plan was).
My three losses were to Valakut (saw neither Scapeshift or Through the Breach, only G and R Titans so I suspect the latter?), R/G Ponza, and Eldrazi Tron. Valakut I could have beaten G2 but I misplayed by untapping my mana incorrectly, shutting off my double Chord play. G3 he had Graffidgger's Cage, so basically game over T1. That deck is just a race, and it feels like a bad matchup but he claimed that it was bad from his side too. I dunno. Eldrazi Tron I had infinte mana G2 and G3 and nothing to do with it thanks to Thought-Knot Seer and he drew Ballista both those games as well, which is their best card against us. Infinite mana whiffing is a major incentive to go up to 3 Recruiter. I don't really like 3, but it's not a totally embarassing card, just a mostly embarassing one. Or it's possible I should keep more cards. Ponza was mostly me being totally unfamiliar with the matchup and him just blowing up lands while I drew nothing. G3 on the draw I kept a risky hand: one land, double 1-mana dorks, and combo with kill. Hoped to blank his Moons and Stone Rains. He had Anger. Oh well. I still make that call every time.
The other seven decks I played against were:
Hollow One (turns out T3 kill is better than T1 Hollow Two)
Dredge
GW Valuetown
Esper Control
Burn
Bant Eldrazi (I should have lost this one possibly, but there were bad draws and misplays on the other side. Might have been able to grind it out last game regardless)
UW Death and Taxes
You can always bring in Ooze/Pridemage/Tracker/Fiend Hunter from sideboard.
Are they run in MD because they are the most versatile of all silver bullets? Have I just answered my question? Or is just a matter of taste?
Maybe I am only overthinking this.
Thanks for your opinion, live long and prosper.
Basically. Ooze is just too incidentally good against many decks. I find that I usually don't side it out. It excels in grindy matchups, shuts down graveyard combo decks, and gains incidental life and blocks against aggro. It's not always great but it's rarely among your worst cards in a matchup, so it deserves the MB spot. The rest I agree are SB cards. Lists have mostly moved away from MD Pridemage and Fiend Hunter, though Tireless Tracker is a consideration if there's a lot of midrange around. I suppose Pridemage too depending on your meta. I think Selfless Spirit is the next best bullet, currently. I've seen people mess around with Rallier and Anafenza but I think the general consensus is that Rallier is a little awkward and the deck doesn't need another combo regarding Anafenza (she used to show up a lot though).
Personally I am running 3 Tidehollow Sculler and an Ooze in my flex spots right now, but there are a lot of combo decks where I play that I like having interaction with. I was running Rhonas for about a month but I can't even remember if he's ever been relevant.
By the way, if Boggles is the only Leyline deck you are worried about, they will lose to infinite life. So you still have a way to combo them out and can usually do it with infinite G mana as long as you have access to a chord or coco, or of course a regular B source.
I'm not in full panic mode but I reaaaally doubt this deck as it is now can survive in a meta with Jace and BBE. Blue control was already bad and Jund-ish decks were about even, and they both got better.
The one advantage we have is that Company is instant speed and can punish them if they tap out on 4 mana. But the grindy, interactive matches will be harder. BBE is basically a CoCo that always hits a 3/2 haste and can hit interactive spells. Also they have to counter both cards. It's possible this deck drops CoCo entirely and reorients itself around BBE. You can play more interaction and good stuff while also having some toolbox and combo elements. But I'm not sure if it's just better to play Jund at that point.
I agree that the PT results are not encouraging. Control is coming back and I think we are probably unfavored against Hollow One too (if not G1 then surely post board when they have Blood Moon, Push, and more Collective Brutality). The switch to the GW Value deck is an easy one and something I've considered, but it feels like you'd lose too much against unfair decks. And it's not like that deck did any better at the PT. It looks like combo/value hybrid versions have been discussed in this thread to little success but maybe now's the time?
My meta has a lot of unfair decks so I'm not that worried, but I am considering investing in a non-CoCo deck for bigger events. Humans or Burn or something, I dunno.
There's also the potential for WotC to unban something that changes the format so it could be too early to make a call on the deck now.
Trying to get back into the game and relearning how to play this deck. I have a hypothetical question about opening hands if anyone is game.
Your opening hand is one land (GW source), a one-mana dork, Vizier, Druid, and a combo kill card (Rhonas, Ballista, Recruiter, Chord, whatever). Last two cards are not a land or a one-mana dork, but otherwise basically irrelevant. You're on the play, and have T3 combo potential. Do you keep this blind? What about G2/G3? And does being on the draw make it better, or worse?
I ask because I had this come up twice at a recent open in games 2/3 and I kept both times. First was against Jeskai Delver, which in retrospect was probably a mistake since they seem fairly interactive. Second time was against Affinity, which I think it's correct to keep there except I knew he was playing Galvanic Blast. I took a risk and it just didn't pay off since he had a nut draw with a thopter, Blast, and two Plating.
This is what I played at my LGS the other night. The meta seems to mostly be fast decks (combo, aggro, burn) and a decent chunk of control, so that's why I gave Mirror Entity a shot. And of course the obligatory Tron decks and smattering of fair decks like DS/Abzan (I think I saw a faeries deck too). Maybe I should be playing something else, but this deck seems cool and this is what I built, so screw it.
MD Pridemage seemed good in theory (hits Tron junk, Unlife, affinity), but it should probably be in the board for the 4th Witness. It feels bad cutting Scooze or Fiend Hunter. I'm still waiting on Canopies but when I do get them I'd like to fit in a Rallier or two, so they might have to go anyways.
I won't do a full report on my games but I will post some quick thoughts. I played against 4C Control (L), Merfolk (W), Breach-Shift (W), and UW Control (L) for a record of 2-2.
- 4C control seems unwinable. Mostly an extension of the URx problem. Snap-Anger maindeck is gross.
- There was a game against Merfolk where Mirror Entity wouldn't have won on the spot where Rhonas would. I could make infinite powered-guys but he had two blockers for my two attackers, and I had a good chance of dying to the swingback if he had some lords + seas. Ended up not mattering as I assembled infinite life + bolster instead.
- Mirror Entity did win me a game Rhonas would not have, though. Against Breach-Shift my board was Recruiter, Druid, Noble, Noble. I activate Recruiter EOT, find Entity, and have enough lands to play it and activate it for x=3 on my turn. Druid let me get two more mana AND untap it to make it a 5/5 with two -1/-1 counters on it, so I could attack for 18 that turn (he was at 16). Good synergy there.
- Entity feels real bad against Control, where you need to apply pressure and don't want to tap out to threaten a Company. Rhonas probably has this same problem, but you get 9/turn with a bear and 3 mana so it's potentially better.
- Turn 1 Grafdiggers Cage makes me sad, and people are bringing in multiples. I figured I'd just try to play more fair in my deck construction but that's tough. Just gonna echo the need 2-3 Pridemage/Rec Sage in the 75 and make the adjustment.
- The UW Control pilots I talked to felt that the matchup was in Company's favor, for what it's worth. That deck seems to be the current flavor of control decks so that's good news if true. I lost due to my own misplays and a sideboarded Porphyry Nodes, which is brutal against us. Although, it was late and no one RTFC to realize it should go away after a Verdict.
What's the general sideboard plan against U-Tron? Do we lump it in with the other Tron decks and board grind out to race, or board more grind in as if it's a control deck? It's oddly popular at my LGS (usually 2 or 3 people playing it out of 30) and I never really know what to do. There's a version playing Elder Deep-Fiend that's especially weird to me.
My concern with Mirror Entity is how can't you win the same turn if you wind up drawing the combo naturally. There's a situation where you go T2 Druid, T3 Vizier + Recruiter and can't win that turn unless you have another white source. I haven't been able to test so I don't know how often this comes up, but it pushes me towards wanting to include Rhonas as the kill card. Mirror Entity also does not beat a blocker.
I also get that Ballista avoid the combat step, but both Rhonas and Mirror Entity beat Ensnaring Bridge because of Druid's 0 power, and any removal (or Cryptic) would be spent disrupting the combo, so what are we playing around? Condemn?
It's a combo piece with a good upside, it is far from useless.
EDIT: I'm stupid, misread the thing, seems pretty bad.
Well with Anafenza combo (not Melira) it does also make infinite deathtouch snakes, so is a slow way to deal infinite damage. Probably too cute but doesn't seem awful. Seems insane in certain matchups like the mirror and Infect. I think it has potential but probably isn't good enough as a general creature.
Wall of Roots is better with Chord and blocks better than STE, who can only ever chump once. If you want land ramp with Rallier, you can just get back a fetchland. I feel like that's Rallier's most common mode anyways.
So I'm interested in this deck but I have a budget question (sorry!). I'm hesitant to buy into some of the pieces with MM3 so close. How much does this deck lose by playing without the Hierarchs and Verdant Catacombs? I have Khans fetches so that's an easy if awkward sub, but for Hierarch I lose the exalted and a color for something like Avacyn's Pilgrim or Arbor Elf, and I'm not sure how big a deal that is. At some point I might as well look at other decks.
Also, have the Archangel of Thune and Redcap combos fallen out of favor entirely? Don't see them in many lists.
http://www.starcitygames.com/decks/results/format/28/event_ID/36/start_date/29-04-2018/end_date/29-04-2018/city/Atlanta/state/GA/start/1/finish/16/w_perc/0/g_perc/0/r_perc/0/b_perc/0/u_perc/0/a_perc/0/order_1/finish/limit/25/start_num/0/#content_decks_modern-tab
Team Open is also grain-of-salt-y but there was one in top 32 and one Knightfall in Top 16. I only point that out because some of the Company lists are running KotR in place of Finks, which could point to that card being stronger.
I think Modern is just wide open right now and there's a lot of variance in the meta.
https://magic.wizards.com/en/events/coverage/gppho18/event-coverage/top-8-decklists-2018-03-18
I think what sticks out to me is the amount of noncreature spells in a CoCo deck. You have 27 creatures and 10 of them are dorks. Being able to hold up mana to either Spell Queller or CoCo (or better yet, CoCo into Queller) seems really strong, but you lose a lot of value hits. Still, it must have worked out for him this weekend.
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=119404
A version splashing red for Magus of the Moon and playing Redcap as a third combo finisher. Seems kinds clunky Imo but I doubt people expect this kind of thing.
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=119443
This list trims some of the "core" cards for 3 Voice and a more robust toolbox.
There were also a few other company decks in the top 32, including a pretty interesting GB Value build.
3x Birds of Paradise
3x Noble Hierarch
1x Viscera Seer
4x Devoted Druid
2x Duskwatch Recruiter
4x Vizier of Remedies
1x Walking Ballista
3x Eternal Witness
4x Kitchen Finks
1x Selfless Spirit
3x Tidehollow Sculler
Instants: 8
4x Chord of Calling
4x Collected Company
Land: 22
2x Forest
2x Gavony Township
1x Godless Shrine
2x Horizon Canopy
2x Overgrown Tomb
1x Plains
2x Razorverge Thicket
2x Temple Garden
4x Verdant Catacombs
4x Windswept Heath
I mentioned earlier I am a fan of the Sculler plan. They served me well this weekend, though I did have a few awkward hands in which they couldn't be cast. Generally I was losing or needed to mull those hands anyways, but I may need to adjust the mana somehow. I don't think there's really anything I can do besides maybe swapping a Razorverge Thicket for a Blooming Marsh. I don't think basic Swamp is a good idea in this deck.
1x Eidolon of Rhetoric
1x Kataki, War's Wage
1x Orzhov Pontiff
3x Path to Exile
1x Qasali Pridemage
1x Sin Collector
1x Tidehollow Sculler
2x Tireless Tracker
2x Voice of Resurgence
1x Aven Mindcensor
I kind of wanted to play Pharika, God of Affliction, but forgot about it before the event. Not sure what I'd drop here, anyways. Maybe a tracker, but tracker impressed whenever I boarded him in. Probably Mindsensor unless there's a lot of Tron or Storm.
I was too tired to take extensive notes, but here's what I remember. I faced 10 different decks in 10 rounds, which is very impressive. I actually dodged Jund entirely, and only went up against one Jace deck. Maybe I'm just lucky, but I think at the moment, Modern is diverse enough for this deck to do alright. After talking to a GW Valuetown player I played, I think some version of this deck is going to be the best positioned Company deck against the field. Sure, it's not better than Value against Jund, but we still need to be fast against other decks. The Value player really didn't like his chances against Jace decks either, so if outvaluing them sucks then we might as well have a combo plan. A Bant version, or Knightfall hybrid, maybe be something to look into, but for now I'm ok with this.
The Jace deck I beat G1 with early combo, G2 we both stumbled on lands, he drew lots of castable interaction but nothing to close out the game until very late when he landed a Clique into a Jace at 6 life and I managed to grind through it before he could stabilize (though, he was Brainstorming instead of Unsummoning so I'm not sure what exactly his plan was).
My three losses were to Valakut (saw neither Scapeshift or Through the Breach, only G and R Titans so I suspect the latter?), R/G Ponza, and Eldrazi Tron. Valakut I could have beaten G2 but I misplayed by untapping my mana incorrectly, shutting off my double Chord play. G3 he had Graffidgger's Cage, so basically game over T1. That deck is just a race, and it feels like a bad matchup but he claimed that it was bad from his side too. I dunno. Eldrazi Tron I had infinte mana G2 and G3 and nothing to do with it thanks to Thought-Knot Seer and he drew Ballista both those games as well, which is their best card against us. Infinite mana whiffing is a major incentive to go up to 3 Recruiter. I don't really like 3, but it's not a totally embarassing card, just a mostly embarassing one. Or it's possible I should keep more cards. Ponza was mostly me being totally unfamiliar with the matchup and him just blowing up lands while I drew nothing. G3 on the draw I kept a risky hand: one land, double 1-mana dorks, and combo with kill. Hoped to blank his Moons and Stone Rains. He had Anger. Oh well. I still make that call every time.
The other seven decks I played against were:
Hollow One (turns out T3 kill is better than T1 Hollow Two)
Dredge
GW Valuetown
Esper Control
Burn
Bant Eldrazi (I should have lost this one possibly, but there were bad draws and misplays on the other side. Might have been able to grind it out last game regardless)
UW Death and Taxes
Basically. Ooze is just too incidentally good against many decks. I find that I usually don't side it out. It excels in grindy matchups, shuts down graveyard combo decks, and gains incidental life and blocks against aggro. It's not always great but it's rarely among your worst cards in a matchup, so it deserves the MB spot. The rest I agree are SB cards. Lists have mostly moved away from MD Pridemage and Fiend Hunter, though Tireless Tracker is a consideration if there's a lot of midrange around. I suppose Pridemage too depending on your meta. I think Selfless Spirit is the next best bullet, currently. I've seen people mess around with Rallier and Anafenza but I think the general consensus is that Rallier is a little awkward and the deck doesn't need another combo regarding Anafenza (she used to show up a lot though).
Personally I am running 3 Tidehollow Sculler and an Ooze in my flex spots right now, but there are a lot of combo decks where I play that I like having interaction with. I was running Rhonas for about a month but I can't even remember if he's ever been relevant.
By the way, if Boggles is the only Leyline deck you are worried about, they will lose to infinite life. So you still have a way to combo them out and can usually do it with infinite G mana as long as you have access to a chord or coco, or of course a regular B source.
The one advantage we have is that Company is instant speed and can punish them if they tap out on 4 mana. But the grindy, interactive matches will be harder. BBE is basically a CoCo that always hits a 3/2 haste and can hit interactive spells. Also they have to counter both cards. It's possible this deck drops CoCo entirely and reorients itself around BBE. You can play more interaction and good stuff while also having some toolbox and combo elements. But I'm not sure if it's just better to play Jund at that point.
My meta has a lot of unfair decks so I'm not that worried, but I am considering investing in a non-CoCo deck for bigger events. Humans or Burn or something, I dunno.
There's also the potential for WotC to unban something that changes the format so it could be too early to make a call on the deck now.
Your opening hand is one land (GW source), a one-mana dork, Vizier, Druid, and a combo kill card (Rhonas, Ballista, Recruiter, Chord, whatever). Last two cards are not a land or a one-mana dork, but otherwise basically irrelevant. You're on the play, and have T3 combo potential. Do you keep this blind? What about G2/G3? And does being on the draw make it better, or worse?
I ask because I had this come up twice at a recent open in games 2/3 and I kept both times. First was against Jeskai Delver, which in retrospect was probably a mistake since they seem fairly interactive. Second time was against Affinity, which I think it's correct to keep there except I knew he was playing Galvanic Blast. I took a risk and it just didn't pay off since he had a nut draw with a thopter, Blast, and two Plating.
1x Anafenza, Kin-Tree Spirit
4x Birds of Paradise
4x Devoted Druid
2x Duskwatch Recruiter
3x Eternal Witness
1x Fiend Hunter
4x Kitchen Finks
1x Mirror Entity
3x Noble Hierarch
1x Qasali Pridemage
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Selfless Spirit
1x Viscera Seer
3x Vizier of Remedies
2x Forest
3x Gavony Township
1x Godless Shrine
2x Overgrown Tomb
1x Plains
2x Razorverge Thicket
1x Swamp
2x Temple Garden
4x Verdant Catacombs
4x Windswept Heath
Instant (8)
4x Chord of Calling
4x Collected Company
1x Abrupt Decay
1x Eidolon of Rhetoric
1x Kataki, War's Wage
1x Melira, Sylvok Outcast
1x Orzhov Pontiff
3x Path to Exile
2x Sin Collector
2x Tidehollow Sculler
1x Tireless Tracker
2x Voice of Resurgence
MD Pridemage seemed good in theory (hits Tron junk, Unlife, affinity), but it should probably be in the board for the 4th Witness. It feels bad cutting Scooze or Fiend Hunter. I'm still waiting on Canopies but when I do get them I'd like to fit in a Rallier or two, so they might have to go anyways.
I won't do a full report on my games but I will post some quick thoughts. I played against 4C Control (L), Merfolk (W), Breach-Shift (W), and UW Control (L) for a record of 2-2.
- 4C control seems unwinable. Mostly an extension of the URx problem. Snap-Anger maindeck is gross.
- There was a game against Merfolk where Mirror Entity wouldn't have won on the spot where Rhonas would. I could make infinite powered-guys but he had two blockers for my two attackers, and I had a good chance of dying to the swingback if he had some lords + seas. Ended up not mattering as I assembled infinite life + bolster instead.
- Mirror Entity did win me a game Rhonas would not have, though. Against Breach-Shift my board was Recruiter, Druid, Noble, Noble. I activate Recruiter EOT, find Entity, and have enough lands to play it and activate it for x=3 on my turn. Druid let me get two more mana AND untap it to make it a 5/5 with two -1/-1 counters on it, so I could attack for 18 that turn (he was at 16). Good synergy there.
- Entity feels real bad against Control, where you need to apply pressure and don't want to tap out to threaten a Company. Rhonas probably has this same problem, but you get 9/turn with a bear and 3 mana so it's potentially better.
- Turn 1 Grafdiggers Cage makes me sad, and people are bringing in multiples. I figured I'd just try to play more fair in my deck construction but that's tough. Just gonna echo the need 2-3 Pridemage/Rec Sage in the 75 and make the adjustment.
- The UW Control pilots I talked to felt that the matchup was in Company's favor, for what it's worth. That deck seems to be the current flavor of control decks so that's good news if true. I lost due to my own misplays and a sideboarded Porphyry Nodes, which is brutal against us. Although, it was late and no one RTFC to realize it should go away after a Verdict.
I also get that Ballista avoid the combat step, but both Rhonas and Mirror Entity beat Ensnaring Bridge because of Druid's 0 power, and any removal (or Cryptic) would be spent disrupting the combo, so what are we playing around? Condemn?
Well with Anafenza combo (not Melira) it does also make infinite deathtouch snakes, so is a slow way to deal infinite damage. Probably too cute but doesn't seem awful. Seems insane in certain matchups like the mirror and Infect. I think it has potential but probably isn't good enough as a general creature.
Also, have the Archangel of Thune and Redcap combos fallen out of favor entirely? Don't see them in many lists.