At 2+ counters it turns all of your 2+ mana counters into better force of wills, not to mention all the free Ancestral Visions you'll be casting. All this to say a 4-of 3 mana enchantment does not a consistent deck make.
Aside from reprinting old Counterspells, what are some realistic options for new counterspells that could be considered "good"?
Cancel + cycling for 2 Mana?
Mana Leak for UU?
Disprove - UU
Instant
Counter target spell with a converted mana cost of 3 or less.
Would go along way of providing a good answer to a lot of cards, but leave Standard relatively intact.
It's too mana intensive, but I like how Trueheart Duelist's mummy token is a Zombie and still a Human. Shenanigans with Xathrid Necromancer abound! I'm also interested in how 1 body = 3 zombies, but eh, it's Magic.
There is also a possibility that upcoming cards in Amonkhet could help improve the format in ways that aren't as risky as unbanning cards. Hopefully we see some more cards in the vein of fatal push.
@CharonsObal - The point I don't get is that just about every successful DnT list to ever place well at an event has contained a full playset of Leonin Arbiter. I think that speaks a testament to its power. The card does so much more work than is ever prevalent to the DnT player. Is it a wonderful topdeck during the late game? No, that's very true, but it shines in a lot of other scenarios. I find in the Burn matchup that Leonin Arbiter is a lynchpin in locking them out in tandem with Thalia. Burn can off sputter on lands in favor of aggressive starts, and a 1-2 punch of thalia then arbiter and maybe a ghost quarter has locked out many a game against Burn.
I do think playing things like Swords/Anthems/etc. do help alleviate the issue of topdecked Arbiters.
and instead of embracing those features like you mentioned, Wizards has dramatically toned down Instants, and made them Sorceries, or even worse, they made unplayable Instants. Why did they make Steam Augury when Fact or Fiction was available? Before Fatal Push, they were killing Sylvans with Murder. Look at how horrible Ruinous Path is, and people were forced to play that into Aetherworks Marvel and Smuggler's Copter, then they wonder why no one likes Standard.
I'm not saying the days of 1999+ Standard were perfect, but gosh-darn-it those problems were negligible compared to what we have now. They need a complete overhaul of the banned list for Modern and a really good re-evaluation of Legacy, and a brand new design team for Standard.
Sure they haven't been printing 20 must play instant spells per block, and sure they have screwed the pooch in terms of appropriate answers in these last few standard seasons, but far from what your spouting. WotC has acknowledged the need to print better answers, and I'm sure we'll see them within the next few blocks. This era of magic is far from the travesty of Mirrodin block.
Frankly your doomsaying has been almost completely baseless, especially when it comes to formats outside of Standard (can we stop talking about standard in the modern thread?). Every time they have used the ban list modern has only grown in popularity (not saying they are correlated, just saying it hasn't stopped the format). Modern GP attendance has always been stable/high, and anecdotal evidence about some people's LGSs are not to be taken as hard data. To counter it, I know of several stores in my area who are starting to support Modern due to popular demand, and there are stores near me that get 50+ people firing for their modern events weekly, sometimes multiple times a week. Wizards does products like Modern Masters because there is a demand for it. Why wouldn't they reap the rewards of that market?
Furthermore the ban list does not need an overhaul. In fact I (and many other players) like the banlist. Not everyone agrees with what you want the power level of the format to be.
@Ace1 Would you consider Aether Vial worth it considering all the recursion with Relentless Dead and that excess vials can just be pitched to Cryptbreaker/Collective Brutality/Copter?
I just noticed Silumgar's Scorn . it's obviously unplayable because no deck with blue is ever going to be running a dragon in Modern, but between that and revolt, I do thinkit's just a matter of time before we get a really good counterspell, with some thematic drawback that let's tempo and control use it with minimal difficult but makes it something combo doesn't want.
U- counter target spell, reveal your hand, the controller of the countered spell chooses a card from your hand, discard that card
I didn't include a nonland clause in the interest of it being able to hit Tron as well. no combo deck that can be obliterated by the loss of a crucial card will want to run it, but a more controlling deck would have enough draw to mitigate it. too weak, too strong?
I also welcome Memory Lapse, it would be able to shut down all in combo, but I'm not convinced how powerful it would be in the decks that already have Remand
This hypothetical card is completely unplayable - 2-for-1'ing yourself to counter a spell is never acceptable unless against something like Ad Nauseam. This card is like Swan Song except instead of getting a 2/2 bird they get to Thoughtseize you.
I'm also not sure, despite the common opinion, that better generic, 2-mana countermagic is really what control decks need to improve in Modern. Mana Leak is much-maligned but it's actually a pretty decent counterspell. The difference between Counterspell and Mana Leak, IMO, is overstated.
The real issue with countermagic in Modern is that the good ones cost 2 mana or more, which is bad for tempo when most decks have so many 1-drops.
So, you feel that FoW itself would be unplayable against all but the most all-in combo decks? interesting. for the record, i agree on Mana Leak, in my UB deck it effectively is Counterspell except against things like Tron, I would just like more of that effect, more catch-alls. Swan Song is unplayable because it doesn't catch everything, it doesn't catch creatures, not because of the bird, I could care less about that token, the problem is that most of the worst 1cmc threats in the format are creatures, Goblin Guide, Bob, Goyf, Delver, depending on draw or play, these things come down before you can cast a 2 mana counterspell. my proposed card would not be your go-to on the first turn, it is much better stopping a mid to late game mega-threat when you have had time to sculpt your hand to minimize the impact, but in an emergency it can shut down Storm or Infect or something when Mana Leak is not the best call. a Tron hand with GQ a Tower and a Map is not completely awful, counter the Map first turn and it can get very rough. my spell is for emergencies, for the decks that hit the ground running before more controlling decks can deal with them
All of these problem cards are taken care of by Fatal Push, and Path to Exile (though at a drawback), and most of them are taken care of by Bolt. There are multiple appropriate answers to early threats. There don't need to be *more answers* to early threats, they aren't the problem any more. We shouldn't have a 1 mana catch all counter spell for early threats (and we kind of already do in Spell Snare and Spell Pierce).
I just hope Wizards understands at last the gap that there is between Standard and Modern in power level. Emrakul, Copter and Reflector Mage are near to or out right unplayable in Modern, so is the Copy cat combo and Winding Constrictor. Both cards are breaking the Standard format and there is no way the format will last with those decks out right warping it.
Another question is: Did they move the April Banlist Announcement so that they could potentially ban the combo, or to unban something in Modern?
I am starting to believe they did not think about the combo at all, and I am starting to believe Winding Constrictor and the Copycat combo are the next Standard bans, after playing with the decks and realizing how broken they are in Standard(and how bad/unplayable are in Modern)
What point are you trying to make here?
The difference between Standard and Modern is just like the difference between Modern and Legacy, it doesn't necessarily have to do with power (though there definitely is a difference), but also very much context as well. Dig Through Time/Treasure Cruise/Deathrite Shaman were fine in standard, but broken in modern and legacy. Remember there are tons of powerful cards that see no play in modern, simply either because they lack the appropriate shell or the context is not right for them to shine. Emrakul, Copter, and Reflector Mage are all powerful cards and fringe playable in Modern. We also get format warping cards all the time from standard, so I have no clue what your statement is about? What does standard playability have anything to do with this format?
Standard is breaking right now because answers have lacked in comparison to threats, and Wizards has acknowledged this. While they might have to resort to more bans during this season, I believe they will have learned from their mistakes and adjust.
If they do ban Puresteel paladin they should be able to safely unban Stoneforge Mystic, so that would be an interesting outcome if that were to occur. The primary issue with having both unbanned is the free equips with cards like Batterskull and Sword of Fire and Ice. Modern has enough ways to stop artifacts that Batterskull likely isn't an issue in itself even with a cheaty face Stoneforge Mystic throwing the guy down turn 3.
I think they'll ban Mox Opal instead, though. That card is one of the things speeding up modern and if the objective is to fix moderns health as a whole, getting rid of fast mana is part of that long term solution.
Puresteel Paladin in no way, shape, or form is barring Stoneforge from coming off the ban list. Even if stoneforge was unbanned today you would not see them in the same deck.
I don't think Retract will see a ban, as wouldn't Hurkyl's Recall just do the same thing, albeit a turn later? I'm not used to the deck myself.
If a Mox Opal ban were to occur, they could just unban the artifact lands to keep affinity at the same place, while empowering some other strategies. Though I think the obvious ban is Sram.
At the moment, top-tier metagame does not include a Blue based control/attrition deck. Such decks were/are historic during all of MTG history. Modern not having such a deck into the higher tiers to represent it, is something they are looking into.
At the moment we don't really have a metagame, so why don't we let the dust settle first?
If WoTC is willing to print stronger and better answers, why would they compound that with JTMS? Giving superior removal, counters, and then Jace on top of that leads to another tier 0 deck. If Jace prevents stronger, more fair, blue cards from being printed, then he shouldn't be unbanned. Exactly kind of like the Birthing Pod being banned. Ancestral Visions and JTMS are leagues apart in this regard.
i think that big jace wouldnt do anything, like thopter-sword or bitterblossom. Nahiri seems like a better planeswalker (talking about modern obviously) than jace atm, and even with her, jeskai control is a joke. I think that the problem of control decks are not the lack these "high end finishers" like jace, nahiri and so. The problem is the lack of good toys like counterspell, and good card selection like ponder or (a man can dream), brainstorm. I think that modern would be better with this legacy gem, but i think that im on the minority
You are basically saying there is no reason to not unban Jace, The Mind Sculptor. Just go ahead, doesn't matter. I mean, that's what you said! I kind of agree in the aspect that JTMS will be fine.
Jace isn't going to get unbanned in March. It does nothing positive for the meta, and only accomplishes making certain fair decks better than other fair decks (which are not matchups fair control decks have a problem with). Jace also does this thing where he invalidates just about every other 4+ cmc walker in the game, and raises the bar future walkers would have to meet in order to be considered "playable".
At 2+ counters it turns all of your 2+ mana counters into better force of wills, not to mention all the free Ancestral Visions you'll be casting. All this to say a 4-of 3 mana enchantment does not a consistent deck make.
Instant
Counter target spell with a converted mana cost of 3 or less.
Would go along way of providing a good answer to a lot of cards, but leave Standard relatively intact.
I do think playing things like Swords/Anthems/etc. do help alleviate the issue of topdecked Arbiters.
Collected Company, Fatal Push, Dig Through Time, Become Immense, Kolaghan's Command, Atarka's Command, Abrupt Decay, Blossoming Defense, etc., etc.
Sure they haven't been printing 20 must play instant spells per block, and sure they have screwed the pooch in terms of appropriate answers in these last few standard seasons, but far from what your spouting. WotC has acknowledged the need to print better answers, and I'm sure we'll see them within the next few blocks. This era of magic is far from the travesty of Mirrodin block.
Frankly your doomsaying has been almost completely baseless, especially when it comes to formats outside of Standard (can we stop talking about standard in the modern thread?). Every time they have used the ban list modern has only grown in popularity (not saying they are correlated, just saying it hasn't stopped the format). Modern GP attendance has always been stable/high, and anecdotal evidence about some people's LGSs are not to be taken as hard data. To counter it, I know of several stores in my area who are starting to support Modern due to popular demand, and there are stores near me that get 50+ people firing for their modern events weekly, sometimes multiple times a week. Wizards does products like Modern Masters because there is a demand for it. Why wouldn't they reap the rewards of that market?
Furthermore the ban list does not need an overhaul. In fact I (and many other players) like the banlist. Not everyone agrees with what you want the power level of the format to be.
All of these problem cards are taken care of by Fatal Push, and Path to Exile (though at a drawback), and most of them are taken care of by Bolt. There are multiple appropriate answers to early threats. There don't need to be *more answers* to early threats, they aren't the problem any more. We shouldn't have a 1 mana catch all counter spell for early threats (and we kind of already do in Spell Snare and Spell Pierce).
What point are you trying to make here?
The difference between Standard and Modern is just like the difference between Modern and Legacy, it doesn't necessarily have to do with power (though there definitely is a difference), but also very much context as well. Dig Through Time/Treasure Cruise/Deathrite Shaman were fine in standard, but broken in modern and legacy. Remember there are tons of powerful cards that see no play in modern, simply either because they lack the appropriate shell or the context is not right for them to shine. Emrakul, Copter, and Reflector Mage are all powerful cards and fringe playable in Modern. We also get format warping cards all the time from standard, so I have no clue what your statement is about? What does standard playability have anything to do with this format?
Standard is breaking right now because answers have lacked in comparison to threats, and Wizards has acknowledged this. While they might have to resort to more bans during this season, I believe they will have learned from their mistakes and adjust.
Puresteel Paladin in no way, shape, or form is barring Stoneforge from coming off the ban list. Even if stoneforge was unbanned today you would not see them in the same deck.
I don't think Retract will see a ban, as wouldn't Hurkyl's Recall just do the same thing, albeit a turn later? I'm not used to the deck myself.
If a Mox Opal ban were to occur, they could just unban the artifact lands to keep affinity at the same place, while empowering some other strategies. Though I think the obvious ban is Sram.
At the moment we don't really have a metagame, so why don't we let the dust settle first?
If WoTC is willing to print stronger and better answers, why would they compound that with JTMS? Giving superior removal, counters, and then Jace on top of that leads to another tier 0 deck. If Jace prevents stronger, more fair, blue cards from being printed, then he shouldn't be unbanned. Exactly kind of like the Birthing Pod being banned. Ancestral Visions and JTMS are leagues apart in this regard.
Jace isn't going to get unbanned in March. It does nothing positive for the meta, and only accomplishes making certain fair decks better than other fair decks (which are not matchups fair control decks have a problem with). Jace also does this thing where he invalidates just about every other 4+ cmc walker in the game, and raises the bar future walkers would have to meet in order to be considered "playable".
Pretty no nonsense but with some spicy 1 drops in the form of Weathered Wayfarer and Kytheon.