Tarmogoyf has put a major stranglehold on the environment on Block. Because it is splashable and it becomes big really fast, it has put a "black-hole" like effect on the metagame.
Either you run Tarmogoyf, or you try to beat it. When both decks play Tarmogoyfs, whoever gets more than the other will win. That's NOT how Magic should be played. When one card single-handely dictates how the game should be played, that easily warrants a ban IMO.
This might sound pretty radical, but this creature is just incredibly broken. I really hope this guy doesn't destroy T2 as well...
I wouldn't be too unhappy with this, but the people who have paid 65$ for a playset might be...
There are good and cheap ways to hose it though, like Tormod's Crypt.. Hopefully Xth or Lorwyn will bring something useful that will happen to eat 'Goyf.
I know this is cliche, but Tarmogoyf can be destroyed or chump blocked! Really, creatures with high P/T but no evasion or abilities aren't the be all and end all of Magic.
Kamigawa block was essentially run Gifts or Jitte or lose. Neither got banned (I think...)
And WotC doesn't like to ban things. It'll get banned when TSP constructed becomes Tarmogoyf only - because no one else is playing.
But don't take my word for it. I really don't know much about this block format.
Tarmogoyf is a very good creature. However, he is not bannable nor is he close. Every format has its benchmark cards. Tarmogoyf is one of this formats. He's not degenerate or gives something that his colors shouldn't have, he's just big. This is not to say that it is a bad card at all, it is one of the defining (I'd say it is THE defining card, but there are a few cards in teachings that are up there) cards of the format, but calling for its banning is just ridiculous. Wizards doesn't ban cards because of their value, nor just because of creature size. No, a 2/3 for 1 isn't particularly fair priced. A 4/5-5/6 (average) for 2 isn't particularly fair priced. But broken? Not even close.
The control decks are still better than the aggro decks at the moment... Asking for 'Goyfs banning is ridiculous. It's not even showing particularly good numbers in the PTQ season for now.
You really just need to embrace the rage. I keep a small colony of hamsters next to my computer and every time I lose a match to mana screw I throw one against the wall.
LOL @ the masticore comment.... i can bet that was in EVERY deck....
BTW anyone seen frank Karstens online report Teachings comprises 20+ percent of the format... Just to point out you know. Also one very very big difference between affinity and goyf... goyf can be run in 85 % of the block decks currently around.... affinity was affinity only not any variations to really speak of... currently theres EVERY color combination of goyf possible seeing play.
LOL @ the masticore comment.... i can bet that was in EVERY deck....
BTW anyone seen frank Karstens online report Teachings comprises 20+ percent of the format... Just to point out you know. Also one very very big difference between affinity and goyf... goyf can be run in 85 % of the block decks currently around.... affinity was affinity only not any variations to really speak of... currently theres EVERY color combination of goyf possible seeing play.
It was in every deck. And then most Extended decks at the time. Then everyone SB Powder Keg to deal with it. Then Powder Keg went MD.
It's funny how the correlation it almost spot on because at the prerelease, and for sometime after, people thought Masticore was a HORRIBLE card. "I have to discard a card EVERY TURN? Not playing THAT."
Same for Tarm. Very unloved early on but once he caught on its crazy.
Goyf is NOT broken by a longshot. Lesurgo nailed it - He's unfairly costed, but he's nowhere near broken.
Comparing Goyf to DotV and Skullclamp isn't even fair. DotV basically said "I win" when it hit the table in affinity. Skullclamp basically said "I draw every card in my deck and play them". Those were more than unfair. If you remember, the field in T2 when all those cards were legal were either Affinity or pure affinity hate. Current block is nowhere near that state. Sure Goyf shows up alot but Pickles just beats it and pickles is NOT just an anti goyf strategy. It's a deck that happens to be very good against Goyfs, plain and simple.
When the format gets to a point where it's literally 50% Goyf decks and 50% decks running 4x Crypt, 4x Extirpate etc just to deal with him, then you can worry. For now, he's easily manageable and nowhere near format crippling.
EDIT: Also, any deck running Goyf has to be tailored to him pretty much. You HAVE to be able to get stuff into the yard. He's not always coming down turn 2 as a 3/4 and getting tossed in the air as a 5/6 turn 3. That's god draw for goyf decks. DotV could come down at any point in Affinity and just win out of nowhere.
When is the banning, December right? By that time, TPF block will be in the "Past Block Formats" (or whatever it's called).
Sycik: you can play him against mirror and it works. Also, you don't really need to because eventually both players will probably have fairly full graveyards.
tarmogoy isnt even close to getting banned.jitte was a lot more power and it didnt get banned. tarmogoy is like jitte. its needed to give a aggro decks a good chance in block against ***s+tendrils.
If they ban Tarmogoyf, they better ban Mystical Teachings and Vesuvan Shapeshifter while they're at it. I think the block format is fine the way it is. Anyone calling for Tarmogoyf to be banned is just being silly, probably beacuse it makes their pet deck unplayable.
At least Tarmogoyf has helped take away the strangle-hold that UB Teferi had on the format. I in no way believe that Tarmogoyf should be banned nor do I believe that it will. He's a nice cheap power-house but not overly dominate.
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Tarmagoyf doesn't have an effect that lasts after it is dealt with... Jitte would stay in play after the creature that it equipped died, yet they still kept it... of course, it was Legendary, so it wasn't abused in dupes. Ravager would move it's counters to a different target, keeping it's advantage after it's death... and Ravager had it's own engine built in. Tarmagoyf is a really good creature that can do some serious damage if not dealt with... so deal with it. It's not going to be banned, infact, the meta game could shift and even it out. We've got such a huge cardpool, we could see cards being 'the flavor of the month'
Kird ape was 2/3 on turn 1 almost all the time and nobody wanted that one banned. Spectral force is 8/8 trample sometimes on turn 3. What's the big deal, let green get some love.
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Goyf should NOT be banned in block. Its just a good creature. I mean they didn't even ban Umezawa's Jitte and Jitte was played in block (Kamigawa block of course) way more than goyf is being played. If goyf is banned in block u might as well ban Teferi, Spectral Force, etc.
goyf is not the best deck in the format and is not worth banning, because he does nothing but attack and he has a limit at how big he could get
That's a very narrow-minded argument. What if I made a creature called this:
Simple 1 Creature - Avatar
1000/1000
All he does is attack and size is limited. But he's still obviously broken, and ban-worthy if ever printed. You have to analyze more than just 'all he does is attack and can't become infinitely large'.
That's a very narrow-minded argument. What if I made a creature called this:
Simple 1 Creature - Avatar
1000/1000
All he does is attack and size is limited. But he's still obviously broken, and ban-worthy if ever printed. You have to analyze more than just 'all he does is attack and can't become infinitely large'.
tarmogoy is a big creature. but u need it to play in a deck that take advantage of its ability(graveyard). playing tarmgofy on turn 2 is not even that scary. half the time im facing a 1/2 or a 2/3. u can get a 2/3 with elvish warrior and no body complained about him.
That's a very narrow-minded argument. What if I made a creature called this:
Simple 1 Creature - Avatar
1000/1000
All he does is attack and size is limited. But he's still obviously broken, and ban-worthy if ever printed. You have to analyze more than just 'all he does is attack and can't become infinitely large'.
First thing is, what i mean is he does not degenerate the format with a highly consistant combo, or for that fact start out as a 1/1 that reads,
sac a permanent: Add a +1/+1 counter to me
or
4 Return a land 4 lands u control to yourHand: put 4 1/1 flyers into play.
I mean he doesn;t even say discard a card: pump +1/+1.
So saying that he degenerates the format is pure ignorance, he is just a highly efficient creature that is in a defining deck in the block format, not a dominant deck. Teachings is the dominant deck in the format, because if played by a good player, it crushes goyf 9/10 times.
That is my 2 cents about tarmogoyf
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Either you run Tarmogoyf, or you try to beat it. When both decks play Tarmogoyfs, whoever gets more than the other will win. That's NOT how Magic should be played. When one card single-handely dictates how the game should be played, that easily warrants a ban IMO.
This might sound pretty radical, but this creature is just incredibly broken. I really hope this guy doesn't destroy T2 as well...
Thoughts?
There are good and cheap ways to hose it though, like Tormod's Crypt.. Hopefully Xth or Lorwyn will bring something useful that will happen to eat 'Goyf.
Kamigawa block was essentially run Gifts or Jitte or lose. Neither got banned (I think...)
And WotC doesn't like to ban things. It'll get banned when TSP constructed becomes Tarmogoyf only - because no one else is playing.
But don't take my word for it. I really don't know much about this block format.
I like Tarm. Sure he can be abused by other cards:
Turn 1 Flagstones. Cycle to Edge and Cycle Street Wraith.
Turn 2 Forest. Tarm 3/4.
Turn 3 Griffin Guide for a 5/6 Flier.
But you can deal with that. It's not broken, just a very powerful card. Slaughter Pact in response to Griffin.
Or Temporal Isolation.
The meta is diverse enough that many decks can deal with him and there are enough cards that after SB he's not so great.
BTW anyone seen frank Karstens online report Teachings comprises 20+ percent of the format... Just to point out you know. Also one very very big difference between affinity and goyf... goyf can be run in 85 % of the block decks currently around.... affinity was affinity only not any variations to really speak of... currently theres EVERY color combination of goyf possible seeing play.
Yes i am the same guy who trades/sells on MOTL AND Wizards of the Coast and i trade on POJO.
It was in every deck. And then most Extended decks at the time. Then everyone SB Powder Keg to deal with it. Then Powder Keg went MD.
It's funny how the correlation it almost spot on because at the prerelease, and for sometime after, people thought Masticore was a HORRIBLE card. "I have to discard a card EVERY TURN? Not playing THAT."
Same for Tarm. Very unloved early on but once he caught on its crazy.
Comparing Goyf to DotV and Skullclamp isn't even fair. DotV basically said "I win" when it hit the table in affinity. Skullclamp basically said "I draw every card in my deck and play them". Those were more than unfair. If you remember, the field in T2 when all those cards were legal were either Affinity or pure affinity hate. Current block is nowhere near that state. Sure Goyf shows up alot but Pickles just beats it and pickles is NOT just an anti goyf strategy. It's a deck that happens to be very good against Goyfs, plain and simple.
When the format gets to a point where it's literally 50% Goyf decks and 50% decks running 4x Crypt, 4x Extirpate etc just to deal with him, then you can worry. For now, he's easily manageable and nowhere near format crippling.
EDIT: Also, any deck running Goyf has to be tailored to him pretty much. You HAVE to be able to get stuff into the yard. He's not always coming down turn 2 as a 3/4 and getting tossed in the air as a 5/6 turn 3. That's god draw for goyf decks. DotV could come down at any point in Affinity and just win out of nowhere.
Sycik: you can play him against mirror and it works. Also, you don't really need to because eventually both players will probably have fairly full graveyards.
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That's a very narrow-minded argument. What if I made a creature called this:
Simple
1 Creature - Avatar
1000/1000
All he does is attack and size is limited. But he's still obviously broken, and ban-worthy if ever printed. You have to analyze more than just 'all he does is attack and can't become infinitely large'.
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tarmogoy is a big creature. but u need it to play in a deck that take advantage of its ability(graveyard). playing tarmgofy on turn 2 is not even that scary. half the time im facing a 1/2 or a 2/3. u can get a 2/3 with elvish warrior and no body complained about him.
First thing is, what i mean is he does not degenerate the format with a highly consistant combo, or for that fact start out as a 1/1 that reads,
sac a permanent: Add a +1/+1 counter to me
or
4 Return a land 4 lands u control to yourHand: put 4 1/1 flyers into play.
I mean he doesn;t even say discard a card: pump +1/+1.
So saying that he degenerates the format is pure ignorance, he is just a highly efficient creature that is in a defining deck in the block format, not a dominant deck. Teachings is the dominant deck in the format, because if played by a good player, it crushes goyf 9/10 times.
That is my 2 cents about tarmogoyf