Yeah, I have to disagree (respectfully) as well. Chandra, Torch of Defiance is an incredible card that moves through you through your deck turning dead draws into valuable damage. The previous post nailed it. It's all about deck composition. I'd like to add that you can't look at it as "card draw", because it isn't card draw. I'd argue that it's closer to a scry effect.
Thanks for the comment! And thanks for take the time to look though it.
I've played with Ashiok on and off over the last year and it's always been a fun card. I think it's strong in more goyfy meta's than shadowy metas so in my LGS, I've ended up moving away from the card. But when it shines, it really shines and has won many games for me. Sometimes, however, it's a dead card in your hand though, which is unfortunate. At 3 cmc, Ashiok suffers from "well I'd rather cast X this turn" syndrome.
I do have some PPTQ results to post. I have taken the deck to 2 tournaments over the last three weeks, and while I have not done as well as I would have hoped (3/3 in both tournaments) I was pleased with it's performance over all, notching wins against Grixis Shadow twice, Affinity, Elves, 8 whack, and Jeskai Control among others. But the deck's inconsistencies did prove to be an issue as I lost to R/W control deck, Eldrazi Tron, G/W Tron, Ponza, Merfolk, and a second match with Affinity.
As stated in my original post, one of the features that makes this deck so fun to play is that each game feels different. Sometimes you're playing a draw-go style tempo/control game, sometimes you'll shred their hand into oblivion with disruption. Occasionally, you're even on the beat down with fast monsters like TKS and Smasher. Unfortunately, there are times where things just don't coalesce the way you need them too. Sometimes things just go bad, and your Queller gets bolted after catching a blood moon on turn 3, by a hidden mana monkey's (Simian Spirit Guide) lightning bolt (that felt terrible btw). But I've learned some good lessons from these two tournaments.
1) I need to improve the consistency of the deck, an additional Serum Visions may help here. Perhaps a Cryptic Command could help here as well.
2) I need to address Tron decks somehow. Spell Queller is woefully bad against big mana Tron. I'll need to pack a few good anti-Tron cards in the board for that match up. Obviously, Ceremonious Rejection comes to mind, but if anyone else out there knows some good colorless hosers, ine esper colors, please let me know.
I'm happy with the way the deck is progressing. Beating Grixis Shadow both times I faced it felt good. And evening things up in the Affinity match up gave me hope too. Losing to Blood Moon and land destruction sucks, but sometimes there's just not much you can do about it. Going into the tournament, I believed my Tron match up was better than it was, I'll have to keep testing that one as we go forward.
As always, if you have any ideas or questions, please don't hesitate to speak up in the comments. Thanks to everyone who's come to check out the deck. I'll post any changes and continued tournament results as they come.
Rationale: In an attempt to shore up a more consistent and smoother game, I've gone to 4 serum visions. Preliminary results seem good. Although with cantrips like serum it's hard to tell. Dropping thoughtsieze altogether was not too hard. Collective Brutality is a great card right now, and it shores up some of our more stressful match ups like burn. Going down a Spell Queller is something I was hesitant to do at first, but after trying it out, it seems okay. I'm still seeing them when I want them generally.
Let's get into the sideboard which received a complete overhaul.
Here's the new board
Most entries here should be pretty obvious. 3 Ceremonious Rejections are helping to shore up the Tron match up. Detention Sphere is there to deal with Ensnaring Bridge and other problem cards that need to be removed.
So far, so good.
"No one spoke. There was no need. The threat of the Eldrazi presented a simple choice: lay down your arms and die for nothing, or hold them fast and die for something."
So I've been working on this deck for about a year, and I believe that I've gotten it to a pretty competitive place. I'm hoping to get some advice here about the list, and how I can improve it, particularly against Tron and Shadow decks which are prominent right now. I've tested fairly well against them, my ratio is around 50/50 for each match up which, given that this is more or less a brew, I'm really happy with. I'm hoping that some particularly skilled players could help me out.
So with that, I'll post the deck, the relevant information I believe is important to know, cool interactions and see what the community thinks. If you think this list has some potential, please share it with someone and see what they think. I'm planning on taking it to some pptqs this month, and my hope is to provide some detailed reporting regarding my matches.
Let's talk about what the deck's primary ideas are.
In case you didn't see it, the goal of the deck is to get underneath an opponent, using early disruption in the form Inquisition of Kozilek and Thoughtseize along with counters like Delay and Remand and removal in the form of Path to Exile. Creatures like Spell Queller and Wasteland Strangler come in to take control of the mid-game. Thoughtknot Seer is also a huge boon early to mid-game, but discussing the merits of TKS at this stage seems redundant. Mid to late game insurance policies comes in the form of Reality Smasher
The best way I've found to describe how it feels is that it plays like a hybrid of U/B Faeries and W/B processor control. For this reason, the deck often plays very differently from game to game. Sometimes, you'll find yourself stripping you opponent's hand to shreds. Other times, you'll play a hard control game that denies them the chance to do anything.
Exile It, then Process It for Value
Between 4 Paths, 3 Thoughtknot Seers, 3 Delays, 4 Quellers, a mainboarded Surgical Extraction, and [insert aven in a fruit tree joke here] getting cards into the exile bin is pretty regular. However, I'd be lying if there weren't times where I really need a card in the bin. (I've considered adding several card to help with this Rest in Peace and Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver are two that come to mind).
Turning all those exiled cards into a resource for yourself is what this deck is all about. Understanding how to use the processors takes some getting used to, sometimes it's not as simple as process a card, kill a creature or counter a spell. You'll need to be a bit nuanced in what you choose to process and when you do it. Often, it's more advantageous to wait on processing a Delayed card until the last second rather than just getting it off the board and windmill slamming that Strangler. Sometimes you'll need to target one of your own Thoughtknot Seers or Smashers with a Strangler's ability (after combat of course) in order to keep a spell from coming off of a queller or delay. Know your lines.
Let's talk about Spell Queller. In case you didn't know, this card is the real deal. Spell Queller is remarkably versatile. Let's quickly run down what it can do.
* He's Freakin' Julian Edelman (he catches everything):Supreme Verdict or Abrupt Decay doesn't matter, nearly every relevant card in modern is a possibility.
* Surprise combat: (Flashy chumpblock which is underrated btw). Don't think you're wasting your queller, you have Eldrazi Displacer you'll get your value (if it doesn't die), and it beats for 2 in the air which isn't really with a removal spell in many cases so often, it'll get some chip damage in.
* Serves as a hideaway card for your own spells: Let's say you're down to a few cards, and you draw something you really want to stick. But oh no, your opponent has counter mana up. No worries, in response to his counter, flicker you (ideally cleaned) spell queller, exile your own card. Then swing away into that Resto Angel, or flicker it again and get your spell at will. (this is particularly nasty if you draw a late Inquisition or Thoughtseize--wait till your opponent draws, then flicker the queller. Yah, you just snagged their draw.
Let's get into card choices and interactions
Most of the choices in the deck are pretty obvious, so I won't waste time explaining why cards like Inquisition and Path are good. I'll stick to card choices that seem odd at first glance, and I'll discuss some interactions that are not, at the surface level, obvious--at least not to a novice like me. Now some of this may seem cute, but it's super potent, really shows the potential of cards like Eldrazi Displacer. Let's look at one of the core interactions.
This little bit of synergy works to effectively lock up the opponent. Cleaning those quellers is a priority, so I've jammed 6 processors into the deck. Additionally, once your opponent's exile bin starts looking pretty full, you can use Ulamog's Nullifier in a similar manner.
Delay: When I realized that I would need help finding processor fodder I realized that I'd need to be creative, and with some help from a patron named jwelt(wherever you are dude, keep brewing), I found Delay. Delay is a great tempo piece that when combined with a processor functions like remand without the boon, yes, but without the late game drawback either. It's won many games for me, even when it only stalls a spell for 3 turns.
Ulamog's Nullifier: This is a card that gets boarded out at times, as at 4 cmc, it can be slow. Also, playing it's counter ability requires 2 cards in exile, but when this card hits, man it is a blow out. I'd like to point out that, with an Eldrazi Temple in play this card becomes much more playable. And with 3 serums, and 3 Remands, seeing a temple is fairly dependable. Off of Cavern, it's uncounterable, and at the very least, it's a sneaky chump blocker for that Mutavault that wants to sneak in some damage. *With regards to sideboarding, I'm of the opinion that having one or two easy outs make that process much, much easier for novice players. While this is meant for competitive play (ideally), it's nice to have something you don't need to rack your brain over on round 5.
Surgical Extraction: I know I'm not the only one who realizes that good cards generally have high price tags for a reason, Surgical Extraction is no exception to this rule. I won't tell you why it's great in your sideboard, but here, it's not a sideboard tool. It's a main-deckable utility card that is single most potent cards in the deck. You say you really dislike that Ad Nauseaum player at your LGS? Thoughseize into Surgical is a great way to get under his/her skin.
Scavenger GroundsI know it's really obvious why this card is in there, but I couldn't resist the opportunity to talk about it. I've often considered a main deck Relic of Progenitus but could never justify it. Now, I have one in the form of a land! Is it exactly the same? No, of course not, but it's in it's own way better. Helps with my colorless mana, doesn't add to my card count (as it is a land), and can't be countered. (although who counters relic?)
Interactions you need to know
* Queller/Displacer/Processor: this is the core concept of the deck. Understanding how to use your quellers is a must.
* Thoughtknot Seer and Eldrazi Displacer: Understanding how you can use this pairing to control your opponent's turn is pretty easy to comprehend, but vital for you to understand how and when to use it.
* Delay and any processor: Cards that are suspended are exiled, as such you can process them and use that to your advantage (*Note, this also works really well on cards your opponent suspends, for example Ancestral Visions or [/card]Lotus Bloom[/card].
Let's talk about match ups
I'm not particularly good at analyzing the ins and outs of every deck that I don't play. So I can't tell you specific numbers or percentages. I'd like to one day get there, but for now, I'm just looking for advice so I'm going to cover things broadly for the most part and address specific decks I know people are probably wondering about in a more specific manner.
So, very broadly, I believe the deck has a pretty fair match up against many of the decks out there, including Shadow decks (Tron decks are a bit more tricky, but still very winnable). Against spell based combo decks this shines pretty brightly, Ad Naus, Scapeshift, Storm, this can really do some work. Aggro-Combo (infect/suicide bloo) also, not terrible (Strangler's devoid is pretty sweet). Traditional Aggro decks are fine too. Midrange decks are generally not too hard to get under (Shadow decks being the exception) and the suite of counters and disruption means that traditional abzan decks aren't too difficult. Control decks, also not to bad as I feel that I can play the draw go game as well as any of them.
So do I have difficulty with?
My record against traditional Jund is abysmal. That deck just ran too many powerful removal cards to keep up with. As GDS has taken on much of the same roll with nearly as many removal options, that deck can be difficult as well (although not unwinnable). Burn, can be an issue, however, if I can survive my opponent's opening 7, I have a great shot at stabilizing and removing his threats via processed cards and Stranglers. Tron, that deck's high mana costs mean that game 1 my quellers do very little, however, games 2 and 3 become much better with the board. Any advice on these would be greatly appreciated. Thankfully, Jund is more or less in hiding, and Lightning Bolt is becoming less and less prominent (for now), and my board is fairly well put together given the current meta. Finally, as to be expected, dedicated Blood Moon decks.
So what causes these difficulties. Well, in some cases it's pretty clear. I run very few basics, so B-Moon hurts. Removal heavy decks can eat my quellers before I have time to clean them. And sometimes, my deck just feels like it can't get over the hump. Displacer/Stranger are only 3 power, Quellers and Nullifiers only 2. Smasher and TKS are amazing, but adding more smashers seems like it would dilute things, and adding another TKS has thrown off the curve on my delicate mana balance in the past. If you have ideas, please post them in the comments!
Plea for Guidence
I know that all seems like a lot to read, and it was a lot to type (but I'd be lying if I said I didn't enjoy it). I didn't set out to write a primer for a deck no one knows, but I realize that what I've done is similar. I'm really just looking to get help and opinions on the deck and to see where people stand on it. I hope I've made the read somewhat pleasant.
Please take the time to vote at the top of the page. If you believe the deck has potential and have ideas regarding how to make the deck stronger, please help out and post your thoughts here. Help is always appreciated.
If you'd like to see it in action, I'm on cockatrice (user name: Ely), you may have run into me.
A long time ago, I read an article on Frank Lapore's Mono-White Prison deck, and it inspired me to get into the modern format. I dove in with mono-white, quickly moved to G/W, then to abzan, where I stuck for some time. Taking advantage of Theros block's Eidolon of Blossoms and Doomwake Giant was fun, but the deck was never quite where I wanted it to be. Then Starfield of Nyx was printed and I fell in love with the card. But at 5 cmc, I realized that I needed to bring down my curve, or increase my effective ramp, and I could just never do everything I wanted to do.
That is until I decided to gamble on Bant. Blue was always on my radar, Monastery Siege seemed like a natural fit for what I wanted to do with Starfield of Nyx (something of a controversial card in the archetype), Serum Visions was something I never quite bought into for the deck, I don't quite know why, other than to say that Eidolon seemed to be drawing me enough cards as it was.
Finally, after a particularly disappointing showing at a local FNM I decided to go back to the drawing board an force Bant. I wanted to speed the deck up, and increase the hardship that it could inflect on opponents decks. Spreading Seas was a card that I had experience with in Merfolk, and I knew it could devistate greedy decks, as well as help shore up Enchantment Prison's worst match up (tron). Finally, after tuning for a while, I came up with this.
The deck is fun to play, has some wacky interactions that are fun to navigate, and although you're laying locks down upon you're opponent, I've been told that it never seems as though it's impossible to beat (until it is). So, unlike Lantern Control, or Sun and Moon decks, your opponent does actually continue a match. This is a great thing for FNM and local play, but if you're looking for Hyper-competitive action at the professional level, I don't know if this is the deck for you. That being said, it can hold it's own against much of the field. It's locks are potent and resilient. Let's get into some of what the deck does.
"A Delicate veil of glamers can prove as sturdy as iron"
So there's no mystery that the name-sake card of the deck is Ghostly Prison The card is a staple of enchantment prison decks across the board, and even has made its way into the occasional sideboard. But with Abrupt Decay and Maelstrom Pulse both seeing far play in the current modern environment, I'd argue that now is the time for our stars to shine.
Even if you're able to see a Ghostly Prison in you're opening 7 every game, you're still not going to beat a string of beefed up Tarmogoyfs and Death's Shadows. The 3 cmc is just too slow to win the game on its own. You'll need to both speed up your game, and layer some additional glamer's down to keep the enemy at bay long enough to lock him out completely. Let's look at some of our enchantments.
It begins (ideally on turn zero) with Leyline of Sanctity. As much as I hate to see it, I've had players scoop to this card before they even start their turn. Some decks just can't touch it. It's particularly brutal against Burn, Grixis, and Jund. But it also hits decks you wouldn't expect it to: Gifts Ungiven for example. Or which use Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle as their primary wincon. Storm, 8Rack, Mill, etc. And it has the added bonus of contributing mightily to our devotion count which will become relevant when we discuss our boy Heliod, God of the Sun
Spreading Seas To my fellow Fish players, thank you for bringing this card into focus. While it isn't quite as good in this deck as it is in Merfolk, I think if the card has a second home anywhere, it's here. On the play, a turn 2 Spreading Seas can hamstring an opponent quite effectively. Particularly against land lean decks like burn and Merfolk. Obviously it's a great tool against Affinity's/infect's Inkmoth Nexus, and obviously, it's one of our most potent tools against Tron and Eldrazi decks.
Now to the Pariah of the group (see what I did there?). Pariah is an unsung hero. At worst, its a fog spell that also functions as a removal spell. At best, it's a total lock piece that cannot be surmounted. Attach Pariah to a indestructible God and short of a Path to Exile you're in good shape. Slap it on an opponent's creature with a Starfield of Nyx in play and you've got a nice soft lock that turn by turn, can remove threats, or stop attacks in their tracks. Pariah seems like a odd card, and it is, but it never falls flat.
"No matter who their fickle hearts worship, all mortals belong to one god in the end."
Heliod provides more than just flavor. He's a potent wincon that is very difficult to remove. He spits cleric tokens which can act as additional chump blockers, or attackers. He can tackle most any creature in combat. And as stated above, when enchanted with Pariah he becomes a lock piece that harder to break than a Masterlock. Heliod's indestructibility will come in hand, particularly after one of your sweepers like Wrath of God clear the path for him.
It is important to understand how Heliod interacts with Starfield of Nyx. There are some nuanced time stamp issues that you need to understand in order to take full advantage of how the two interact. As an alternative, you can play Oketra the True Who is nearly identical, however, cannot be brought back with Starfield if in the graveyard, which will be relevant if you lean heavy on Vessel of Nascency, as I do. She is also a good option as a 1 of, for a bit of added security just in case you get Surgically Extracted.
Finally, Heliod's best friend Dragonlord Ojutai form a nice pairing that allows the feathered dragon to swing in with fear of dropping his hexproof protection. All the while digging up a new sparkly tool for you to cast in main phase 2. While Ojutai is a cute card to pair with Heliod, he his by no means necessary, and may be an easy card to cut either for a better sideboard option, or from the deck completely.
"Nyx may belong to the gods, but the skies of Theros are ours."
Starfield is one of our most potent bombs as well as one of our greatest enablers. Starfield's five enchantment clause can be taken advantage of with tools like Vessel of Nascency. Allowing us to power enchantments down at will, to protect them from a removal spell as well as sort through our deck for the perfect card for to address the board. Starfield's non-aura clause means that your Utopia Sprawls and Spreading Seas still help contribute to your enchantment count, but are safe themselves from bolts of lightning or terminates. In the late game, after a sweeper, Starfield can come down to deliver the alpha strike needed to end an opponent. In the end, the card just takes the game over in a matter of turns, creating a constant engine of enchantments that never stay gone.
Starfield should never be played in multiples, outside of very unique circumstances though. So be careful, and don't get greedy.
Match ups
I have been working on a running tally of matches against various decks online (cockatrice), but have not finalized the numbers yet; however, as soon as I do, I will start posting them here. But I feel confident enough to say that I can speak to a few particular match ups and provide some idea as to how we tend to do.
Let's get the bad match ups out of the way. They will spit in your cereal, and ruin your day.
Tron: We just don't interact with tron enough to stop it, even with the spreading seas, the Stony Silences, and Pithing Needles in the board. It just takes 1 Ugin to wipe us out, and that's the game. I hope to dodge it every week.
Ad Nauseam: Ad Nauseam's Lightning Storm isn't too much of a problem, it's their little mad scientist in the lab that ends our games with modern's premier combo deck. Nevermore is a mus for this match up, and what you name is dependent entirely on whether or not you can hate out Lightning Storm effectively. If you have protection from the storm, name Laboratory Maniac first, then the namesake Ad Nauseam. This match up is not unwinnable, but just know that you're probably going to give up game 1.
Good match ups:
Merfolk
Burn
Zoo
Affinity
B/W Tokens
Basically, any deck that uses creature to deal critical masses of damage, particularly go wide strategies.
Slapping a Ghostly Prison down turn 2 really puts the breaks on these decks. Follow it up with a few more layers of protection and a sweeper spell and you've got this match ups in the bag. Watch out for elves though, just because it costs 8 to attack, doesn't mean that elves can't pay it. And Affinity will still get through to you with a suited up Ornithopter if you're not careful. Cranial Plating is still a monster card.
Fair Match ups
Jund (all varieties)
Bant Eldrazi
Abzan company combo
These decks can get there sometimes no matter what we do; however, our lock pieces and hate out of the board make these match ups more than fair. I like my chances in just about any of these match ups, but you just can't sleep on them.
Thanks, if people show some interest in this deck, I'll keep updating the thread. Let me know what you think!
Throne of the God-Pharaoh is a cool card, I think it's home is in B/G elves, imagine chording into Shaman of the Pack hitting an opponent for 4-7, then hitting them again for the same amount with the throne.
Ultimately, it would be a nice side board card for match ups like Lantern or R/W prison.
I have to echo what Dennis said above regarding Cast Out, as an enchantments player I have to admit that the flash and cycling aspect of the card is super tempting, but at 4 Mana it just isn't there when you need it to be (which is turn two or three). Sure, in a Green/White build you can get to four mana fairly easily but still, I'm just not sure. That being said, in a Starfield of Nyx build it might really be something, cycle it to draw, RTB it during your next upkeep to get rid of a problem permanent.
Maybe with the decline of lightning bolts, herald of the pantheon could possibly be a thing, but in my experience any non-enchantment creature tends to eat removal pretty quickly due to such a light creature count.
Prevailer of Daunting Distances
1W. Enchantment Creature 1/2
Creatures your opponents control cannot attack you or a planeswalker you control unless they pay 1.
That looks completely bonkers and overpowered to me.
I wouldn't staple that sort of effect on a creature less than 4 cmc, it hates on aggro way too hard. There is a reason enchantment and artifact versions of the effect that aren't also creatures start at around 3 cmc, like Ghostly Prison, and merely lowering the cost per creature isn't enough to justify lower cmcs, it's that there is a mana cost attached at all.
I respectfully disagree, while I believe that you are correct in calling it a powerful hate effect for aggro, a 2/1 enchantment creature that dies to just about everything should be no problem to remove (barring any sort of a anthem effect). This would die to Fatal Push, Lightning Bolt, Electolyze, abupt decay, Path to Exile etc. Had the card been solely an enchantment then I would be more accepting of your argument, which you are very much entitled to.
I would counter by saying that raising the cost to 4 cmc, puts a proper prison card out of reach, because in the Modern format, the damage is already done by turn four. Consider that neither Windborn Muse nor Archangel of Tithes are effective playables in the format.
Lets also consider which decks would play such a card. Few tiered decks outside of lantern, and RW Prison would employ such a card certainly not in the main board. Although I could see it used in UW strategies as well. Arguably, lantern needs no help, but this would not boost any current deck into tier zero territory.
I understand Wizards fear of "unfun" hate cards, particularly those which hate against creatures; however, even in standard such a creature could be easily removed. And, I would argue that proper hate cards such as this are beneficial for all formats, including standard. I would be open to changing the casting cost to double white though.
Ultimately, while the card would certainly be a powerful and mitigating effect for aggro, such a creature would not break any current deck, it would be easily removed, and would likely not see much play outside of sideboards.
Of course, this is all just one old man's opinion.
Cheers
Prevailer of Daunting Distances
1W. Enchantment Creature 1/2
Creatures your opponents control cannot attack you or a planeswalker you control unless they pay 1.
Parasite mechanic (black/green mechanic)
Carnivorous Scarab cmc: (1B) p/t (*/*)
Creature Parasite
Insect
Parasitic (1)---
Carnivorous Scarab enters the battlefield attached to target creature as a parasite. During your upkeep, put a -1/-1 count on the host creature.
When host creature leaves play, Carnivorous Scarab becomes a creature with a power band toughness equal to the number of -1/-1 counters on the host creature when it left play.
Obviously, it's all on how you build them. Commanders like Zur can be great, because while they can be super competitive, they can also be very casual and theme based. And since he can tutor up loads of enchantments kids can really have fun getting their favorite cards.
Other commanders like Karador are good because the help kids learn to not freak out over losing their stuff in the graveyard. Which is an important lesson.
Then you have commanders like Rafiq, who is the consumant good guy, who can be tailored to suit a more Timmy type player.
But for me, if I'm picking a deck for a new player to begin with, I'd have to go with everyone's first EDH deck... Slivers.
Yes, they are a bit generic (although they don't have to be), and a few of them are pretty expensive. But the are fun to play with as a new player, they are easy, and they can win games even without their busted cards. what's more is that Wizards has provided us with great dual lands that are cheap and easy to pick up. You really don't need to look much beyond the guild gates, Khans wedge lands, or the litany of other CTP lands that are languishing about in stores everywhere.
Finding the right balance with the mana base is important, although it's not so bad. We're sorta running a 3 and a half color base with the colorless. Unfortunately this requires us to shell out some $$ for filterlands. I'm using a bit of everything to fill the gap, but there are definitely options. I haven't put my list up in a while so here it is.
Yeah, I'm running 61 in the main, mostly because I want to run Ashiok (who is amazing btw). I've played with manlands a bit as well, both creeping tar pit and celestial colonnade, but I found that they often ate into my ability to play the draw-go game. However, I've also experienced games where things ground to a halt, and a creeping tar pit would have helped out. I think our mana base can support 1 but no more. If you're smart with your mana base, the colorless isn't really too bad, cavern of souls, pain lands, filter lands, Eldrazi temples, they make colorless mana pretty easy to come by.
Right now, this is a remarkably interactive deck, by far the most interactive I've ever played and it's among the most enjoyable. But the deck does let you down sometimes, this happens mostly when you're on the draw and can't interact with what your opponents are doing.
Hey there, glad to see the thread did no go fully dormant. I like much of your list, and I think that you are right regarding the value of Ancestral Visions, and if you want the free cast off of an expertise, then Sram's is the way to go. Yahenni's just kills off your quellers, which are still super valuable even after they've been cleaned.
If you're having good results with Fatal Push keep with it. I don't like the card personally for our deck, because I want to exile critters. For me, I like to tear apart their hand with Inquisition or Thoughtseize.
How have things been going for you without a bomb card like Reality Smasher or Drowner? I didn't see see any Thoughtknot Seers either, which seems interesting. Are the tokens from Sram's what gets you over the hump?
My deck has changed a bit since my last post as well and I am now running 2 Vendillion Cliques for hand disruption and beats. And I think I have a pretty optimal list for my meta. But more than Tron worries, I fear Jund. I just don't know how we hope to keep up with the card for card trade when their cards are significantly more potent than even TKS or Drowner. They pack too much value in their 60 to out tempo, and the removal suite is so good, I'm just at a loss against that deck.
With regards to the up tick of blood moon, yes it is a concern. but for me, I've packed in 3 Delay, 3 remand, 4 quellers, 2 nullifiers, 3 Inquisitions, 3 Thoughtknots, and 2 Vendillion Cliques. If I can't keep a B Moon off of the board I just accept that I'm going to eat that game.
I think we are a strange draw-go tempo deck, much akin to faeries and u/w spirits. If you're going to be playing on your turn you need to be dropping major bombs like TKS, Smasher, or Drowner. Or you need to be riding you processors (and Eldrazi Displacer) to value town.
Good luck my spaghetti monster friend, drop us a line and let us know what you are doing.
I dont get why wotc cant just do a special set that's only for modern like the way commander sets add cards to legacy and vinatages pool, that way its not broken to add cards like counter spell or Mother into modern without them having to go into standard.
Well, they already do a set for modern, just that so far they've only put reprints that were already in the format in it. I see no reason why they couldn't bring in cards from pre-8th edition that may be needed in the format and just declare that everything in a Modern Masters set is modern-legal. Similar to how they stopped making the core set reprints-only (from M10 I think?) and started mixing entirely new cards in in order to help standard.
You, sir, are on to something. Can we get this guy in a room with someone from Wizards? He has a great idea.
Jokes aside this is a good way to go, IMO. That said the argument against this is that it really may create a slippery slope type of situation where older "reprints" create new problems for a format where it would be tempting to just dig deeper for another onld card to answer this new problem, rather than creating a new card to put through standard to affect modern. At some point this can really dilute the format. At least, I think that's how the argument goes. Personally, I think that Wizards would just have to keep a tight grip on possible additions in this way and we'd be fine. But I play enchantress in modern, and am clearly not too bright. So take what I say with a grain of salt.
I've played with Ashiok on and off over the last year and it's always been a fun card. I think it's strong in more goyfy meta's than shadowy metas so in my LGS, I've ended up moving away from the card. But when it shines, it really shines and has won many games for me. Sometimes, however, it's a dead card in your hand though, which is unfortunate. At 3 cmc, Ashiok suffers from "well I'd rather cast X this turn" syndrome.
I do have some PPTQ results to post. I have taken the deck to 2 tournaments over the last three weeks, and while I have not done as well as I would have hoped (3/3 in both tournaments) I was pleased with it's performance over all, notching wins against Grixis Shadow twice, Affinity, Elves, 8 whack, and Jeskai Control among others. But the deck's inconsistencies did prove to be an issue as I lost to R/W control deck, Eldrazi Tron, G/W Tron, Ponza, Merfolk, and a second match with Affinity.
As stated in my original post, one of the features that makes this deck so fun to play is that each game feels different. Sometimes you're playing a draw-go style tempo/control game, sometimes you'll shred their hand into oblivion with disruption. Occasionally, you're even on the beat down with fast monsters like TKS and Smasher. Unfortunately, there are times where things just don't coalesce the way you need them too. Sometimes things just go bad, and your Queller gets bolted after catching a blood moon on turn 3, by a hidden mana monkey's (Simian Spirit Guide) lightning bolt (that felt terrible btw). But I've learned some good lessons from these two tournaments.
1) I need to improve the consistency of the deck, an additional Serum Visions may help here. Perhaps a Cryptic Command could help here as well.
2) I need to address Tron decks somehow. Spell Queller is woefully bad against big mana Tron. I'll need to pack a few good anti-Tron cards in the board for that match up. Obviously, Ceremonious Rejection comes to mind, but if anyone else out there knows some good colorless hosers, ine esper colors, please let me know.
I'm happy with the way the deck is progressing. Beating Grixis Shadow both times I faced it felt good. And evening things up in the Affinity match up gave me hope too. Losing to Blood Moon and land destruction sucks, but sometimes there's just not much you can do about it. Going into the tournament, I believed my Tron match up was better than it was, I'll have to keep testing that one as we go forward.
As always, if you have any ideas or questions, please don't hesitate to speak up in the comments. Thanks to everyone who's come to check out the deck. I'll post any changes and continued tournament results as they come.
Dan
****Deck update 8/7/17
Main Deck
Out:
Thoughtseize
Spell Queller x1
In:
Serum Visions Total:4
Collective Brutality Total: 2
Rationale: In an attempt to shore up a more consistent and smoother game, I've gone to 4 serum visions. Preliminary results seem good. Although with cantrips like serum it's hard to tell. Dropping thoughtsieze altogether was not too hard. Collective Brutality is a great card right now, and it shores up some of our more stressful match ups like burn. Going down a Spell Queller is something I was hesitant to do at first, but after trying it out, it seems okay. I'm still seeing them when I want them generally.
Let's get into the sideboard which received a complete overhaul.
Here's the new board
Artifact
1 Pithing Needle
Enchantment
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
1 Detention Sphere
2 Condemn
3 Ceremonious Rejection
Sorcery
2 Lingering Souls
2 Timely Reinforcements
Most entries here should be pretty obvious. 3 Ceremonious Rejections are helping to shore up the Tron match up. Detention Sphere is there to deal with Ensnaring Bridge and other problem cards that need to be removed.
So far, so good.
Here's a new deck I'm cooking up. If you like it, or have suggestions, please comment below.
Creatures 6
4 Zur the Enchanter
2 Lost Auramancers
Enchantment 12
1 Solemnity
1 Phyrexian Unlife
2 Detention Sphere
1 Overwhelming Splendor
1 Greater Auramancy
3 Heartless Summoning
1 Starfield of Nyx
1 Night of Souls' Betrayal
1 Steel of the Godhead
Instant 11
2 Path to Exile
2 Negate
1 Dispel
3 Fatal Push
3 Thought Scour
Land 23
3 Creeping Tar Pit
2 Darkslick Shores
1 Eiganjo Castle
3 Flooded Strand
1 Godless Shrine
1 Hallowed Fountain
2 Island
3 Marsh Flats
2 Plains
4 Polluted Delta
1 Watery Grave
2 Liliana, the Last Hope
Sorcery 7
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Collective Brutality
Artifact
3 Engineered Explosives
Enchantment
3 Stony Silence
3 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Nevermore
Sorcery
3 Oketra's Last Mercy
"No one spoke. There was no need. The threat of the Eldrazi presented a simple choice: lay down your arms and die for nothing, or hold them fast and die for something."
So I've been working on this deck for about a year, and I believe that I've gotten it to a pretty competitive place. I'm hoping to get some advice here about the list, and how I can improve it, particularly against Tron and Shadow decks which are prominent right now. I've tested fairly well against them, my ratio is around 50/50 for each match up which, given that this is more or less a brew, I'm really happy with. I'm hoping that some particularly skilled players could help me out.
So with that, I'll post the deck, the relevant information I believe is important to know, cool interactions and see what the community thinks. If you think this list has some potential, please share it with someone and see what they think. I'm planning on taking it to some pptqs this month, and my hope is to provide some detailed reporting regarding my matches.
So here we go...
Creature (16)
3 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Wasteland Strangler
3 Eldrazi Displacer
3 Spell Queller
1 Ulamog's Nullifier
2 Reality Smasher
Instant (16)
4 Path to Exile
4 Remand
3 Delay
1 Surgical Extraction
4 Opt
Land (23)
3 Polluted Delta
1 Watery Grave
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Adarkar Wastes
3 Eldrazi Temple
3 Flooded Strand
1 Plains
1 Swamp
2 Island
2 Cavern of Souls
1 Mystic Gate
1 Sunken Ruins
1 Godless Shrine
1 Scavenger Grounds
1 Underground River
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Collective Brutality
1 Pithing Needle
2 Timely Reinforcements
1 Detention Sphere
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
3 Ceremonious Rejection
2 Lingering Souls
In case you didn't see it, the goal of the deck is to get underneath an opponent, using early disruption in the form Inquisition of Kozilek and Thoughtseize along with counters like Delay and Remand and removal in the form of Path to Exile. Creatures like Spell Queller and Wasteland Strangler come in to take control of the mid-game. Thoughtknot Seer is also a huge boon early to mid-game, but discussing the merits of TKS at this stage seems redundant. Mid to late game insurance policies comes in the form of Reality Smasher
The best way I've found to describe how it feels is that it plays like a hybrid of U/B Faeries and W/B processor control. For this reason, the deck often plays very differently from game to game. Sometimes, you'll find yourself stripping you opponent's hand to shreds. Other times, you'll play a hard control game that denies them the chance to do anything.
Exile It, then Process It for Value
Between 4 Paths, 3 Thoughtknot Seers, 3 Delays, 4 Quellers, a mainboarded Surgical Extraction, and [insert aven in a fruit tree joke here] getting cards into the exile bin is pretty regular. However, I'd be lying if there weren't times where I really need a card in the bin. (I've considered adding several card to help with this Rest in Peace and Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver are two that come to mind).
Turning all those exiled cards into a resource for yourself is what this deck is all about. Understanding how to use the processors takes some getting used to, sometimes it's not as simple as process a card, kill a creature or counter a spell. You'll need to be a bit nuanced in what you choose to process and when you do it. Often, it's more advantageous to wait on processing a Delayed card until the last second rather than just getting it off the board and windmill slamming that Strangler. Sometimes you'll need to target one of your own Thoughtknot Seers or Smashers with a Strangler's ability (after combat of course) in order to keep a spell from coming off of a queller or delay. Know your lines.
Let's talk about Spell Queller. In case you didn't know, this card is the real deal. Spell Queller is remarkably versatile. Let's quickly run down what it can do.
* He's Freakin' Julian Edelman (he catches everything):Supreme Verdict or Abrupt Decay doesn't matter, nearly every relevant card in modern is a possibility.
* Surprise combat: (Flashy chumpblock which is underrated btw). Don't think you're wasting your queller, you have Eldrazi Displacer you'll get your value (if it doesn't die), and it beats for 2 in the air which isn't really with a removal spell in many cases so often, it'll get some chip damage in.
* Serves as a hideaway card for your own spells: Let's say you're down to a few cards, and you draw something you really want to stick. But oh no, your opponent has counter mana up. No worries, in response to his counter, flicker you (ideally cleaned) spell queller, exile your own card. Then swing away into that Resto Angel, or flicker it again and get your spell at will. (this is particularly nasty if you draw a late Inquisition or Thoughtseize--wait till your opponent draws, then flicker the queller. Yah, you just snagged their draw.
Most of the choices in the deck are pretty obvious, so I won't waste time explaining why cards like Inquisition and Path are good. I'll stick to card choices that seem odd at first glance, and I'll discuss some interactions that are not, at the surface level, obvious--at least not to a novice like me. Now some of this may seem cute, but it's super potent, really shows the potential of cards like Eldrazi Displacer. Let's look at one of the core interactions.
This little bit of synergy works to effectively lock up the opponent. Cleaning those quellers is a priority, so I've jammed 6 processors into the deck. Additionally, once your opponent's exile bin starts looking pretty full, you can use Ulamog's Nullifier in a similar manner.
Delay: When I realized that I would need help finding processor fodder I realized that I'd need to be creative, and with some help from a patron named jwelt(wherever you are dude, keep brewing), I found Delay. Delay is a great tempo piece that when combined with a processor functions like remand without the boon, yes, but without the late game drawback either. It's won many games for me, even when it only stalls a spell for 3 turns.
Ulamog's Nullifier: This is a card that gets boarded out at times, as at 4 cmc, it can be slow. Also, playing it's counter ability requires 2 cards in exile, but when this card hits, man it is a blow out. I'd like to point out that, with an Eldrazi Temple in play this card becomes much more playable. And with 3 serums, and 3 Remands, seeing a temple is fairly dependable. Off of Cavern, it's uncounterable, and at the very least, it's a sneaky chump blocker for that Mutavault that wants to sneak in some damage.
*With regards to sideboarding, I'm of the opinion that having one or two easy outs make that process much, much easier for novice players. While this is meant for competitive play (ideally), it's nice to have something you don't need to rack your brain over on round 5.
Surgical Extraction: I know I'm not the only one who realizes that good cards generally have high price tags for a reason, Surgical Extraction is no exception to this rule. I won't tell you why it's great in your sideboard, but here, it's not a sideboard tool. It's a main-deckable utility card that is single most potent cards in the deck. You say you really dislike that Ad Nauseaum player at your LGS? Thoughseize into Surgical is a great way to get under his/her skin.
Scavenger GroundsI know it's really obvious why this card is in there, but I couldn't resist the opportunity to talk about it. I've often considered a main deck Relic of Progenitus but could never justify it. Now, I have one in the form of a land! Is it exactly the same? No, of course not, but it's in it's own way better. Helps with my colorless mana, doesn't add to my card count (as it is a land), and can't be countered. (although who counters relic?)
Interactions you need to know
* Queller/Displacer/Processor: this is the core concept of the deck. Understanding how to use your quellers is a must.
* Thoughtknot Seer and Eldrazi Displacer: Understanding how you can use this pairing to control your opponent's turn is pretty easy to comprehend, but vital for you to understand how and when to use it.
* Delay and any processor: Cards that are suspended are exiled, as such you can process them and use that to your advantage (*Note, this also works really well on cards your opponent suspends, for example Ancestral Visions or [/card]Lotus Bloom[/card].
Let's talk about match ups
I'm not particularly good at analyzing the ins and outs of every deck that I don't play. So I can't tell you specific numbers or percentages. I'd like to one day get there, but for now, I'm just looking for advice so I'm going to cover things broadly for the most part and address specific decks I know people are probably wondering about in a more specific manner.
So, very broadly, I believe the deck has a pretty fair match up against many of the decks out there, including Shadow decks (Tron decks are a bit more tricky, but still very winnable). Against spell based combo decks this shines pretty brightly, Ad Naus, Scapeshift, Storm, this can really do some work. Aggro-Combo (infect/suicide bloo) also, not terrible (Strangler's devoid is pretty sweet). Traditional Aggro decks are fine too. Midrange decks are generally not too hard to get under (Shadow decks being the exception) and the suite of counters and disruption means that traditional abzan decks aren't too difficult. Control decks, also not to bad as I feel that I can play the draw go game as well as any of them.
So do I have difficulty with?
My record against traditional Jund is abysmal. That deck just ran too many powerful removal cards to keep up with. As GDS has taken on much of the same roll with nearly as many removal options, that deck can be difficult as well (although not unwinnable). Burn, can be an issue, however, if I can survive my opponent's opening 7, I have a great shot at stabilizing and removing his threats via processed cards and Stranglers. Tron, that deck's high mana costs mean that game 1 my quellers do very little, however, games 2 and 3 become much better with the board. Any advice on these would be greatly appreciated. Thankfully, Jund is more or less in hiding, and Lightning Bolt is becoming less and less prominent (for now), and my board is fairly well put together given the current meta. Finally, as to be expected, dedicated Blood Moon decks.
So what causes these difficulties. Well, in some cases it's pretty clear. I run very few basics, so B-Moon hurts. Removal heavy decks can eat my quellers before I have time to clean them. And sometimes, my deck just feels like it can't get over the hump. Displacer/Stranger are only 3 power, Quellers and Nullifiers only 2. Smasher and TKS are amazing, but adding more smashers seems like it would dilute things, and adding another TKS has thrown off the curve on my delicate mana balance in the past. If you have ideas, please post them in the comments!
These are some test videos (I will upload more as I get to know my software, but for now enjoy my dulcet tones.)
https://youtu.be/GC4HUX4moTk Vs. Storm Game 1
https://youtu.be/xhA1hWpb_a8 Vs. Blue Affinity
Plea for Guidence
I know that all seems like a lot to read, and it was a lot to type (but I'd be lying if I said I didn't enjoy it). I didn't set out to write a primer for a deck no one knows, but I realize that what I've done is similar. I'm really just looking to get help and opinions on the deck and to see where people stand on it. I hope I've made the read somewhat pleasant.
Please take the time to vote at the top of the page. If you believe the deck has potential and have ideas regarding how to make the deck stronger, please help out and post your thoughts here. Help is always appreciated.
If you'd like to see it in action, I'm on cockatrice (user name: Ely), you may have run into me.
Thank you for reading.
Dan
A long time ago, I read an article on Frank Lapore's Mono-White Prison deck, and it inspired me to get into the modern format. I dove in with mono-white, quickly moved to G/W, then to abzan, where I stuck for some time. Taking advantage of Theros block's Eidolon of Blossoms and Doomwake Giant was fun, but the deck was never quite where I wanted it to be. Then Starfield of Nyx was printed and I fell in love with the card. But at 5 cmc, I realized that I needed to bring down my curve, or increase my effective ramp, and I could just never do everything I wanted to do.
That is until I decided to gamble on Bant. Blue was always on my radar, Monastery Siege seemed like a natural fit for what I wanted to do with Starfield of Nyx (something of a controversial card in the archetype), Serum Visions was something I never quite bought into for the deck, I don't quite know why, other than to say that Eidolon seemed to be drawing me enough cards as it was.
Finally, after a particularly disappointing showing at a local FNM I decided to go back to the drawing board an force Bant. I wanted to speed the deck up, and increase the hardship that it could inflect on opponents decks. Spreading Seas was a card that I had experience with in Merfolk, and I knew it could devistate greedy decks, as well as help shore up Enchantment Prison's worst match up (tron). Finally, after tuning for a while, I came up with this.
// 4 Creature
3 Heliod, God of the Sun
1 Dragonlord Ojutai
// 27 Enchantment
4 Ghostly Prison
4 Utopia Sprawl
2 Starfield of Nyx
3 Vessel of Nascency
2 Detention Sphere
3 Spreading Seas
2 Sigil of the Empty Throne
2 Pariah
1 Story Circle
1 Stasis Snare
3 Leyline of Sanctity
// 23 Land
2 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
2 Windswept Heath
4 Plains
3 Temple Garden
1 Breeding Pool
1 Island
2 Forest
3 Flooded Strand
1 Hallowed Fountain
2 Horizon Canopy
2 Botanical Sanctum
2 Supreme Verdict
1 Wrath of God
3 Serum Visions
// 7 Artifact
2 Pithing Needle
3 Defense Grid
2 Grafdigger's Cage
// 8 Enchantment
2 Stony Silence
3 Nevermore
1 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Runed Halo
The deck is fun to play, has some wacky interactions that are fun to navigate, and although you're laying locks down upon you're opponent, I've been told that it never seems as though it's impossible to beat (until it is). So, unlike Lantern Control, or Sun and Moon decks, your opponent does actually continue a match. This is a great thing for FNM and local play, but if you're looking for Hyper-competitive action at the professional level, I don't know if this is the deck for you. That being said, it can hold it's own against much of the field. It's locks are potent and resilient. Let's get into some of what the deck does.
"A Delicate veil of glamers can prove as sturdy as iron"
So there's no mystery that the name-sake card of the deck is Ghostly Prison The card is a staple of enchantment prison decks across the board, and even has made its way into the occasional sideboard. But with Abrupt Decay and Maelstrom Pulse both seeing far play in the current modern environment, I'd argue that now is the time for our stars to shine.
Even if you're able to see a Ghostly Prison in you're opening 7 every game, you're still not going to beat a string of beefed up Tarmogoyfs and Death's Shadows. The 3 cmc is just too slow to win the game on its own. You'll need to both speed up your game, and layer some additional glamer's down to keep the enemy at bay long enough to lock him out completely. Let's look at some of our enchantments.
It begins (ideally on turn zero) with Leyline of Sanctity. As much as I hate to see it, I've had players scoop to this card before they even start their turn. Some decks just can't touch it. It's particularly brutal against Burn, Grixis, and Jund. But it also hits decks you wouldn't expect it to: Gifts Ungiven for example. Or which use Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle as their primary wincon. Storm, 8Rack, Mill, etc. And it has the added bonus of contributing mightily to our devotion count which will become relevant when we discuss our boy Heliod, God of the Sun
Spreading Seas To my fellow Fish players, thank you for bringing this card into focus. While it isn't quite as good in this deck as it is in Merfolk, I think if the card has a second home anywhere, it's here. On the play, a turn 2 Spreading Seas can hamstring an opponent quite effectively. Particularly against land lean decks like burn and Merfolk. Obviously it's a great tool against Affinity's/infect's Inkmoth Nexus, and obviously, it's one of our most potent tools against Tron and Eldrazi decks.
Now to the Pariah of the group (see what I did there?). Pariah is an unsung hero. At worst, its a fog spell that also functions as a removal spell. At best, it's a total lock piece that cannot be surmounted. Attach Pariah to a indestructible God and short of a Path to Exile you're in good shape. Slap it on an opponent's creature with a Starfield of Nyx in play and you've got a nice soft lock that turn by turn, can remove threats, or stop attacks in their tracks. Pariah seems like a odd card, and it is, but it never falls flat.
"No matter who their fickle hearts worship, all mortals belong to one god in the end."
Heliod provides more than just flavor. He's a potent wincon that is very difficult to remove. He spits cleric tokens which can act as additional chump blockers, or attackers. He can tackle most any creature in combat. And as stated above, when enchanted with Pariah he becomes a lock piece that harder to break than a Masterlock. Heliod's indestructibility will come in hand, particularly after one of your sweepers like Wrath of God clear the path for him.
It is important to understand how Heliod interacts with Starfield of Nyx. There are some nuanced time stamp issues that you need to understand in order to take full advantage of how the two interact. As an alternative, you can play Oketra the True Who is nearly identical, however, cannot be brought back with Starfield if in the graveyard, which will be relevant if you lean heavy on Vessel of Nascency, as I do. She is also a good option as a 1 of, for a bit of added security just in case you get Surgically Extracted.
Finally, Heliod's best friend Dragonlord Ojutai form a nice pairing that allows the feathered dragon to swing in with fear of dropping his hexproof protection. All the while digging up a new sparkly tool for you to cast in main phase 2. While Ojutai is a cute card to pair with Heliod, he his by no means necessary, and may be an easy card to cut either for a better sideboard option, or from the deck completely.
"Nyx may belong to the gods, but the skies of Theros are ours."
Starfield is one of our most potent bombs as well as one of our greatest enablers. Starfield's five enchantment clause can be taken advantage of with tools like Vessel of Nascency. Allowing us to power enchantments down at will, to protect them from a removal spell as well as sort through our deck for the perfect card for to address the board. Starfield's non-aura clause means that your Utopia Sprawls and Spreading Seas still help contribute to your enchantment count, but are safe themselves from bolts of lightning or terminates. In the late game, after a sweeper, Starfield can come down to deliver the alpha strike needed to end an opponent. In the end, the card just takes the game over in a matter of turns, creating a constant engine of enchantments that never stay gone.
Starfield should never be played in multiples, outside of very unique circumstances though. So be careful, and don't get greedy.
Match ups
I have been working on a running tally of matches against various decks online (cockatrice), but have not finalized the numbers yet; however, as soon as I do, I will start posting them here. But I feel confident enough to say that I can speak to a few particular match ups and provide some idea as to how we tend to do.
Let's get the bad match ups out of the way.
They will spit in your cereal, and ruin your day.
Tron: We just don't interact with tron enough to stop it, even with the spreading seas, the Stony Silences, and Pithing Needles in the board. It just takes 1 Ugin to wipe us out, and that's the game. I hope to dodge it every week.
Ad Nauseam: Ad Nauseam's Lightning Storm isn't too much of a problem, it's their little mad scientist in the lab that ends our games with modern's premier combo deck. Nevermore is a mus for this match up, and what you name is dependent entirely on whether or not you can hate out Lightning Storm effectively. If you have protection from the storm, name Laboratory Maniac first, then the namesake Ad Nauseam. This match up is not unwinnable, but just know that you're probably going to give up game 1.
Good match ups:
Merfolk
Burn
Zoo
Affinity
B/W Tokens
Basically, any deck that uses creature to deal critical masses of damage, particularly go wide strategies.
Slapping a Ghostly Prison down turn 2 really puts the breaks on these decks. Follow it up with a few more layers of protection and a sweeper spell and you've got this match ups in the bag. Watch out for elves though, just because it costs 8 to attack, doesn't mean that elves can't pay it. And Affinity will still get through to you with a suited up Ornithopter if you're not careful. Cranial Plating is still a monster card.
Fair Match ups
Jund (all varieties)
Bant Eldrazi
Abzan company combo
These decks can get there sometimes no matter what we do; however, our lock pieces and hate out of the board make these match ups more than fair. I like my chances in just about any of these match ups, but you just can't sleep on them.
Thanks, if people show some interest in this deck, I'll keep updating the thread. Let me know what you think!
Ultimately, it would be a nice side board card for match ups like Lantern or R/W prison.
Maybe with the decline of lightning bolts, herald of the pantheon could possibly be a thing, but in my experience any non-enchantment creature tends to eat removal pretty quickly due to such a light creature count.
Natural law looks fine as well.
I respectfully disagree, while I believe that you are correct in calling it a powerful hate effect for aggro, a 2/1 enchantment creature that dies to just about everything should be no problem to remove (barring any sort of a anthem effect). This would die to Fatal Push, Lightning Bolt, Electolyze, abupt decay, Path to Exile etc. Had the card been solely an enchantment then I would be more accepting of your argument, which you are very much entitled to.
I would counter by saying that raising the cost to 4 cmc, puts a proper prison card out of reach, because in the Modern format, the damage is already done by turn four. Consider that neither Windborn Muse nor Archangel of Tithes are effective playables in the format.
Lets also consider which decks would play such a card. Few tiered decks outside of lantern, and RW Prison would employ such a card certainly not in the main board. Although I could see it used in UW strategies as well. Arguably, lantern needs no help, but this would not boost any current deck into tier zero territory.
I understand Wizards fear of "unfun" hate cards, particularly those which hate against creatures; however, even in standard such a creature could be easily removed. And, I would argue that proper hate cards such as this are beneficial for all formats, including standard. I would be open to changing the casting cost to double white though.
Ultimately, while the card would certainly be a powerful and mitigating effect for aggro, such a creature would not break any current deck, it would be easily removed, and would likely not see much play outside of sideboards.
Of course, this is all just one old man's opinion.
Cheers
1W. Enchantment Creature 1/2
Creatures your opponents control cannot attack you or a planeswalker you control unless they pay 1.
Carnivorous Scarab cmc: (1B) p/t (*/*)
Creature Parasite
Insect
Parasitic (1)---
Carnivorous Scarab enters the battlefield attached to target creature as a parasite. During your upkeep, put a -1/-1 count on the host creature.
When host creature leaves play, Carnivorous Scarab becomes a creature with a power band toughness equal to the number of -1/-1 counters on the host creature when it left play.
Other commanders like Karador are good because the help kids learn to not freak out over losing their stuff in the graveyard. Which is an important lesson.
Then you have commanders like Rafiq, who is the consumant good guy, who can be tailored to suit a more Timmy type player.
But for me, if I'm picking a deck for a new player to begin with, I'd have to go with everyone's first EDH deck... Slivers.
Yes, they are a bit generic (although they don't have to be), and a few of them are pretty expensive. But the are fun to play with as a new player, they are easy, and they can win games even without their busted cards. what's more is that Wizards has provided us with great dual lands that are cheap and easy to pick up. You really don't need to look much beyond the guild gates, Khans wedge lands, or the litany of other CTP lands that are languishing about in stores everywhere.
Good luck!!
Ely
3 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Wasteland Strangler
3 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Spell Queller
2 Ulamog's Nullifier
2 Drowner of Hope
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Spellskite
Instants
3 Path to Exile
3 Remand
3 Delay
Lands 23
2 Polluted Delta
1 Watery Grave
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Adarkar Wastes
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Flooded Strand
2 Plains
1 Swamp
2 Island
2 Cavern of Souls
1 Mystic Gate
1 Sunken Ruins
1 Caves of Koilos
1 Godless Shrine
1 Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
Sorcery
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Ancestral Vision
2 Pithing Needle
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Eidolon of Rhetoric
2 Kataki, War's Wage
1 Rest in Peace
2 Worship
2 Spell Pierce
2 Lost Legacy
Yeah, I'm running 61 in the main, mostly because I want to run Ashiok (who is amazing btw). I've played with manlands a bit as well, both creeping tar pit and celestial colonnade, but I found that they often ate into my ability to play the draw-go game. However, I've also experienced games where things ground to a halt, and a creeping tar pit would have helped out. I think our mana base can support 1 but no more. If you're smart with your mana base, the colorless isn't really too bad, cavern of souls, pain lands, filter lands, Eldrazi temples, they make colorless mana pretty easy to come by.
Right now, this is a remarkably interactive deck, by far the most interactive I've ever played and it's among the most enjoyable. But the deck does let you down sometimes, this happens mostly when you're on the draw and can't interact with what your opponents are doing.
If you're having good results with Fatal Push keep with it. I don't like the card personally for our deck, because I want to exile critters. For me, I like to tear apart their hand with Inquisition or Thoughtseize.
How have things been going for you without a bomb card like Reality Smasher or Drowner? I didn't see see any Thoughtknot Seers either, which seems interesting. Are the tokens from Sram's what gets you over the hump?
My deck has changed a bit since my last post as well and I am now running 2 Vendillion Cliques for hand disruption and beats. And I think I have a pretty optimal list for my meta. But more than Tron worries, I fear Jund. I just don't know how we hope to keep up with the card for card trade when their cards are significantly more potent than even TKS or Drowner. They pack too much value in their 60 to out tempo, and the removal suite is so good, I'm just at a loss against that deck.
With regards to the up tick of blood moon, yes it is a concern. but for me, I've packed in 3 Delay, 3 remand, 4 quellers, 2 nullifiers, 3 Inquisitions, 3 Thoughtknots, and 2 Vendillion Cliques. If I can't keep a B Moon off of the board I just accept that I'm going to eat that game.
I think we are a strange draw-go tempo deck, much akin to faeries and u/w spirits. If you're going to be playing on your turn you need to be dropping major bombs like TKS, Smasher, or Drowner. Or you need to be riding you processors (and Eldrazi Displacer) to value town.
Good luck my spaghetti monster friend, drop us a line and let us know what you are doing.
You, sir, are on to something. Can we get this guy in a room with someone from Wizards? He has a great idea.
Jokes aside this is a good way to go, IMO. That said the argument against this is that it really may create a slippery slope type of situation where older "reprints" create new problems for a format where it would be tempting to just dig deeper for another onld card to answer this new problem, rather than creating a new card to put through standard to affect modern. At some point this can really dilute the format. At least, I think that's how the argument goes. Personally, I think that Wizards would just have to keep a tight grip on possible additions in this way and we'd be fine. But I play enchantress in modern, and am clearly not too bright. So take what I say with a grain of salt.