Bent's post is actually likely to get deleted by Wizos who want to keep the existance of any holes as minimal as possable, as I'm certain this post has started a hailstorm of attempts to figure it out by people across the board.
The thread is at four pages... there goes your theory about a WizO deleting it.
To play devil's advocate here, I have to assume one of the following took place (or possibly a combination of them) for Hasbro to agree to settle:
- R_E agreed to never spoil anything about MTG cards again (as evidenced in his new sig).
- R_E gave Hasbro some names to go after instead of him; i.e. bigger fish to fry.
- R_E has to pay a reduced amount of money to Hasbro.
_ The fine was only suspended and if Hasbro can show R_E does spoil something, that fine becomes immediately due. Sort of an insurance policy to keep R_E straight.
Whatever happened, don't get me wrong, I'd have done whatever was necessary to get me out of a situation like that.
I also think Hasbro was keeping a close eye on the spoilers coming out for Dissension. Not much has come out, so they must have felt what they did worked. If we had gotten the same amount of spoilers for Dissension that we had for Ravnica and Guildpact, I wonder if Hasbro would have settled now?
Old cards on MTGO have never represented a stable monetary investment. There is no "online reprint policy", so every card online is subject to being re-released.
Incorrect. Any set that is no longer on sale at the MTGO store will never again be sold. Individual cards in that set may very well be reprinted in another set, or in a core set, but the entire set will never be sold again.
You could only get them from the marketplace at that point, from other players.
As far as old cards not representing a stable monetary investment, tell that to all of us that have IPA. Our IPA collections are worth thousands of dollars. A Pernicious Deed alone is worth over 120.00 dollars (a foil is worth 300.00+). All IPA rares are worth at least 2 tix. People that still have boosters from those sets can sell them for 15 tix, maybe more.
Regarding owning your cards. I can sell my cards for cash. I can redeem them for paper cards. I don't care about the technicalities, they are my cards. The only time they could be taken away from you is if you behave badly enough to get banned or if they shut down the servers for good. To prevent the first, follow the rules. The second will never occur.
Agreed. I've heard of numerous sites that offer some sort of service like this for free. Can anyone mention an address? We can get a couple mods here to hopefully start it up, and lets sign. Im sure if we hit maybe 10,000 something would be done on behalf of Hasbro.
Do you really think that 10,000 people's name on a petition will have any effect on Hasbro's business decisions?
When you have 10-15 million customers worldwide that buy your product, you don't even flinch at 10,000 people complaining about something. They lose and gain that many customers in a week.
I'd be willing to bet that 10x that many people complained about the new card faces. Have you seen the old card faces come back into use yet?
That's the reason I have stopped donations recently. They are using the money we donated for lawsuits and other dumbstuff.
OK, stop right there. Money you donated to a children's hospital went to that children's hospital. It is illegal to use funds sent in for charity in any other way except for what is was intended for. You not donating to those charities only hurts the people you wanted to help in the first place. It would have zero effect on Hasbro.
Please people, think before you post stuff like this, because some people may believe the nonsense.
Okay, one last time.
You CAN'T sue someone is another country over violations of the DMCA, because other countries DON'T HAVE this law. This is shown by the cotinued and unhindered operation of sites such as The Pirates's Bay, which has been issued countless DMCA C&Ds. It simply ignores them... because contrary to what americans think, other countries DON'T follow our laws.
So to sum up: The ONLY thing that can happen to MTGsalvation is it being forced to find a new domain that doesn't operate in the United States. That's the WORST that can happen. And that's why WotC contacted Hannes's service provider, not Hannes. If we mopve servers, then WoTC can't touch MTGsalvation in court over DMCA violations. (Which is the only law they could possibly use aganst us.)
Do note that R_E's situation differs in that there's not trying to use the DMCA aganst him. Because they know they can't.
So, Hasbro is spending all this money on lawyers to pursue a lawsuit because they know they have no chance, huh?
And I like how people are using terms like "us" and "we". Are you named in this lawsuit?
Wow, this is disgusting. Why can't Hasbro see how many people it is offending by doing this.
The amount of people they are offending or driving off by this is insignificant compared to the worldwide population of people that purchase and play their game.
Quote from Zigathon »
Yeah, I was surprised that not many sites have even mentioned this yet. I would have thought MaRo to defend it the way he defends bad rares and the like.
And where the heck is the petition(s)? Has nobody gotten one together yet?
As in any other corporate lawsuit, I am sure the managing partners and lawyers for Hasbro have instructed every employee to not say anything about this action. That's the rule of thumb in these situations.
A petition will accomplish nothing. Hasbro won't even read such a thing.
Do you have those numbers on hand or are you guesstimating here
10,000,000 is a fairly good guestimate on my part, in my opinion. I'm willing to agree that it could be less, but not by much. It's really not that high of a number when you think about the product they sell worldwide. In fact, there is probably at least half that many customers in the U.S. alone.
I am not good at doing google searches, but the figures are probably out there for someone to find.
A petition for what? It won't change the course of events that is going to take place.
Quote from nandabanaotakun »
Why is retail so hard a concept to grasp? If the card store can't sell something, they won't keep putting it on shelves.
Yes, you could possibly kill the sales of Magic cards in your store (which I'm sure your shopowner will just love you for, after all, you're only destroying an aspect of his business that he generates his livelihood off of), but what about the shops in the UK? Germany? Japan? Norway? (insert foreign country here)?
No boycott can make the slightest dent in sales for Hasbro.
Quote from Tremnar »
Anyways Im sure R_E will come out of this thing unscathed and wizards will think twice before pulling this again once they see the out cry from the community. It's just not worth the bad press.
-T-
Yeah, and you can expect the new card faces to go away soon and the old ones will be back. I mean, there was a huge outcry from the community about that, wasn't there?
Just to put things in perspective, Hasbro has 10,000,000 worldwide customers that buy Magic product. That's 10 million. Let's go out on a limb and suggest that 10,000 of those people (which is a huge overestimate) actually stop playing and buying the game. That is .1%... that's your outcry? They won't even bat an eyelash at that. They lose and gain 10 times that many customers a week.
Mindmoil might be very good with tutors. Picture this: Play a tutor, Mindmoil's ability resolves first, you get to know your next hand and then decide what to fetch. If you were waiting for something specific to be in that new hand and either that card or the one you are tutoring for is an Instant, you can still play both of them.
In fact, you can do some nice stacking tricks with this.
Now that I think about it, IF it will be good in Constructed, it will most likely be with blue.
The thread is at four pages... there goes your theory about a WizO deleting it.
- R_E agreed to never spoil anything about MTG cards again (as evidenced in his new sig).
- R_E gave Hasbro some names to go after instead of him; i.e. bigger fish to fry.
- R_E has to pay a reduced amount of money to Hasbro.
_ The fine was only suspended and if Hasbro can show R_E does spoil something, that fine becomes immediately due. Sort of an insurance policy to keep R_E straight.
Whatever happened, don't get me wrong, I'd have done whatever was necessary to get me out of a situation like that.
I also think Hasbro was keeping a close eye on the spoilers coming out for Dissension. Not much has come out, so they must have felt what they did worked. If we had gotten the same amount of spoilers for Dissension that we had for Ravnica and Guildpact, I wonder if Hasbro would have settled now?
Incorrect. Any set that is no longer on sale at the MTGO store will never again be sold. Individual cards in that set may very well be reprinted in another set, or in a core set, but the entire set will never be sold again.
You could only get them from the marketplace at that point, from other players.
As far as old cards not representing a stable monetary investment, tell that to all of us that have IPA. Our IPA collections are worth thousands of dollars. A Pernicious Deed alone is worth over 120.00 dollars (a foil is worth 300.00+). All IPA rares are worth at least 2 tix. People that still have boosters from those sets can sell them for 15 tix, maybe more.
Regarding owning your cards. I can sell my cards for cash. I can redeem them for paper cards. I don't care about the technicalities, they are my cards. The only time they could be taken away from you is if you behave badly enough to get banned or if they shut down the servers for good. To prevent the first, follow the rules. The second will never occur.
That's the most ridiculous analogy I've ever read. Comparing what Hasbro is doing to rape is ludicrous.
Do you really think that 10,000 people's name on a petition will have any effect on Hasbro's business decisions?
When you have 10-15 million customers worldwide that buy your product, you don't even flinch at 10,000 people complaining about something. They lose and gain that many customers in a week.
I'd be willing to bet that 10x that many people complained about the new card faces. Have you seen the old card faces come back into use yet?
OK, stop right there. Money you donated to a children's hospital went to that children's hospital. It is illegal to use funds sent in for charity in any other way except for what is was intended for. You not donating to those charities only hurts the people you wanted to help in the first place. It would have zero effect on Hasbro.
Please people, think before you post stuff like this, because some people may believe the nonsense.
So, Hasbro is spending all this money on lawyers to pursue a lawsuit because they know they have no chance, huh?
And I like how people are using terms like "us" and "we". Are you named in this lawsuit?
The amount of people they are offending or driving off by this is insignificant compared to the worldwide population of people that purchase and play their game.
As in any other corporate lawsuit, I am sure the managing partners and lawyers for Hasbro have instructed every employee to not say anything about this action. That's the rule of thumb in these situations.
A petition will accomplish nothing. Hasbro won't even read such a thing.
10,000,000 is a fairly good guestimate on my part, in my opinion. I'm willing to agree that it could be less, but not by much. It's really not that high of a number when you think about the product they sell worldwide. In fact, there is probably at least half that many customers in the U.S. alone.
I am not good at doing google searches, but the figures are probably out there for someone to find.
A petition for what? It won't change the course of events that is going to take place.
Yes, you could possibly kill the sales of Magic cards in your store (which I'm sure your shopowner will just love you for, after all, you're only destroying an aspect of his business that he generates his livelihood off of), but what about the shops in the UK? Germany? Japan? Norway? (insert foreign country here)?
No boycott can make the slightest dent in sales for Hasbro.
Yeah, and you can expect the new card faces to go away soon and the old ones will be back. I mean, there was a huge outcry from the community about that, wasn't there?
Just to put things in perspective, Hasbro has 10,000,000 worldwide customers that buy Magic product. That's 10 million. Let's go out on a limb and suggest that 10,000 of those people (which is a huge overestimate) actually stop playing and buying the game. That is .1%... that's your outcry? They won't even bat an eyelash at that. They lose and gain 10 times that many customers a week.
Nevermind, I was wrong.