Yes, Ensnaring Bridge. What one of the Eldrazi can attack past a bridge? Then you put down Jaya and ping your way to a win. Also once you have Painter in play all Eldrazi become blue and thus can be targeted by Jaya.
Sorry, my question was badly phrased. The painter/grindstone combo wins by milling, and Eldrazi stop you from being able to do that. Assuming Bridge can keep them from killing you, what's Plan B? Ping to win with Jaya?
Hey everyone,
I'm trying to find a Legacy combo deck to pick up, and Painter is my first choice. My concern, however, is that this deck seems to just lose to any deck packing Eldrazi. I don't see a way to deal with this anywhere in the 75. Is there something I'm missing?
Not to sound like a troll, but why isn't Goblins.dec embracing black? I know white splash is a thing, but discard + plagues + warrens weirding appear to be well positioned right now.
I've been considering that, actually. Running all of those options would probably force Thalia goblins to cut back on the white, but they -might- be worth it. And for those looking to take the deck's synergy to the next level, there was an article on SCG a while back about Dark Prophecy goblins. I don't have the time to test any of this now, but I certainly will over winter break.
It works. The reminder text is not identical to the rules text for protection. The official rules for protections say "702.16e Any damage that would be dealt by sources that have the stated quality to a permanent or player with protection is prevented."
Thanks! I'm still not sure whether skullcrack is worth playing or not, but it's nice to know it works.
On another note, which decks seem to be playing TNN the most? The suspects I have are UWR, UW, and BUG, but since I only have one playtesting partner I don't get to see a lot of other decks.
Has anybody found a way to deal with a resolved TNN in R? So far the only red means of not losing to it (that I've found) is a preventative blood moon. I'm looking for something morning-after, if you see where I'm going
So other legacy decks got some pretty potent tools in true-name nemesis and toxic deluge. Has anybody played against these, especially the second one? They both seem to hurt Goblins pretty badly
I had a fun time, and even started off 2-0 before going into a tailspin and losing my next four matches.
Here be my matches:
Match 1: Manaless Dredge
He won the roll and elected to go on the draw. Crap. I drop a Cavern and a Lackey, and pass the turn. He draws, discards Golgari Grave-Troll and passes the turn. Crap.
I play a Plateau, Thalia, swing with the Lackey, and put a Warchief into play.
My EOT he cycles Street Wraith to dredge 6, and puts two Bridge from Below, a Stinkweed Imp, a Balustrade Spy and 2 other things into his graveyard. His draw, he dredges 5, hits three Narcomebas and a Dread Return. Flashbacked Dread Return sacking the three Nacromebas for Balustrade Spy (plus six Zombies) pretty much finishes it there, but we play it out.
Game 2, I choose to go on the draw, and SB +3 RiP, +1 RoP, -3 Thalia, -1 Tuktuk Scrapper. I keep a hand with RiP and two fetches, don't even care what the rest of the hand is; he passes his first turn, I play a fetch and pass, he draws and discards a GGT and passes, I play a second fetch, crack both for Plateaus, play RiP. On to game three!
Game 3, have to mulligan to 5, but am rewarded with two fetches, a RiP and a RoP. T1 RoP into T2 RiP finishes things quickly.
1-0
Match 2: Enchantress
Round 1: I win the roll, Mountain, Lackey, go. He drops a Forest + Utopia Sprawl. I drop a Port, swing with the Lackey, drop a Piledriver, pass the turn. His upkeep, Forest is locked down, he misses his land drop and it's over from there.
Round 2: After starting off well, including a T1 Lackey and T2 Thalia, my third turn I accidentally play Plateau when I meant to play Rishadan Port; this costs me the game because the Savannah I wasn't able to lock down lets him cast Solitary Confinement, and his next turn he drops another Plains and casts Sterling Grove, then follows that up with Moat. O-Ring on the Seige-Gang Commander seals the deal. On to round 3!
Round 3: See game 1.
2-0
Match 3: Reanimator
Round 1: Yuck. He wins the roll, plays a Polluted Delta. I play Cavern -> Lackey. He plays a second Polluted Delta, cracks them both, plays 2 USeas, plays Careful Study discarding Iona and Gris, then Reanimates Gris. No T2 or T3 Stingscourger finishes this off quickly.
Round 2: SB -3 Gempalm, -1 Tarfie, -1 Tuktuk Scrapper, -1 SGC, -2 Mogg War Marshall, +4 Chalice, +3 RiP, +1 RoP. Mulligan to 4 before seeing anything worth keeping, which is a CotV, plus Lackey, Cavern and a fetch. I really don't want to mulligan to 3, so I keep.
T1 Cavern -> Lackey, he plays Polluted Delta again and passes. I fetch for a Mountain, try casting CotV, and it gets Forced. I swing with the Lackey, and he cracks the Delta, fetches a USea, and Stifles the trigger. His turn, he drops a USea, cracks the fetch, Careful Studies out Gris and Iona again, and Reanimates Gris.
2-1
Match 4: Combo Elves
This one sucked for me -- all of his cards were in Korean, and I felt like a complete noob for asking what each of his cards did. He also screwed up his mana pool at one point, which is good, because I was keeping track on paper, while he was just keeping track out loud.
Round 1: He wins the roll, gets a Wirewood Symbiote. I get a Vial out, he gets a Heritage Druid plus Cradle out, taps the Cradle, gets 2 Nettle Sentinels out, taps everything to play Glimpse of Nature, plays an Elvish Visionary, and all hell breaks loose.
Round 2: I get a T1 Lackey, he gets a Dryad Arbor, I get a T2 Chalice at 1, he gets a Pendlehaven, and then I proceed to draw no more lands for the rest of the game.
2-2
Match 5: Miracles
Yuck again. I steamroll him in round 1, but he gets T1 Tops in games 2 and 3, and gets a Terminus every time he needs one. We end up going to rounds, and he manages to finally Helm me with one round left.
2-3
Match 6: Omni-tell
I'm frazzled after the last round, dashing to my next game.
Both games he gets a T1 island into T2 City of Traitors or Ancient Tomb, and I never have a Wasteland to stop the Sol lands.
Game 1 he goes straight into Show -> Omniscience -> Ants (and I yell, "And that's how you get ants!" No one laughs), game 2 he at least has to Intuition for the Shows.
Both times I ended up just showing a Stingscourger; I mulliganed to 4 in my second game and never saw anything worth showing.
2-4 and drop
That first match vs dredge...Can he cast Dread Return through Thalia like that?
I don't know. I've not played against manaless dredge much. I have played dredge however and from what I know, manaless is quite a bit slower, so the RIP costing 2 isn't too bad.
One thing I've considered trying before is Ravenous Trap. Its not as good against decks like reanimator, but it can be a huge blowout for dredge. The only reason they can play around relic and crypt is that they can see it coming. With trap, its basically a crypt that they can't see coming. Wait for them to go for their DR or whatever plan manaless uses these days, then just drop it on the table and say no. Plus, it doesn't require any mana commitments. You just sit with it in your hand until you pull the trigger (yes, they can double therapy you to get it, but to do that, they need double therapy and 2 creatures, and if they do go for the second therapy, you just trap in response (if trap isn't relevant, they're not doing enough for goblins to care).
The only reason I've never tried it is that grave decks like dredge have never really been big around here.
I have a friend who bought manaless dredge; I'll test some combination of the three and report back later. Ravenous trap sounds promising
On the topic of ports, I agree that they're essential to the deck's plan of resource denial. Thalia + ports/wastes can win games on their own.
Also, another legacy 1k is coming up and I'm changing my sideboard a bit. I was originally running a 2/2 split of RiP and RoP (pretty clever acronyms, eh?), but manaless dredge is gaining popularity in my meta. Should I up the number of RiPs? A good dredge player can play through a RoP, but folds to the enchantment
Legion loyalist is amazing against any matchup where you have a batterskull against you, plus first strike and trample with a piledriver is EXTREMELY RELEVANT. Pithing Needle comes in for the Sneak and Show matchups naming Big Gris or Sneak Attack, but I'm thinking Chained to the Rocks might go in that slot
how much does pithing needle help vs S&T? obviously it stops grizzy's card draw, but a 7/7 flying lifelinker is hard for goblins to race (to say nothing of emrakul)
there was 1 mistake i made when posting my list; in the SB i said 4 rip when it was really 2 rip and 2 relic of progenitus.
also, @aether_lackey, how do you play with leyline? do you generally mull til you you find it, or just deal with a dead draw later?
looking at the following changes to my board:
-1 wear/tear
-1 mindbreak trap
-1 rest in peace (?)
+1 tuktuk scrapper
+2 leyline of the void
EDIT: i cant help but notice that (a) the first page is pretty outdated and (b) the person who started this thread is banned.
Is there someone else in charge of the thread who could update the primer?
Sorry, my question was badly phrased. The painter/grindstone combo wins by milling, and Eldrazi stop you from being able to do that. Assuming Bridge can keep them from killing you, what's Plan B? Ping to win with Jaya?
I'm trying to find a Legacy combo deck to pick up, and Painter is my first choice. My concern, however, is that this deck seems to just lose to any deck packing Eldrazi. I don't see a way to deal with this anywhere in the 75. Is there something I'm missing?
I've been considering that, actually. Running all of those options would probably force Thalia goblins to cut back on the white, but they -might- be worth it. And for those looking to take the deck's synergy to the next level, there was an article on SCG a while back about Dark Prophecy goblins. I don't have the time to test any of this now, but I certainly will over winter break.
All of those have very complex mana bases. Resolving an early blood moon (maybe in some stompy variant) looks like the way to go
Thanks! I'm still not sure whether skullcrack is worth playing or not, but it's nice to know it works.
On another note, which decks seem to be playing TNN the most? The suspects I have are UWR, UW, and BUG, but since I only have one playtesting partner I don't get to see a lot of other decks.
Does that work? TNN reads "can't be dealt damage", not "prevent all damage". I'm not a judge or anything, but I think the two are different things.
That first match vs dredge...Can he cast Dread Return through Thalia like that?
I have a friend who bought manaless dredge; I'll test some combination of the three and report back later. Ravenous trap sounds promising
Also, another legacy 1k is coming up and I'm changing my sideboard a bit. I was originally running a 2/2 split of RiP and RoP (pretty clever acronyms, eh?), but manaless dredge is gaining popularity in my meta. Should I up the number of RiPs? A good dredge player can play through a RoP, but folds to the enchantment
how much does pithing needle help vs S&T? obviously it stops grizzy's card draw, but a 7/7 flying lifelinker is hard for goblins to race (to say nothing of emrakul)
also, @aether_lackey, how do you play with leyline? do you generally mull til you you find it, or just deal with a dead draw later?
looking at the following changes to my board:
-1 wear/tear
-1 mindbreak trap
-1 rest in peace (?)
+1 tuktuk scrapper
+2 leyline of the void
EDIT: i cant help but notice that (a) the first page is pretty outdated and (b) the person who started this thread is banned.
Is there someone else in charge of the thread who could update the primer?