My friends and I do both. We play commander most frequently, but we also do intermittent 60-card casual, along with occasional booster drafts and cube drafts (I have a peasant cube).
Thanks. So step 3 in your list is the point at which I have to declare the value for X, is that correct?
No, you declare the value of X at step 4 (when you actually get to cast the miracle card).
WizardMN said you can activate Selvala's ability between 3 and 4, and then that you can also activate it after 4 (in the middle of casting Entreat) but that in this second case you have the problem of the value of X being already defined.
It sounds like you're saying that I can reveal Entreat, put the miracle trigger on the stack, activate Selvala's ability, see how much mana I get from her ability when it resolves, and then declare a value for X. Do I have that right?
Let's say I'm playing a multiplayer game, and I have Selvala, Explorer Returned on the battlefield. My turn begins. I untap, draw Entreat the Angels, and immediately reveal it and announce its miracle trigger.
My question is this: can I - in response to the miracle trigger going on the stack - tap Selvala to (hopefully) generate extra mana and then use that mana to cast Entreat? Or will I already have to have paid the cost for Entreat by that point?
I tested Nyx Weaver for two matches and immediately removed it. It looks bad, it plays bad. I'm just not a fan. I actually like Trestle Troll more.
Hold up. What?
Trestle Troll and Nyx Weaver are completely different cards in every conceivable way. If your cube actively supports the BG self-mill theme, then Nyx Weaver is incredible. If not then it's obviously much worse. But you're rating it in a vaccuum, outside of its intended shell. Nyx Weaver is one of my single favorite cube cards. This is a hill I'm more than willing to die on; Nyx Weaver neither looks bad nor plays bad, and I've got the drafts to back that up, too.
I'm a bit perturbed that skyspawner and arctic aven are in competition (you're one of "those people"), but you should start in a position where you put the eldrazi guy in your cube and then from the rest of your list decide what card is the worst. Not testing skyspawner seems criminal to me.
It's less that those cards are in competition and more that I just did a quick perusal of my blue section and those were the cards that came to mind first as the least highly drafted. For what it's worth, I agree with inscho - Illusory Angel is probably the right cut. Of late she has been performing, if not poorly, then at least unimpressively in my list. I still love the card and would love to have that art on my wall. But I gotta give her the boot.
Deathless Behemoth is a strong card, but I don't like the fact that other than "vigilance," the rest of the card is basically flavor text. That bothers me for the same reason that Dragon Hunter having protection from Dragons bothers me. I'm sure it's relevant in some situations, but I don't like cards that require explanation to new players. As my cube tends to get drafted by infrequent mtg players, having to stop and explain that the second ability isn't really relevant at all is frustrating for me and for them. I prefer to run cards that new players don't have to look at and go "wait, is there some synergy I'm missing here? I don't understand why this is on the card."
Eldrazi Skyspawner is good, but I don't know what I'd cut for it. Illusory Angel? Arctic Aven? Augury Owl? Those are the "top" choices, but none of those are cards I'd want to cut.
As for the Pyreheart Wolf vs Firemantle Mage discussion, the wolf has performed very well in my cube and I know my players are aware of how good it is, but it still tends not to be drafted very highly. Probably because of the 1/1 body. The way my group plays, I think they'd prefer the slightly larger body of the Firemantle Mage and the fact that its ability takes effect immediately, though not repeatedly. It's a swap I'm very comfortable making.
I haven't been able to draft too recently, but here are my thoughts from what I added from Origins:
Boggart Brute - Don't think this has seen play in my cube yet, but I'd wager it'll perform just fine.
Bounding Krasis - Also hasn't seen play. I'm very high on this card though. It's staying in unless they print the mother of all simic cards and I'm forced to swap.
Citadel Castellan - Phenomenal. If you're supporting the +1/+1 counters theme, this is an all-star for sure. Very strong and my group loves it.
Conclave Naturalists - Does what it needs to do. Nothing you don't already know.
Gather the Pack - Also hasn't yet shown up, but I'm keeping it in because I like the extra support for GBu graveyard.dec
Goblin Glory Chaser - If you're not running this then you're wrong. It breaks faces in Rx aggro. Get on the train.
Jhessian Thief - Paints a huge target, and rightfully so. This has shown up a few times and been an MVP in all of them.
Patron of the Valiant - Showed up once and got played just as a flyer (the guy who drafted it just wanted the body, didn't go out of his way to draft +1/+1 counters.dec)
Possessed Skaab - 9 stars out of 10. It's basically Eternal Witness in UB.
Shadows of the Past - Showed up, got drafted late, didn't get played. I still like the card but I don't think it's good enough. Will replace with Vampiric Rites as someone else also mentioned earlier.
Shambling Ghoul - Ehhhh. It's the 2-drop I need, not the one I deserve.
Topan Freeblade - It's... fine, I guess? I think I liked it more in ORIx3 booster draft.
Undercity Troll - See above. No issues here but I won't hesitate to cut it if something better comes along.
I'd suggest people run Azure Mage over the new thing -- costs one less, can be used on the opponent's turn, and isn't totally useless if you're not in an attacking situation.
Thanks, that's a good point.
Also, the cards I'm cubing from BFZ are (since I forgot to post a list earlier):
I did two events and went 4-1 and 3-1, respectively. I somehow didn't get very many of the commons and uncommons I was looking for, but somehow opened all five tangolands and both manlands (among other cool things) between my two sealed pools + prize packs, so that was definitely great.
As for peasant-relavent thoughts:
In my 4-1 event, I got to play 4-color green with double Skyrider Elf. I'm not super high on the card for cube, but my opinion of it went *way* up after the prerelease. I got to cast it as a 4/4 twice that I can remember and probably four or five times as a 3/3. Every single time it completely took over the board as my opponents scrambled to find an answer. After seriously re-evaluating the card, I'd like to cube it but I honestly don't think there's room in my simic section. I like everything else there too much. It's worth some consideration, though.
One other card I think needs some serious discussion is Coralhelm Guide. Maybe it's the fact that BFZ limited is a more bomb-driven format than cube, but I got utterly blown out by this card in two separate matches. I mean I lost the game instantly the turn it came down, not exaggerating. Both times my opponents went "play coralhelm guide, make my big thing unblockable, kill you." I then had the pleasure of playing with it on my side of the field in the second event I was in, and while I never had the opportunity to use its ability I was still always happy to see it in my hand. A 2/1 body for 2 mana is respectable if unimpressive. But then you tack a Rogue's Passage effect onto it and suddenly you've got something worth talking about.
Surely it's possible I'm just overvaluing it after having been its unwitting victim over the weekend, but I think it needs a closer look before it gets tossed aside with the rest of the chaff.
I don't see anyone talking about Makindi Sliderunner. Am I the only one thinking about running it? It seems like a solid replacement for Borderland Marauder. Trample is pretty underrepresented in red, and attacking as a 3/2 most of the time makes this an efficient creature for aggro decks. Bonus points if you run multiple Evolving Wilds or other fetches (like I do).
This isn't traditional Esper Dragons, but it's something I'm brewing with the "throw stuff at the wall and see what sticks" mindset. Please feel free to tell me why this will/won't work, criticize it, take it apart, shower it with praise/scorn, etc.
I began brewing with the idea that Hangarback Walker and Monastery Mentor should both play really well together with Sorin, except... nobody's running that shell right now. So I started there. My thought was that the deck can play either the aggressive route or go in a more controlling direction, depending on what kind of deck you're facing as well as how you draw.
Explanations on some cards:
- I went with Tragic Arrogance instead of Languish or Crux of Fate because it's the closest thing we have right now to Planar Cleansing, and additionally it leaves any lands we've awakened alone.
- With Revoke Existence rotating out, the format looking like it'll be a lot slower and midrange-y. Utter End seems extremely well-positioned as removal of choice. It exiles opposing Hangarbacks, which should continue to be as ubiquitous in standard as they already are, as well as all the devoid cards that are immune to Ultimate Price. Those are two pretty big points in its favor.
- I'm unsure about Ojutai's Command/Silumgar's Command/Clash of Wills/Negate. I wrote up this list prior to the spoilers of Dispel and Spell Shrivel today, so those may also deserve attention. I think 1-2 maindeck Negates are also very well-positioned due to the number of Evolutionary Leaps and Atarka's Commands that are floating around these days, though that may change when we see how the meta shakes out.
- The land base is just a placeholder; it can be fleshed out later. 4 of each fetch is better than the 2-2 split I have now, but since it's filler it can be largely ignored for now.
I plan on putting this list through the grinder as soon as possible. Until then, I'm eager to hear thoughts on the list!
EDIT: Did some initial testing and got stomped by Woodland Wanderer, which is the real deal. I've updated my list above to reflect modifications made after getting my butt kicked.
My question is this: can I - in response to the miracle trigger going on the stack - tap Selvala to (hopefully) generate extra mana and then use that mana to cast Entreat? Or will I already have to have paid the cost for Entreat by that point?
Trestle Troll and Nyx Weaver are completely different cards in every conceivable way. If your cube actively supports the BG self-mill theme, then Nyx Weaver is incredible. If not then it's obviously much worse. But you're rating it in a vaccuum, outside of its intended shell. Nyx Weaver is one of my single favorite cube cards. This is a hill I'm more than willing to die on; Nyx Weaver neither looks bad nor plays bad, and I've got the drafts to back that up, too.
Eldrazi Skyspawner is good, but I don't know what I'd cut for it. Illusory Angel? Arctic Aven? Augury Owl? Those are the "top" choices, but none of those are cards I'd want to cut.
As for the Pyreheart Wolf vs Firemantle Mage discussion, the wolf has performed very well in my cube and I know my players are aware of how good it is, but it still tends not to be drafted very highly. Probably because of the 1/1 body. The way my group plays, I think they'd prefer the slightly larger body of the Firemantle Mage and the fact that its ability takes effect immediately, though not repeatedly. It's a swap I'm very comfortable making.
Also, the cards I'm cubing from BFZ are (since I forgot to post a list earlier):
- Makindi Sliderunner
- Drana's Emissary
- Carrier Thrall
- Blighted Cataract
- Mortuary Mire
- Roil's Retribution (this one is just for testing purposes. I'm not convinced of it yet but Cone of White seems like it could be strong.)
- Plated Crusher
- Firemantle Mage
- Zulaport Cutthroat
- Breaker of Armies
- Bane of Bala Ged
And I think something else that I'm forgetting, since I don't have my list handy and am going from memory here.I did two events and went 4-1 and 3-1, respectively. I somehow didn't get very many of the commons and uncommons I was looking for, but somehow opened all five tangolands and both manlands (among other cool things) between my two sealed pools + prize packs, so that was definitely great.
As for peasant-relavent thoughts:
In my 4-1 event, I got to play 4-color green with double Skyrider Elf. I'm not super high on the card for cube, but my opinion of it went *way* up after the prerelease. I got to cast it as a 4/4 twice that I can remember and probably four or five times as a 3/3. Every single time it completely took over the board as my opponents scrambled to find an answer. After seriously re-evaluating the card, I'd like to cube it but I honestly don't think there's room in my simic section. I like everything else there too much. It's worth some consideration, though.
One other card I think needs some serious discussion is Coralhelm Guide. Maybe it's the fact that BFZ limited is a more bomb-driven format than cube, but I got utterly blown out by this card in two separate matches. I mean I lost the game instantly the turn it came down, not exaggerating. Both times my opponents went "play coralhelm guide, make my big thing unblockable, kill you." I then had the pleasure of playing with it on my side of the field in the second event I was in, and while I never had the opportunity to use its ability I was still always happy to see it in my hand. A 2/1 body for 2 mana is respectable if unimpressive. But then you tack a Rogue's Passage effect onto it and suddenly you've got something worth talking about.
Surely it's possible I'm just overvaluing it after having been its unwitting victim over the weekend, but I think it needs a closer look before it gets tossed aside with the rest of the chaff.
I began brewing with the idea that Hangarback Walker and Monastery Mentor should both play really well together with Sorin, except... nobody's running that shell right now. So I started there. My thought was that the deck can play either the aggressive route or go in a more controlling direction, depending on what kind of deck you're facing as well as how you draw.
Explanations on some cards:
- I went with Tragic Arrogance instead of Languish or Crux of Fate because it's the closest thing we have right now to Planar Cleansing, and additionally it leaves any lands we've awakened alone.
- With Revoke Existence rotating out, the format looking like it'll be a lot slower and midrange-y. Utter End seems extremely well-positioned as removal of choice. It exiles opposing Hangarbacks, which should continue to be as ubiquitous in standard as they already are, as well as all the devoid cards that are immune to Ultimate Price. Those are two pretty big points in its favor.
- I'm unsure about Ojutai's Command/Silumgar's Command/Clash of Wills/Negate. I wrote up this list prior to the spoilers of Dispel and Spell Shrivel today, so those may also deserve attention. I think 1-2 maindeck Negates are also very well-positioned due to the number of Evolutionary Leaps and Atarka's Commands that are floating around these days, though that may change when we see how the meta shakes out.
- The land base is just a placeholder; it can be fleshed out later. 4 of each fetch is better than the 2-2 split I have now, but since it's filler it can be largely ignored for now.
4 Hangarback Walker
4 Monastery Mentor
2 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
Support Spells:
2 Horribly Awry
2 Ultimate Price
1 Valorous Stance
4 Ruinous Path
4 Scatter to the Winds
1 Spell Shrivel
2 Languish
3 Utter End
1 Crux of Fate
1 Murderous Cut
1 Clash of Wills
2 Treasure Cruise
1 Blighted Cataract
2 Caves of Koilos
2 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
4 Prairie Stream
2 Sunken Hollow
2 Shambling Vent
2 Plains
5 Island
4 Swamp
EDIT: Did some initial testing and got stomped by Woodland Wanderer, which is the real deal. I've updated my list above to reflect modifications made after getting my butt kicked.