Sorry, I can't agree with your first comment, and I did miss that question from Harlannowick, my bad. For Binah, the reason was I simply couldn't think of too many cards that you can use to abuse an extra end step. But that's only based on my limited knowledge. Name a few and I'll add it!
Schutzwald
Thank you for the comments! And I definitely do agree with you for the most part.
Gevurah: Do you think he'd be balanced if I take out the sacrifice clause? Since I just learned that it doesn't even serve its intended purpose (to prevent lifelink shenanigans).
Yesod: Yupp, definitely not enough. But I do like the design though.... Not sure if I should raise it to 9 or 10, I don't think I will because that'd be not very flavourful and potentially a bit broken? (For example, we have consecrated sphinx at 10, and Jin-Gitaxis at 9).
Da'at: I can see where you're coming from. However consider this, if you use the exile ability only, it's not that useful.
Only thing I can think of is disrupting Deadeye Navigator chains, and stopping Draining Whelk and friends, I guess. The true power of Da'at comes from casting the creatures stolen, however, after paying full mana cost to cast a decent creature (4-7 cmc), you won't have too much mana left for more exiling, usually. Even in the late game, the maximum number of creatures you can cast is probably 2 a turn, and you have to tap out for that. The Legendary creature that plays somewhat similarly to Da'at I think think of is Memnarch. With that reference, Da'at seems kinda okay. Granted, this is all hypothetical and I can be totally off, so i will definitely keep your comment in mind.
Deter: I agree with you. I chose this design because it has 3 simple abilities in an intuitive package that embodies what Abzan does as a wedge. kind of like Kaalia of the Vast for Mardu. And I costed him at 5 because I wanted to be consistent within the 10 card cycle. However, i think I might have to give up on one of those. I'll figure out which
Thanks again for the comments, really appreciate it.
joejack8445
This is a great idea, turning Keter's ability into beast within style effects can be a great way to avoid the monocreature problem mentioned by Schetzwald. I'll definitely look into it. Thanks.
This is really cool! I'm a big fan of Void seer and Skyhunter Sentinel. Swift savior too, but it might be a little too powerful in standard and even modern. Maybe cost it at cancel instead of counterspell? I don't know those formats well enough to really say though.
Im saying that there is an optimal way to play Gevurah, and it is not going all in to kill a single player as quickly as possible. However you insist on playing that way and then you complain about being locked out and needing to gain 30 life because of the strategy you chose. That's what I'm trying to show you with the Rafiq example. When you choose a crappy strategy, every commander can "lock itself out of the game." Hopefully everything makes a little more sense to you now.
Just as another note, if you give Gevurah lifelink, you will gain life equal to the damage dealt. Since the effect instructs Gevurah to deal the damage, and it's no longer on the battlefield, the game uses last known information. If Gevurah had lifelink when it died, that damage is dealt as though the source had lifelink, because when it was last on the battlefield it had lifelink.
Oh wow,sorry I overlooked that. Do you know how I can word it so Gevurah doesn't just take over the game with a basilisk collar? Thanks!
Also I remade Hod.
Hod, Glory Divine 2GWU
Trample
As Hod, Glory Divine enters the battlefield, choose one -All other creatures lose all abilties; or all other creatures have base power and toughness 1/1.
Hod has the chosen ability.
6/6
I think this is just as flavorful, less oppressive and requires more thinking. However I'm really not sure if this is the correct wording for the ability.
How do you use Gevurah to one shot a player with half your life?
And if i'm understanding you correctly, you believe that it's correct to take yourself down to 5 life to kill a single player in a 4 player game?
Commander damage is a thing. You only need to deal 21 damage to a player with your commander in order for them to lose. Its definitely correct to drop yourself to 24 life in order to kill the most dangerous player.
Ohhhh, I apologize. In my reply to you I assumed that you are at least somewhat familiar with the commander format. That's my fault. A lot of my comments are probably meaningless or misleading to you then. :/
I guess I'll just answer your simpler questions then. No love for naya? I LOVE NAYA! And I've decided to use the Emanation Hesod as my Naya general. I've spent a while on it but still can not come up with a design I like. I'll keep trying.
How do you use Gevurah to one shot a player with half your life?
And if i'm understanding you correctly, you believe that it's correct to take yourself down to 5 life to kill a single player in a 4 player game?
Also, you said that: "Even if you kill the general, it just sets back these aggressive players a couple turns while they gain more mana". Isnt it the same for Gevurah?
You are the one who decided that you want to go all in to kill a player, and then you complain about being locked out of the game with low life. Thats like saying: "Rafiq is a crappy commander because it's correct to take out a player with Might of Oaks + Distortion Strike + Counterspell to answer their removal, but then you're screwed because you just spent 3 cards to kill a player and have none left in hand.
Thank you for the comments. Solid observations and some question I have difficulty answering.
First of all, I want to state that flavor had a lot of influence on these designs, perhaps a lot more that it should. In fact I did not realize that until after making the post and reading your comments. I just did what made sense to me for each entity and these are the results.
IcariiFA
Gevurah: In this case my design was heavily influenced by the wonderful art. To me, this emanation looks like death itself. And I wanted to make a card that represents Mardu, a even more extreme combination than Rakdos, in my mind. A card that suicides itself and its controller in order to crush the enemies.It is a really scary commander to play against. My view on this card might be biased due to my play style but personally I'd never go all in to kill a single player. I envisioned decks around Gevurah to be very attrition heavy, utilizing your life total as a resource and playing a few combo cards like Soul Conduit and the aforementioned Exquisite Blood. I believe that this is the approach that most players will go with. However, I do agree that once in a while you'd run into a player who ramps out Gevurah on turn 3, and then cast Beacon of Immortality on turn 4 to kill someone. Although to me this honestly isn't that different from people who play Kaalia into Master of Cruelties, Rafiq into Putrefax, or Skythrix into Hatred. You run into those players once in a while, and it's just part of the game. It's likely that I've overlooked other broken combos though, so please let me know if I did.
Binah: The 5/4 stats just appeals to me a lot more than 4/5,for some reason, and it's not unprecedented in Esper. (Enigma Sphinx). However I still think you're right. Partly because after thinking about it for a bit I realized that Binah can dish out 10 commander damage a turn on her own. That's more than Rafiq of the Many, and on par with Gisela. Thats pretty hilarious. So yeah, I'm definitely taking the power down to 4. And I'll make up my mind between 4/4 and 4/5.
Hod: yes this guy is another very top-down design, and the ability is largely inspired by his flavour text, which I got from the Angelarium site. I should try to think of a less oppressive ability that portrays the same flavour.
Yesod: Why not! I think I might set this at 4/4 and Binah at 4/5
Thanks again for the help! Would love to hear more comments from you!
Shadowfate
Yupp, I think I should rework this guy. Any suggestions for keywords that fit Naya. Trample and Haste are taken by 2 other cards that I haven't posted.
As long as the total power of other creatures you control is 8 or less, other creatures you control can't be blocked.
That's an interesting idea! I'm not too sure if is the number I want for that though. Im just Imagining Inkwell Leviathan or Goliath Sphinx sneaking around at night doing some assassinations. But anything lower than 8 can make the general a bit weak and restrictive. Will have to look into it.
3RR Sorcery
Gain control of all creatures with power 2 or less, creatures with power 3 or more can't block this turn.
And I thought it was so flavorful, the smaller creatures revolting and the larger dudes were caught by surprise. Then I read again and realized it's choose one.That is still cool. I'm just wondering though, would the card be too overpowered if it does both effects at 5 mana?
Been working on these for a bit. Art and some flavour text from Peter Moharbacher's Angelarium site. (http://www.angelarium.net/)
Gevurah, the Left Hand: Mardu, the colours of taking tremendous risks and reaping even greater rewards. At a glace, Gevurah seems to have an easily abusable ability. Abusable, most definitely, but it is far from easy. Yes, Gevurah can potentially destroy a single opponent with extreme efficiency. So can Rafiq and Skythrix. However that is not what commander is about, is it? The time to cool down your heated Mardu head is when you realize how extremely inefficient it can be to directly go for your opponents' life totals, and one life per damage is also relatively weak against creatures. The sacrifice clause is added to specifically stop broken lifelink synergies, so you'll have to think of more creative ways to use him. Gaining tons of life with cards like Beacon of Immortality is one way to do it, giving psuedo lifelink with Exquisite Blood is another. Trigger Gevurah's ability over and over with cards like corpse dance can be fun, but make sure to provide him with some evasion like Whispersilk Cloak so he can get through.
Binah, the Light of Existence: Esper, the colours of manipulation. Like how Sen Triplets can exploit an opponent's mind, Binah has the ability to toy with time and reality by bending fundamental rules of the game. Dominating? Attack twice with Binah and other creatures with vigilence to close out the game. Falling behind? Take an extra draw step and dig for answers. Feeling creative? Abuse the extra upkeep with cards like Venser's Journal, World Queller and even Eternal Dominion.
Hod, Glory Divine: Bant, the colours of peace, law, and order. Instead of killing, bant prefers rendering their enemies harmless. (See Song of the Dryads, Humility, and Polymorphist's Jest.). Hod humbles all creatures, but in different ways depending on the board state. He gets to decide weather brains or brawn will dictate the outcome of a game. I haven't explored too many interactions with him yet, but a simple Cloudshift can create some pretty hilarious combat phases.
Yesod, the Pale Moonlight: Grixis, the colours of lots of bad things (source:Wikipedia). Deception is the keyword here for Yesod. Like the dark of the night, Yesod provides cover for her minions that are stealthy enough. To be honest I'm not too sure what the best way to abuse this guy is, but I feel like there is a lot of potential to explore. You can do some solid beatdown with cards like Pitiless Horde. However, the better approach is perhaps using her to enable fragile creatures that generate value when they connect. Dimir Curpurse, Thada Adel, Acquisitor, and more notably, Phage the Untouchable come to mind. This might also be a better Ninja commander than Vela the Night-Clad? It's a bit awkward,really. When I first made this card, I thought:"This is so awesome there will be so many creatures that work well with this". Then I did a gatherer search and couldn't find much at all. I really like the flavour and design space here, but I don't think there is currently enough support for Yesod in the MTG card pool. I'd love to be proven wrong though
Da'at, the Blessed Container: Jeskai, the colours of patience, meditation, and enlightenment. The flavour of this card is that Da'at can bring calmness and serenity to the creatures that are rushing to battle, and guide them to participate in a session of meditation. Afterwards, some of them may decide to give up fighting for their meaningless causes and join your side. Da'at is a relatively controlling card, but it isnt oppressive (hopefully). Your opponents have be careful and evaluate the risks with every creature spell they cast. They know that most of them will probably end up on their side eventually, since the exile cost isn't cheap, and Da'at has to pay the full cost of the creatures to cast them. However, the few key creatures like Consecrated Sphinx, and Prophet of Kruphix OMG especially Prophet or Kruphix, might choose to defect. Even when a creature is already on the battlefield, it's still possible to convert them. A simple Otherworldly Journey or Sudden Disappearance can catch your opponents off guard. If you want to be "that guy", there are ways. Cards like Containment Priest and Hallowed Moonlight can turn Da'at's ability into reusable Essence Scatter for RWU. (I originally costed Da'at's ablity at 2, the interaction with Containment Priest alone made me nerf it.) Similar to Hod, I really wish I could fit a keyword onto the card though :/
Keter, the Infinite Stream: Abzan, the colours of endurance, attrition, and blowing stuff up. Keter does exactly that. When building commander decks, I always have to strike a balance between threats (usually dudes) and answers (removals). Keter allows you to be free from that constraint by being the only removal you'll ever need. (blow up artifacts, creatures, enchantments and trampling into Planeswalkers.). With Keter, you can focus on developing your own game plan, which should involve a decent number of cards for each permanent type. You can play creatures like Solemn Simulacrum, Courser of Kruphix, or Whip of Erebos for more flexibility. You can also go for some sweet synergy with Stonecloaker, White Mane Lion, or even Cage of Hands.
I really like your wanderer list. I love that general because it allows you to play the traditional rug goodstuff, but with an aggressive twist that most goodstuff decks don't have. And your deck seems like exactly that.
A card that I really like is Shaman of the Great Hunt. One of the problems with aggro in edh is finding cards that are aggressively costed but are also impactful when the game inevitably draws long. I think shaman does that really well, attacking for 4 on turn 4 and can grow every turn after. Late game it's also a really solid draw engine with all those fatties you have in the deck.
Lastly, I'm not sure how much the deck needs card draw beyond the Card advantage that Maestrom Wanderer nets you, since I've never really played that deck. However Recurring Insignt and Nissa's Revelation along with the aforementioned Hunt shaman dude are some pretty solid ones. I also think Prime Speaker Zegana herself might even have a spot in the deck too
Jack puddy! Thanks for the reply! Gosh I honestly have no idea what happened to physchosis crawler. It was a house in the deck a while ago and somehow I took it out and just completely forgot about it. I'm pretty sure I'm putting it back in now. Definitely takes priority before stuff like soul of phyrexia and wurmcoil. For masumaro. I kinda just wrote it off because I considered it to be worse than multani. However it's not always worse than multani and the reason I don't play multani is because I don't like the art. I Really like masumaro's art. So I'm gonna test it.
The reason I don't play a lot of draw spells other than Zegana is that I don't need to. From testing a lot of games, it's proven that Zegana is enough draw power the deck will ever need, especially after the change in tuck rule. That's kinda the reason she's my general. So yeah, help me say thanks to your friend, I'm slotting both of them in.
Sorry, I can't agree with your first comment, and I did miss that question from Harlannowick, my bad. For Binah, the reason was I simply couldn't think of too many cards that you can use to abuse an extra end step. But that's only based on my limited knowledge. Name a few and I'll add it!
Schutzwald
Thank you for the comments! And I definitely do agree with you for the most part.
Gevurah: Do you think he'd be balanced if I take out the sacrifice clause? Since I just learned that it doesn't even serve its intended purpose (to prevent lifelink shenanigans).
Yesod: Yupp, definitely not enough. But I do like the design though.... Not sure if I should raise it to 9 or 10, I don't think I will because that'd be not very flavourful and potentially a bit broken? (For example, we have consecrated sphinx at 10, and Jin-Gitaxis at 9).
Da'at: I can see where you're coming from. However consider this, if you use the exile ability only, it's not that useful.
Only thing I can think of is disrupting Deadeye Navigator chains, and stopping Draining Whelk and friends, I guess. The true power of Da'at comes from casting the creatures stolen, however, after paying full mana cost to cast a decent creature (4-7 cmc), you won't have too much mana left for more exiling, usually. Even in the late game, the maximum number of creatures you can cast is probably 2 a turn, and you have to tap out for that. The Legendary creature that plays somewhat similarly to Da'at I think think of is Memnarch. With that reference, Da'at seems kinda okay. Granted, this is all hypothetical and I can be totally off, so i will definitely keep your comment in mind.
Deter: I agree with you. I chose this design because it has 3 simple abilities in an intuitive package that embodies what Abzan does as a wedge. kind of like Kaalia of the Vast for Mardu. And I costed him at 5 because I wanted to be consistent within the 10 card cycle. However, i think I might have to give up on one of those. I'll figure out which
Thanks again for the comments, really appreciate it.
joejack8445
This is a great idea, turning Keter's ability into beast within style effects can be a great way to avoid the monocreature problem mentioned by Schetzwald. I'll definitely look into it. Thanks.
Im saying that there is an optimal way to play Gevurah, and it is not going all in to kill a single player as quickly as possible. However you insist on playing that way and then you complain about being locked out and needing to gain 30 life because of the strategy you chose. That's what I'm trying to show you with the Rafiq example. When you choose a crappy strategy, every commander can "lock itself out of the game." Hopefully everything makes a little more sense to you now.
Anyways. If you don't mind I think I'll move on from this conversation to more useful ones. If you still want to learn more about the commander format, this thread will probably do a better job satisfying your needs: http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh/599015-a-brief-intro-to-commander-edh
Oh wow,sorry I overlooked that. Do you know how I can word it so Gevurah doesn't just take over the game with a basilisk collar? Thanks!
Also I remade Hod.
Hod, Glory Divine 2GWU
Trample
As Hod, Glory Divine enters the battlefield, choose one -All other creatures lose all abilties; or all other creatures have base power and toughness 1/1.
Hod has the chosen ability.
6/6
I think this is just as flavorful, less oppressive and requires more thinking. However I'm really not sure if this is the correct wording for the ability.
Ohhhh, I apologize. In my reply to you I assumed that you are at least somewhat familiar with the commander format. That's my fault. A lot of my comments are probably meaningless or misleading to you then. :/
I guess I'll just answer your simpler questions then. No love for naya? I LOVE NAYA! And I've decided to use the Emanation Hesod as my Naya general. I've spent a while on it but still can not come up with a design I like. I'll keep trying.
How do you use Gevurah to one shot a player with half your life?
And if i'm understanding you correctly, you believe that it's correct to take yourself down to 5 life to kill a single player in a 4 player game?
Also, you said that: "Even if you kill the general, it just sets back these aggressive players a couple turns while they gain more mana". Isnt it the same for Gevurah?
You are the one who decided that you want to go all in to kill a player, and then you complain about being locked out of the game with low life. Thats like saying: "Rafiq is a crappy commander because it's correct to take out a player with Might of Oaks + Distortion Strike + Counterspell to answer their removal, but then you're screwed because you just spent 3 cards to kill a player and have none left in hand.
First of all, I want to state that flavor had a lot of influence on these designs, perhaps a lot more that it should. In fact I did not realize that until after making the post and reading your comments. I just did what made sense to me for each entity and these are the results.
IcariiFA
Gevurah: In this case my design was heavily influenced by the wonderful art. To me, this emanation looks like death itself. And I wanted to make a card that represents Mardu, a even more extreme combination than Rakdos, in my mind. A card that suicides itself and its controller in order to crush the enemies.It is a really scary commander to play against. My view on this card might be biased due to my play style but personally I'd never go all in to kill a single player. I envisioned decks around Gevurah to be very attrition heavy, utilizing your life total as a resource and playing a few combo cards like Soul Conduit and the aforementioned Exquisite Blood. I believe that this is the approach that most players will go with. However, I do agree that once in a while you'd run into a player who ramps out Gevurah on turn 3, and then cast Beacon of Immortality on turn 4 to kill someone. Although to me this honestly isn't that different from people who play Kaalia into Master of Cruelties, Rafiq into Putrefax, or Skythrix into Hatred. You run into those players once in a while, and it's just part of the game. It's likely that I've overlooked other broken combos though, so please let me know if I did.
Binah: The 5/4 stats just appeals to me a lot more than 4/5,for some reason, and it's not unprecedented in Esper. (Enigma Sphinx). However I still think you're right. Partly because after thinking about it for a bit I realized that Binah can dish out 10 commander damage a turn on her own. That's more than Rafiq of the Many, and on par with Gisela. Thats pretty hilarious. So yeah, I'm definitely taking the power down to 4. And I'll make up my mind between 4/4 and 4/5.
Hod: yes this guy is another very top-down design, and the ability is largely inspired by his flavour text, which I got from the Angelarium site. I should try to think of a less oppressive ability that portrays the same flavour.
Yesod: Why not! I think I might set this at 4/4 and Binah at 4/5
Thanks again for the help! Would love to hear more comments from you!
Shadowfate
Yupp, I think I should rework this guy. Any suggestions for keywords that fit Naya. Trample and Haste are taken by 2 other cards that I haven't posted.
That's an interesting idea! I'm not too sure if is the number I want for that though. Im just Imagining Inkwell Leviathan or Goliath Sphinx sneaking around at night doing some assassinations. But anything lower than 8 can make the general a bit weak and restrictive. Will have to look into it.
3RR Sorcery
Gain control of all creatures with power 2 or less, creatures with power 3 or more can't block this turn.
And I thought it was so flavorful, the smaller creatures revolting and the larger dudes were caught by surprise. Then I read again and realized it's choose one.That is still cool. I'm just wondering though, would the card be too overpowered if it does both effects at 5 mana?
Gevurah, the Left Hand: Mardu, the colours of taking tremendous risks and reaping even greater rewards. At a glace, Gevurah seems to have an easily abusable ability. Abusable, most definitely, but it is far from easy. Yes, Gevurah can potentially destroy a single opponent with extreme efficiency. So can Rafiq and Skythrix. However that is not what commander is about, is it? The time to cool down your heated Mardu head is when you realize how extremely inefficient it can be to directly go for your opponents' life totals, and one life per damage is also relatively weak against creatures. The sacrifice clause is added to specifically stop broken lifelink synergies, so you'll have to think of more creative ways to use him. Gaining tons of life with cards like Beacon of Immortality is one way to do it, giving psuedo lifelink with Exquisite Blood is another. Trigger Gevurah's ability over and over with cards like corpse dance can be fun, but make sure to provide him with some evasion like Whispersilk Cloak so he can get through.
Hod, Glory Divine: Bant, the colours of peace, law, and order. Instead of killing, bant prefers rendering their enemies harmless. (See Song of the Dryads, Humility, and Polymorphist's Jest.). Hod humbles all creatures, but in different ways depending on the board state. He gets to decide weather brains or brawn will dictate the outcome of a game. I haven't explored too many interactions with him yet, but a simple Cloudshift can create some pretty hilarious combat phases.
Da'at, the Blessed Container: Jeskai, the colours of patience, meditation, and enlightenment. The flavour of this card is that Da'at can bring calmness and serenity to the creatures that are rushing to battle, and guide them to participate in a session of meditation. Afterwards, some of them may decide to give up fighting for their meaningless causes and join your side. Da'at is a relatively controlling card, but it isnt oppressive (hopefully). Your opponents have be careful and evaluate the risks with every creature spell they cast. They know that most of them will probably end up on their side eventually, since the exile cost isn't cheap, and Da'at has to pay the full cost of the creatures to cast them. However, the few key creatures like Consecrated Sphinx, and Prophet of Kruphix OMG especially Prophet or Kruphix, might choose to defect. Even when a creature is already on the battlefield, it's still possible to convert them. A simple Otherworldly Journey or Sudden Disappearance can catch your opponents off guard. If you want to be "that guy", there are ways. Cards like Containment Priest and Hallowed Moonlight can turn Da'at's ability into reusable Essence Scatter for RWU. (I originally costed Da'at's ablity at 2, the interaction with Containment Priest alone made me nerf it.) Similar to Hod, I really wish I could fit a keyword onto the card though :/
Keter, the Infinite Stream: Abzan, the colours of endurance, attrition, and blowing stuff up. Keter does exactly that. When building commander decks, I always have to strike a balance between threats (usually dudes) and answers (removals). Keter allows you to be free from that constraint by being the only removal you'll ever need. (blow up artifacts, creatures, enchantments and trampling into Planeswalkers.). With Keter, you can focus on developing your own game plan, which should involve a decent number of cards for each permanent type. You can play creatures like Solemn Simulacrum, Courser of Kruphix, or Whip of Erebos for more flexibility. You can also go for some sweet synergy with Stonecloaker, White Mane Lion, or even Cage of Hands.
A card that I really like is Shaman of the Great Hunt. One of the problems with aggro in edh is finding cards that are aggressively costed but are also impactful when the game inevitably draws long. I think shaman does that really well, attacking for 4 on turn 4 and can grow every turn after. Late game it's also a really solid draw engine with all those fatties you have in the deck.
Your list seems very very solid but I noticed a few lands missing. Most notable Kessig Wolf Run and Flamekin Village, and Alchemist's Refuge.
Lastly, I'm not sure how much the deck needs card draw beyond the Card advantage that Maestrom Wanderer nets you, since I've never really played that deck. However Recurring Insignt and Nissa's Revelation along with the aforementioned Hunt shaman dude are some pretty solid ones. I also think Prime Speaker Zegana herself might even have a spot in the deck too
The reason I don't play a lot of draw spells other than Zegana is that I don't need to. From testing a lot of games, it's proven that Zegana is enough draw power the deck will ever need, especially after the change in tuck rule. That's kinda the reason she's my general. So yeah, help me say thanks to your friend, I'm slotting both of them in.