MTG Salvation

This post will contain a reasonable aproximiation for a decklist of the Staxless Stax archetype.

This thread is for the discussion and analysis of the above archetype.

In the eye of chaos and memory jar seem less than stellar here. When would you want to use jar? Your not going to be able to cast all the cards and wouldn't it help more than hurt against decks like Ichorid, flash, and gat? I may be way off here but I just dont see how either card helps the deck more than other cards would.

Wouldn't tangle wire be better here? Also this list is 61 cards.

Hey this is my list.
I posted it on TMD.

The In the Eye was a metagame call,there was so many gush decks around that i decided to run it. It worked. And the Jar is amazing. It helps turn hand with 0-1 card into the nuts. Also, dropping it early will allow me to lock the board much faster.


If you have any questions, please feel free to ask.

Also, this isn't Staxless Stax. Its Staxx 2K8.

why dont use tangle wire?

Quote from Radiant

why dont use tangle wire?

That is a good question. I have used Wires before, for a long time.
But in this metagame, I would much rather have Chalice.
With Gushes running rampant, Wire doesn't do much. They tap their lands, and then cast gush to return them and replay them.
Also, Chalice @1 cripples most of those decks right now. I know it hurts this deck as well, but it works.

@YuanTi: In testing, i have found out that Thorn clogs up my hand and it really makes me want a Shop all the time.
But your testing may prove different than mine.

EDIT: So with the recently added restrictions, the format as we know it has been hugely changed. Depending on which decks emerge, I can see a new rise of drains/fish varients. Because of this change, I can see the addition of Tangle Wires being good again. The format will seem to slow down, long enough to make the addition of Wires appropriate. Chalice can hit the sideboards again.

What are your thoughts on the format change and the changes that could be done to stax?

I don't think that card will see play for a number of reasons. Firstly, the biggest creatures are usually just tinkered or weldered in, not played. Secondly, the card let's them have one more creature than you. If you're both at 0, they can cast one. Vintage decks usually only need one creature to get something going. It would be useful against some fish builds, and that's about it.

And Stax runs welders. It loves it's welders.

Quote from Deathjester18952

it was mostly for the land denial that i was thinking about.... i was thinking that limiting the number of permentants they can have in play, would significantly increase the effectiveness of the smokestacks... just a thought.

My bad. I misread the card a little. Yea, I'm not sure either way with this card now. Interesting effect though.

Ward of Bones won't see any play.

Take, for example, an "ideal" turn with bones, which would be turn one shop, lotus, ward. Your opponent still can play 2 lands and and 2 arifact mana sources. This means that every deck has access to basically all of their cards; that is, control decks still have access to drain mana and whatever draw engine they use, other shop decks can just match you, and if you play to make the most of bones you'll lose to their better artifact hate, ichorid will just win, etc. Smokestacks itself should just win, and it its even cut often from stax, being one of the weaker lock elements usually. I don't see why this six mana artifact should be considered over the various far more effective elements.

Just my two cents.

Hmm, seems like stax has really fallen out of the spotlight. However, I plan on bringing a more traditional lock heavy copy of stax to my local vintage tourney. However, I have a few questions I would like to ask stax experts.

1. How do you deal with goblin? Not only do they have a bunch of permanets, which will negate tanglewire and smokestack, they also have the a great SB against stax.

2. On the subject of SB, what do you guys do against shattering spree? It seems like chalice is quite useless, and there's not much that can be done when your artifacts are blown away.

3. What do you do with dredge? I find this to be as difficult a MU as goblin, if not more. Most of your lock pieces are useless against them.

Quote from Alphataru

Hmm, seems like stax has really fallen out of the spotlight. However, I plan on bringing a more traditional lock heavy copy of stax to my local vintage tourney. However, I have a few questions I would like to ask stax experts.

1. How do you deal with goblin? Not only do they have a bunch of permanets, which will negate tanglewire and smokestack, they also have the a great SB against stax.

2. On the subject of SB, what do you guys do against shattering spree? It seems like chalice is quite useless, and there's not much that can be done when your artifacts are blown away.

3. What do you do with dredge? I find this to be as difficult a MU as goblin, if not more. Most of your lock pieces are useless against them.

Personally I like trikes and ensnaring bridges against both goblins and dredge. Its not difficult to puke your hand in the first 2 turns, and after that you can just lock them out of the game with welder/smokestax shenanigans.

Against shattering spree you cry...simple as that. You just have to hope that you have already set up a good lock and that your welder can keep you in the game by bringing back key artifacts.

Quote from huey366

Personally I like trikes and ensnaring bridges against both goblins and dredge. Its not difficult to puke your hand in the first 2 turns, and after that you can just lock them out of the game with welder/smokestax shenanigans.

Against shattering spree you cry...simple as that. You just have to hope that you have already set up a good lock and that your welder can keep you in the game by bringing back key artifacts.

Ok so honestly, I dont play Bridges in my board. Though they are very good. I currently run 2 Dupes and 1 Darkblast I bring in against Goblins.

I am thinking about adding a Razormane Masticore to my board too, as it is insane against decks like goblins. Another card that I have found to be INSANE against almost all aggro type of decks and even combo decks with ETW is Silent Arbiter.

The card is very good against all aggro decks.

Quote from magicplaya10

Ok so honestly, I dont play Bridges in my board. Though they are very good. I currently run 2 Dupes and 1 Darkblast I bring in against Goblins.

I am thinking about adding a Razormane Masticore to my board too, as it is insane against decks like goblins. Another card that I have found to be INSANE against almost all aggro type of decks and even combo decks with ETW is Silent Arbiter.

The card is very good against all aggro decks.

Isnt crawlspace just better since it cant get swords? I have also been boarding in Goyfs against agro decks and fish and that has been working out really well. It also has not been bad against combo.

I'm not so sure Mindlock Orb will see any play in 5 color stax. The fact that it is 3U may make it too situational to play. Its really hard to drop on turn one without city, mox x3 or city, mox, mana vault/crypt. Plus it turns off your tutors. we will have to wait and see.

I will be taking this list to a tournament this saturday here in So Cal. I have worked on the board with some of the other players in the area but I am still shaky on what i "should" be playing. Any suggestions are welcome and appreciated.

Quote from huey366

I will be taking this list to a tournament this saturday here in So Cal. I have worked on the board with some of the other players in the area but I am still shaky on what i "should" be playing. Any suggestions are welcome and appreciated.

White Shadow's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
land 17 4 workshop 4 city of brass 3 gemstone mine 4 wasteland 1 stripmine 1 bazaar artifact mana 10 5 moxen 1 black lotus 1 sol ring 1 mana crypt 1 mana vault 1 coalition relic	lock peices 19 4 sphere of resistance 4 chalice of the void 3 smokestacks 4 tangle wire 1 trinisphere 3 crucible of worlds Win conditions 8 4 goblin welder 2 triskilion 1 sundering titan 1 karn busted stuff 6 1 demonic tutor 1 vampiric tutor 1 recall 1 crop rotation 1 balance 1 tinker	Board 15 4 Tarmagoyf 3 pyroclasm 3 tormods crypt 2 duplicant 2 ensnaring bridge 1 platinum angel

I would think that you need some kind of hate for the mirror. Rack and Ruin, or ancient grudge.

actually I was leaning toward seal of cleansing over the duplicants but I am still not sure. Ancient grudge seems really good and will probably make it in the board before saturday.

See, against aggro, I would rather not Board in Goyfs and try to race them or have Clasms, because, more than likely, they will have goyfs as well or they can survive a clasm.

I just bring in 2 Duplicants and 1 Razormane Masticore and just remove their dudes and swing.

My Removal suite maindeck:
1 Duplicant
1 B-Ring
1 Balance
1 Trike

After Board, it becomes:
3 Duplicant
1 Razormane Masticore
1 B-Ring
1 Balance
1 Trike

So I have the removal.

Also, in certain situations(Against Dreadnought and whatnot) Grudges can become removal as well.

It would either have to be creatures or tangle wires.

The Way I see it, you can keep Wires in to fight Drain decks, or you can run the thorn to fight through combo.