so I played my list posted above on saturday at a local type 1 tourney for a mox ruby. Overall i played pretty well and made the top 8 on my 3-1-1 record, then lost in the first round of top 8. I was pretty dissapointed as I really feel like I could have easily beaten all but one person in the top 8.
round one - vs nobody
I got lucky and got the bye.
round 2 vs Chris playing long
game one keep a land heavy hand with a DT and a crusible not knowing what chris is playing, I keep. I win the roll play workshop crusible pass, he plays a fetch land and passes. I play a city of brass and the mox pearl I drew and pass. He doesnt break the fetch and draws, then thinks for a long time and desides to do some tutoring and tinkers for collossus. I almost scooped but looked at the DT in my hand and took my turn. I draw mox, play a wastland, DT for balance and win the game with only one card in my hand and crusible waste online.
game 2 he nuts out on me and recalls my board on turn 3 then wins with a huge tendrals.
game 3 I lock the board up and he has no chance after I start blowing up his land. I drop a goyf and go to town.
2-0
round 3 vs Hiro playing BW fish
game 1 is rough but I pull it out after a triskilion and smokestack hit the table.
game 2 I board like an a-hole and then for no reason at all, while holding 2 pyroclasms, I play chalice on 2. He drops mindsensor followed by mindsensor and beats my face for a while. I finally drop a stax and sac my own chalice and play clasm...he plays 2 jotun grunts on the next turn and I have no shot.
game 3 this is a war!!! I start strong and so does he, I play sphere, he plays land lotus crack for B, play bob. I play tangle wire, he passes for a few turns while I set up crusible and finaly get a waste. I waste and he extripates my waste...uh-oh. I eventually drop a stax start getting board control again and he extripates my smokestacks after a major board reset becasue of how many perminants he had. I finally get strip mine, crusible, and bridge on board, he has a exalted angel he cant swing with. He plays a jotun grunt puts 2 seal of cleansings back in his deck then top decks DT and blows up my bridge. I have a 3sphere in hand and a bazaar, and for some reason I play the 3sphere on turn 2 of turns. if I would have kept it I could have got to my trike and stalled for the draw. but I lose.
2-1
round 4 vs guy I dont know
game one I crush him, as all he does is play land, land, land hyppie.
game two: see game one.
3-1
round 5 vs another guy I dont know
draw into top 8
3-1-1
top 8 vs Rey playing fish
I get paired against fish, which I have been destroying in playtesting, except when kataki doesnt hit the table. I tell him before we start that we is going to win on the back of kataki.
game one he runs me over with 2 forces for my lock pieces and a bob on turn one off a mox. sick.
game 2 he has no board all game and I obliterated him...it was really one sided.
game 3 I keep a risky hand with only a city and a lotus with DT, recall, rotate, and sphere. I play lotus DT for crusible, city, recall, he forces. he plays land go, I draw a blank, try to rotate and he forces again. for the next 3 turns neither of us does anything. I finally get some land play a sphere, then another, then a crucible, with only 2 workshops on board and a mox. He plays kataki and runs me over after my board goes away.
Disapointed with the last match but overall the deck played really well. Every time I hit the sideboard I was boarding out win conditions and tinker and just slowing the game down to my pace. This deck is so sick when you can get online early, and I will definately keep playing it.
From TMD
Round One: Bill Copes playing Stax
Bill seems like a nice guy till I see that he's playing Stax and realize (by way of a concrete Magic formula I learned from my 4th grade math teacher) he has no soul.
Fish has never really been that hard for me.
Between Dupes, Trike, and Titan, I always drop a dude on them and smash face.
After board I get more dupes,red blasts, darkblast, and Razormane Masicore.
They can't deal with big dudes.
Agreed, thats why I was so disappointed with the loss in the top 8. fish is usually really easy to beat. waste/strip + crucible and even one sphere is usually game over. I just couldnt get there.
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From TMD
Round One: Bill Copes playing Stax
Bill seems like a nice guy till I see that he's playing Stax and realize (by way of a concrete Magic formula I learned from my 4th grade math teacher) he has no soul.
that card is only good with channel and only in doomsday builds. No place in stax
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Quote from TJ-Whoopy »
From TMD
Round One: Bill Copes playing Stax
Bill seems like a nice guy till I see that he's playing Stax and realize (by way of a concrete Magic formula I learned from my 4th grade math teacher) he has no soul.
dude i love the mirror, i just played a game against long. i dropped it out the guy went off next turn (forgetting about the mirror). i laphed for 10 min straight. he gave and walked away with his head hung low. however i think its going to stay sb for me.
I still feel like this is the best deck in the format. Is anybody out there still playing 5 color Stax? My list is below, and hasnt changed for months. Its just so strong against a really large amount of decks. The only bad matchups I can think of are Ichorid, goblins, and oath...all preboard. After game one though I dont feel like there are many decks that can match the raw power of this deck, or the strangling lock down it produces.
From TMD
Round One: Bill Copes playing Stax
Bill seems like a nice guy till I see that he's playing Stax and realize (by way of a concrete Magic formula I learned from my 4th grade math teacher) he has no soul.
I run 3 crucibles in my current build and cant imagine cutting any of them, how is just having one in your build treating you? Also how have you liked the Thorns so far?
I have been wanting to put Null Rod in my list for a while now, but it scares me, how dependent I am on moxen in the early game.
From TMD
Round One: Bill Copes playing Stax
Bill seems like a nice guy till I see that he's playing Stax and realize (by way of a concrete Magic formula I learned from my 4th grade math teacher) he has no soul.
I have to say, it's a rather powerful build that so far hasn't really let me down in any true way but it does struggle against some aggro decks (Like Goblins), though that is mostly solved via something like Ensnaring Bridge in the board.
I love the Bazaar engine, it's a beast. Once you get a few lock pieces down you can start Baazaring until you get that Crucible or Welder you're looking for and then it's just pure card advantage.
The Null Rod I'm always skeptical about, as it hurts you quite a bit too, but it easily turns into a powerful card if you're going second or playing against one of the thousand Painter/Vault decks out there. Though I'd say that I am thinking of swapping one Null Rod out for a Karn, as he not only eats moxens but wins games and keeps you from losing to an odd Tarmogoyf or something of the like.
If you do the taiga plan, goyf is an excellent sideboard card. it is not susceptible to artifact hate, and it turns you into workshop aggro. this also goes really well with thorn (side?) with tangle wires. I would recommend cutting one crucible, considering multiples are pretty useless. perhaps a fastbond? Since you have so much extra land because of bazaars, laying 2-3 a turn would be sick, especially once you find crucible.
choke sb is also an interesting idea, landing that against a blue deck is awesome. Perhaps with all of the green cards a couple fetches would be needed. to get the taigas. maybe one in place of a barbarian ring and one in the side.
this seems to be the perfect deck to try to experiment with life from the loam in a welder deck. bazaar is awesome with life from the loam, and life from the loam is awesome with welder. just something to think about.
Here is my deck list from Sunday, it was supposed to be a sanctioned tourney for a Mox Sapphire, but it turned into a cash game. I ended up taking Second with this list. I lost to Steelcity Vault 2-0.
Essentially, I ran a mana base similar to 5c Stax, but I didn't run Crop Rotation, Demonic Tutor or Any other tutor for that manner. I needed multiple colors for the SB to deal with the 3 oath decks that were going to be there.
The biggest problem with 5c stax is pretty much that the mana base is weak. At first I used only 6 colored lands, but I got pretty annoyed when I had ancestral recall, crop rotation, or a vampiric tutor that I couldn't cast.
Barbarian Ring doesn't produce UBGW mana, so it doesn't seem to be a land which fits well into 5c stax, when you want mana of any color. Barbarian Ring is primarily good for creature removal, in which case Darkblast seems to do the job pretty well and darkblast/dredge has lots of synergies with other cards in the deck like Goblin Welder, Crucible of Worlds, Ancient Grudge, and Bazaar of Baghdad.
Another thing is I find Imperial Seal can be pretty nice in the deck (if you have enough rainbow lands) because of how it can get Trinisphere and Strip Mine. On that note this recent tournament deck looks pretty synergetic and well designed:
I ran 4 city 3 gemstone 1 tol with jewelry in my last build and just got too confident in my lock in top 8 against another skilled player.
Cap is def an MVP but its a board card for me still.
Beating Tez with Vault key is kinda funny but it will have to leave from my build too for room for Jug-O-Sphere also with more hate comming out for it. It is interesting tho because it still does just win with the amount of search alot of us run in 5C it does work well.
Ill have to get my list up here for you then when i get some time.
The real question right now is what to cut for the Jug-O-Spheres
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~Rome aka Ceaser Founder of Team Empire~
:xmana::symw::symu::symb::symr::symg:Empire Stax:symw::symu::symb::symr::symg::xmana:
I don't think Lodestone Golem has a home in 5c Stax. I think it would work better in MUD aggro.
I played a few matches against Rome's 5cStacks with Golems (I know him in real life although he doesn't know me on here) and I have to say I think that they are great in 5c Stacks, they were house. They may possibly be better in MUD, but I think they deserve a slot in Stacks as well.
What are you cutting for golems? The reason I believed that it doesn't fit is based simply on the fact that there are only 3-5 actual threat creatures (2 Trisk, 2 Karn, 1 Sundering Titan). Adding Golems would mean that I'd have to cut what?
What are you cutting for golems? The reason I believed that it doesn't fit is based simply on the fact that there are only 3-5 actual threat creatures (2 Trisk, 2 Karn, 1 Sundering Titan). Adding Golems would mean that I'd have to cut what?
Valid Question you're asking good MOD...I wonder how long it takes for that one to get answered with a viable case. ..
I feel the same way you do bud..the golem is ment for MUDD and that's how I feel on the topic as well. 5-C has its answers and the Golem isn't one of them with regards to this deck keeping its already stellar mold.
S.M.
To be fair, my 5c list cheats. I play a 5c Workshop Aggro, but I still don't use Juggs. Also, my 5c is more for Post Board. I don't like having to try and fix mana mid-way through a game.
Juggernaut/Lodestone Golem is a good beater, but I think we all underesitmate the drawback to the card. It's non-artifact.
If we went through a list of all the major cards that we are terrified of, the top of the list is: Time Vault
The last card would probably be Painter Servant or Grindstone.
Now I am not saying that the other decks are not competitors, nor am I saying that they don't have valid threats, but with the three listed above, most will kill us on the turn they are played. 2/3 listed are unaffected by Lodestone Golem.
Well i finalized my deck for the up and commin event. I will share now that I have tested with some of the cards in question. I know some people on here have been waiting to see this but here goes fire away with some questions.
round one - vs nobody
I got lucky and got the bye.
round 2 vs Chris playing long
game one keep a land heavy hand with a DT and a crusible not knowing what chris is playing, I keep. I win the roll play workshop crusible pass, he plays a fetch land and passes. I play a city of brass and the mox pearl I drew and pass. He doesnt break the fetch and draws, then thinks for a long time and desides to do some tutoring and tinkers for collossus. I almost scooped but looked at the DT in my hand and took my turn. I draw mox, play a wastland, DT for balance and win the game with only one card in my hand and crusible waste online.
game 2 he nuts out on me and recalls my board on turn 3 then wins with a huge tendrals.
game 3 I lock the board up and he has no chance after I start blowing up his land. I drop a goyf and go to town.
2-0
round 3 vs Hiro playing BW fish
game 1 is rough but I pull it out after a triskilion and smokestack hit the table.
game 2 I board like an a-hole and then for no reason at all, while holding 2 pyroclasms, I play chalice on 2. He drops mindsensor followed by mindsensor and beats my face for a while. I finally drop a stax and sac my own chalice and play clasm...he plays 2 jotun grunts on the next turn and I have no shot.
game 3 this is a war!!! I start strong and so does he, I play sphere, he plays land lotus crack for B, play bob. I play tangle wire, he passes for a few turns while I set up crusible and finaly get a waste. I waste and he extripates my waste...uh-oh. I eventually drop a stax start getting board control again and he extripates my smokestacks after a major board reset becasue of how many perminants he had. I finally get strip mine, crusible, and bridge on board, he has a exalted angel he cant swing with. He plays a jotun grunt puts 2 seal of cleansings back in his deck then top decks DT and blows up my bridge. I have a 3sphere in hand and a bazaar, and for some reason I play the 3sphere on turn 2 of turns. if I would have kept it I could have got to my trike and stalled for the draw. but I lose.
2-1
round 4 vs guy I dont know
game one I crush him, as all he does is play land, land, land hyppie.
game two: see game one.
3-1
round 5 vs another guy I dont know
draw into top 8
3-1-1
top 8 vs Rey playing fish
I get paired against fish, which I have been destroying in playtesting, except when kataki doesnt hit the table. I tell him before we start that we is going to win on the back of kataki.
game one he runs me over with 2 forces for my lock pieces and a bob on turn one off a mox. sick.
game 2 he has no board all game and I obliterated him...it was really one sided.
game 3 I keep a risky hand with only a city and a lotus with DT, recall, rotate, and sphere. I play lotus DT for crusible, city, recall, he forces. he plays land go, I draw a blank, try to rotate and he forces again. for the next 3 turns neither of us does anything. I finally get some land play a sphere, then another, then a crucible, with only 2 workshops on board and a mox. He plays kataki and runs me over after my board goes away.
Disapointed with the last match but overall the deck played really well. Every time I hit the sideboard I was boarding out win conditions and tinker and just slowing the game down to my pace. This deck is so sick when you can get online early, and I will definately keep playing it.
Between Dupes, Trike, and Titan, I always drop a dude on them and smash face.
After board I get more dupes,red blasts, darkblast, and Razormane Masicore.
They can't deal with big dudes.
Agreed, thats why I was so disappointed with the loss in the top 8. fish is usually really easy to beat. waste/strip + crucible and even one sphere is usually game over. I just couldnt get there.
4 workshop
4 city of brass
3 gemstone mine
4 wasteland
1 stripmine
1 bazaar
artifact mana 10
5 moxen
1 black lotus
1 sol ring
1 mana crypt
1 mana vault
1 coalition relic
4 sphere of resistance
4 chalice of the void
3 smokestacks
4 tangle wire
1 trinisphere
3 crucible of worlds
Win conditions 8
4 goblin welder
2 triskilion
1 sundering titan
1 karn
busted stuff 6
1 demonic tutor
1 vampiric tutor
1 recall
1 crop rotation
1 balance
1 tinker
4 Tarmagoyf
3 rough//tumble (nobody mages this card)
3 tormods crypt
2 ancient grudge
2 ensnaring bridge
1 platinum angel
I am trying to convince myself though, to transform it into a 5c Stax instead
I have been wanting to put Null Rod in my list for a while now, but it scares me, how dependent I am on moxen in the early game.
4 Bazaar of Baghdad
4 Mishra's Workshop
4 Barbarian Ring
4 Taiga
3 Wasteland
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Strip Mine
Mana Artifacts:
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Emerald
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Black Lotus
4 Goblin Welder
1 Duplicant
1 Platinum Angel
Artifacts:
4 Sphere of Resistance
4 Crucible of Worlds
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Smokestack
4 Tangle Wire
3 Null Rod
1 Trinisphere
I have to say, it's a rather powerful build that so far hasn't really let me down in any true way but it does struggle against some aggro decks (Like Goblins), though that is mostly solved via something like Ensnaring Bridge in the board.
I love the Bazaar engine, it's a beast. Once you get a few lock pieces down you can start Baazaring until you get that Crucible or Welder you're looking for and then it's just pure card advantage.
The Null Rod I'm always skeptical about, as it hurts you quite a bit too, but it easily turns into a powerful card if you're going second or playing against one of the thousand Painter/Vault decks out there. Though I'd say that I am thinking of swapping one Null Rod out for a Karn, as he not only eats moxens but wins games and keeps you from losing to an odd Tarmogoyf or something of the like.
choke sb is also an interesting idea, landing that against a blue deck is awesome. Perhaps with all of the green cards a couple fetches would be needed. to get the taigas. maybe one in place of a barbarian ring and one in the side.
this seems to be the perfect deck to try to experiment with life from the loam in a welder deck. bazaar is awesome with life from the loam, and life from the loam is awesome with welder. just something to think about.
~ UGBW Ba$eruptioN UGBW ~
+++++++++++++++++
:o-)(EDH)(-:o
{{TeNeB, Th3 A-HoLe}}
=MoMiR VigSauc3=
2nd Place - Brian Grewe
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring
1 Darkblast
4 Smokestack
3 Tangle Wire
4 Sphere of Resistance
3 Chalice of the Void
2 Crucible of Worlds
1 Trinisphere
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Tinker
1 Jester's Cap
1 Platinum Angel
2 Razormane Masticore
1 Sundering Titan
3 Goblin Welder
3 Triskelion
4 Gemstone Mine
4 City of Brass
2 Ancient Tomb
1 Strip Mine
4 Wasteland
4 Mishra's Workshop
1 Tolarian Academy
1 In The Eye Of Chaos
1 Balance
1 Wispmare
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Krosan Grip
3 Powder Keg
2 Pyroclasm
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Relic of Progenitus
2 Pithing Needle
1 Jester's Cap
Essentially, I ran a mana base similar to 5c Stax, but I didn't run Crop Rotation, Demonic Tutor or Any other tutor for that manner. I needed multiple colors for the SB to deal with the 3 oath decks that were going to be there.
MVP for the tournament was: Jester's Cap
A close second was: Balance
I won the first round of Top 4 on the back of a Krosan Grip playing against BuG (Which was my only loss in Swiss).
I think if I were to build the deck again, I would change:
MD:
-1 Darkblast
SB:
-1 In the eye of chaos
-2 Pyroclasm
And Add:
MD:
+1 Chalice of the Void
SB:
+1 Krosan Grip
+1 Powder Keg
+1 Tormod's Crypt
In the end I can't really complain though. I won 100.00 and had a good time playing against players that I haven't seen or haven't met.
Meta here is full of tez, and this build destroys it pretty well.
3 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
1 Barbarian Ring
4 Gemstone Mine
2 City of Brass
1 Bazaar of Baghdad
4 Mishra's Workshop
1 Tolarian Academy
Mana:
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Emerald
1 Black Lotus
1 Mana Crypt
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mana Vault
1 Sol Ring
Artifacts:
2 Chalice of the Void
4 Sphere of Resistance
1 Powder Keg
4 Tangle Wire
1 Trinisphere
2 Crucible of Worlds
2 Uba Mask
1 Smokestack
4 Goblin Welder
1 Karn, Silver Golem
1 Razormane Masticore
1 Triskelion
1 Sundering Titan
Instants:
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Crop Rotation
1 Ancestral Recall
Sorceries:
1 Balance
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Tinker
1 Jester's Cap
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Diabolic Edict
2 Ancient Grudge
3 Red Elemental Blast
1 Darkblast
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Ensnaring Bridge
I would probably change:
-1 Barbarian Ring
-1 Something?
+2 City of Brass
The biggest problem with 5c stax is pretty much that the mana base is weak. At first I used only 6 colored lands, but I got pretty annoyed when I had ancestral recall, crop rotation, or a vampiric tutor that I couldn't cast.
Barbarian Ring doesn't produce UBGW mana, so it doesn't seem to be a land which fits well into 5c stax, when you want mana of any color. Barbarian Ring is primarily good for creature removal, in which case Darkblast seems to do the job pretty well and darkblast/dredge has lots of synergies with other cards in the deck like Goblin Welder, Crucible of Worlds, Ancient Grudge, and Bazaar of Baghdad.
Another thing is I find Imperial Seal can be pretty nice in the deck (if you have enough rainbow lands) because of how it can get Trinisphere and Strip Mine. On that note this recent tournament deck looks pretty synergetic and well designed:
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=29553
Although I really don't understand the point of running Undiscovered Paradise??
Cap is def an MVP but its a board card for me still.
Beating Tez with Vault key is kinda funny but it will have to leave from my build too for room for Jug-O-Sphere also with more hate comming out for it. It is interesting tho because it still does just win with the amount of search alot of us run in 5C it does work well.
Ill have to get my list up here for you then when i get some time.
The real question right now is what to cut for the Jug-O-Spheres
:xmana::symw::symu::symb::symr::symg:Empire Stax:symw::symu::symb::symr::symg::xmana:
I played a few matches against Rome's 5cStacks with Golems (I know him in real life although he doesn't know me on here) and I have to say I think that they are great in 5c Stacks, they were house. They may possibly be better in MUD, but I think they deserve a slot in Stacks as well.
Valid Question you're asking good MOD...I wonder how long it takes for that one to get answered with a viable case. ..
I feel the same way you do bud..the golem is ment for MUDD and that's how I feel on the topic as well. 5-C has its answers and the Golem isn't one of them with regards to this deck keeping its already stellar mold.
S.M.
Juggernaut/Lodestone Golem is a good beater, but I think we all underesitmate the drawback to the card. It's non-artifact.
If we went through a list of all the major cards that we are terrified of, the top of the list is: Time Vault
The next card would be Oath of Druids
The last card would probably be Painter Servant or Grindstone.
Now I am not saying that the other decks are not competitors, nor am I saying that they don't have valid threats, but with the three listed above, most will kill us on the turn they are played. 2/3 listed are unaffected by Lodestone Golem.
1 Barbarian Ring
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Strip Mine
1 Bazaar of Baghdad
3 Gemstone Mine
4 Wasteland
4 Mishra's Workshop
4 City of Brass
Creature
1 Gorilla Shaman
1 Sundering Titan
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Goblin Welder
Instant
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Dark Blast
2 Crop Rotation
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Tinker
1 Balance
Artifact
1 Jester's Cap
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Trinisphere
1 Sol Ring
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
2 Crucible of Worlds
3 Tangle Wire
3 Smokestack
4 Sphere of Resistance
4 leyline of the Void
2 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Powder Keg
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Jester's Cap
2 Ray of Revelation
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Helm of Obedience
:xmana::symw::symu::symb::symr::symg:Empire Stax:symw::symu::symb::symr::symg::xmana: