Why would you need advocates? Are you struggling in aggro matchup even with all the mass removal? I play a different list that curves much lower with grim flayer and advocates and only use red for cheap removal to get grim flayer in since my meta has a lot of creature decks. Your list wants to be the over the top emerge/kozileks returns list and advocates wouldn't help much in my opinion.
I believe the new sultai emerge is the way to go because you get haunted dead prized amalgams as sac targets with recurrence, Elder Deep Fiend, and the green delirium enablers.
I guess you need to figure out what you want to be doing with your deck and optimize it to be just that. These bigger jund emerge lists are forgetting powerful cards like grim flayer and sometimes even lilianas.
So after playing around with a B/R madness deck for a while I think I know where it wants to be finally. I've tried Drana, Olivia, Relentless Dead... I think this deck just wants to be fast. 12 1 drop creatures 12 2 drop creatures 4 3 drop creatures, 12 burn spells.
On curve we want to see something like this
T1 1 drop
T2 2 Drop madness enabler
T3 Incorrible Youth
Following turns burn spells
T1 1 drop
T2 2 drop madness enabler
T3 Alms/Fiery for 1 mana next 2 mana surge Reckless Bushwacker
Follow up with burn
I just got all the pieces for this deck except my other two lillys. She jumped price before I could get them. Anyways, I believe B/G benefits from red. My list will use Arlinn and Ulrich to buff my grim flayer or mindwrack.
Creatures
4 Grim Flayer
2 Olivia, Mobilized for War
4 Mindwrack Demon
2 Ulrich, of the Krallenhorde
Planeswalkers
4 Liliana, The Last Hope
3 Arlinn Kord
Instants
4 Galvanic Bombardment
3 Ultimate Price
Sorceries
2 Prey Upon
3 Traverse the Ulvenwald
2 Ruinous Path
Enchantments
3 Oath of Nissa
24 Lands
I ran 7 of instants, Sorceries, and Planeswalkers. Statistically Delirium should be easy to enable. I used cheap sorcery removal (prey upon) and instant removal (Galvanic Bombardment). T1 hopefully play an oath or Traverse to fix mana.
Is anybody talking about grim flayer? He seems strong in the right shell. Saw he dropped 5$ maybe overhyped?
Thinking of a shell that supports big trample guys (mindwrack and grim). The R/G mythics serve a more supportive role this standard. Arlinn and Ulrich both buff and remove blockers. Liliana protects your attackers and pushes 1 more damage through by -1 toughness creatures. The only question is how fast can a deck like that put your opponent on there heels.
Sample list
4 Deathcap Cultivator
4 Grim Flayer
2 Olivia Mobilized for War
4 Mindwrack Demon
1 Ulrich of the Krallenhorde
4 Liliana, The Last Hope
3 Arlinn Kord
4 Traverse the Ulvenwald
2 Ruinous Path
4 Galvanic Bombardment
2 Ultimate Price
I think it has the right amount of redundancy. Olivia and Arlinn enable haste. Arlinn's vigilance is awesome with your big trample dudes. Both Planeswalkers protect themselves. Ulrich and Arlinn make your trample guys stronger.
Anyone testing Eldritch Evolution? I think it has potential. If Jund is to become Tier 1 it needs solid answers to aggressive decks. I'm seeing potential in a T3 Kalitas rather consistently, whether it be from Eldritch Evolution sac a 2 drop like Primal Druid, get land tapped, and search deck for Kalitas; or from deathcap cultivator ramp into it with Kalitas in hand
I'm trying a bigger list that closes with t3 Olivia T4 Mindwrack Demon swing for 8. Not having delirium isn't to problematic unless you're racing humans. It offers a lot of evasion and graveyard recursion.
I think testing will prove Ulrich a far superior card than GDD. The flip is a removal. It's initial ETB trigger will force a chump block. So if he gets 2 turns you just 2 for 1'd your opponent.
It seems solid in my list. Id say creature heavy decks want Ulrich but spell based GDD could be good. I think a list with GDD is more control than midrange. What does everyone think of cryptbreaker/Kalitas late game draw engine? That's the reason for my 1-of in list and a way to activate delirium.
I dropped red and went straight g/b. I like the consistency of the mana base. Is there a reason to run red as another color that makes me win more?
[deck]b/g [/deck/}
Creatures
4 Sylvan advocate
4 Grim flayer
4 mindwrack demon
1 Nissa vastwood seer
Will probably add either tireless trackers and emrakul or more removal.
You lose out on cheap early removal, a solid creature in olivia, and also Ulrich; which if played correctly should win you the matchup by generating massive CA.
I don't see much appeal in olivia or Ulrich (mostly because GDD is the best 5-drop you can have and I don't want more of those), but Fiery Impulse is just clutch. Radiant Flames is also quite good and unique. Chandra is a great wincon and extra sweeper; just very versatile.
well, anyone can play whatever they feel like. In my opinion every other list is worse than mine. but don't post BG lists in the Jund thread at least.
Ulrich on a Kalitas will be just nuts. 7/8 lifelink? Block I get a 2/2. Then you don't cast a spell Ulrich flips fights another guy giving you a 2/2. If you curve out perfectly with an Olivia t3 into a mindwrack t4 with discard to haste you get 8 damage t4 and t5 the Ulrich gives you the last 4 on a flyer to do 12. That's very powerful. What's GDD
I dropped red and went straight g/b. I like the consistency of the mana base. Is there a reason to run red as another color that makes me win more?
[deck]b/g [/deck/}
Creatures
4 Sylvan advocate
4 Grim flayer
4 mindwrack demon
1 Nissa vastwood seer
Will probably add either tireless trackers and emrakul or more removal.
You lose out on cheap early removal, a solid creature in olivia, and also Ulrich; which if played correctly should win you the matchup by generating massive CA.
I think Jund gains a lot with new emerge costs. Picking up 5 mana spider mythic give you a body to sac to play decimator of the provinces and makes his spiders 3/4 tramplers... We also gain new eldrazi insect which is nuts in the mirror! Take out a removal and a bomb!
My metagame is mostly aggro and a few ramp decks. I would MD weenie hate until my given metagame changes. For now my list.
If it were more midrange type decks we could go bigger with 5 drop spider into Decimator of provinces. I think this deck is very flexible and can adapt to the meta.
I think Jund stands to be competitive once again with everything it picks up from Eldritch Moon. I think the concept for it is to play olivia t3, delirium demon t4 with a discard to haste it into a 5/6 flying trample haste. Then clean up would be new mythic werewolf to add a buff to either flyer for the kill. That'd be the best the deck could draw presenting lethal t5. Other cards from the new set would be the big pig and grim flayer. Idk if lilly is needed main or sb. She seems very good in this deck to recover creatures grim or delirium demon throw in yard. Her plus 1 halts attacks. I'll post my list a little later.
I would think about some of the eldrazi in standard to replace sub-par performing vampires. Your list gets 2 creatures in new set but still no value 1 drop. I'm trying reaver drone and Bearer of Silence as 4 of's in main and 2 of Eldrazi Obligator in SB. I think this deck wants to board to be midrange especially in the aggro mirror when you're on the draw. I'm thinking 4 new lilly and 3 kalitas in board maybe an extra land too. Playing this at a Wednesday standard without lillys or kalitas and I'll see how it goes.
You are playing control. Control is not tempo. Tempo is playing aggressive early and then disrupting your opponent with cheap efficient spells while you ride your board state to victory.
I know the definitions. I even said my build is on the more controlling side, but your list is no where near tempo. You have no way to protect your early threats (and I run only -3 than you...rabblemaster), and you run 9 ramp sources. I'd consider Force Away and Disdainful Stroke over cards like Charm and Helix, as they are better positioned imho (and are also much better tempo spells).
Anyways, beyond semantics anyone get any testing done this weekend?
9 Ramp spells because Knuckleblade protects itself AND IS SUPER MANA HUNGRY. Also 3-color needs fixing. I think the deck requires them and why not? Your beats come down T3 give me a better T2 play. I can further validate the dorks with triton tactics/retraction helix.
I believe the new sultai emerge is the way to go because you get haunted dead prized amalgams as sac targets with recurrence, Elder Deep Fiend, and the green delirium enablers.
I guess you need to figure out what you want to be doing with your deck and optimize it to be just that. These bigger jund emerge lists are forgetting powerful cards like grim flayer and sometimes even lilianas.
On curve we want to see something like this
T1 1 drop
T2 2 Drop madness enabler
T3 Incorrible Youth
Following turns burn spells
T1 1 drop
T2 2 drop madness enabler
T3 Alms/Fiery for 1 mana next 2 mana surge Reckless Bushwacker
Follow up with burn
4 Indulgent Aristocrat
4 Vampire Cutthroat
4 Heir of Falkenrath
4 Stromkirk Condemned
4 Reckless Bushwhacker
4 Incorrigible Youths
4 Incendiary Flow
1 Collective Brutality
4 Fiery Temper
19 Lands
2 Lands
4 Duress
2 Malevolent Whispers
3 Liliana, The Last Hope
2 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
2 Fiery Impulse
We beat mirror aggro decks with Kalitas and Liliana... The Malevolent Whispers takes Emrakul or big eldrazi's. Duress for control.
Creatures
4 Grim Flayer
2 Olivia, Mobilized for War
4 Mindwrack Demon
2 Ulrich, of the Krallenhorde
Planeswalkers
4 Liliana, The Last Hope
3 Arlinn Kord
Instants
4 Galvanic Bombardment
3 Ultimate Price
Sorceries
2 Prey Upon
3 Traverse the Ulvenwald
2 Ruinous Path
Enchantments
3 Oath of Nissa
24 Lands
I ran 7 of instants, Sorceries, and Planeswalkers. Statistically Delirium should be easy to enable. I used cheap sorcery removal (prey upon) and instant removal (Galvanic Bombardment). T1 hopefully play an oath or Traverse to fix mana.
Thinking of a shell that supports big trample guys (mindwrack and grim). The R/G mythics serve a more supportive role this standard. Arlinn and Ulrich both buff and remove blockers. Liliana protects your attackers and pushes 1 more damage through by -1 toughness creatures. The only question is how fast can a deck like that put your opponent on there heels.
Sample list
4 Deathcap Cultivator
4 Grim Flayer
2 Olivia Mobilized for War
4 Mindwrack Demon
1 Ulrich of the Krallenhorde
4 Liliana, The Last Hope
3 Arlinn Kord
4 Traverse the Ulvenwald
2 Ruinous Path
4 Galvanic Bombardment
2 Ultimate Price
I think it has the right amount of redundancy. Olivia and Arlinn enable haste. Arlinn's vigilance is awesome with your big trample dudes. Both Planeswalkers protect themselves. Ulrich and Arlinn make your trample guys stronger.
4 Reaver Drone
1 Indulgent Aristocrat
3 Stromkirk Condemned
4 Heir of Falkenrath
4 Relentless Dead
2 Despoiler of Souls
4 Olivia, Mobilized for War
3 Mindwrack Demon
1 Voldaren Pariah
1 Grasp of Darkness
4 Fiery Temper
4 Smoldering Marsh
4 Foreboding Ruins
15 Swamp
4 Liliana, The Last Hope
2 Trangress the Mind
2 Distended Mindbender
1 Dead weight
2 Ultimate Price
2 Dual Shot
2 Malevolent Whispers
Ulrich on a Kalitas will be just nuts. 7/8 lifelink? Block I get a 2/2. Then you don't cast a spell Ulrich flips fights another guy giving you a 2/2. If you curve out perfectly with an Olivia t3 into a mindwrack t4 with discard to haste you get 8 damage t4 and t5 the Ulrich gives you the last 4 on a flyer to do 12. That's very powerful. What's GDD
You lose out on cheap early removal, a solid creature in olivia, and also Ulrich; which if played correctly should win you the matchup by generating massive CA.
My metagame is mostly aggro and a few ramp decks. I would MD weenie hate until my given metagame changes. For now my list.
1 Cryptbreaker
3 Blisterpod
4 Deathcap Cultivator
2 Grim Flayer
3 Duskwatch Recruiter
2 Lambholt Pacifist
3 Olivia, Mobilized for War
2 Catacomb Sifter
2 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
1 Ulrich of the Krallenhorde
2 Prey Upon
2 Eldritch Evolution
6 Instants
2 Ultimate Price
4 Galvanic Bombardment
4 Liliana, The last hope
23 Lands
If it were more midrange type decks we could go bigger with 5 drop spider into Decimator of provinces. I think this deck is very flexible and can adapt to the meta.
For this deck to be stronger we would need cheaper counter spells and better red removal in the next sets.
4 Reflector Mage
4 Goblin Dark-Dwellers
1 Archangel Avacyn
1 Drowner of Hope
1 Linvala, The Preserver
Planeswalker
4 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
4 Anticipate
4 Epiphany at the Drownyard
4 Fiery Impulse
4 Spell Shrivel
Sorceries
4 Declaration in Stone
25 Lands (Working on mana base)
4 Arashin Cleric
1 Arachangel Avacyn
1 Drowner of Hope
2 Eldrazi Displacer
3 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Radiant Flames
9 Ramp spells because Knuckleblade protects itself AND IS SUPER MANA HUNGRY. Also 3-color needs fixing. I think the deck requires them and why not? Your beats come down T3 give me a better T2 play. I can further validate the dorks with triton tactics/retraction helix.