It looks a *lot* better on paper than it feels in game. Ive had one that has been slotted into multiple different decks, and he always ends up being cut because I never get the payoff out of him as easily as I expect
I really agree with the quote below. I want to emphasize:
- replacing Eye with high CMC do-nothings like conduit or wish-ring is a trap. Replace it with a land like sanctum or a legitimate stand-alone threat perferably one with a cast or ETB trigger like Newlamog, Worldbreaker, or Thought-knot.
- the deck still has a fundamental advantage against control and midrange archtypes. That the late game took a minor hit in no way turns this around.
- Out of any modern deck, tron gets the most out of a meta shift towards control.
- The best way to beat the deck is still with dedicated hate, and stony silence is much much much more beatable than crumble to dust or other land destruction. Sideboarding in 4 naturalize effects vs white decks should become the norm.
-A singleton Kozilek isn't reliable enough for the reasons purklefluff mentioned against Burn, and we're losing the ability to tutor for it easily. If you want something new that helps against Burn, test Thought-Knot Seer; it's actually relevant before you're dead, and allows for some seriously backbreaking chains of plays in a turn against them.
-Ugin can sweep Thopter Foundry's thopter tokens, as they are blue. I'd be more worried about Eldrazi sticking around along with Affinity as far as maindecking Ugin goes.
-Ancient Stirrings should never, ever, ever be sideboarded out, let alone removed from the deck in any number. It's the best dig spell in the format, and this deck uses it to fantastic effect. If you're removing any copies, you're wrong.
-Just because the deck needs to evolve doesn't mean it needs to become a glass cannon. It's still a heavy hitter that has amazing top decks, solid filtering, and good redundancy. We lost staying power in the late game, true, but that doesn't invalidate everything else this deck does well; it is still primarily a mid- to late-game deck.
-Pithing Needle now has one more good reason to consider it for the sideboard in Thopter Foundry, and also more for the support it gets, like Tezz AoB and possibly Time Sieve.
-Stony Silence is probably going to see more play; Thopter Foundry is obvious bait, and AV-playing blue mages naturally pair well with white to go to the late game.
-With the uptick in white paired with blue in control shells, we'll probably see an uptick in Path to Exile, so Thragtusk suddenly becomes more attractive.
-Ghost Quarter should still be omnipresent due to being in and against Eldrazi builds, at least more than before the Eldrazi Winter (but likely fewer than during that time). It's probably (still) worth considering a second Forest if you're not running one already.
-Conduit seems like a trap; as a singleton, I'd rather just run another real threat in its place. In multiples, I personally feel like we have to give too much to try to make that happen, but if you can make it work, go for it. (That green EldraziTron deck looks interesting and fun, by the way.)
-People continually underrate the power of Pyroclasm, but some understand: it's the ability to take out threats, sometimes waves of them, as early as turn two. No other replacement does this. Infect, Affinity, and Burn aren't going away, and now we have Thopter tokens to contend with, so having a good catch-all in Clasm is vital. Wraths, Koz's Return...good cards, but not Pyroclasm good.
-To replace Eye, we should simply be testing other good utility lands, or another threat. Ring of Three Wishes as a singleton is yet another thing that you have to cast and activate before you get to anything meaty, so it too seems like a trap. Nothing is nearly as good as Eye, granted, but we have options for the slot.
-Torpor Orb also shuts off Thopter/Sword, as well as TKS, worst-case.
The unbans will do more for us by slowing down Burn, Affinity, Infect, and other combo decks than many seem to realize. I still feel like we're favored against control, and it wouldn't take much tuning to really get some better numbers against them if that's not the case. Other midrange decks like Jund might reduce in numbers, but with Eldrazi slowed down, that puts them primarily as a midrange deck as well (though it's better than the other midrange decks against us).
This feels to me like the opposite of what happened with Tron hype once Bloom and Twin were banned; everyone expected Tron to be amazing, but very quickly the fast aggro decks were able to capitalize and force us back until the Pro Tour showed us what the Eldrazi were capable of. Now, everyone's writing off Tron (it did take a painful hit), but everything else meta-wise may well play into a favorable position for us.
I agree with just about all that you said, Thenarus. Except maybe being receptive to torpor orbs.
Sure, we lost ground in the longer matchups but remand and mana leak are still terrible counter spells late game, and we still topdeck rather well. I upped my threat count last week and will likely add another to replace eye (added a wastes for another basic and to cast thought-knot through moon, but I'm finding it dissapointing); maybe abbey, sea gate or something else.
And seriously, I've been loving the TKS in the deck; 3 main and 1 SB.
I really like the eldrazi tron version. I actually ran the deck at FNM last night and only lost a single game on my way to 4-0.
I would suggest you move emrakul to the side and add a waste to the main deck, and drop the bridges from the board for better cards (your choice of warping wail, gut shot, ratchet bomb, surgical, spatial, ect ..).
The deck is extremely powerful, and even better against midrange than the other version. The biggest draw to the deck is the fact that it topdecks soooo much better than the manland version. You could always just hit the right lands to activate eye to end the game with ulamog out of nowhere.
Having the capability to start activating eye early is just such big game. Newlamog crushes the hatecards, and this version actually runs more removal than any other. Some hands are clunky, but having a whole 'nother set of lands to abuse means that draws are much more smooth. Never getting color-screwed is just gravy.
Peek is a pretty easy replacement for gitaxia -slightly worse with young pyromancer, but better for holding up countermagic.
thought scour is very good, even with no delve creatures, it will give you more snap/kommand targets
At this point I would rather have a second keranos than the first jace, keranos is much less fragile and much more agressive. If I want something for defense, staticaster is an absolute slam dunk when he is good, so is anger. Jace has never been the same kind of windmill-slam outside of souls (which has completely fallen out of my local meta).
The command also goes well with tasigur and is even more fantastic with snapcaster. You can get to game states where your mana where you re buy snapcaster over and over
I think price is a bigger deal than many people let on as well. Why shell out 40-80$ a card when you can pick up a play set tasigurs or corsairs which (almost) do the same thing for half the price?
What is Junk's plan against us? How many, if any, of Rhino/Liliana/Souls/Tasigur do they board out? Maybe just 1 Deathmark is enough? And if they keep Souls I should bring in 2 Explosives?
On the draw I don't think I should bother with Blood Moon because it might be too difficult to create an advantageous board position before I drop it.
Thanks in advance from a novice player.
Against value attrition decks I normally shave some number (or all!) of my gitaxians first. I also shave some number of lightning bolts/electrolyze. I actually really like keeping in deprives, because using 2 mana to counter a lilana or rhino is mad value, and deprive still trades with goyf/bob at almost parity. The important bit is not to cut into any particular class of cards too hard
I want my sideboard cards to be as inexpensive as possible. In some matchups it isnt really clear what we should take out, so most of the time I end up starting by cutting some (or all!) gitaxians.
It also works decently well in mono green combo elves (30+ targets). Though I should note that it occupies this weird space where it slows down your primary gameplan in games where you godhand/go undisrupted in exchange for being slightly better in games where everything goes wrong.
Yanzup, your deck looks solid, just be sure to let us know how long it takes you to realize that deprive is far and away better than any other counterspell! Ive also found that more removal is just straight up better than spell snare.
As for the land count debate, I am a huge fan of 19 with a creeping tarpit taking the place of the fourth gitaxian. Also I like the 4/4/3/3 creature split, but with 3 young pyromancers and 4 snapcasters.
He is castable turn 3, has a cast trigger, triggers sanctum, is recurable, trumps counterspells, and blocks like a champ (suck it fliers!).
- replacing Eye with high CMC do-nothings like conduit or wish-ring is a trap. Replace it with a land like sanctum or a legitimate stand-alone threat perferably one with a cast or ETB trigger like Newlamog, Worldbreaker, or Thought-knot.
- the deck still has a fundamental advantage against control and midrange archtypes. That the late game took a minor hit in no way turns this around.
- Out of any modern deck, tron gets the most out of a meta shift towards control.
- The best way to beat the deck is still with dedicated hate, and stony silence is much much much more beatable than crumble to dust or other land destruction. Sideboarding in 4 naturalize effects vs white decks should become the norm.
oblivion stone is genius IMO!
I would suggest you move emrakul to the side and add a waste to the main deck, and drop the bridges from the board for better cards (your choice of warping wail, gut shot, ratchet bomb, surgical, spatial, ect ..).
The deck is extremely powerful, and even better against midrange than the other version. The biggest draw to the deck is the fact that it topdecks soooo much better than the manland version. You could always just hit the right lands to activate eye to end the game with ulamog out of nowhere.
Having the capability to start activating eye early is just such big game. Newlamog crushes the hatecards, and this version actually runs more removal than any other. Some hands are clunky, but having a whole 'nother set of lands to abuse means that draws are much more smooth. Never getting color-screwed is just gravy.
thought scour is very good, even with no delve creatures, it will give you more snap/kommand targets
Against value attrition decks I normally shave some number (or all!) of my gitaxians first. I also shave some number of lightning bolts/electrolyze. I actually really like keeping in deprives, because using 2 mana to counter a lilana or rhino is mad value, and deprive still trades with goyf/bob at almost parity. The important bit is not to cut into any particular class of cards too hard
As for the land count debate, I am a huge fan of 19 with a creeping tarpit taking the place of the fourth gitaxian. Also I like the 4/4/3/3 creature split, but with 3 young pyromancers and 4 snapcasters.