I reeeeally don’t like slash don’t understand prioritizing secondary wincons over the main one.
Like??? It’s a mafia game. I didn’t think the other wincons counted for anything aside from fun little bonuses. Not things to make your primary purpose.
@LnG - Umm I think the fact that he goes out of his way to say, "buddy #3" means he isn't keen on giving up who it is yet.
I just got hit with a bunch of stuff at work and also my wife is heading out of town for the weekend so I'm on solo dad duty and probably won't have time to be here the last couple hours up to deadline. I'll be checking the thread still throughout the day and can comment, but won't have time for much else.
Pretty sure we are just going to end up with a Kami lynch toDay even though I'm having some doubts about the ease of how it has built and lack of real stances on it. Like, Rhand saying, "I'm not seeing it, but will do it anyway," and Vaimes saying he isn't that into it, Chris saying he isn't pushing it but isn't opposed, and pretty much no one else has offered anything very concrete either. So not sure what else there really is to say anyway, but it's feeling a lot like another deadline settle lynch. Hopefully he flips scum otherwise we are going to need to have a really productive Night.
Yeah, it seems like Targaryen, Lannister, and probably Baratheon? have the similar/same alt wincons. One of my posts yesterday and earlier in the game I hinted at being on the throne being beneficial to me as well. I'm the Targaryen that unlocks an ability by being on the throne and I'd be happy to see what that ability is.
However, it looks like shadow didn't make a post in between 1519 and 1599, and the fact that 1519 came right after 1518 both suggest he didn't actually believe there was any chance of shadow doing a thing or that Rod was possibly faking it...hmmm
It looks like shadow's post has the deadline listed as May 30, 1700 MST, but the amount of hours he listed would line up with today, May 29th 1700 MST. So I'm guessing we go by the date and ignore the hours meaning we have ~30 hours now.
@Cantrip - If I remember it was a KJ post that he tried to do something and didn't get a response. Looking...OK yeah, it was KJ, but the very next post seems to make it super apparent that he was joking around and not actually trying to do anything. And then he actually even commented on it being a thing to see if Rod was faking. 1518, 1519, and 1599.
I guess that looks like a pretty solid unaligned pair in Cantrip/KJ.
Gah, this is why I usually do wall posts with multiple topics. Now I'm not supposed to post anymore until others post.
@Vaimes - A while back you mused on no one else campaigning for the throne. I mentioned Day 1 that I have a claim to it and would like votes as well, but haven't brought it back up due to my play time not likely garnering any support. Someone else mentioned also having a wincon as well as a locked ability behind the throne. I'd very much like to be on the throne, but I don't think it's going to happen until I earn some respect.
I also think we need to start being more public about our support for the throne so mafia can't hide behind their numbers and potentially control it. Don't want to bog down the end of Day with that right here, but tomorrow I think it needs to happen.
@Rhand - Yeah, per my last post yesterDay I'm sort of getting the same feeling. It's why I'm pushing people to give reasoning on Kami other than, "I'd be OK with his lynch." It's giving me feelings, but I do think he has been scummy and don't have any other strong pushes I think I can make right now. I sort of feel like we are being run around by some of the higher "towncore" posters actually being scum, but that's just gut and the fact that nothing has gone in favor of town so far.
@RE - Sure. That could be reasoning to not like me. I guess that's what happens when playing from behind the entire game and feeling the need to comment on all goings on. I'm trying to do it differently right now though and comment on things currently going on before having really read a good chunk of the recent pages. It's making me feel a little itchy...but also kinda freeing.
Aside: Sad days MTGS is going away. This has been my main home for mafia since the MTG mothership mafia forums closed like 6 or 7 years ago. While I haven't played much the last couple years, I always like that it was here to come back to or just idly spectate. Anyway, I'll leave other comments for the designated threads.
In general, people calling xy for sure town is giving my Playstation vibes. Playstation was the last shadow-hosted game and had a scum day kill that would have walked to end game for the same clear had he not been modkilled. Especially considering we have an extra Night death, why would you just assume he is town? I mean, I don't really want to lynch there regardless, because I think it's mostly self-resolving as we get more info or the scum is forced to NK him, but the lack of paranoia seems weird to me.
@Chris - You said we would know why you didn't want to reveal flavor/role when you did eventually claim for, "weird reasons"...bulletproof - sure, if town more valuable to remain unclaimed, but the flavor thing I don't really get. Also, not super keen on you outing our faction...
What do you think about the fact that they didn’t kill him? That plus the extra nk is bugging me. Like, you CC a vig by vigging them. Why kill Last or Highroller there over a very likely PR?
That's a pretty good thought. The extra NK being town doesn't make a ton of sense to NOT shoot xy. Unless they were afraid of him getting protection since everyone assumed he was town? It's definitely another thing that probably just points to the slot being town, but like I said, I'm not super concerned with that right now because I don't think there is danger of him being lynched toDay. I would probably fight if it started going that way.
My main thing was the mindset of Kami not having any doubt or seeming to try to figure it out.
I'm willing to reconsider if you can show me evidence of conditional daykills on MTGS.
OK, I lied. I went back and looked at Playstation and it was a Night mafia vig shot not a day shot.
There is still however the fact that this is a faction-based game with faction-based alternate win conditions AND there was an additional NK. That should be enough to question whether everything is as it seems.
@Hunger: I agree that XY could totally be lying about aspects of his ability, but it's not the ability that makes me think he's more likely town than scum. It's his target choice. I just don't see scum making their life difficult by shooting a lurker who hadn't come up when there were so many other "good" targets being discussed PLUS a few wagons to choose from. Again, other than the outside chance that scum rolecopped 1053 and decided his ability was just too dangerous to continue existing, but then I still feel like scum would have done more pre-justifying than "too busy, lol-shoot 1053". YMMV, but that's how I feel.
Also, I don't remember anyone else, but Tom, at minimum, has mused on possible ways that XY's ability could be different than claimed and thus scummier.
Sure, I can see why you would reason that. I think I agree for the most part that 1053 would have been a very odd scum choice. It could be that he had info on him that either rolewise or factionwise that ties into the kill going through. Could also be that he was banking on exactly your reasoning of 1053 being an unlikely scum target. Overall, I don't fault your reasoning for leaning town on it though, but me and Occam have never been friends.
Shin > xy is only if you explicitly trust Rod's claim of it being a straight up 50% shot. Like, if you think there is a chance xy is scum, clearly he could be fabricating or leaving out parts of the conditions with which his kills hit. It's only a dichotomy if you have information on the truthiness of the capabilities of the Day kill. i.e. you know he is town so don't doubt his claim, or you are scum buddies and know how it works.
So you're proposing a scenario where XY has a daykill with special conditions, that he's scum with Shin, and that he knew that Shin would not satisfy those conditions and that the shot was guaranteed to fail?
That hadn't even occurred to me, and I don't think it's a plausible scenario. We know there's a daykill, we know it doesn't always work; that's already sufficiently complex without having conditionals attached to the kill.
And we know it's not just a matter of "he just didn't really use the shot D1", because the mod responded - and notably didn't respond when someone else tried to do the same thing.
@Cantrip: For your other questions/comments:
I am not going to address what I'm looking for in Chris's response. You should know not to ask questions like that.
On the shot-response from Thousand: I can see how you could view that response differently. It's not a matter of what is in the response, it's a matter of what was missing, and expectations are certainly subjective.
Of the three, I am approximately XY ~= Shin > Chris. Both on scumminess and info-delivery. But I'd be fine with any of them. We're down to the last day again, so it comes down to who we can get votes on.
unvote vote XequalsY
The main point is I don't agree with your trichotomy post and it sort of feels like it's forced and not well reasoned out. I'm not saying I believe that shin and xy are most likely scum together, but your lack of paranoia or even apparent deeper speculation on what could be going on with xy's role is what really strikes me as odd. I mean, even just at a very basic level this is a faction-based game and a public daykill that could be based on faction isn't that far-fetched or complicated. It might not be right and maybe it just is straight up 50%, but the fact that you aren't questioning it all and trying to set up a tricohotomy based around it rubbed me the wrong way.
I am liking tom better for having the same opinion on the previous page about Wind's lack of paranoia around the alignment of the Daykill role as what I posted in my last post.
Man, this Kami wagon sort of feels like it is coming together way too easily, has anyone even given a reason for a vote on him? I know I said I would do more digging and try to provide more reasoning when I voted him before I went V/LA, so I'm partly to blame, but it's sort of giving me some bad vibes. Without doing a PBPA, my reasoning is essentially his posts have all felt...uneventful to me. I don't get the feeling he is trying to solve or make any actual pushes. His recent trichotomy post, while I disagree with it, is the only thing that has felt like he has any life. Otherwise everything I remember is just random questions that have no real direction. I also thought his Chris vote felt super opportunistic.
Also, there seem to be a lot of people mentioning me in their would lynch/scum piles. Anyone have any real reasoning or is it all just because I have been absent and LAL is easy? (besides RE's Targ wincon)
That's likely all I have time for today, but I should be around most of the day tomorrow.
In general, people calling xy for sure town is giving my Playstation vibes. Playstation was the last shadow-hosted game and had a scum day kill that would have walked to end game for the same clear had he not been modkilled. Especially considering we have an extra Night death, why would you just assume he is town? I mean, I don't really want to lynch there regardless, because I think it's mostly self-resolving as we get more info or the scum is forced to NK him, but the lack of paranoia seems weird to me.
@Chris - You said we would know why you didn't want to reveal flavor/role when you did eventually claim for, "weird reasons"...bulletproof - sure, if town more valuable to remain unclaimed, but the flavor thing I don't really get. Also, not super keen on you outing our faction...
@Chris: I asked you to explain how you went from scum!Shin to town!Shin. Also, given your claim: are you immune to killing abilities or NKs only?
@GJ: Because it was a purely negative reaction. It wasn't a "well, I don't like it, but we'll see what happens" post - it was a "you made a bad choice" post.
I dislike Chris's reaction to wagoning here, but I'm not sure it's an alignment-related dislike. I get annoyed when people state or imply "if you were good you wouldn't kill me here", so that may be coloring my perception. The claim itself is mechanically null - we have extra kills, which could be town or scum, so town or scum BP are both plausible. It's a relatively safe scum claim too, and we have no way of using the claim to confirm anything.
There's a sort-of-trichotomy with Chris, Shin and X=Y that I think should be resolved today.
scum!Shin and scum!X=y can't coexist.
scum!X=y with scum!Chris would be quite weird; I can conceive of players who would bus here (in scum!Chris's position), but I don't think it's a good play or a likely one. Endangering a killing role is just super risky for scum.
scum!Shin with scum!Chris is the one pairing that seems somewhat possible? That bus by Chris makes somewhat more sense IMO, and at the time it would have probably secured a "lock town" read for Chris if Shin flipped scum.
Except...
Shin > xy is only if you explicitly trust Rod's claim of it being a straight up 50% shot. Like, if you think there is a chance xy is scum, clearly he could be fabricating or leaving out parts of the conditions with which his kills hit. It's only a dichotomy if you have information on the truthiness of the capabilities of the Day kill. i.e. you know he is town so don't doubt his claim, or you are scum buddies and know how it works.
I do like that if you flip scum I think that Chris is most likely clear and one of shin/xy are likely scum though.
Am I being crazy here to doubt xy being fully truthful?
@LnG - Umm I think the fact that he goes out of his way to say, "buddy #3" means he isn't keen on giving up who it is yet.
I just got hit with a bunch of stuff at work and also my wife is heading out of town for the weekend so I'm on solo dad duty and probably won't have time to be here the last couple hours up to deadline. I'll be checking the thread still throughout the day and can comment, but won't have time for much else.
Pretty sure we are just going to end up with a Kami lynch toDay even though I'm having some doubts about the ease of how it has built and lack of real stances on it. Like, Rhand saying, "I'm not seeing it, but will do it anyway," and Vaimes saying he isn't that into it, Chris saying he isn't pushing it but isn't opposed, and pretty much no one else has offered anything very concrete either. So not sure what else there really is to say anyway, but it's feeling a lot like another deadline settle lynch. Hopefully he flips scum otherwise we are going to need to have a really productive Night.
@Cantrip - If I remember it was a KJ post that he tried to do something and didn't get a response. Looking...OK yeah, it was KJ, but the very next post seems to make it super apparent that he was joking around and not actually trying to do anything. And then he actually even commented on it being a thing to see if Rod was faking. 1518, 1519, and 1599.
I guess that looks like a pretty solid unaligned pair in Cantrip/KJ.
@Vaimes - A while back you mused on no one else campaigning for the throne. I mentioned Day 1 that I have a claim to it and would like votes as well, but haven't brought it back up due to my play time not likely garnering any support. Someone else mentioned also having a wincon as well as a locked ability behind the throne. I'd very much like to be on the throne, but I don't think it's going to happen until I earn some respect.
I also think we need to start being more public about our support for the throne so mafia can't hide behind their numbers and potentially control it. Don't want to bog down the end of Day with that right here, but tomorrow I think it needs to happen.
@Rhand - Yeah, per my last post yesterDay I'm sort of getting the same feeling. It's why I'm pushing people to give reasoning on Kami other than, "I'd be OK with his lynch." It's giving me feelings, but I do think he has been scummy and don't have any other strong pushes I think I can make right now. I sort of feel like we are being run around by some of the higher "towncore" posters actually being scum, but that's just gut and the fact that nothing has gone in favor of town so far.
@RE - Sure. That could be reasoning to not like me. I guess that's what happens when playing from behind the entire game and feeling the need to comment on all goings on. I'm trying to do it differently right now though and comment on things currently going on before having really read a good chunk of the recent pages. It's making me feel a little itchy...but also kinda freeing.
Aside: Sad days MTGS is going away. This has been my main home for mafia since the MTG mothership mafia forums closed like 6 or 7 years ago. While I haven't played much the last couple years, I always like that it was here to come back to or just idly spectate. Anyway, I'll leave other comments for the designated threads.
My main thing was the mindset of Kami not having any doubt or seeming to try to figure it out.
There is still however the fact that this is a faction-based game with faction-based alternate win conditions AND there was an additional NK. That should be enough to question whether everything is as it seems.
Man, this Kami wagon sort of feels like it is coming together way too easily, has anyone even given a reason for a vote on him? I know I said I would do more digging and try to provide more reasoning when I voted him before I went V/LA, so I'm partly to blame, but it's sort of giving me some bad vibes. Without doing a PBPA, my reasoning is essentially his posts have all felt...uneventful to me. I don't get the feeling he is trying to solve or make any actual pushes. His recent trichotomy post, while I disagree with it, is the only thing that has felt like he has any life. Otherwise everything I remember is just random questions that have no real direction. I also thought his Chris vote felt super opportunistic.
Also, there seem to be a lot of people mentioning me in their would lynch/scum piles. Anyone have any real reasoning or is it all just because I have been absent and LAL is easy? (besides RE's Targ wincon)
That's likely all I have time for today, but I should be around most of the day tomorrow.
@Chris - You said we would know why you didn't want to reveal flavor/role when you did eventually claim for, "weird reasons"...bulletproof - sure, if town more valuable to remain unclaimed, but the flavor thing I don't really get. Also, not super keen on you outing our faction...
Shin > xy is only if you explicitly trust Rod's claim of it being a straight up 50% shot. Like, if you think there is a chance xy is scum, clearly he could be fabricating or leaving out parts of the conditions with which his kills hit. It's only a dichotomy if you have information on the truthiness of the capabilities of the Day kill. i.e. you know he is town so don't doubt his claim, or you are scum buddies and know how it works.
I do like that if you flip scum I think that Chris is most likely clear and one of shin/xy are likely scum though.
Am I being crazy here to doubt xy being fully truthful?