Just cancelled 3 preordered boxes, and by tomorrow I'll decide if I also cancel the two drafts I preregistered. Thank you for sparing my money again, WoTC, you've been really kind to me this last year.
After all the apologies one would have thought that they would have learned their lesson with Iconic Masters, but it seems again that we have to play the Blue Mythic lottery. The fact that they also moneyshifted Chalice of the Void and decided on Tree of Perdition for the INN mythic while also shafting a lot of good iconic Green mythics like Goyf or Natural order isn't helping their cause.
This couldn't have been something like Reiterate or Jaya Ballard, Task Mage? Sure the later isn't expensive, but at least it meshes with Dominaria, which would be better than this card.
Yeah, I mean this set has good rares in it, but not 10 dollar a pack rares. They did spoil Pact of Negation so at least that helps a bit. Still, very few cards that see wide adoption across formats.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Fitting. Its stealing your 10 dollar bill every time you crack a pack with this thief in it.
Wizards is now subtly rubbing it in you face via this card.
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
I think the overall ev of the rares in this set is worse than iconic masters. Iconic had at least 4 rares that were $50+ before the reprint, and actually had a pretty good amount of rares and mythic that were mid-priced, like 15-25 bucks. I'm curious to see how m25 and iconic compare to each other when it's all said and done.
I guarantee they put this card in because they wanted to show off the Ali from Cairo ability, but couldn't put Ali in because of the reserved list. I had a feeling they might do this. They should have instead done gauntlet of power to represent gauntlet of might, another rl card.
Another disappointment.
One thing I'd like to know is whether Gavin or those guys actually pay money for their internal drafts or whether they get an allotment for R&D and they just draft to get a feel. Because right now, I don't really want to drop $45 CDN for a draft when I could use that $45 to get a card or two out of the set as singles.
Message to Gavin and others that work on this set: If I don't get $10 U.S. out of value per pack, I'm not opening the pack, period. Keep the EV high and my interest will remain high.
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The "Crazy One", playing casual magic and occasionally dipping his toes into regular play since 1994.
Currently focusing on Pre-Modern (Mono-Black Discard Control) and Modern (Azorious Control, Temur Rhinos).
Find me at the Wizard's Tower in Ottawa every second Saturday afternoons.
Someone should do an alter with her running off with a ten dollar bill.
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Avatar by Disappointing Signet Inc
EDH Decks UWB Oloro, Ageless Ascetic's spring of life RUG Animar, Soul of the Elements and friends... lots of them WBG Karador king of two worlds (value and attrition) WRKalemne's Angels BRUG Yidris's Wild Party UWBR Breya's Terrifying Tinker Toys UBRThe Pretender
When they revealed things like Rishadan Port and even Thalia I was okay with it.
But I feel like this set is going to bomb as hard as Iconic Masters. Casuals don't buy 10$ packs.
Why is this how every single spoiler season goes? I feel like people should EXPECT the exciting cards to be spoiled first followed by 10 times as many junk cards. That's just how this works. Why are people still surprised?
Why is this how every single spoiler season goes? I feel like people should EXPECT the exciting cards to be spoiled first followed by 10 times as many junk cards. That's just how this works. Why are people still surprised?
Well they advertised the set as something "big" and people are just disappointed if they dont deliver.
So yes, people are surprised, or simply disappointed.
Its a 25 year Happy Birthday set, they totally could put much more value in this, just to make people happy (its not like they need to do that every time, nobody expects that, but cmon its Happy Birthday 25th).
Simply put, they increase an hype by setting up high expectations and then fail to deliver.
Another disappointment.
One thing I'd like to know is whether Gavin or those guys actually pay money for their internal drafts or whether they get an allotment for R&D and they just draft to get a feel. Because right now, I don't really want to drop $45 CDN for a draft when I could use that $45 to get a card or two out of the set as singles.
Message to Gavin and others that work on this set: If I don't get $10 U.S. out of value per pack, I'm not opening the pack, period. Keep the EV high and my interest will remain high.
You know this isn't how EV or gambling works right? I get that people are upset that the value gets soaked up by a few cards but yeah, it hasn't been a good idea to crack packs for value in a long time. If you're going to draft, you're paying to draft and the additional expense is an experiential cost. You're subsidizing the cost of paying people to design a draft environment, not to shove every card you want into packs so you can conveniently crack the things you need.
I understand your frustration. I don't need Fortune Thief either. On the other hand, if I had the monumental task of designing a set meant to encapsulate the whole of Magic's history in which I wasn't allowed to pick cards from the Reserved List, and had to maintain pretty strict boundaries for numbers of rares/mythics/uncommons, and had to create an interesting limited environment, AND had to cater to a secondary market being mindful not to crash anything entirely then yeah I might throw in Fortune Thief. It's a very rare effect in MtG that is a callback to a well-appreciated card from Magic's History. Moreover, it is a very interesting effect in limited. No it's not a huge hit in terms of value, but it ticks off all the other boxes pretty well.
I think it's important we remember that the variety of employees at Wizards do not solely function to entertain our individual interests. They have a very specific task, and it comes with not pleasing everyone all the time. Are you upset that Rishadan Port is in the set, or are you happy for it? If so, may I ask what red rare you would put in place of Fortune Thief that also speaks to Magic's history in the same way, has a hugely interesting effect on limited, and suddenly fills your pockets as you hope? The only candidate that immediately pops to my mind is Stigma Lasher which really only costs anything because it's not awful and it's scarce.
I don't mean to offend or attack you personally, I just notice a lot of these posts that ignore the idea of EV and what a huge task this actually was to craft this set. It's the internet, use it how you will, but these people work to make a game for everyone, not just you, not just me, not just all of MTGS, and the biting message to an individual in particular feels very unnecessary.
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I tend to buy things in cases. I bought a case of Rivals after it was spoiled and even though there's plenty of chaffe rares, there's good playable cards and playsets of things that I wanted to use in the Standard Environment.
I tend to buy things in cases. I bought a case of Rivals after it was spoiled and even though there's plenty of chaffe rares, there's good playable cards and playsets of things that I wanted to use in the Standard Environment.
Good for you, but some of us don't have a grand or so to blow every time a new set comes out. You shouldn't have to buy in bulk to get a decent return. Notice I said "decent" return, I'm not even talking breaking even here.
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
I tend to buy things in cases. I bought a case of Rivals after it was spoiled and even though there's plenty of chaffe rares, there's good playable cards and playsets of things that I wanted to use in the Standard Environment.
Good for you, but some of us don't have a grand or so to blow every time a new set comes out. You shouldn't have to buy in bulk to get a decent return. Notice I said "decent" return, I'm not even talking breaking even here.
I work hard and I play hard! Anyways, yeah I agree 100% with you on this set. I don't feel like every card needs to be a home run, but if they're printing a set with a 10$ price tag, I'm completely turned off by the cards. And it doesn't have to be 'super high value' cards, but I'd rather have 10 to 15 rares that are playable in Legacy/Modern and No Jace rather than being able to complete the majority of this set for 50$ and a trip to the bargain bin at my LGS.
Another disappointment.
One thing I'd like to know is whether Gavin or those guys actually pay money for their internal drafts or whether they get an allotment for R&D and they just draft to get a feel. Because right now, I don't really want to drop $45 CDN for a draft when I could use that $45 to get a card or two out of the set as singles.
Message to Gavin and others that work on this set: If I don't get $10 U.S. out of value per pack, I'm not opening the pack, period. Keep the EV high and my interest will remain high.
I was actually pretty proud of myself for this one
I tend to buy things in cases. I bought a case of Rivals after it was spoiled and even though there's plenty of chaffe rares, there's good playable cards and playsets of things that I wanted to use in the Standard Environment.
Good for you, but some of us don't have a grand or so to blow every time a new set comes out. You shouldn't have to buy in bulk to get a decent return. Notice I said "decent" return, I'm not even talking breaking even here.
I work hard and I play hard! Anyways, yeah I agree 100% with you on this set. I don't feel like every card needs to be a home run, but if they're printing a set with a 10$ price tag, I'm completely turned off by the cards. And it doesn't have to be 'super high value' cards, but I'd rather have 10 to 15 rares that are playable in Legacy/Modern and No Jace rather than being able to complete the majority of this set for 50$ and a trip to the bargain bin at my LGS.
No problem. Just wanted to see what angle you were coming from. As a consumer I always want more bang for my buck and this set is under-delivering in spades at this moment.
My advice is don't reward Wizards by buying your usual case/cases of product. They don't deserve it. Buy the singles that you need. I'm hoping this product rots on shelves just like Iconic is so they can stew in their own failure.
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
I would draft the ***** out of this set if it didn't cost three times as much as a normal one. Based on all of the other responses I think this is the point where people are finally fed up with "Masters" packs costing $10 for no good reason. Hopefully this will be the last one, and it's a shame that the 25th anniversary set is tainted by this needless corporate greed.
Another disappointment.
One thing I'd like to know is whether Gavin or those guys actually pay money for their internal drafts or whether they get an allotment for R&D and they just draft to get a feel. Because right now, I don't really want to drop $45 CDN for a draft when I could use that $45 to get a card or two out of the set as singles.
Message to Gavin and others that work on this set: If I don't get $10 U.S. out of value per pack, I'm not opening the pack, period. Keep the EV high and my interest will remain high.
I was actually pretty proud of myself for this one
Yeah its hilarious that designers who have nothing to do with high-level decision making are going to be scapegoated by their corporate overlords who are the ones actually responsible for the state of Magic when this product fails
I tend to buy things in cases. I bought a case of Rivals after it was spoiled and even though there's plenty of chaffe rares, there's good playable cards and playsets of things that I wanted to use in the Standard Environment.
Good for you, but some of us don't have a grand or so to blow every time a new set comes out. You shouldn't have to buy in bulk to get a decent return. Notice I said "decent" return, I'm not even talking breaking even here.
I work hard and I play hard! Anyways, yeah I agree 100% with you on this set. I don't feel like every card needs to be a home run, but if they're printing a set with a 10$ price tag, I'm completely turned off by the cards. And it doesn't have to be 'super high value' cards, but I'd rather have 10 to 15 rares that are playable in Legacy/Modern and No Jace rather than being able to complete the majority of this set for 50$ and a trip to the bargain bin at my LGS.
No problem. Just wanted to see what angle you were coming from. As a consumer I always want more bang for my buck and this set is under-delivering in spades at this moment.
My advice is don't reward Wizards by buying your usual case/cases of product. They don't deserve it. Buy the singles that you need. I'm hoping this product rots on shelves just like Iconic is so they can stew in their own failure.
Yeah I was so stoked to buy a couple cases of this set but the day after the initial spoilers it turned out they wanted to make Iconic Masters 2: Electric Boogaloo.
Yeah its hilarious that designers who have nothing to do with high-level decision making are going to be scapegoated by their corporate overlords who are the ones actually responsible for the state of Magic when this product fails
Message to Gavin and others that work on this set: If I don't get $10 U.S. out of value per pack, I'm not opening the pack, period. Keep the EV high and my interest will remain high.
Genuine question: Do you usually get $3.50 value from your normal packs?
I'm calling it right now- worst rare in the set. Even good limited players will find better bombs at common and uncommon no sweat. Worst. Episode. Ever.
I really do predict this to be our worst rare in set award winner. I'd be happier opening a jar of eyeballs, so I think anything worse is highly unlikely. This card wont just have zero constructed potential, but not be significantly better than a mass of ghouls in a draft.
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First printed in Time Spiral.
Number Crunch .:. Spreadsheet: Cards per Set
After all the apologies one would have thought that they would have learned their lesson with Iconic Masters, but it seems again that we have to play the Blue Mythic lottery. The fact that they also moneyshifted Chalice of the Void and decided on Tree of Perdition for the INN mythic while also shafting a lot of good iconic Green mythics like Goyf or Natural order isn't helping their cause.
Thanks to DNC from Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sig
Check my Pauper Cube!
When they revealed things like Rishadan Port and even Thalia I was okay with it.
But I feel like this set is going to bomb as hard as Iconic Masters. Casuals don't buy 10$ packs.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Wizards is now subtly rubbing it in you face via this card.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
I guarantee they put this card in because they wanted to show off the Ali from Cairo ability, but couldn't put Ali in because of the reserved list. I had a feeling they might do this. They should have instead done gauntlet of power to represent gauntlet of might, another rl card.
One thing I'd like to know is whether Gavin or those guys actually pay money for their internal drafts or whether they get an allotment for R&D and they just draft to get a feel. Because right now, I don't really want to drop $45 CDN for a draft when I could use that $45 to get a card or two out of the set as singles.
Message to Gavin and others that work on this set: If I don't get $10 U.S. out of value per pack, I'm not opening the pack, period. Keep the EV high and my interest will remain high.
Currently focusing on Pre-Modern (Mono-Black Discard Control) and Modern (Azorious Control, Temur Rhinos).
Find me at the Wizard's Tower in Ottawa every second Saturday afternoons.
EDH Decks
UWB Oloro, Ageless Ascetic's spring of life
RUG Animar, Soul of the Elements and friends... lots of them
WBG Karador king of two worlds (value and attrition)
WRKalemne's Angels
BRUG Yidris's Wild Party
UWBR Breya's Terrifying Tinker Toys
UBR The Pretender
Well they advertised the set as something "big" and people are just disappointed if they dont deliver.
So yes, people are surprised, or simply disappointed.
Its a 25 year Happy Birthday set, they totally could put much more value in this, just to make people happy (its not like they need to do that every time, nobody expects that, but cmon its Happy Birthday 25th).
Simply put, they increase an hype by setting up high expectations and then fail to deliver.
WUBRG#BlackLotusMatterWUBRG
👮👮👮 #BlueLivesMatter 👮👮👮
You know this isn't how EV or gambling works right? I get that people are upset that the value gets soaked up by a few cards but yeah, it hasn't been a good idea to crack packs for value in a long time. If you're going to draft, you're paying to draft and the additional expense is an experiential cost. You're subsidizing the cost of paying people to design a draft environment, not to shove every card you want into packs so you can conveniently crack the things you need.
I understand your frustration. I don't need Fortune Thief either. On the other hand, if I had the monumental task of designing a set meant to encapsulate the whole of Magic's history in which I wasn't allowed to pick cards from the Reserved List, and had to maintain pretty strict boundaries for numbers of rares/mythics/uncommons, and had to create an interesting limited environment, AND had to cater to a secondary market being mindful not to crash anything entirely then yeah I might throw in Fortune Thief. It's a very rare effect in MtG that is a callback to a well-appreciated card from Magic's History. Moreover, it is a very interesting effect in limited. No it's not a huge hit in terms of value, but it ticks off all the other boxes pretty well.
I think it's important we remember that the variety of employees at Wizards do not solely function to entertain our individual interests. They have a very specific task, and it comes with not pleasing everyone all the time. Are you upset that Rishadan Port is in the set, or are you happy for it? If so, may I ask what red rare you would put in place of Fortune Thief that also speaks to Magic's history in the same way, has a hugely interesting effect on limited, and suddenly fills your pockets as you hope? The only candidate that immediately pops to my mind is Stigma Lasher which really only costs anything because it's not awful and it's scarce.
I don't mean to offend or attack you personally, I just notice a lot of these posts that ignore the idea of EV and what a huge task this actually was to craft this set. It's the internet, use it how you will, but these people work to make a game for everyone, not just you, not just me, not just all of MTGS, and the biting message to an individual in particular feels very unnecessary.
Good for you, but some of us don't have a grand or so to blow every time a new set comes out. You shouldn't have to buy in bulk to get a decent return. Notice I said "decent" return, I'm not even talking breaking even here.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
I work hard and I play hard! Anyways, yeah I agree 100% with you on this set. I don't feel like every card needs to be a home run, but if they're printing a set with a 10$ price tag, I'm completely turned off by the cards. And it doesn't have to be 'super high value' cards, but I'd rather have 10 to 15 rares that are playable in Legacy/Modern and No Jace rather than being able to complete the majority of this set for 50$ and a trip to the bargain bin at my LGS.
I was actually pretty proud of myself for this one
No problem. Just wanted to see what angle you were coming from. As a consumer I always want more bang for my buck and this set is under-delivering in spades at this moment.
My advice is don't reward Wizards by buying your usual case/cases of product. They don't deserve it. Buy the singles that you need. I'm hoping this product rots on shelves just like Iconic is so they can stew in their own failure.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Yeah its hilarious that designers who have nothing to do with high-level decision making are going to be scapegoated by their corporate overlords who are the ones actually responsible for the state of Magic when this product fails
Yeah I was so stoked to buy a couple cases of this set but the day after the initial spoilers it turned out they wanted to make Iconic Masters 2: Electric Boogaloo.
I'm glad we agree!
Genuine question: Do you usually get $3.50 value from your normal packs?