Goal: eliminate the opponent's ability to win. Bridge stops most creature decks, Sadistic sacrament removes any problematic removal for bridge. Chalice and discard slow combo decks until you can hit them with a liliana / sadistic. The deck preys on most decks inability to deal with a card like ensnaring bridge main deck. Even post sideboard, there is enough disruption to eliminate risks and successfully land a bridge without worry. If bridge isn't the way to hold off damage and you need to deal with combos, you can focus more on discard and removing combo pieces / disparate threats.
This is a port over from a legacy deck I was tinkering with. I'm not very familiar with modern and still need to learn a lot about the format.
This deck looks like a pile but it really requires a completely different style of play. The goal (as stated above) is simple, but it leads to really unintuitive lines of play.
I've been out of the magic scene since covid and am still not up to speed on all of the new cards, so I'd really like help optimizing it and to get some feedback.
Bitter ordeal is probably abusable with some sort of treasure tokens, I just don't know the best options yet.
Karn, the Great Creator and a board to support him may work, but I dont know if the format is so slow that I could rely on 3 bridges main deck and 1 in board and still be alive. I agree it provides great flexibility but the cost of speed may be too great.
I was really impressed with the deck in legacy however It hinges heavily on drawing bridge. I think it's probably going to be better in modern because modern is slower.
Adding blue was worth it because Snapcaster is a cheap way to recur either your removal, discard, or exile depending on the matchup. 1 of Jace is really good just because he fits the theme so well in denying them access to their outs.
Sideboard can be ignored since it needs to be tinkered after the main deck is set.
I'd really like to get some input and ideas and possibly make this into a working deck.
The Lab Maniac win conditions are not worth cuting a slot out of the win package, as they are quite easy to disrupt. Stifle on the Angel trigger ruins your day pretty hard. In the Ooze win, you cannot lose once the dread return resolves.
Agreed. For a deck that has such an ALL IN strategy it needs to be as airtight as possible.
My initial thoughts are..
-You seem to be missing Mother of Runes, still very powerful in a 4 player pod
-The Skittles kill as a plan B (with Scion at the helm) feels powerful enough to warrant a few slots over a few of the cards in here.
I would
-Simic Charm (Probably one of the weakest / mana intensive of your protection spells)
-Gamble (Random discard not the most fun)
-Street Wraith (Generic cycling isnt as good here, as we would rather be tutoring)
-Corpse Dance (EOT exiling isnt fun)
+Mother of Runes
+Lightning Greaves
+Moltensteel Dragon
+Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon
Other than these thoughts, I really like a lot of the updates made to twist the list to a 4 man deck.
Edit:
Wouldn't Mox Diamond fit your list better than Chrome Mox?
Very solid build. I suggest perhaps switching one land for Mox Diamond. Spell Pierce and the redblasts are very valuable in a developed metagame.
@ spell pierce / red blast : Thanks for reminding me. Spell pierce might not be good enough actually. Swan song is better, its more along the lines of a hard counter. I do like the red blast idea however red is not a dominant color in the deck and worry i may be stuck in a situation where i need it but cannot cast it.
@mox diamond : while I haven't tested the mox diamond option I feel as though there are not enough lands in the deck to support it, let alone taking out a land to include it. I will test with it and try to get back to y'all.
@moltensteel: with this kill it weakens me significantly and only kills 1 enemy. I'll be exposing myself to further elimination. Most likely I won't be able to pick off the most powerful player either because they'll have a blocker or board position. When i played with this kill in the 1v1 version I never used it so i took it out in this version. I feel like mana echoes would be better because it requires 1 card slot. It can hit all enemies, and it cost the same amount of mana to "get there"
@ simic charm: this is not the most optimal card for protection. However it has been included because it is blue and easily cartable with the mana base. I would consider taking this out for another blue card possibly. Maybe arcane denial would be better since it's a hard counter spell. It does have 2 useful modes, bounce and protection, so idk if the extra green mana makes it worth getting cut.
@corpse dance : This card will stay. Exiling Eot is irrelevant because the creature gets haste. All you need is 1 activation from hermit druid. Additionally, you probably won't ever even exile Hermit druid because of the following ruling attached to Corpse Dance. 10/4/2004 Corpse Dance only exiles the card if the card is still on the battlefield at the beginning of the end step. if you cast Corpse dance at opponents Eot you will have all of your mana available to activate druid / unearth fatesticher.
@gamble : Gamble is perfect because the deck doesn't really care wether or not druid is in your hand / graveyard. Really it just wants it in either or because of the multitude of reanimation spells. If you cast gamble and don't discard druid,
@Mother of runes: I do like this card and did really like it in the 1v1 version. I will most likely cut one of the variable slots for it.
@lightning greaves : my only reservation with this is that it doesn't do anything when it comes into play. It does give all of your relevant creatures haste / protection. It helps with giving druid haste and I like it better than anger. I'll probably cut one of the variable slots for it.
Variable Slots: Id say that if you need to add cards to the deck you can cut a street wraith / gitaxian probe / gilded drake / mana sources. These won't water town the consistency. Probe / street wraith were mainly included because they are additional draw for lab maniac. Lab maniac is not in this list for perviously mentioned reasons. I would advise that if you are removing a blue card you replace it with one or don't remove too many without replacing them because you do not want to be digging for a blue card as backup for FOW / misdirection.
Heya Apple, welcome to the forums Saw your post on thesource, congrats on your tourney win. I looked at the blue-based list you and LegacyStudent played but I think the mana curve is a bit high and not sure if there's so much acceleration needed (sol ring, mana crypt etc. aren't really useful imho for this deck because you only need a max of 3 mana to operate, often it's just 2 so the games should end very early)
while the additional mana sources might be able to be cut they really come in handy when the game goes past t3.
I'm not sure if i included it in my report but there was a game where lodestone golem came out after my hermit druid was RFG. I ended up having a noble heirarch and a sol ring that really helped me find pull from eternity and reanimate hermit druid. During those turns i was searching for answers my lands were destroyed by terrastadon so my sol ring and noble really helped me out. Id say in a vacuum you are right, but the game doesn't always last 3 turns.
Id say that if you need to add cards to the deck you can cut a street wraith / gitaxian probe / gilded drake / mana sources.
Why play this Blue version over the 1v1 version? This Blue version has been optimized for 4 man pods. It also has more blue cards and packs FOW and Misdirection. These and a number of the other protective card choices help considerably when fending off threats and not knowing which of the 3 opponents its coming from. It also has a more steady manabase as most of the cards that can be blue are blue.
Why to play this deck? Because you want to win fast
Why not to play this deck? This deck is most defiantly the easiest way to get hated in a playgroup / or in side events.
I have played Emether's 1v1 list for a few months and loved the deck. His list has been optimized for 1v1 and is significantly different than the list below. I had trouble in 4 man pods because most disruption was vs 1 opponent and the man abase was off. So after some searching I found a blue list that i found has given me an easier time winning 4 man pods. The deck list below can probably use some tweaking and that's why I'm posting it, to start discussion and optimize it.
I have considered adding something like Cephalid Inkshrouder just to discard anything stuck in my hand. I've also found that with the infinite mana that devoted druid / morsel hoarder give you there are situations you can get out of just by casting memories journey into whatever you need. Past in Flames may have a place in here but unlikely because it really only helps corner cases.
I've found that the 8 cards dedicated to the combo while not the most compact it is undisruptible as long as necrotic ooze makes it into play. For an all in strategy it's what i prefer.
There are other combo's that use angel / lab maniac. You can also use underworld cerebrus and maniac. I worry that someone will have the stifle / trick bind for the angel combo, or someone will have a sphere of resistance / lodestone golem / thorn of amethyst making the cerebrus combo much weaker because it requires casting more spells.
I cut the Plan B, playing scion because playing in 4 man pods is different than 1v1 and I've found that If i can't win with plan a, I probably won't win with plan b either... At least with the Scion plan B. I have considered adding Mana echoes and running Sliver queen as my general as a slightly weaker plan b because it'll hit all enemies instead of just 1 enemy and cost just 1 deck slot.
The land base in this version is very good since the cards selected were done so specifically to support the blue colors and to be pitched to FoW and Misdirection.
Keep in mind once you dread return necrotic ooze, you win, nothing can stop you.
The % next to the number of cards are the odds of getting 1 of those cards in your opening 7.
General rule of thumb is add 5% for each card you draw after 7. So if you have a 49.91% chance to get a recursion card in your opening 7 then after drawing 3 cards you will have about a 65% chance to draw one.
Please make suggestions / ask any questions you have.
I wouldn't be so sure. He's got the Eldrazi wording, so even if you manage to counter Prossh, you still have a horde of Kobolds to deal with, which is a huge part of the problem.
a horde of 0/1's ..... really you are worried about those in edH?
Goal: eliminate the opponent's ability to win. Bridge stops most creature decks, Sadistic sacrament removes any problematic removal for bridge. Chalice and discard slow combo decks until you can hit them with a liliana / sadistic. The deck preys on most decks inability to deal with a card like ensnaring bridge main deck. Even post sideboard, there is enough disruption to eliminate risks and successfully land a bridge without worry. If bridge isn't the way to hold off damage and you need to deal with combos, you can focus more on discard and removing combo pieces / disparate threats.
This is a port over from a legacy deck I was tinkering with. I'm not very familiar with modern and still need to learn a lot about the format.
This deck looks like a pile but it really requires a completely different style of play. The goal (as stated above) is simple, but it leads to really unintuitive lines of play.
I've been out of the magic scene since covid and am still not up to speed on all of the new cards, so I'd really like help optimizing it and to get some feedback.
4 Sadistic Sacrament
Discard - 7
4 Thoughtseize
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
Removal - 13
2 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Damnation
3 Liliana of the Veil
4 Abrupt Decay
2 Snapcaster Mage
Draw - 3
1 Lifecrafter's Bestiary
1 Eyes Everywhere
1 Bottled Cloister
4 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Jace, The Mind Sculptor
Lands - 24
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Overgrown Tomb
2 Breeding Pool
1 Swamp
1 Forest
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Watery Grave
4 Polluted Delta
1 Island
2 Cranial Extraction
2 Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
4 Pithing Needle
2 Pernicious Deed
2 Surgical Extraction
3 Krosan Grip
Cards for consideration
Ideas that have been floated but not tested
I was really impressed with the deck in legacy however It hinges heavily on drawing bridge. I think it's probably going to be better in modern because modern is slower.
Adding blue was worth it because Snapcaster is a cheap way to recur either your removal, discard, or exile depending on the matchup. 1 of Jace is really good just because he fits the theme so well in denying them access to their outs.
Sideboard can be ignored since it needs to be tinkered after the main deck is set.
I'd really like to get some input and ideas and possibly make this into a working deck.
Scholar of Athreos - doesn't target it affects all opponents and is n update from previous versions
Agreed. For a deck that has such an ALL IN strategy it needs to be as airtight as possible.
@ spell pierce / red blast : Thanks for reminding me. Spell pierce might not be good enough actually. Swan song is better, its more along the lines of a hard counter. I do like the red blast idea however red is not a dominant color in the deck and worry i may be stuck in a situation where i need it but cannot cast it.
@mox diamond : while I haven't tested the mox diamond option I feel as though there are not enough lands in the deck to support it, let alone taking out a land to include it. I will test with it and try to get back to y'all.
@moltensteel: with this kill it weakens me significantly and only kills 1 enemy. I'll be exposing myself to further elimination. Most likely I won't be able to pick off the most powerful player either because they'll have a blocker or board position. When i played with this kill in the 1v1 version I never used it so i took it out in this version. I feel like mana echoes would be better because it requires 1 card slot. It can hit all enemies, and it cost the same amount of mana to "get there"
@ simic charm: this is not the most optimal card for protection. However it has been included because it is blue and easily cartable with the mana base. I would consider taking this out for another blue card possibly. Maybe arcane denial would be better since it's a hard counter spell. It does have 2 useful modes, bounce and protection, so idk if the extra green mana makes it worth getting cut.
@corpse dance : This card will stay. Exiling Eot is irrelevant because the creature gets haste. All you need is 1 activation from hermit druid. Additionally, you probably won't ever even exile Hermit druid because of the following ruling attached to Corpse Dance. 10/4/2004 Corpse Dance only exiles the card if the card is still on the battlefield at the beginning of the end step. if you cast Corpse dance at opponents Eot you will have all of your mana available to activate druid / unearth fatesticher.
@gamble : Gamble is perfect because the deck doesn't really care wether or not druid is in your hand / graveyard. Really it just wants it in either or because of the multitude of reanimation spells. If you cast gamble and don't discard druid,
@Mother of runes: I do like this card and did really like it in the 1v1 version. I will most likely cut one of the variable slots for it.
@lightning greaves : my only reservation with this is that it doesn't do anything when it comes into play. It does give all of your relevant creatures haste / protection. It helps with giving druid haste and I like it better than anger. I'll probably cut one of the variable slots for it.
Variable Slots: Id say that if you need to add cards to the deck you can cut a street wraith / gitaxian probe / gilded drake / mana sources. These won't water town the consistency. Probe / street wraith were mainly included because they are additional draw for lab maniac. Lab maniac is not in this list for perviously mentioned reasons. I would advise that if you are removing a blue card you replace it with one or don't remove too many without replacing them because you do not want to be digging for a blue card as backup for FOW / misdirection.
What cards do you wish you could add?
while the additional mana sources might be able to be cut they really come in handy when the game goes past t3.
I'm not sure if i included it in my report but there was a game where lodestone golem came out after my hermit druid was RFG. I ended up having a noble heirarch and a sol ring that really helped me find pull from eternity and reanimate hermit druid. During those turns i was searching for answers my lands were destroyed by terrastadon so my sol ring and noble really helped me out. Id say in a vacuum you are right, but the game doesn't always last 3 turns.
Id say that if you need to add cards to the deck you can cut a street wraith / gitaxian probe / gilded drake / mana sources.
its predominantly blue and better prepared to fend off threats when you do not know which of your 3 opponents to expect them from.
Why to play this deck? Because you want to win fast
Why not to play this deck? This deck is most defiantly the easiest way to get hated in a playgroup / or in side events.
I have played Emether's 1v1 list for a few months and loved the deck. His list has been optimized for 1v1 and is significantly different than the list below. I had trouble in 4 man pods because most disruption was vs 1 opponent and the man abase was off. So after some searching I found a blue list that i found has given me an easier time winning 4 man pods. The deck list below can probably use some tweaking and that's why I'm posting it, to start discussion and optimize it.
I have considered adding something like Cephalid Inkshrouder just to discard anything stuck in my hand. I've also found that with the infinite mana that devoted druid / morsel hoarder give you there are situations you can get out of just by casting memories journey into whatever you need. Past in Flames may have a place in here but unlikely because it really only helps corner cases.
I've found that the 8 cards dedicated to the combo while not the most compact it is undisruptible as long as necrotic ooze makes it into play. For an all in strategy it's what i prefer.
There are other combo's that use angel / lab maniac. You can also use underworld cerebrus and maniac. I worry that someone will have the stifle / trick bind for the angel combo, or someone will have a sphere of resistance / lodestone golem / thorn of amethyst making the cerebrus combo much weaker because it requires casting more spells.
I cut the Plan B, playing scion because playing in 4 man pods is different than 1v1 and I've found that If i can't win with plan a, I probably won't win with plan b either... At least with the Scion plan B. I have considered adding Mana echoes and running Sliver queen as my general as a slightly weaker plan b because it'll hit all enemies instead of just 1 enemy and cost just 1 deck slot.
The land base in this version is very good since the cards selected were done so specifically to support the blue colors and to be pitched to FoW and Misdirection.
Keep in mind once you dread return necrotic ooze, you win, nothing can stop you.
The following are useful links to
Emether's list / Primer <---- it's amazing
origination of the list below on MTGtheSource <---how the blue list came to be
The % next to the number of cards are the odds of getting 1 of those cards in your opening 7.
General rule of thumb is add 5% for each card you draw after 7. So if you have a 49.91% chance to get a recursion card in your opening 7 then after drawing 3 cards you will have about a 65% chance to draw one.
Please make suggestions / ask any questions you have.
1 Narcomoeba
1 Fatestitcher
1 Necrotic Ooze
1 Morselhoarder
1 Devoted Druid
1 Dread Return
1 Scholar of Athreos
1 Corpse Dance
1 Unearth
1 Reanimate
1 Postmortem Lunge
1 Shallow Grave
1 Life // Death
1 Pull From Eternity
1 Memory's Journey
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Force of Will
1 Mana Drain
1 Misdirection
1 Pact of Negation
1 Mental Misstep
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
1 Plaxmanta
1 Mizzium Skin
1 Simic Charm
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Nature's Claim
1 Snapback
1 Rapid Hybridization
1 Pongify
1 Gilded Drake
1 Grim Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Personal Tutor
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Intuition
1 Survival of the Fittest
1 Worldly Tutor
1 Sylvan Tutor
1 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Lim-Dûl's Vault
1 Eladamri's Call
1 Gamble
1 Imperial Recruiter
1 Dimir Infiltrator
1 Shred Memory
1 Muddle the Mixture
1 Entomb
1 Simian Spirit Guide
1 Elvish Spirit Guide
1 Chrome Mox
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring
1 Lotus Petal
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Noble Hierarch
1 Frantic Search
1 Brainstorm
1 Gitaxian Probe
1 Street Wraith
1 Scrubland
1 Badlands
1 Savannah
1 Taiga
1 Tundra
1 Volcanic Island
1 Bayou
1 Tropical Island
1 Underground Sea
1 Watery Grave
1 Breeding Pool
1 Arid Mesa
1 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Polluted Delta
1 Marsh Flats
1 Flooded Strand
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Sunken Ruins
1 Twilight Mire
1 Flooded Grove
1 Forbidden Orchard
1 Gemstone Mine
1 Tarnished Citadel
1 City of Brass
1 Reflecting Pool
1 Command Tower
1 Exotic Orchard
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Cavern of Souls
Scholar of Athreos - doesn't target so you don't need ray of revelation / ancient grudge.
Gilded Drake - variable slot possible replaced by Rise // Fall
Imperial Seal - easily replaced by fauna shaman
Grim Tutor - easily replaced by sylvan library
Imperial Recruiter - easily replaced by impulse
a horde of 0/1's ..... really you are worried about those in edH?