WotC published today changes for MTGO New Players and TNMO play, at this link. I didn't find a thread in this subforum, hope I'm not out of place posting this...
Basically speaking:
- New Players Ticket will only be used to join Phantom M13 events, designed for... well.... new players.
- TNMO will always cost 5 (regular) tickets, using Phantom boosters when its format is draft or sealed
TNMO went from being (for Constructed events) a $2 tournament to a $5 one. With +1 to the potential packs you can win. That seems like a crappy deal, seeing as this is the only way to get the FNM promo cards online.
The $2 price point to enter made it pretty attractive as a fun, low-pressure way to play some games and get a sweet promo. The price hike bugs me a fair bit.
Also, WHYYYYY are TNMO drafts/sealed now ONLY Phantom events? That makes no sense to me, I'm not going to waste my time drafting standard sets where I don't keep the cards.
/endrant
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"I have seen the true path. I will not warm myself by
the fire - I will become the flame." - Lim-Dûl, the Necromancer
more and more ****ups on WotC's part. Granted i dont play in TNMO anyways because i couldn't compete Now i have absolutely zero reason to even attempt it with "phantom TNMO" drafts...
To the people who are making these decisions. STOP ****ING **** UP.
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Ravarshi Kashaku, Ancient Dragon of the Darkened Realms;
The Merciless Lord of Torture, Permanently Bound To: ">[THE PACK] 11/5/63 - 11/25/09 Goodbye mom, i'll always love you...
This thread is not a rumor, and rofl at the whinging here.
TNMO is something WoTC is trying to get more people to enter, because most people don't right now.
All the people I know who use MTGO ignore it, I ignore it, it isn't a major part of MTGO.
Raising the entry a few tix isn't going to end everything, and TNMO is hardly something that was enticing people to install and use MTGO. Now they are at least pushing it for new users.
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TNMO is something WoTC is trying to get more people to enter, because most people don't right now.
All the people I know who use MTGO ignore it, I ignore it, it isn't a major part of MTGO.
Raising the entry a few tix isn't going to end everything, and TNMO is hardly something that was enticing people to install and use MTGO. Now they are at least pushing it for new users.
Giving new players the change to play TNMO with the new player ticks is a good idea.
Making the old players pay for this by more than doubling the price was not. I wouldn't be suprised if even less people join the TNMO queues now. Up till now i checked the queues each thursday. But i am not going to pay 5 ticks just to get a single stupid card. Sure you can make your money back if you win, but not everyone can be a winner all the time and i certainly don't win a lot.
This thread is not a rumor, and rofl at the whinging here.
TNMO is something WoTC is trying to get more people to enter, because most people don't right now.
All the people I know who use MTGO ignore it, I ignore it, it isn't a major part of MTGO.
Raising the entry a few tix isn't going to end everything, and TNMO is hardly something that was enticing people to install and use MTGO. Now they are at least pushing it for new users.
Pushing TNMO is a good thing, and pushing it for new players is also a good thing.
The problem for me is that 5 tickets for a "phantom draft" sounds like a terrible deal. Personally I don't understand the appeal of "phantom" events at all, but beside that, I don't understand why this would cost 5 tickets instead of the standard 2 ticket entry fee for most other draft formats.
Just when I was thinking to enter MTGO comes this, now they made my decision easy... they just lost a future MTGO player, and many more I guess
Wait, changing the way TNMO works and its ticket price actually causes people to NOT want to even JOIN MTGO? Really? TNMO isn't that popular, and is nowhere NEAR crucial/pivotal to the MTGO scene. JUST DON'T PLAY IT. Play normal draft/sealed queues, its really that simple. This changes very little.
I really don't see ANY new potential player thinking, "Hmm... I love Magic, and this Magic online thing sounds pretty fun! I can play all sorts of formats, join different size tournaments at almost any time of day, or just play with my cards! Wow, this is gre-- Wait a second... There's this one tournament that costs me $5 and I don't even get to keep the cards! Forget all those other tourneys, I'm out of here."
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IIW for any CCC (pick the highest one in the list):
A high-costed equipment (I want it big, but make sure it isn't nutso-broken with Stoneforge. So a high equip cost or a benefit for casting or something)
A Squirrel Wizard
A G?? (1-3 colors, including green) legendary creature with its main strat based on not attacking
Before 90-100 people start complaining, I play **** tons of mtgo and have never even heard of this.
That's how little it will affect your experience.
I almost never play MTGO and well, mainly because it is expensive and I prefer the interaction of real people. But sometimes, a draft sounds good at like 8 pm when I am chiling at home.
I realy dont think this will be that big of a deal. Plus, if people REALLY don't like it, Wizards will probably change it. They do listen....sometimes
The new player tickets are fine, the changes to TNMO are really stupid. TNMO drafts used to be swiss drafts with better EV - there was one more pack paid out to 3-0s, no tickets to enter, and you got a promo. It's not a huge deal - I just won't play TNMO drafts anymore - but it's needlessly dumb.
I assume if they see massive drop offs on TNMO drafts they will change this back if this is indeed happening.
I mean like everything people can vote with their wallet, if TNMO drafts start to be as deserted as death valley then obviously they will quickly change it back.
Entry: 8 people * 5 tix = 40 tix.
Prize: For an 8-man queue, there are 9 total awarded packs (~36 tix).
For constructed, the regular 8-man queues are more profitable (entry: 48, prize: ~52). So the vets and pros won't play these, but maybe that was their intention. On the one hand, they keep vets & pros out, but on the other, they screw the people who don't know any better :/
As compared to limited, this is actually better than the usual rake (entry: 14*8=112, prize: ~48), so maybe these will see some success, particularly if new players do go here and make the queues 'soft'. Although that probably wouldn't go along with their intentions.
*shrug*, I only ever played a couple of these anyway.
As compared to limited, this is actually better than the usual rake (entry: 14*8=112, prize: ~48)
That's not quite true. In a normal Limited tournament you keep what you open (or what you draft). So the "prizes" includes 3 packs to each player (ie ~96 tickets). Making it 112 total entry and 144 total payout.
This thread is not a rumor, and rofl at the whinging here.
TNMO is something WoTC is trying to get more people to enter, because most people don't right now.
All the people I know who use MTGO ignore it, I ignore it, it isn't a major part of MTGO.
Raising the entry a few tix isn't going to end everything, and TNMO is hardly something that was enticing people to install and use MTGO. Now they are at least pushing it for new users.
I play MTGO all the time and didn't even realize TNMO was a thing it's EV is so low. And now I find out about it at the same that they make the EV any lower. Somehow I don't think I'll play it.
IMO, the change they NEED to make is make all formats payout in the most recent set. Pauper and a few other formats only give you core set boosters which are usually worth almost a buck less than block boosters (3.54 AVR vs 2.78 M12 about a month ago).
Before 90-100 people start complaining, I play **** tons of mtgo and have never even heard of this.
That's how little it will affect your experience.
I totally agree. I don't play a ton, but I play at least weekly (usually a few times a week), and I have never heard of this. And, I enjoy MTGO a lot because it allows me to play whenever. So, I agree it will not affect your experience.
MTGO sucks and I can't believe the amount of money people will pay to get virtual cards.
Sort of like the millions who pay sub fees for MMOS, netflix, or for memberships to xbox live, right? Same thing, only MTGO is a better deal because you can decide what you want to pay into it and when-- and once youve bought your cards, can play with them whenever you want as many times as you want without ever dropping another dollar if you dont want to.
Have they modified their very lopsided, nay, one-way user agreement for me putting real money into their company and getting no guarantees other than "what we say goes and you'll like it"?
Went to buy in at the start. But the agreement was so one sided it seemed to be nothing more than a oneside money grab.
I have friends that enjoy the online game. It's clearly successful. But what a terrible bunch of T&C's.
Not for me. This seems all the more reason to not consider it.
Im not saying EULAs arent important to read and understand, but almost any games EULA will appear draconian, as theyre designed to do one thing and one thing only-- to protect the games owner in court. If people could be trusted to do the right things, we wouldnt need them. That said-- look at how long MTGO has been around. I barely drop $5 a month into it and get TONS of play out of it. Some months I pay nothing, and just play the decks I have as I have them and have a blast. Even if MTGO ended tomorrow, I could walk away feeling good about my investment as I couldnt have stretched my dollars worth of entertainment out any better. Another thing to think about-- the only people that have EVER had their digital cards pulled away from them have been people who are being abusive in some way. I mean you REALLY gotta be asking for it. If you (and I mean people in general) dont know where that line is, your parents have failed.
I play MTGO all the time and didn't even realize TNMO was a thing it's EV is so low. And now I find out about it at the same that they make the EV any lower. Somehow I don't think I'll play it.
IMO, the change they NEED to make is make all formats payout in the most recent set. Pauper and a few other formats only give you core set boosters which are usually worth almost a buck less than block boosters (3.54 AVR vs 2.78 M12 about a month ago).
While I agree it sucks that those events pay out differently, they need to feed core set boosters into the Modo economy.
Hopefully this core set being better for limited than usual will help them ease off that model...
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Doesn't sound like a great plan to increase the cost of virtual cards, then take away the virtual cards to me, though I only play MTGO for commander with friends, so... Yeah. Whatever.
On a related note, anyone know where I can give feedback after testing the new client?
Basically speaking:
- New Players Ticket will only be used to join Phantom M13 events, designed for... well.... new players.
- TNMO will always cost 5 (regular) tickets, using Phantom boosters when its format is draft or sealed
Cheers!
TNMO went from being (for Constructed events) a $2 tournament to a $5 one. With +1 to the potential packs you can win. That seems like a crappy deal, seeing as this is the only way to get the FNM promo cards online.
The $2 price point to enter made it pretty attractive as a fun, low-pressure way to play some games and get a sweet promo. The price hike bugs me a fair bit.
Also, WHYYYYY are TNMO drafts/sealed now ONLY Phantom events? That makes no sense to me, I'm not going to waste my time drafting standard sets where I don't keep the cards.
/endrant
the fire - I will become the flame." - Lim-Dûl, the Necromancer
To the people who are making these decisions. STOP ****ING **** UP.
The Merciless Lord of Torture, Permanently Bound To: ">[THE PACK] 11/5/63 - 11/25/09 Goodbye mom, i'll always love you...
Tibalt & His Devils vs. Avacyn's Inquisitors
My EDH decklists
Flipping Delvers since 2011
MY DECKS
Modern: UR Izzet Delver
Pauper: U Delver Faeries | R Red Burn | GInfect
Commander: WB Athreos, God of Passage | UR Keranos Spellslinger | GWU Derevi, Tempo Tactician | BGU Tasigur, the Golden Fang | RW Feather, the Redeemed
TNMO is something WoTC is trying to get more people to enter, because most people don't right now.
All the people I know who use MTGO ignore it, I ignore it, it isn't a major part of MTGO.
Raising the entry a few tix isn't going to end everything, and TNMO is hardly something that was enticing people to install and use MTGO. Now they are at least pushing it for new users.
Twitter
Giving new players the change to play TNMO with the new player ticks is a good idea.
Making the old players pay for this by more than doubling the price was not. I wouldn't be suprised if even less people join the TNMO queues now. Up till now i checked the queues each thursday. But i am not going to pay 5 ticks just to get a single stupid card. Sure you can make your money back if you win, but not everyone can be a winner all the time and i certainly don't win a lot.
Pushing TNMO is a good thing, and pushing it for new players is also a good thing.
The problem for me is that 5 tickets for a "phantom draft" sounds like a terrible deal. Personally I don't understand the appeal of "phantom" events at all, but beside that, I don't understand why this would cost 5 tickets instead of the standard 2 ticket entry fee for most other draft formats.
Probably pretty accurate... sigh.
Wait, changing the way TNMO works and its ticket price actually causes people to NOT want to even JOIN MTGO? Really? TNMO isn't that popular, and is nowhere NEAR crucial/pivotal to the MTGO scene. JUST DON'T PLAY IT. Play normal draft/sealed queues, its really that simple. This changes very little.
I really don't see ANY new potential player thinking, "Hmm... I love Magic, and this Magic online thing sounds pretty fun! I can play all sorts of formats, join different size tournaments at almost any time of day, or just play with my cards! Wow, this is gre-- Wait a second... There's this one tournament that costs me $5 and I don't even get to keep the cards! Forget all those other tourneys, I'm out of here."
A Squirrel Wizard
A G?? (1-3 colors, including green) legendary creature with its main strat based on not attacking
TNM is separate.
That's how little it will affect your experience.
I almost never play MTGO and well, mainly because it is expensive and I prefer the interaction of real people. But sometimes, a draft sounds good at like 8 pm when I am chiling at home.
I realy dont think this will be that big of a deal. Plus, if people REALLY don't like it, Wizards will probably change it. They do listen....sometimes
Cyriss07
I mean like everything people can vote with their wallet, if TNMO drafts start to be as deserted as death valley then obviously they will quickly change it back.
Feel free to bid on my cards here!
Entry: 8 people * 5 tix = 40 tix.
Prize: For an 8-man queue, there are 9 total awarded packs (~36 tix).
For constructed, the regular 8-man queues are more profitable (entry: 48, prize: ~52). So the vets and pros won't play these, but maybe that was their intention. On the one hand, they keep vets & pros out, but on the other, they screw the people who don't know any better :/
As compared to limited, this is actually better than the usual rake (entry: 14*8=112, prize: ~48), so maybe these will see some success, particularly if new players do go here and make the queues 'soft'. Although that probably wouldn't go along with their intentions.
*shrug*, I only ever played a couple of these anyway.
That's not quite true. In a normal Limited tournament you keep what you open (or what you draft). So the "prizes" includes 3 packs to each player (ie ~96 tickets). Making it 112 total entry and 144 total payout.
I play MTGO all the time and didn't even realize TNMO was a thing it's EV is so low. And now I find out about it at the same that they make the EV any lower. Somehow I don't think I'll play it.
IMO, the change they NEED to make is make all formats payout in the most recent set. Pauper and a few other formats only give you core set boosters which are usually worth almost a buck less than block boosters (3.54 AVR vs 2.78 M12 about a month ago).
I totally agree. I don't play a ton, but I play at least weekly (usually a few times a week), and I have never heard of this. And, I enjoy MTGO a lot because it allows me to play whenever. So, I agree it will not affect your experience.
Sort of like the millions who pay sub fees for MMOS, netflix, or for memberships to xbox live, right? Same thing, only MTGO is a better deal because you can decide what you want to pay into it and when-- and once youve bought your cards, can play with them whenever you want as many times as you want without ever dropping another dollar if you dont want to.
Im not saying EULAs arent important to read and understand, but almost any games EULA will appear draconian, as theyre designed to do one thing and one thing only-- to protect the games owner in court. If people could be trusted to do the right things, we wouldnt need them. That said-- look at how long MTGO has been around. I barely drop $5 a month into it and get TONS of play out of it. Some months I pay nothing, and just play the decks I have as I have them and have a blast. Even if MTGO ended tomorrow, I could walk away feeling good about my investment as I couldnt have stretched my dollars worth of entertainment out any better. Another thing to think about-- the only people that have EVER had their digital cards pulled away from them have been people who are being abusive in some way. I mean you REALLY gotta be asking for it. If you (and I mean people in general) dont know where that line is, your parents have failed.
While I agree it sucks that those events pay out differently, they need to feed core set boosters into the Modo economy.
Hopefully this core set being better for limited than usual will help them ease off that model...
Twitter
On a related note, anyone know where I can give feedback after testing the new client?
EDH is a CASUAL format. Get with the program, or GTFO.
I also have been playing MTGO for a while and have never even heard of it.